BMW K bikes (Bricks)

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ReneZ

ReneZ
Life time member
Life time member
The below is part of a travel update, but thought the technical part might be interesting meantime.

Day 7 - Friday - the Nuerenberg ring and a bit of the Mosel

Early in the trip, on a beautiful piece of road between Kronenburg and Stadkyll just 12 miles into the trip the engine suddenly died on me. No warning or strange sounds. Warning lights came on as if the bike was switched off. Pulled the coupling and tried to restart the still running bike, but no success. Stopped and switched on the alarm lights...... What now? Bike had been running great and no issues before we started our trip. New spark plugs, fuel, oil and air filters had been fitted and the bike was tanked full at the start of the day trip. Wrong fuel? But it looked and smelled OK when I filled it. Checking the tank gave no indication of wrong fuel...
Checked the spark plugs, which were dry and brownish, so OK. I could hear the fuel pump running, but the bike didn't pick up, sounded as if trying to start without fuel. Sometimes a very short start, but then nothing.

on-off-on starting problem - ignition module or hall sensors?? 00856832

I was on a small bit of busy road and didn't feel too safe!

I checked the seating of the ECU plug, the fuses were measured OK so no further basic information as to what was (not) going on. Luckily a friendly German bike rider (Peter) stopped and offered assistance. I speak the language a little bit, but possibly not enough to explain details to others and any help at that time was quite helpful, if only to keep a clear mind. Eventually I concluded I couldn't do anything further there and Peter stopped a local car (easy when areas are indicated in number plates!) and the driver could provide us with a local BMW dealership number. I was anxious about the possible cost of calling the dealership in but was not in a position to come up with suitable alternatives.

The dealership was a motorbike dealer out of Dahlem, previously official BMW, but now no longer so.

on-off-on starting problem - ignition module or hall sensors?? 00898048

The owner and his son-in-law are the mechanics and upon arrival a good discussion started as to the possible cause of our mishap.

We arrived around lunch time and the shop would close for an hour. We kindly got offered the use of a R1100R of the shop to use to get us to the local cafe. The bike had a bit of a problem (uneven running, holding in) but should be OK. We could have walked, but they must have known the sizes of cake on offer and it was good to have the bike to get us back Laughing .

on-off-on starting problem - ignition module or hall sensors?? 00903552

Upon return all spark plugs were removed and examined, all to be fine and dry. All the side fairing parts and innards were removed to allow easy access and for the tank to be removed when needed.

on-off-on starting problem - ignition module or hall sensors?? 00945792

The fuel pump was running OK, the fuel pressure was measured and a bit low at 2 Bar, but the injectors worked OK for the time the starter motor was running.
It was noted that the bike did not continuously start, even when the starter button was pressed longer. It just started for about 1-2 seconds, then halted for the same period and then the starter motor ran again for the same amount of time. The mechanics felt that the bike, even if it didn't start running should at least continuously run the starter motor for as long as the starter button was engaged, so it was felt there was an electrical issue causing the non running. They had some spare ECU's which we tried without success. It was then felt that it had to be the ignition module or the Hall sensors.

on-off-on starting problem - ignition module or hall sensors?? 00957696

Eventually an other bike (K100LT) was used to swap some parts from. Regretfully it was fitted out with other relays, so I couldn't try swapping the “load shedding relay” or other bits in the relay box.

on-off-on starting problem - ignition module or hall sensors?? 00970240

The first bit to try then was the injection module. It was build out of the K100LT and fitted on my K. When pressing the starter now we had continuous starter operation and it was felt we had found the problem. This was mid afternoon Friday and a new ignition module was needed. The new-price was checked and after picking myself up from the floor again I realised the man had indeed said close to 1000 Euro's. That wasn't going to happen, that's what I paid for the whole bike 5 years ago. Coffee was offered by the mechanics (good coffee too!!) and the thinking cap went on.

Being a bit of a hoarder on things K I knew I had a spare module at home and was contemplating how I was going to explain to my wife what it looked like and where to look in the garage to find it and then how to get it to us soonest ............. :pale: . Nah, that's wasn't going to happen.

The mechanics then called a motorcycle breaker in the area (Willie Werner in Stockheim) and were informed that they had 3 spare modules for 250 Euro each. I decided to bite the bullet (and do a lot more damage later Twisted Evil ) and take one. Meantime it was close to 17:00 and quick action needed to be taken. I got the R1150 to use again and received some directions with map prints on how to reach the breakers. It was explained how to get there as simple as possible as I was completely unfamiliar in the area. Distance was about 55-60 Km and staff would be there until 18:30 so I better had to move!

Even though the directions given were clear (take the B51 when you leave the village...) I noted that the road sign indicated the “1” and not the “B51”, so I carried on, expecting another crossroad/on-ramp. Nothing appeared and after some time I realised I had clearly missed the intended route. I had taken my SatNav off the bike and with me as I could imagine that this trip could give some issues. The loan-bike didn't have a bracket for a SatNav, so it stayed in the pocket. Occasional stopping and switching it on (didn't want to leave it on as I didn't know how long the battery would last and I needed to get back too!) eventually got me at the breakers at 18:35.... Luckily they had waited and I took one of the units and put my money down (rather painful event, but unavoidable).

Turned the bike around and returned to the garage in the same way. If I hadn't been under such stress/frustration/pressure/whatever it would have been a really enjoyable, beautiful trip, but as you'll appreciate no pictures were taken.

Upon return (19:30) the son was still at the workshop (great bloke!) and we quickly fitted the replacement unit, only to find out it showed the same issues as my original did. Some language was spoken by both the son and me which I won't repeat here!! He got seriously upset, so much so that he again dismantled the K100LT to remove the injection unit to check again and proved that unit allowed the starter motor to run continuously, contrary to the original and the now purchased second hand unit. Not good.

After some discussion it was decided that he would call the breakers the next morning (Saturday...) and try to get the other two units they had and we could take the loan bike to our B&B meantime. We agreed to have contact the next morning to discuss further. So off we went, no view on getting our bike on the road again shortly. Part of the problem was that it was now Friday evening and the ferry back to the UK was scheduled for the Sunday from Ijmuiden, which was still a fair distance away, so it only left us the Saturday to fix it. The B&B offered us all kinds of words of encouragement as well as some cold beers, so we didn't feel so sorry for ourselves later that evening. Cool

After a good night sleep (amazing, must have been the beer!) we called the workshop and heard that the son had gone to the breakers to take the other two units with him to try and if we could be there around 10:00 he would be back and we could try further.

When we arrived the son hadn't returned yet and we had a pleasant conversation about the facts of live and ours in detail... Meantime the father took another bike out of a storage that generated some interest as well!!

on-off-on starting problem - ignition module or hall sensors?? 00992256

Nice sound! (Once it had started and was running ;-))

The son arrived back and we quickly checked the modules. We found another one that allowed the bike to start continuously and thought we had the problem fixed. Fitted the unit properly in the bike and refitted the tank. Then, when we tried to start it, the starter motor continued to run, but the bike didn't start up. Tried it a few times, but no running. Again tried the other ECU's they had, but no success. This was definitely NOT a good day.

Meantime the K100LT had been picked-up and I understood from the conversation between the father and the owner of the bike that they had called the bike in to look at an ABS issue, but also to help our fault finding, and that the owner would not be charged for the service they carried out. Talking about proper support here! Still no price was discussed for their assistance, but I certainly had a good feeling about them.

But the bike did still not start and I had no other options there and then. Boat next day........ Evil or Very Mad .
I decided to ask the workshop team to bring me back to the B&B, some 20 miles down the road to consider my next move. There was nothing I could do further in the workshop anyway.

Once returned to the B&B I decided to exchange the Hall sensors for a spare set taken along as I felt it had something to do with the Injection Module circuit and the Hall sensors feed into that. I jury-rigged the spare sensors and pressed the starter button.

on-off-on starting problem - ignition module or hall sensors?? 01088896

The thing started right away and ran beautiful!!

on-off-on starting problem - ignition module or hall sensors?? 01095296

All in all I felt stupid for not attempting to exchange the Hall sensors earlier, as part of the injection system review, but I didn't have it with me at the workshop and therefore couldn't do it there. Should have brought it along the next day of course, but we felt we had found the cause in the doubtful ignition module. I have now found a post on the Dutch BMWK.NL forum of a similar issue (the on-off-on starting) which was resolved with only replacing the Hall sensors, so I will try the old module (brought home for 'sentimental' reasons) and see if it still works. To be continued!


__________________________________________________
Greetings from Florida! Having a 'new' K  :cyclops:    Surprised-o: 

Rene


BMW K100 - 1985 (0030029) on-off-on starting problem - ignition module or hall sensors?? Rain
BMW K1200GT - 2003 (ZK01223)
    

Inge K.

Inge K.
VIP
VIP


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

sidecar paul

sidecar paul
Life time member
Life time member
Nice story Rene, glad it had a happy ending.cheers

Hmm, maybe I should carry one as a spare.

Paul.


__________________________________________________
'84 K100RS (0014643) (owned since '85), 86 K100RS (0018891) with Martello sidecar (built as an outfit in '88),
'51 Vincent (since '67),'72 Montesa Cota (from new), '87 Honda RS125R NF4 (bought 2015) 
....No CARS never ever!
    

88

88
Life time member
Life time member
Great write up Rene.

It sounds like the guys at the workshop would be slapping their foreheads as hard as yourself at the news of the hall sensors being the problem on-off-on starting problem - ignition module or hall sensors?? 610153 on-off-on starting problem - ignition module or hall sensors?? 610153 and it's unfortunate that something you had the means to fix yourself ate up so much time (and cash). Seems like you didn't have a total "attitude failure" tho!

What are the 3 guages you have you got in the radio pocket?

88


__________________________________________________
on-off-on starting problem - ignition module or hall sensors?? Ir-log11 88....May contain nuts!on-off-on starting problem - ignition module or hall sensors?? Ir-log11

"The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page." - St. Augustine from 1600 years ago & still true!

K1100LT 1992 - AKA Big Red
K1100RS - 1995. AKA Rudolf Von Schmurf (in a million bits)
K1/RS - AKA Titan (unique hybrid by Andreas Esterhammer)
    

Crazy Frog

Crazy Frog
admin
admin
Good write up Rene and glad you made it to catch the boat.
You didn't tell us was was the cost of the labor.

This is too bad that you couldn't have your wife sending your spare parts.

I personally have all my spare parts stored in clear plastic bags and clearly identified. (electrical, clutch,......)
Each part is also identified with masking tape.
I case of problem, I could call my wife and ask her to check in the electrical bag for an aluminum square part labeled "EFI computer".
In fact, when going to a trip more than 400k away from home, I always have a spare EFI and one ignition computer + a set of Hall sensors.
Better to be safe than sorry Very Happy

CF


__________________________________________________
on-off-on starting problem - ignition module or hall sensors?? Frog15on-off-on starting problem - ignition module or hall sensors?? Logo2101986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML GT2 sidecar, 1999 K1200lt/Hannigan Astro Sport sidecar.
    

ReneZ

ReneZ
Life time member
Life time member
Team, thanks for the nice words! The workshop cost amounted to 130 Euro, which included the recovery of the bike and the delivery to the B&B and the use of the 'loan bike', which I considered very fair.

Being on a trip for two weeks with a pillion leaves little room to bring the workshop (or the indexed internet) with you, but I certainly like Bert's idea of keeping the spares clearly marked and more or less ready for dispatch. We still would have had the issue of timing, but it would make life easier on the mind. aside from my normal bike tools (among which stubby screwdrivers, a fuel hose clamp 'screwdriver' and a little ratchet set with sockets and bits as required and a multimeter), I had a hall sensor, fuel pressure regulator, fuel hose with clamps, clutch and throttle cable, an injector, electric wires, tie-raps, connectors, lights and more small bits (fuses). The only tool I needed from the workshop (for ease of use) was a 1/4 extension for the ratchet, which was some consolation in the process.

I appreciate Inge's link and no doubt everything that we can experience with our bikes has been written down somewhere in its 30 years life, but I thought it would help our other members here to share the experience and by doing so I have learned from you as well.

When your in the shit you're not too happy, but looking at it afterwards it was a good experience and discussing it here gives it even more value (to me certainly).

Now what do I need to bring to that Irish meet ........ Wink

The gauges fitted are a cooling water temperature and a volt one, the third is not in use (yet)

PS I will repair the Hall sensors as described elsewhere and keep it for spare with me from now Smile



Last edited by ReneZ on Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:10 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typos)


__________________________________________________
Greetings from Florida! Having a 'new' K  :cyclops:    Surprised-o: 

Rene


BMW K100 - 1985 (0030029) on-off-on starting problem - ignition module or hall sensors?? Rain
BMW K1200GT - 2003 (ZK01223)
    

Crazy Frog

Crazy Frog
admin
admin
Here is an old post on the content of a decent tool kit for the bike.

CF


__________________________________________________
on-off-on starting problem - ignition module or hall sensors?? Frog15on-off-on starting problem - ignition module or hall sensors?? Logo2101986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML GT2 sidecar, 1999 K1200lt/Hannigan Astro Sport sidecar.
    

88

88
Life time member
Life time member
@ReneZ wrote:
When your in the shit you're not too happy, ........ Wink

The gauges fitted are a cooling water temperature and a volt one, the third is not in use (yet)


Or as a mate of mine used to say.....
"when you're up to your ass in alligators it's hard to remember that the original objective was to drain the swamp"

Good use of the redundant radio pocket Rene, would you consider Oil Pressure for the 3rd?

88


__________________________________________________
on-off-on starting problem - ignition module or hall sensors?? Ir-log11 88....May contain nuts!on-off-on starting problem - ignition module or hall sensors?? Ir-log11

"The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page." - St. Augustine from 1600 years ago & still true!

K1100LT 1992 - AKA Big Red
K1100RS - 1995. AKA Rudolf Von Schmurf (in a million bits)
K1/RS - AKA Titan (unique hybrid by Andreas Esterhammer)
    

ReneZ

ReneZ
Life time member
Life time member
Hi 88, that was the intention, but when I looked into the detail I noted that it would require a bulky sensor, which would probably be better placed in/protected by a bit of fairing, which I haven't got (yet Very Happy ).


__________________________________________________
Greetings from Florida! Having a 'new' K  :cyclops:    Surprised-o: 

Rene


BMW K100 - 1985 (0030029) on-off-on starting problem - ignition module or hall sensors?? Rain
BMW K1200GT - 2003 (ZK01223)
    

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