BMW K bikes (Bricks)

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1987k100rt

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does anyone have a reference or diagrams concerning the Clutch cable nipple holder fix? This is to keep to keep gravity from pulling the nipple holder down and creating an un even rotation while pulling in the clutch. Trying to keep the new clutch cable strain free. Just replaced the clutch cable and the nipple holder due to a breakage in this same spot. Thanks

    

blaKey

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I can't recall this being mentioned anywhere.

I had a look at mine and the tension on the cable keeps the nipple (oooh I like that word...) holder in place with no chance of dropping.

Anyone else out there heard of this fix?


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Neil
K100RS 1986 RED!

Dress for the ride and the potential slide.
    

Inge K.

Inge K.
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Unknown problem to me, on my oldest K I`ve changed the wire one time in 25 years.
And the reason wasn`t that it did break, but just being stiff to operate....after 15 years in service.

If the nipple (ooh yes) falling down by gravity, the spring in lowest end of the cable
or the one at the pushrod piston have breaked off or lost it`s tension.

Inge K.

    

1987k100rt

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The spring has tension and it seems to operate correctly, it just seems to fall a bit in the lever hole after several pulls on it. I saw somewhere mentioned on this site about a fix for this. I have adjusted the cable exactly as laid out in this forum. If you have any ideas please let me know. Thanks again for the help.

    

ReneZ

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Don't understand some responses. A properly adjusted lever has a bit of clearance (clutch 2 to 4 mm clearance) and therefore no continuous pull on the bullet. The issue mentioned is well known, relating to the possibility of the bullet to drop in the holes in the handle in its free position. This is a progressive problem as with each incremental drop the holes wear unequal further. Some have fitted a ring with a little bolt/screw to keep the bullet from dropping to prevent the unequal load and therefore fraying/breaking of the wire at the bullet. Once a handle has unequally worn holes you better replace it, as the 'bolt with ring' fix only works with limited wear.


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Greetings from Florida! Having a 'new' K  :cyclops:    Surprised-o: 

Rene


BMW K100 - 1985 (0030029) Clutch cable barrel / nipple holder keeps dropping Rain
BMW K1200GT - 2003 (ZK01223)
    

Inge K.

Inge K.
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It could be that this is a well known issue, but unknown to me after 25 years/ over 200K km with the same bike.

To me it looks to be maintance related (or lack of). The specified clearance should be 4mm at the opening in front of the lever, and the strength of the springs would normally keep the wire in tension on the upper bullet.

This also depends on that all other items related is well lubricated and moves freely: clutch lever and pivot screw, bullets in both ends, needle bearings at release lever and a wire without kinks.

Just my thoughts.

Inge K.

    

Avenger GT

Avenger GT
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When the clutch is properly adjusted, the small coil spring inside the rubber boot at the back of the gearbox keeps the cable in tension, which keeps the handlebar lever against its stop. The initial pull of the lever opens the 4mm gap at the handlebar before the lever at the back of the gearbox makes contact with the push rod to operate the clutch. If there is any stiffness in the bearings in the lower lever then the small spring inside the boot will not be strong enough to keep tension in the cable, and the handlebar lever will be slack for the first few millimeters. You should be able to pull the handlebar lever easily with one finger for the first 4 mm, and when you let it go it should snap back against the stop. If it doesn't then either your cable is incorrectly adjusted or is sticking, or else the bearings in the clutch arm at the back of the gearbox are seized.

    

charlie99

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good point avenger


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cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%OClutch cable barrel / nipple holder keeps dropping Au-log10

'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
    

1987k100rt

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I am going to have to make sure the cable is adjusted correctly again to see if I missed something. The lever is pulled against the stop when let out. When pulled in slightly it is semi easy to pull then gets more tension on it when engaged. The clutch seems to perform fine but I notice after several pulls that the bullet drops inside the lever a few millimeters and you can literally push it back up with your finger when the lever is not pulled in. I just replaced this cable and would like to prolong it's life expectancy. The previous cable broke right at this bullet area because the old bullet which was replaced showed signs of a flat spot and old greas which had hardened and kept the bullet from moving forcing the cable to bend and thus break. Can you use lithium grease on the bullet? It seems to me that the bullet does not rotate as freely as it should but I am not an expert. Maybe the lever is worn unevenly.

    

blaKey

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"The lever is pulled against the stop when let out. When pulled in slightly it is semi easy to pull then gets more tension on it when engaged." Yep, that's how it is suppose to work.

Lithium grease is ok, I use bearing grease. Grease it every six months or so (the lever end as well as the "arm" on the other end of the cable).

Indeed check the clutch lever for wear in that area. I think that's where you'll find the problem.


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Neil
K100RS 1986 RED!

Dress for the ride and the potential slide.
    

walfish

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Avenger is spoton here, I battled with the same problem, then changed the clutch arm bearings( bought from a local bearing dealer, half the price of Bins).Clutch feels brand new,
I have been advised not to lube any part of the cable, so don't go there.

    

blaKey

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Oh no, don't lube the cable, just the end bits (I didn't want to say nipples, as I know you lot will go all silly...).


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Neil
K100RS 1986 RED!

Dress for the ride and the potential slide.
    

walfish

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Oh yes,, it does bring a tremor to the lip

    

ReneZ

ReneZ
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If you have the barrel dropping at the grip it normally indicates wear and quite often uneven, which forces the barrel at an angle and shortens the life. However it will break when it drops so far that it only holds in one of the holes. Drill a little hole next to the lower hole in the grip and fit a little screw with washer that holds the barrel up. Should give you a lot longer fun!


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Greetings from Florida! Having a 'new' K  :cyclops:    Surprised-o: 

Rene


BMW K100 - 1985 (0030029) Clutch cable barrel / nipple holder keeps dropping Rain
BMW K1200GT - 2003 (ZK01223)
    

1987k100rt

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@ReneZ wrote:If you have the barrel dropping at the grip it normally indicates wear and quite often uneven, which forces the barrel at an angle and shortens the life. However it will break when it drops so far that it only holds in one of the holes. Drill a little hole next to the lower hole in the grip and fit a little screw with washer that holds the barrel up. Should give you a lot longer fun!



ReneZ, I am interested in trying this fix. Have you already done the screw on the clutch lever to hold the cable nipple holder? How does it work? Do you have a photo or diagram of how to do this. Please let me know if you or anyone else has this fix in place. thank you.

    

sidecar paul

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Teflon lined cables may be lubricated, but only with Duck oil; as I was told by Johnsons Cables, who make cables for most bikes.

Clutch cable barrel / nipple holder keeps dropping Sam_0213

No need to squeeze ducks, rossco, you can just buy this stuff. Twisted Evil

Paul.


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'84 K100RS (0014643) (owned since '85), 86 K100RS (0018891) with Martello sidecar (built as an outfit in '88),
'51 Vincent (since '67),'72 Montesa Cota (from new), '87 Honda RS125R NF4 (bought 2015) 
....No CARS never ever!
    

walfish

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Agree that the suggested fix will work, but, that to me is fixing the "symptom" and not the cause.

My theory is that you have a problem with the Clutch arm bearings or pin, which can be seized partially and not allow the spring to move the arm freely which leaves a bit of slack in the cable.

Suggest to remove Clutch arm, replace bearings and pin if worn, fit a grease nipple to the arm and assemble.

"Job done" cheers



Last edited by ungaas on Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:03 pm; edited 1 time in total


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Clutch cable barrel / nipple holder keeps dropping Uk-log10 88 K 100  0033026 
   
                            92 K 1100 LT  6455097
    

Inge K.

Inge K.
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+1.


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Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

robmack

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@sidecar paul wrote:Teflon lined cables may be lubricated, but only with Duck oil; as I was told by Johnsons Cables, who make cables for most bikes.

Clutch cable barrel / nipple holder keeps dropping Sam_0213

No need to squeeze ducks, rossco, you can just buy this stuff. Twisted Evil

Paul.

Wonder if this K-bike product is named after the famous owner and moderator of the Motobrick site? Smile


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Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

charlie99

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i think we have come accross this issue a couple of times

i think that replacing the clutch bar end nipple adaptor would be a good thing as they tend to wear at an odd angle over time and without lubrication. cheap at the usuall suppliers

but certainly make sure the rear end clutch arm bearings are well lubricated and smooth to operate as all have suggested .

i have had a brand new cable (of some years age before installation ) cramp up on me within a couple of weeks making the operation almost impossible .

"they "say that its teflon coated inside ...but to my way of thinking its just another disintegrating polly propolene liner ...well mine was ...lanoteck to the rescue


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%OClutch cable barrel / nipple holder keeps dropping Au-log10

'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
    

Motorandy123

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I know it's hearsay but I always lube my cables with RC car shock oil. It's
pure silicon so doesn't get gummy. My theory is the cable can oxidize and
grow in diameter and get stiff. By coating it that won't happen. I also use
Teflon grease on all the pivot points of the controls (even on a brand new
bike!).

I traded bikes with someone once and noticed a huge difference in smoothness
of the controls so I think it helps!

    

1987k100rt

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I replaced the cable end nipple holder when I replaced the cable this past year. I will take a look at the bearings in the back end and re lube. I used lithium grease on the nipple holder which helps it rotate freely in the lever. There is slight tension on the cable nipple when out but the constant action of pulling on the clutch allows the nipple holder to slide down slightly in the lever which may cause it to wear unevenly. The fix that was discussed earlier should keep the nipple holder from falling in the lever and causing the wear issue. It sounds like from this forum that there are two schools of thought on this problem. One is that the problem is my cable tension and or adjustment. Or the bearings down by the clutch. The other is that this is something that is inherent to this bike even though the cable is adjusted to spec in the book. I am looking to remedy the problem either way but just wanted clarification from those that may have tried this fix under the lever handle to see how it worked for them. Thanks again for the help

    

sidecar paul

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While I agree with Inge (and who would ever disagree? Clutch cable barrel / nipple holder keeps dropping 167893 ) and ungaas, that the clutch operating arm bearings and correct adjustment is important, it doesn't address the issue of the cable nipple holder not sitting centrally in the clutch handlebar lever. In most cases this doesn't cause any hassle, but in 1987K100rt's case it obviously does.

The problem, as I see it, is that the inner cable is not supported for about 50mm between the outer cable and the nipple holder. Gravity (thanks Issac) tends to allow the nipple holder to drop through the hole in the clutch lever and the inner cable just sags with no support.

Today I've had a look to see if I could come up with a simple way of supporting the inner cable which would hold the nipple holder in a more central position.

This is my solution after half an hours experimentation. Two 40mm long pieces of plastic tubing, one 4mm od, one 6mm od slit along their length and fitted over the inner cable.

Clutch cable barrel / nipple holder keeps dropping Sam_0214

Clutch cable barrel / nipple holder keeps dropping Sam_0215

The tubes, one over the other, then slide through the adjuster and support the inner cable right up to the clutch lever.

Well, there it is, and it's holding my nipple holder a couple of mm higher than it was this morning.cheers

Paul.


__________________________________________________
'84 K100RS (0014643) (owned since '85), 86 K100RS (0018891) with Martello sidecar (built as an outfit in '88),
'51 Vincent (since '67),'72 Montesa Cota (from new), '87 Honda RS125R NF4 (bought 2015) 
....No CARS never ever!
    

1987k100rt

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@sidecar paul wrote:While I agree with Inge (and who would ever disagree? Clutch cable barrel / nipple holder keeps dropping 167893 ) and ungaas, that the clutch operating arm bearings and correct adjustment is important, it doesn't address the issue of the cable nipple holder not sitting centrally in the clutch handlebar lever. In most cases this doesn't cause any hassle, but in 1987K100rt's case it obviously does.

The problem, as I see it, is that the inner cable is not supported for about 50mm between the outer cable and the nipple holder. Gravity (thanks Issac) tends to allow the nipple holder to drop through the hole in the clutch lever and the inner cable just sags with no support.

Today I've had a look to see if I could come up with a simple way of supporting the inner cable which would hold the nipple holder in a more central position.

Great Idea paul. The reason I want to get to the bottom of this is because the last clutch cable broke while riding last year and left me stranded on the side of the road. Under inspection after getting it home I found that the Nipple holder was encased in since petrified grease which caused the nipple holder to not rotate any more, But unknown to me, before that happened the nipple holder had worked it's way down in the hole and wore un-evenly which put a flat spot or "ovaled" the nipple holder. As Murphy law has it , the thing broke on me at the least favorable time. Learning from that experience and in an effort to keep this bike going a little longer down the road I am looking for a way to fix the dropping problem of the nipple holder so this new one and cable do not go the way of the last one. I was told not to lube this cable at all. I am only putting the lithium grease (white in color) on the nipple holder to keep it moving freely but it is still gravitating down in the hole. Still works ok but trying for preventative maintenance. Thanks again.

This is my solution after half an hours experimentation. Two 40mm long pieces of plastic tubing, one 4mm od, one 6mm od slit along their length and fitted over the inner cable.

Clutch cable barrel / nipple holder keeps dropping Sam_0214

Clutch cable barrel / nipple holder keeps dropping Sam_0215

The tubes, one over the other, then slide through the adjuster and support the inner cable right up to the clutch lever.

Well, there it is, and it's holding my nipple holder a couple of mm higher than it was this morning.cheers

Paul.

    

ReneZ

ReneZ
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I thought that for exactly that purpose the felt tubing was intended. However it wears over time and the barrel drops. I think the 'supporting the barrel' is a good fix for preventing issues of wear in the handle and potential breakdown en-route. Is it caused by the spring in the boot no longer keeping a minimal pull on the cable because of lacking lubrication or operation of the lever bearings - quite possible, but I still don't want to break down and its a 'creeping' problem. YMMV, but better safe than sorry?


__________________________________________________
Greetings from Florida! Having a 'new' K  :cyclops:    Surprised-o: 

Rene


BMW K100 - 1985 (0030029) Clutch cable barrel / nipple holder keeps dropping Rain
BMW K1200GT - 2003 (ZK01223)
    

gmcq

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My K1100 had been lying for about 5 years before I got it. Excitement over ruled prudence and I drove it home some 20 miles. The clutch required a hefty squeeze to operate and when I pulled up at the house smoke was coming out of the cable at the lever! Still using same cable with no problems since although replacement cable on the to do list.

Gerard


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1996 K1100LTIC 0235790
    

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