Ok, starting a new thread for my ... "adventures" with this troublesome woman.
If mods/admin could cut all that from the welcome thread I'd be most grateful.

I'm no admin but here you go: simple copy and paste as a starter.

As of this morning, I have a glimmer of hope.

I stripped most of the bodywork off, taking photos along the way and noting all the various things that needed doing.

The ABS is completely bypassed and the steel lines, those that remain, have been bent in odd ways and places.  The ABS block itself though is sealed at all ports so there's hope it may be restorable.

There was no oil in the sight glass.  It took at least a half litre to bring it up.  No sign of mayonnaise under the filler cap.I dumped the mayo out of the overflow bottle and cleaned it out.  Thoroughly degreased it inside.  It came up pretty good. Checking the radiator cap in good light there is coolant, just not up where it should be.

Started it up, sounded like vintage tractors having hate sex same as before and it puked a TONNE of smoke.  The wife even came out and complained about it being sucked into the house.  It eventually stopped after five minutes or so.  Put the balancer on it (Twinmax, so I do two at a time, referenced to the one directly connected to the throttle cable) and balanced the throttle bodies (big brass screws).  They were badly out.  It now sounds like an actual 4cyl engine with a steady idle at a bit over 1000rpm.  I checked the vacuum balance at 3000rpm and the two TBs I checked were slightly out but the throttle plate screws appear to have been Locktite'd and I don't want to risk breaking the screw heads so that will have to wait.

Let it run right up to temperature and the fan activated properly, so that's something.  Nothing pushed out to the overflow tank though, it stayed cold throughout.  I opened the cap under the tank and the coolant has come up.  Cleaned the bottom of the cap, confirmed it does allow the system to suck water back in, topped up the radiator and sealed it back up.  If that doesn't pull coolant back up the hose the I have a leak somewhere.  No visible coolant leaks around the radiator or pump *that I could find*. Did not notice any "fizzing" in the coolant with the engine running and radiator cap off, so the head gasket may be ok after all.

I wouldn't worry about the ABS if it's not a requirement in NSW. If it's been mangled like that, chances are the ABS electronics are dead. If you still have the rubber brake lines on there, consider replacing them for Goodrich or similar and re-building it as a non-ABS brake system. You won't be the first.

Dai wrote:I wouldn't worry about the ABS if it's not a requirement in NSW. If it's been mangled like that, chances are the ABS electronics are dead. If you still have the rubber brake lines on there, consider replacing them for Goodrich or similar and re-building it as a non-ABS brake system. You won't be the first.

It's my understanding that in Australia at least since it is a safety feature and the bike was originally granted standards compliance with ABS that removing it would void that compliance and thus make it illegal to register in any form, and that in the event of any kind of traffic incident the insurance company could refuse the claim on that basis alone.  Had it originally been granted compliance without the ABS this would of course not be a problem.  I'm well aware there are many bikes around with the ABS bypassed.  What others choose to do with their bikes is their responsibility.  Me, personally, I'm somewhat pedantic about safety gear working properly.

What I was told when I asked about the ABS (it was not mentioned in the original sale advert and I forgot to ask initially) was that the back wheel had started locking up so the owner bypassed it.  He the discovered that the problem was that the rear master cylinder was not retracting properly due to the control adjustment and fixed that without returning the ABS to service.
The ABS unit has all the ports sealed up and the relay removed.

Dark Angel wrote:What I was told when I asked about the ABS (it was not mentioned in the original sale advert and I forgot to ask initially) was that the back wheel had started locking up so the owner bypassed it.  He the discovered that the problem was that the rear master cylinder was not retracting properly due to the control adjustment and fixed that without returning the ABS to service.
The ABS unit has all the ports sealed up and the relay removed.

Well that's good news.

Perhaps.
If it was sealed up with clean brake fluid inside then yes.
If it was contaminated fluid or none at all then not so much.
It just means that there's a chance.


I've also been trying to find an engine number database to confirm what I was told about the swap.  I'm at the stage of "trust nothing, confirm everything" now.  It's not helping that the engine number doesn't match others that people have listed.
The number stamped into the engine casing (right side at the back of the block) is 1KEA 0895 2042

My humour for the day:
"1KEA"
Ikea.  Build your own damn bike.

Scratch that, the first set of characters is 114EA.  That's far less amusing.  Oh well.

It really is close enough.

Today's little adventure, started with scrubbing the wheels with degreaser (yes, dirty greasy Beemer wheels. This should not be a thing on a shaft drive bike) and I discover the front wheel isn't spinning freely. Turns out the calipers aren't fully releasing. Not dragging a lot, but it's not right. Removed the calipers and find the mounting screws are gummed up with layer upon layer of old thread locker, so ran a tap down the threads and cleaned it out. Next worked the pistons back and forth and cleaning them. Then the fluid ... having pushed the pistons back in fully is now cloudy and contaminated from lack of proper maintenance.

Side note: the #1 reason for ABS system failure in BMWs is lack of brake fluid changes.  I don't understand why this happens so often across all makes and models but I've found personally and through broader discussion that BMW ABS systems are quite precious little darlings about this.  It's not a hard job, even on models with Whizzer brakes.  12 months to 2 years max and don't forget the lines at 5 years or just replace them with braided lines and be done with it.

So with the fluid changed and the ABS-less front brakes now at least working as best they can I turn my attention to the forks which the (insert Australian expression for a person of diminutive stature) previous owner has lifted up in the triple clamps. It's at this point I discover he definitely doesn't own or know how to use a torque wrench since the clamp screws are only supposed to be torqued to 15Nm and I found several done up to "gorilla"Nm instead. This also explains why it's so heavy in the front end as it's been pitched forward. Forks reset to proper position and clamp bolts done to specified torque.

and for a little adventure today, since it's of mixed heritage I've been trying to work out which Motronic is installed in this machine.
I found this page with an exhaustive set of numbers that finally pinned it down:
https://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/techarticles/E36-DME-Repair/DME-Numbers.txt

Hopefully this will save someone else several hours of fruitless searching.
To answer my own question, I have a Motronic 2.2 ECU.

Next was working out if it has an O2 sensor or just the CO pot since the documentation suggests it should have both for the later model ECU.  It does not.  It does however have the port welded into the exhaust before the Staintune slip-on (with a bung in it).  Unfortunately I cannot for the life of me find the socket on the loom that a sensor would connect to.  I worked out where is SHOULD be, but it's not there.  I'm currently suspecting that I have the '93 wiring loom and am debating if I will add the wiring for the sensor (if it indeed missing then I'll have to add the wiring to the ECU plug) to make full use of the later model ECU closed loop functions.

It is highly unlikely that the ECU you mention is correct as that E36 is a car and to the best of my knowledge the 4 cyl E36 only had a Siemens ECU.
Motronic was a term used on bikes and cars.
Pelican parts only sell BMW car parts, that is where I buy all my car parts.
Very unlikely that your K11 ever had a oxygen sensor as any that were made for the Australian National market only had a CO2 pot adjustment.
I will have a look tomorrow to see what the numbers are on mine.

If you have a better information source to decode the ECU markings I'd be most grateful.  I'm at the point I have to identify everything myself because I simply can't trust what I was told originally.  I'm making a spreadsheet with all the information I gather as well as the parts I'm replacing because they're busted from rough handling, worn out with age, incorrectly replaced, or simply missing.  Being unable to post pictures (I gather it's to keep the storage costs for the forum under tight control) does hamper things somewhat as otherwise I'd post pictures of the ECU numbers and the O2 sensor mounting boss, amongst others.

Make an account on imgbb.com and link to the pics (is what I do). I can't remember what the freebie limit is but it shouldn't be too difficult to keep pic bloat under control. Generally I'd say that a maximum size of 1920 x 1080 pixels would be good. The forum cuts the 'enlargement size' to 1024 x 768 pixels but the link to the original image means that anyone can get a look at a bigger picture if needs be. Save as .jpg for smallest space.

Dark Angel wrote:Being unable to post pictures (I gather it's to keep the storage costs for the forum under tight control) does hamper things somewhat as otherwise I'd post pictures...

After five solid posts you are (now) able to load photos onto the forum. Search 'Posting Photos' in the Forum's search engine. It's clunky at first, admittedly, but you get used to it.

The number on mine is 1 464 811 the bike is a 99 K1100, Australian delivered and no O2 sensor.
realoem.com is the place for good info

Mine is 1461710 but could be from either a '93 or '95 until I pin it down. I'll trawl through realoem and see what I can find.

Dark Angel wrote:Mine is 1461710 but could be from either a '93 or '95 until I pin it down.  I'll trawl through realoem and see what I can find.

BMW part numbers are broken into main group and subsections, and are 11 digits in total, long. That said, you only need the last 7 digits to sort out exactly what it is, the first two groups of 2 numbers aren't critical, and so 1 461 710 is a head gasket. Prolly should have a closer look. It's more likely 1 464 710, which fits non-US, up to 7/93 production date.

Two Wheels Better wrote:

Dark Angel wrote:Mine is 1461710 but could be from either a '93 or '95 until I pin it down.  I'll trawl through realoem and see what I can find.

BMW part numbers are broken into main group and subsections, and are 11 digits in total, long. That said, you only need the last 7 digits to sort out exactly what it is, the first two groups of 2 numbers aren't critical, and so 1 461 710 is a head gasket. Prolly should have a closer look. It's more likely 1 464 710, which fits non-US, up to 7/93 production date.

Yes, it's 1 464 710.  I miss-typed.
Ok, from realoem: It looks like it's a 2.1 but it's not the one that chassis left the factory with as the original build date was 11/'92 and this ECU was fitted from 07/'93
Either way, I now need to learn how to tune via the CO potentiometer.

I don't think that the K11RS ever came with that ECU. Has your bike got the ABS unit mounted under the seat and if so should have the 1464811 ECU. Like you were saying you sure got a bitsa.
Don't be too concerned about needing the ABS to get rego as the ABS was optional on all K11s and was only standard equipment when the K1200RS came out, so as far as ADR goes it is not compulsory. I realize that you would prefer it to be there as I do but it is not compulsory.
With regard to the CO2 pot adjustment, be careful not to turn the screw too far as the piece that travels on the thread will come off the end and cause headaches for you. I have always just set it to centre and done minor adjustments once a analyzer is available and even then there was very little difference when adjusted correctly.

Dark Angel wrote:Perhaps.
If it was sealed up with clean brake fluid inside then yes.
If it was contaminated fluid or none at all then not so much.
It just means that there's a chance.


I've also been trying to find an engine number database to confirm what I was told about the swap.  I'm at the stage of "trust nothing, confirm everything" now.  It's not helping that the engine number doesn't match others that people have listed.
The number stamped into the engine casing (right side at the back of the block) is 1KEA 0895 2042

My humour for the day:
"1KEA"
Ikea.  Build your own damn bike.

That says your engine was manufactured week 8 1995.....but 91-93 K1100 is different from 94 on. Motronic differs, ABS differs, so you will need to understand what happens. ABS on 91-93 also differs from 94 on.

Rick G wrote:I don't think that the K11RS ever came with that ECU. Has your bike got the ABS unit mounted under the seat and if so should have the 1464811 ECU. Like you were saying you sure got a bitsa.
Don't be too concerned about needing the ABS to get rego as the ABS was optional on all K11s and was only standard equipment when the K1200RS came out, so as far as ADR goes it is not compulsory. I realize that you would prefer it to be there as I do but it is not compulsory.
With regard to the CO2 pot adjustment, be careful not to turn the screw too far as the piece that travels on the thread will come off the end and cause headaches for you. I have always just set it to centre and done minor adjustments once a analyzer is available and even then there was very little difference when adjusted correctly.

I think the ECU is from the LT that the motor came from.  I think this calls for my first picture.  This is the label on the ECU fitted to the bike, it's under the seat exactly where you'd expect.

92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:

Dark Angel wrote:Perhaps.
If it was sealed up with clean brake fluid inside then yes.
If it was contaminated fluid or none at all then not so much.
It just means that there's a chance.


I've also been trying to find an engine number database to confirm what I was told about the swap.  I'm at the stage of "trust nothing, confirm everything" now.  It's not helping that the engine number doesn't match others that people have listed.
The number stamped into the engine casing (right side at the back of the block) is 1KEA 0895 2042

My humour for the day:
"1KEA"
Ikea.  Build your own damn bike.

That says your engine was manufactured week 8 1995.....but 91-93 K1100 is different from 94 on. Motronic differs, ABS differs, so you will need to understand what happens. ABS on 91-93 also differs from 94 on.

Yes, it's the differences that I'm trying to work out so I know what I've got.  Working through the parts lists online the ABS system I have (that's been disabled) is an ABS II unit with the single modulator under the sea rather than the two modulators of the ABS I system.  Having found pricing for the new components to revive the ABS II I'm now very likely to completely strip it out and convert it to non ABS but I'll be replacing the brake lines.  It wouldn't surprise me if the rubber lines currently on it are original.

When I built Big Block, I used a K1100RS engine harness on the K12 engine, welded and tapped a bung into the collector for an O2 sensor, found (from eBay) an appropriate Motronic ECU for a late '93 on K11 (basically 1994 on, like yours) so I didn't need to use the ignition amplifier mounted to the battery tray, and Bob's yer uncle. Any excess wiring for the long-gone ABS was selectively stripped out of the main loom to significantly lighten the poundage.

I may have found a source for all the lines and a modulator here in Oz that's not exorbitantly expensive.  Will have to see if I can scratch up the readies after I pay for club rego.
Have also found a source for a reasonably priced exhaust analyzer, but that will have to wait.

Two Wheels Better wrote:When I built Big Block, I used a K1100RS engine harness on the K12 engine, welded and tapped a bung into the collector for an O2 sensor, found (from eBay) an appropriate Motronic ECU for a late '93 on K11 (basically 1994 on, like yours) so I didn't need to use the ignition amplifier mounted to the battery tray, and Bob's yer uncle. Any excess wiring for the long-gone ABS was selectively stripped out of the main loom to significantly lighten the poundage.

Ok, specific questions:
Does the O2 sensor work correctly with the ECU you have?  Did your loom have the required wiring or was it like mine and you had to run the connections yourself?  What ECU model do you have exactly?  I'd really like to install the closed loop system but I'm not replacing the ECU to do it.

Dark Angel wrote:

Two Wheels Better wrote:When I built Big Block, I used a K1100RS engine harness on the K12 engine, welded and tapped a bung into the collector for an O2 sensor, found (from eBay) an appropriate Motronic ECU for a late '93 on K11 (basically 1994 on, like yours) so I didn't need to use the ignition amplifier mounted to the battery tray, and Bob's yer uncle. Any excess wiring for the long-gone ABS was selectively stripped out of the main loom to significantly lighten the poundage.

Ok, specific questions:
Does the O2 sensor work correctly with the ECU you have?  Did your loom have the required wiring or was it like mine and you had to run the connections yourself?  What ECU model do you have exactly?  I'd really like to install the closed loop system but I'm not replacing the ECU to do it.

Except for me crawling around in a cold arse garage in winter in search of a number on a Motronic I fit nine years ago, all of your questions are answered in what I intially wrote. Other than thinning out the main loom of ABS, no mods were required for the appropriate engine loom to accept the ox sensor. I ran without an 02 for a while but defaulting to full rich is not on.

When I feel better (chest cold) I'll see if the number on the Motronic is visible.

Two Wheels Better wrote:

Dark Angel wrote:

Two Wheels Better wrote:When I built Big Block, I used a K1100RS engine harness on the K12 engine, welded and tapped a bung into the collector for an O2 sensor, found (from eBay) an appropriate Motronic ECU for a late '93 on K11 (basically 1994 on, like yours) so I didn't need to use the ignition amplifier mounted to the battery tray, and Bob's yer uncle. Any excess wiring for the long-gone ABS was selectively stripped out of the main loom to significantly lighten the poundage.

Ok, specific questions:
Does the O2 sensor work correctly with the ECU you have?  Did your loom have the required wiring or was it like mine and you had to run the connections yourself?  What ECU model do you have exactly?  I'd really like to install the closed loop system but I'm not replacing the ECU to do it.

Except for me crawling around in a cold arse garage in winter in search of a number on a Motronic I fit nine years ago, all of your questions are answered in what I intially wrote. Other than thinning out the main loom of ABS, no mods were required for the appropriate engine loom to accept the ox sensor. I ran without an 02 for a while but defaulting to full rich is not on.

When I feel better (chest cold) I'll see if the number on the Motronic is visible.

Don't go injuring yourself on my account, I know it's been really cold in the US lately.
I just asked because I cannot for the life of me find the plug for the O2 sensor on my loom.  Pictures referring to it show the plug as being on the left hand side beside the ABS module, but I can't find it.  I do have a mystery plug inside the relay box but the wiring doesn't match the stated colours (or number of  wires) in the wiring diagrams I've been able to find.

The plug is a big round bastard and if your bike/harness was never meant to have one, it will not be there.

The engine looms for US-intended K11 models all had 02 sensor plugs, so very easy to source one here.

That would confirm what I'm seeing, thanks.

This is the bike side of the connector. It has funky threads.

My Motronic is (13 61) 1 464 717, which fits 02 sensor equipped K1100RS & LT, Euro & US, 7th month of 1993 production date and later. Other variations (superceded numbers) of this unit are: 13 61 1 464 491, 607 & 649.

The "649" version was spec'd for all markets 02 sensor-equipped K100RS-16V & K1.

duck wrote:This is the bike side of the connector. It has funky threads.

Thanks for the pic.  I have nothing remotely like that, at least nothing I've been able to find.
This is the plug I found inside my relay box.  It's obviously nothing like the O2 sensor plug but I haven't been able to find what it's supposed to be.  The wire colours aren't matching what I'm finding in the diagrams, either.  I can only surmise it's not that important.

Two Wheels Better wrote:My Motronic is (13 61) 1 464 717, which fits 02 sensor equipped K1100RS & LT, Euro & US, 7th month of 1993 production date and later. Other variations (superceded numbers) of this unit are: 13 61 1 464 491, 607 & 649.

The "649" version was spec'd for all markets 02 sensor-equipped K100RS-16V & K1.

Now I thought you weren't going snow diving for the time being.  Last thing you want is to provoke pneumonia.

Dark Angel wrote:
Now I thought you weren't going snow diving for the time being.  Last thing you want is to provoke pneumonia.

Tacoma cold isn't Minnesota cold like the Bunya Mtns cold isn't Kunanyi cold.

Two Wheels Better wrote:

Dark Angel wrote:
Now I thought you weren't going snow diving for the time being.  Last thing you want is to provoke pneumonia.

Tacoma cold isn't Minnesota cold like the Bunya Mtns cold isn't Kunanyi cold.

Coldest place I've ever been temperature wise is Charlotte Pass.  Coldest on the skin (miserable cold and damp) was Port Campbell on the Great Ocean Road.  I have no reference for any of the places you mentioned.

Bike got through inspection today, so I'm one step closer to getting it back on the road.

The Bunyas is SE Qld, Kunanyi/Wellington behind Hobart. I spent the Tassie portion of my childhood scrambling up that frosty peak.

"Cold" in SE QLD is 24C.  "Cold" on the peaks of Taswegia is closer to 24F.

Dark Angel wrote:"Cold" in SE QLD is 24C.  "Cold" on the peaks of Taswegia is closer to 24F.

There, you have it.

Dark Angel wrote:
This is the plug I found inside my relay box.  It's obviously nothing like the O2 sensor plug but I haven't been able to find what it's supposed to be.  The wire colours aren't matching what I'm finding in the diagrams, either.  I can only surmise it's not that important.

I would have said that's the 'connector for special equipment' (i.e. police bikes) but it's missing three wires. What colours are left attached? That would give a positive i.d. The connector block can be black, white or blue so if you go hunting for another wiring loom, be aware of it.

Dai wrote:

Dark Angel wrote:
This is the plug I found inside my relay box.  It's obviously nothing like the O2 sensor plug but I haven't been able to find what it's supposed to be.  The wire colours aren't matching what I'm finding in the diagrams, either.  I can only surmise it's not that important.

I would have said that's the 'connector for special equipment' (i.e. police bikes) but it's missing three wires. What colours are left attached? That would give a positive i.d. The connector block can be black, white or blue so if you go hunting for another wiring loom, be aware of it.

Here's the back of the connector, as found so don't blame me for what you see.

Right. It's actually the OEM alarm connector, but missing the green/slate (green/grey) wire that goes to the horn. I guess someone had a need for an additional feed at some point as they have tapped into earth (brown) and fuse 7 (green/brown - looks green/red). The earlier K75s and K100s have a four-pin connector for the alarm system and that big brute of a connector for the police fittings.

So; when you find the green/slate wire that's been cut off and goes nowhere, you know where it should have gone. It'll be worth checking the horns to see if one side has three green/slate wires connected to it, or both sides having two green/slate wires. In either case you will know that the cut off wire is still in the main harness somewhere.

Like my beef in another thread about crossed wires in a wiring diagram, in my analogue design days working for Plessey and then Siemens another thing that was hammered into my young thick skull was to always refer to a grey (gray) wire as 'slate' (as in the colour 'slate grey') because on a quick read of a diagram, it's too easy to read G as either green or grey and similarly, GR as green or grey. BTDT fairly recently on a Royal Enfield wiring diagram and cursed mightily when I fckd up the wiring to the ECU.

And do not get me started on the ABS wire that was marked as G/GR......

Excellent, thank you!  It took me a while to get my head around my previous Beemer, this one is just as odd in it's (its) own ways but I'll get there.

Got some work done on it today.
Replaced the coolant overflow tank with the correct one with the correct hose.  Replaced the fuel tank rear mounting rubbers and missing clips.  Replaced a missing airbox lid clip.  Replaced a missing clip on the seat pivot.  Replaced one of the missing tank breather hoses (didn't order enough hose to do both, will get that in the next parts order).  Was going to adjust the rear brake pedal but had enough for the day and I have someone to be soon to do club paperwork for historic rego.

I'm making progress.

You don't really need the tank breather hoses:
https://www.kbikeparts.com/classickbikes.com/ckb.tech/0.ckb.tech.files/thecup/thecup.htm

The other thing that breather hose does is reduce the amount of dust that gets sucked into the fuel tank.  While the fuel filter is of a decent size in these bikes I'm used to dealing with Suzukis where it's about the size of a third of a pack of chewing gum and blocks easily.  Having a longer breather hose doesn't hamper the right amount of air getting into the tank but it does reduce how much very fine dust gets in.  The fuel cap drain, yeah that isn't such a big deal except to prevent fuel spillage from running down that and onto a hot motor when refuelling on the road.  I don't mind dealing with the hoses since once I'm done I won't be taking the tank off very often at all.

Dark Angel wrote:
Bike got through inspection today, so I'm one step closer to getting it back on the road.

Well there you go, the bigger the problem that gets solved the bigger the joy and satisfaction thereafter!! 

This will be a long term project for sure, and I still have some testing to do before I trust the bike. That takes me a while at the best of times.

Dark Angel wrote:I don't mind dealing with the hoses since once I'm done I won't be taking the tank off very often at all.

Make your new fuel lines two inches longer than standard. That will give you enough length to get under the tank without having to disconnect it. You can always fit QD connectors in the fuel lines (a few of us have) but - and it's a big 'but' - IME do not use plastic ones. The sideways pressure on the fuel lines is enough to start them leaking when the tank goes back on. I bought stainless ones which were way too far north of U$100, but I don't regret one cent of it.

Dai wrote:

Dark Angel wrote:I don't mind dealing with the hoses since once I'm done I won't be taking the tank off very often at all.

Make your new fuel lines two inches longer than standard. That will give you enough length to get under the tank without having to disconnect it. 

You don't need to do that on the 4V Ks.

Ah. Thanks for that info

Dark Angel wrote:The other thing that breather hose does is reduce the amount of dust that gets sucked into the fuel tank.  While the fuel filter is of a decent size in these bikes I'm used to dealing with Suzukis where it's about the size of a third of a pack of chewing gum and blocks easily.  Having a longer breather hose doesn't hamper the right amount of air getting into the tank but it does reduce how much very fine dust gets in.  The fuel cap drain, yeah that isn't such a big deal except to prevent fuel spillage from running down that and onto a hot motor when refuelling on the road.  I don't mind dealing with the hoses since once I'm done I won't be taking the tank off very often at all.

It's a breather outlet. Very fine dust does not get "sucked in." There's a "burrito" in the top of the tank where gas fumes can collect at the top of that breather pipe.  BMW makes "the cup." It's not an aftermarket doohickey.