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1Back to top Go down   K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Empty K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Fri Nov 11, 2022 5:49 am

Clintinz

Clintinz
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In my 1986 k100rs build I’ve stripped out the old lunch box and put in a m.unit blue. Bought some nice mini Daytona gauges with the mini indicator lights piece (oil, neutral, high beam, left and right indicator). My problem is that the m.unit doesn’t have a neutral or oil pressure in or out. The break out box does though. My question is, has anyone else managed to wire the oil pressure or neutral wires directly to the an notification light? Does it need to go through the m.unit or breakout box? No idea how it even gets into the breakout box. Any help would be much appreciated. (Still learning the ropes on automotive wiring)

    

2Back to top Go down   K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Empty Re: K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Fri Nov 11, 2022 8:29 am

robmack

robmack
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There is an oil pressure switch on the oil-water pump that will activate to ground when oil pressure is too low. You can take that signal directly to your gauge and bypass the m.unit.

Neutral has to be calculated on the K100 because the TGPI is a BCD switch.  There is no direct neutral indication.  Neutral is easily simulated with three relays (four if you want start in neutral function as well).

https://www.k100-forum.com/t12857-cluster-removal-led-neutral-light


__________________________________________________
Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

3Back to top Go down   K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Empty Re: K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Fri Nov 11, 2022 3:52 pm

Clintinz

Clintinz
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Thanks robmack. I was hoping to hear from you as I’ve seen your expertise on other posts. I read through your post and admire your work but don’t have space for the board and only really need a nuetral light. The rest of the gears i should know where they are. Given that I could do one light (oil) and the m.unit must handle neutral (through aux 1 or 2?) could that be configured? Or given that I have the BEP 3.0 lying around now I presume it could do the same as your box? Though I wish I found your box earlier. Is way cheaper.

    

4Back to top Go down   K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Empty Re: K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Fri Nov 11, 2022 7:03 pm

duck

duck
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robmack wrote:There is an oil pressure switch on the oil-water pump that will activate to ground when oil pressure is too low. You can take that signal directly to your gauge and bypass the m.unit.

Neutral has to be calculated on the K100 because the TGPI is a BCD switch.  There is no direct neutral indication.  Neutral is easily simulated with three relays (four if you want start in neutral function as well).

https://www.k100-forum.com/t12857-cluster-removal-led-neutral-light

I've done start in neutral with three relays and a diode. This outputs + to the N lamp. If you wanted to output -  to the N lamp then you could us a DPDT relay at the bottom and skip the diode.

K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Gpiemu1

More at this link:
http://www.kbikeparts.com/classickbikes.com/ckb.tech/0.ckb.tech.files/gpiemulate/gpiemulate.htm


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

5Back to top Go down   K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Empty Re: K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Fri Nov 11, 2022 7:12 pm

robmack

robmack
Life time member
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Duck,  True that circuit works if you have an active HIGH neutral light.  If you have an active LOW neutral light, you need the fourth relay for start enable.


__________________________________________________
Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

6Back to top Go down   K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Empty Re: K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Fri Nov 11, 2022 7:21 pm

duck

duck
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robmack wrote:Duck,  True that circuit works if you have an active HIGH neutral light.  If you have an active LOW neutral light, you need the fourth relay for start enable.

A DPDT or DPST relay as the last relay would work. DP relays connect two independent circuits.
 You could wire it so that one circuit sends + to start button and the other circuit sends - to the the N lamp when the relay is energized.



Last edited by duck on Fri Nov 11, 2022 7:39 pm; edited 1 time in total


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

7Back to top Go down   K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Empty Re: K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Fri Nov 11, 2022 7:38 pm

robmack

robmack
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Clintinz wrote:Thanks robmack. I was hoping to hear from you as I’ve seen your expertise on other posts. I read through your post and  admire your work but don’t have space for the board and only really need a nuetral light. The rest of the gears i should know where they are. Given that I could do one light (oil) and the m.unit must handle neutral (through aux 1 or 2?) could that be configured? Or given that I have the BEP 3.0 lying around now I presume it could do the same as your box? Though I wish I found your box earlier. Is way cheaper.
@Clintinz:  I've read through the m.unit documentation and I see the one reference to oil pressure and neutral being fed by AUX1.  I read this as AUX1 is providing a source of power for the indicator and that is all it is doing.  If you examine the schematic on page 28 of the manual, it shows AUX1 connected to two lights (the circle with an "X") and two switches to ground.  In the text is says "oil pressure via oil pressure switch and neutral via idle gear switch".  The K100 has an oil pressure switch but not an idle gear switch, at least not a direct idle gear switch.  It has the TGPI which provides a coded signal based on the gear selected.  When neutral is selected, all three outputs of the TGPI are grounded.  The relay circuit both Duck and I are referencing detects this condition and will output an idle gear signal.  Yes, you can use the BEP 3.0 to get both your oil pressure signal and neutral signal. Think of the m.unit as a box that simplifies the bike's wiring harness and think of the BEP as a box that restores functionality lost when you removed the OEM gauge cluster if that helps you to sort in your mind what each box is doing.


__________________________________________________
Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

8Back to top Go down   K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Empty Re: K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Fri Nov 11, 2022 9:59 pm

Clintinz

Clintinz
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@robmack thanks for your patience and explanation. Electrical is not my strong suite so I appreciated your help. I’ll endeavour to move a few things around in the small space I have left and get the BEP 3 in there somewhere. Argh so close yet so far.

    

9Back to top Go down   K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Empty Re: K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:13 pm

Clintinz

Clintinz
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Hi all, thanks for your help so far. I have managed to get the BEP 3 shoe horned into the space and have wired it up to the outputs on the gauges and the indicator panel. What I seem to be struggling with is the SWP power not lighting up the gauges when I turn the key. The Oem harness clip part in the BEP manual (pg. 6) is in German and I’ve tried a google translate with mixed results. I’ve also found some other members posts and pictures and I think the ignition input is the green/black #6 in the oem loom clips. If I wire the #1 to the battery then I should have power through the BEP.
My question is. Will wiring in #6 to ignition on the m.unit (or Aux 1/2) be enough to trigger the power to the garages. Or is that only when there is a spark to the engine?
Thanks in advance.

    

10Back to top Go down   K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Empty Re: K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:34 pm

robmack

robmack
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You also need BAT (continuous 12V) hooked up to the gauge and to the BEP.  As well as GND (ground) and SWP (switched 12V).

I am assuming that the 24 PIN OEM gauge connector is still intact and hooked to the BEP. Is this a true assumption?


__________________________________________________
Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

11Back to top Go down   K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Empty Re: K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:59 pm

Clintinz

Clintinz
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robmack wrote:You also need BAT (continuous 12V) hooked up to the gauge and to the BEP.  As well as GND (ground) and SWP (switched 12V).
Thanks Rob
Wouldn’t having continuous BAT for the gauges mean they are drawing power all the time? I don’t have a clock so presumed that wasn’t necessary. BEP is grounded from 2 of the 3 oem grounds. BEP was connected directly to battery. 

“I am assuming that the 24 PIN OEM gauge connector is still intact and hooked to the BEP. Is this a true assumption?”

The 24 pin oem gauge clips are in the BEP…ut I have  clipped all the wires off as I had originally thought I could do it all through the m.unit. (As it turns out. M.unit can’t do oil or neutral) but all other ignition and indicators etc is running through the m.unit. 

So if I get that #6 wire Connected to the m.unit (somewhere?) and the #1 connected to the battery it should be enough to light her up?

    

12Back to top Go down   K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Empty Re: K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:03 am

Laitch

Laitch
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Clintinz wrote:The Oem harness clip part in the BEP manual (pg. 6) is in German and I’ve tried a google translate with mixed results.
Here's a BEP3 manual in English and there are other BEP manufacturer specific manuals in the DOWNLOAD area of the BEP3 page at cafe4racer.eu


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 81,000 miles
K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Usa-lo10
    

13Back to top Go down   K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Empty Re: K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:06 am

Clintinz

Clintinz
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Thanks Laitch but the harness description is in German. All the wire colours and what they do. Or am I missing something?

    

14Back to top Go down   K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Empty Re: K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:14 am

robmack

robmack
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Clintinz wrote:Wouldn’t having continuous BAT for the gauges mean they are drawing power all the time?
Yes but its microamps.  It's needed by the gauge to make it work.

Clintinz wrote:The 24 pin oem gauge clips are in the BEP…ut I have  clipped all the wires off as I had originally thought I could do it all through the m.unit. (As it turns out. M.unit can’t do oil or neutral) but all other ignition and indicators etc is running through the m.unit. 
If. you've clipped wires off the OEM 24 pin connector, then the BEP won't work correctly and neither will the gauge.

Clintinz wrote:So if I get that #6 wire Connected to the m.unit (somewhere?) and the #1 connected to the battery it should be enough to light her up?
I don't see how you're going to supply the BEP with its required inputs seeing that the OEM 24-pin connector has wires removed.   At least getting switched power and continuous power and ground connected to the gauge will activate the gauge.


__________________________________________________
Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

15Back to top Go down   K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Empty Re: K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:16 am

robmack

robmack
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Clintinz wrote:Thanks Laitch but the harness description is in German. All the wire colours and what they do.  Or am I missing something?
No you're not missing something. The harness description is in German. You should be able to figure out the function by comparing the colours of the wires to an English schematic of the K-bike.


__________________________________________________
Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

16Back to top Go down   K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Empty Re: K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:23 am

Clintinz

Clintinz
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Robmack wrote:I don't see how you're going to supply the BEP with its required inputs seeing that the OEM 24-pin connector has wires removed.   At least getting switched power and continuous power and ground connected to the gauge will activate the gauge.
 
Bugger. Just so it’s clear. I have reconnected all the OEM wires to the clipped wires (a lot shorted too) that then line up with the outputs I want for the gauges. Ie. all 3 gear selector wires (#2,3,4) are back into the BEP. Speed sensor (#22) and rev counter. (#16), oil pressure (#11) + ground and power. 

Shouldn’t that be enough for the BEP to supply that info to the gauges?

    

17Back to top Go down   K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Empty Re: K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:36 am

robmack

robmack
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At a minimum, you'll need the following wires intact on the OEM 24-pin gauge connector:

22 speed sensor yellow
23 speed sensor brown
13 ground brown
18 ground brown
4 TGPI yellow / Blue
3 TGPI yellow / black
2 TGPI  yellow / white
1 continuous power red / white
11 oil pressure brown / green
16 RPM input Black/Blue
6 switched power green/black

Understand that the BEP gets its inputs from the OEM 24-pin connector and provides outputs on the terminal block.  Any/all outputs are meant to go directly to wires on a gauge.  So, power from pins 1, 6 and 13/18 feed power both to the gauge (through the corresponding outputs BAT, SWP and GND). as well as the BEP.  So the wires must be presentl


__________________________________________________
Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

18Back to top Go down   K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Empty Re: K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Wed Nov 16, 2022 4:15 am

Clintinz

Clintinz
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Thanks again Rob. Yes I got the jist of the “what goes in must come out” 😂. I was just lost on that ignition Input. I’ve earthed the corresponding wires outside of the BEP just to be sure. As I cut the wires I wasn’t sure were the ground was connected. I’ll do the rest run tomorrow and see if it works. 🤞🏻

    

19Back to top Go down   K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Empty Re: K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Thu Nov 17, 2022 3:15 am

Clintinz

Clintinz
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It’s ALIVE! 💪🏻 Thanks @robmack

    

20Back to top Go down   K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Empty Re: K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Thu Nov 17, 2022 9:39 am

Laitch

Laitch
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cheers


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 81,000 miles
K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Usa-lo10
    

21Back to top Go down   K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Empty Re: K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Thu Nov 17, 2022 9:57 am

robmack

robmack
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I'm glad I was able to help you get it going.  K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges 1f44d


__________________________________________________
Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

22Back to top Go down   K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Empty Re: K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Sat Nov 19, 2022 2:15 am

Clintinz

Clintinz
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Just need to get the bike moving to test all the sensors now. But have hit a snag. The m.unit is flashing at me when I plug in the power. Somethings not right. Back to the drawing board. 🤦🏻‍�

    

23Back to top Go down   K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Empty Re: K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Sat Nov 19, 2022 7:07 pm

Clintinz

Clintinz
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Hey guys. well can’t seem to figure this one out. Grounds are good. Volts a good. The m.unit just flashes as soon as I plug the battery in. It was all working fine u til yesterday I was testing grounds and noticed a slight lower value on one nut. It was a lock nut which was holding on the ground to the m.unit. So I loosened it to swap with another nut, forgot the battery was still plugged in, the unit flashed and then stopped as the ground weakened. I replaced the nut. And since then I can get the m.unit to connect properly. It doesn’t run through the lights. Just flashes and turns off. Tell me I haven’t broken it?! 😫🙏🏻

    

24Back to top Go down   K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Empty Re: K100 vs M.unit vs Daytona gauges Sat Nov 19, 2022 11:20 pm

robmack

robmack
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OK, don't give up yet.  What exactly is flashing?  Is the thing that is flashing doing so continuously or periodically or only once?

1. Do all the status indicator LEDs flash symultaneously for several seconds  then extinguish when you first connect the +ve lead to the battery?

2. You say that is Does not do the sequential flashing of the status indicator LEDs occur when the ignition switch is switched on?  Does that mean it is stuck on question #1 above?

3. Can you enter the Manual Programming Mode on the M.unit at all?

4. Have you attempted a RESET procedure?

Look at this video to understand the messages that the LEDs are trying to tell you.



Also, read through this page to see if it offers any assistance:  https://revivalcycles.com/blogs/technical-articles/mo-unit-troubleshooting


__________________________________________________
Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

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