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1Back to top Go down   Extra large copper cables Empty Extra large copper cables Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:29 am

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I was looking through the Motorworks website wnhen I came across this product:Hicap Starting Upgrade Kit ( K75 / K100 / K1100 ) | ELA90002
Their advert claims:

HICAP - High Capacity Oxygen Free Copper DC Distribution Circuit from Motolectric.com
- improves your starting to better than it was when your bike was new
- most bikes will start in about a second (assuming you have a decent battery and your starter isn't worn out)
- extends battery life (sometimes 2-3 times longer life)
- maximizes the life of your starter motor
- extends the life of your sprag clutch
- virtually eliminates the chance of the aggravating 'fused solenoid syndrome'
- minimizes your chance of being left stranded
- overall better electrical system performance
- enhances your pride of ownership in your classic motorcycle
- minimizes your impact on the environment
- simple installation; leads on this kit run in parallel with OEM leads

Is anyone familiar with it? The point which caught my interest was "virtually eliminates the chance of the aggravating 'fused solenoid syndrome"

    

2Back to top Go down   Extra large copper cables Empty Re: Extra large copper cables Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:07 am

Jhepburn

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I have no idea and don't know enough about electricals, although I do know that fatter cables have lower resistance, and lower resistance is probably a good thing, but I thought you might like to know that the manufacturer is http://www.motolectric.com .

    

3Back to top Go down   Extra large copper cables Empty Re: Extra large copper cables Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:24 am

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I mentioned this product to the mechanic who takes care of my cars and he thought it couldn't do any harm to fit these cables since the run in parallel with the originals. Especially as my bike has just presented the 'solenoid syndrone'. He also suggest I have the cable made to order over here (Brazil) as they will be cheaper!

    

4Back to top Go down   Extra large copper cables Empty Re: Extra large copper cables Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:19 pm

charlie99

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id be interested to see the results martin .....
i have always thought that automotive wiring was ..erm economically chosen amongst most of the suppliers .. and certainly the battery feed to the starter seems small to me ..in fact the whole bike electrics...

i have this theory, they put in enough copper to do the job expected ..erm without too much heating effect only.

which is fine if economics in manufacture is your primary aim .

i was surprised the other day when measuring around ...things in general ....11.5 -11.7 volts seemed a pretty common measurement with just ignition on (battery was a healthy 12.3) to be honest i was expecting a bit better, maybe 11.9- 12.1

ima guna investigate when i get time . but i expect some deoxit in the right places might improve this a little only.

    

5Back to top Go down   Extra large copper cables Empty Re: Extra large copper cables Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:57 pm

K-BIKE

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There is no question that the wire sizes on bikes and cars are as thin as they can be to get by, copper costs money and when the accountants get in charge they start demanding cut backs in specification to the point where the item can still perform with a brand new battery. Throw in low temperatures and thin cable then the voltage delivered drops sometimes to the point where it will not start.

Starting with the basis that the battery is what it is you are not changing it and it is fully charged. There are two issues here cranking speed which is determined by the resistance of all the bits in the circuit the wires, the relay, the frame and earth resistance and also the condition of the starter motor. The second is how much voltage gets to the ignition module, coils and control bits since no matter what speed the bike or car for that matter cranks if the voltage getting to the ignition bits is too low you will not get a spark good enough to fire the mixture.
So is this kit any good will it be of any benefit? Looking at the construction quality it looks fine and is well sized and given it is put in parallel with the existing it will improve the voltage delivered to the starter significantly. You could achieve the same by making up your own kit but few of us have access to the very big crimping tools needed to fit the proper terminals to the wire. If you do then go for it and either replace or double up the supply leads to the critical bits. One other worthwhile thing is to use DeoxIT on the terminals and to put some into the crimped connection to help the conductivity between strands and the copper terminal lug and to reduce corrosion caused by damp wicking into the wire due to capilliary action.

So either buy the kit or make your own it cannot but improve the voltage delivered to the vital bits and when the chips are down, it is cold, the lights have been left on or the battery is low due to lots of short runs/low speed running and it has got to start, then you need evey volt there is and can afford none to be wasted in high resistance cables.
Regards,
K-BIKE

    

6Back to top Go down   Extra large copper cables Empty Re: Extra large copper cables Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:22 pm

RicK G

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Martin K100RS wrote:I was looking through the Motorworks website wnhen I came across this product:Hicap Starting Upgrade Kit ( K75 / K100 / K1100 ) | ELA90002
Their advert claims:

HICAP - High Capacity Oxygen Free Copper DC Distribution Circuit from Motolectric.com Oxygen free copper is about 3 times the price and has little to no benefit in these circumstances. It is used in the computer industry where the marginally better conductivity is of benefit because of the small size of conductors
- improves your starting to better than it was when your bike was new True but how much better? 1-5% Where are the figures to back this up
- most bikes will start in about a second (assuming you have a decent battery and your starter isn't worn out) And most bikes do this already and if yours dosen't it only said MOST
- extends battery life (sometimes 2-3 times longer life)Most battries die from sulphating which is due to lack of use Note Sometimes
- maximizes the life of your starter motor True but by how much? Figures please
- extends the life of your sprag clutch True but once again by how much? What maximizes the life of the sprag clutch is regular oil changes and good maintenance
- virtually eliminates the chance of the aggravating 'fused solenoid syndrome' This IS BS If you have a low battery and this is when it happens more power will be disipated across the points so there is a higher chance of this happening. The best insurance against this is to keep a good battery in the bike
- minimizes your chance of being left stranded More BS Once again good and regular maintenance is the key
- overall better electrical system performance Possibly and marginal
- enhances your pride of ownership in your classic motorcycle The more money you spend at a dealer the better it looks to them
- minimizes your impact on the environment Where the F do they get that
- simple installation; leads on this kit run in parallel with OEM leads Crap again it means an extra lead through an already cramped hole rather than a slightly larger lead

Is anyone familiar with it? The point which caught my interest was "virtually eliminates the chance of the aggravating 'fused solenoid syndrome"
Please read the above
I dont say it is a bad idea but quite the reverse. It does make for better starting and is worthwhile upgrading the main power cables in any vehicle. But this is made out to be the snake oil motorcycle lubrication. Especially the bit about "fused solenoid syndrome".

    

7Back to top Go down   Extra large copper cables Empty Re: Extra large copper cables Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:42 pm

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"I read it in the newspaper, so it must be true."
John Q Public

    

8Back to top Go down   Extra large copper cables Empty Re: Extra large copper cables Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:07 pm

charlie99

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Extra large copper cables 44271

i agree its a crock


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%OExtra large copper cables Au-log10

'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
    

9Back to top Go down   Extra large copper cables Empty Re: Extra large copper cables Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:49 pm

pjjms

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Seems to me there are a couple of points worth noting.
Yes, manufacturers build to a budget, thats what we want, well priced bikes. But poor reliability would do them no good, we don't want that, so I would bet these bikes started well when new. We also demand light bikes and copper weighs a lot. So I don't think we can blame the original build.

I would bet there would be far more to be gained cleaning all the contacts and keeping the battery in good condition. After all the connections are all 20 plus years old, and I have lost count of how many times this site has said "clean electrical contacts".

Remamber that as battery voltage drops the current the starter draws goes up, and the high current just drags the battery voltage down further. Keep the battery charged, and riding the bike once a month ain't going to keep it at its best. Its this low battery voltage/high current that will do in the solenoid.

    

10Back to top Go down   Extra large copper cables Empty Re: Extra large copper cables Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:05 am

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When the bike's in the garage for more than a few days (which for my K100RS is hardly ever) I whack my Yuasa 1.25amp 'battery tender' on to it through the 12V accessory point and leave it there floating in and out of its dreamy little sleepy-chargy world. I've done that for ages with all of my bikes and my batteries usually last four, five years at a minimum. Of course I also keep the connections clean and tight ('star' washers are your friend) and ride the bikes as often as I can. In addition I bought a larger gauge cable and some heavy gauge ends and soldered 'em up into an extra earth strap to the gearbox mounting point. I don't have a long history to observe whether this has done anything but my bike starts every day and every time. It's the little things that we do that add up, good and bad.

    

11Back to top Go down   Extra large copper cables Empty Re: Extra large copper cables Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:27 am

charlie99

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i have taken another 3mm diameter copper cable from the negative to the earth point at frame under the tank ....i figure the losses in the mating surfaces, aluminium and steel /bolts have some what different metalurgy ...and where dc is involved have witnessed electrolosis occur over extended times .

so my thinking is to provide a tinned copper conductor (lugg) to similar luggs at that point as that is the main return path for all the electrical devices outside of the starter and altenator. yes it may setup an earth loop but the currents required by the altenator and starter could always do with some assitance ....

quite often everybody fitts bigger better positives ...but neglect the earth returns, causing flow limitations .

btw when i did my relay mod there is two equal and awesome earth cables going back to that under tank connection.


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%OExtra large copper cables Au-log10

'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
    

12Back to top Go down   Extra large copper cables Empty Re: Extra large copper cables Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:56 pm

87m6chris

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http://www.olypen.com/craigh/oxgard.htm
This might be worth a read to some of you, I use it on all my bikes and cars. Not only does it help prevent oxidation but unlike the rest it conducts. Not suitable for multiple connection plugs but great for power and ground transfers.

    

13Back to top Go down   Extra large copper cables Empty Re: Extra large copper cables Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:12 pm

charlie99

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mighty fine tip chris ...thanks


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%OExtra large copper cables Au-log10

'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
    

14Back to top Go down   Extra large copper cables Empty Re: Extra large copper cables Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:13 am

blaKey

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The good thing about DeoxIT is that you can slather it all over multipin connectors and never worry about it shorting anything out.


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Neil
K100RS 1986 RED!

Dress for the ride and the potential slide.
    

15Back to top Go down   Extra large copper cables Empty Re: Extra large copper cables Sun Jun 05, 2011 3:34 am

BIG D

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Cool

Just out of curiosity was there not a topic on the forum about battery earth cables and the changing to a larger cable or even doubling the existing one, or am I talking trash I am sure there was something mentioned. scratch

BIG D

    

16Back to top Go down   Extra large copper cables Empty Re: Extra large copper cables Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:19 am

blaKey

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It's been discussed here before.


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Neil
K100RS 1986 RED!

Dress for the ride and the potential slide.
    

17Back to top Go down   Extra large copper cables Empty Re: Extra large copper cables Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:34 am

BIG D

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Cool

Thanks blakey, just ran a search and found it cheers.

BIG D

    

18Back to top Go down   Extra large copper cables Empty Re: Extra large copper cables Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:35 am

charlie99

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your probably right d ....makes good sence to me

forgive me, if i went over previously covered subjects


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%OExtra large copper cables Au-log10

'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
    

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