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1Back to top Go down   Hot fuel pump Empty Hot fuel pump Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:55 pm

Adiwan Djohanli

Adiwan Djohanli
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Yesterday I tuned up my K100RS. After having the engine running stationary for around 30 minutes, the engine was suddenly slowing down fast and off.

I thought it was the battery but I found out it was the fuel pump stopped running and the fuel and the pump inside were very boiling hot. I believe the fuel pump is faulty.

A friend suggested to me to replace it with fuel pump for Peugot 405 series. He says that it is of the same diameter so it will fit into the holder nicely but a bit shorter than original.

Another friend has successfully replace the fuel pump with the unit used in Toyota Avanza (a small 1000cc / 1300cc SUV). This unit is smaller diameter than BMW original.

Tomorrow I am going to check the suggestion and I will update the result.

Good luck to me. Smile


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Adiwan Djohanli
Jakarta-Indonesia[i]
    

2Back to top Go down   Hot fuel pump Empty Re: Hot fuel pump Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:39 pm

nino

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Adiwan, check Opel pump. I think its almost identical to K pump

    

3Back to top Go down   Hot fuel pump Empty Re: Hot fuel pump Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:56 pm

Adiwan Djohanli

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Hi nino,

Thanks for your input. What type of Opel is it?

Regards


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Adiwan Djohanli
Jakarta-Indonesia[i]
    

4Back to top Go down   Hot fuel pump Empty Re: Hot fuel pump Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:25 pm

Comberjohn

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Peugeot 205 GTi is a straight swop. Done it myself.

http://www.johnsdrivingschool.co
    

5Back to top Go down   Hot fuel pump Empty Re: Hot fuel pump Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:46 pm

Adiwan Djohanli

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Hello Comberjohn,

Thanks for the advise.

Cheers.


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Adiwan Djohanli
Jakarta-Indonesia[i]
    

6Back to top Go down   Hot fuel pump Empty Re: Hot fuel pump Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:39 pm

nino

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I am not shure, but you can check Daewoo too, because models from ninethies are technicaly identical.

Regards

    

7Back to top Go down   Hot fuel pump Empty Re: Hot fuel pump Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:23 pm

charlie99

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the nipon denso out of any of the toyotas (efi models) should work well adiwan

i mounted mine some 30,000 ks ago or more and still going strong

had to modify the mount slightly and add a height retension strap , to stop the pump falling to the bottom of the tank . 51mm instead of the 52 mm bosch unit

a good choice as they only draw low current as well


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%OHot fuel pump Au-log10

'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
    

8Back to top Go down   Hot fuel pump Empty Re: Hot fuel pump Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:22 pm

krambo

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@Comberjohn wrote:Peugeot 205 GTi is a straight swop. Done it myself.

Apologies for my original reply to this post - having checked my records it turns out that I actually used the pump from a 1984/85 Peugeot 1.6 GTi, which was an exact "like for like" fit for my pump - sorry for any confusion Wink



Last edited by krambo on Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:05 pm; edited 2 times in total


__________________________________________________
1984 BMW K100RT, 1993 BMW K1100LTIC,1982 Kawasaki KZ1100 Spectre
"Aut viam inveniam aut faciam." Hot fuel pump Uk-bmw12
http://www.its-personal.net
    

9Back to top Go down   Hot fuel pump Empty Re: Hot fuel pump Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:29 pm

Crazy Frog

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I was looking at after market Peugeot 205 GTI fuel pump and found a company called Walbro selling one. Here is a Fleabay link.
Another aftermarket one is Sytec

It would be interesting to check these companies and see the specs for the pumps.

CF


__________________________________________________
Hot fuel pump Frog15Hot fuel pump Logo2101986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML GT2 sidecar, 1999 K1200lt/Hannigan Astro Sport sidecar.
    

10Back to top Go down   Hot fuel pump Empty Re: Hot fuel pump Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:36 pm

GerryP

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Hi Adiwan

Running an engine while stationary will heat the fuel in the tank from the heat generated by the engine running. Depends on how much fuel is in the tank to absorb the heat. Also on how hot the day was.

Hot fuel can then vaporise in the fuel rail causing the engine to cut out.

A good test is to let everything cool down and see if it runs normally then.

Do you have insulation fitted to the underside of the tank? Should be about 1cm thick felt-like material with aluminium foil on each side. Was standard on most K1100s.


__________________________________________________
Safe riding Cool,
Gerry Parnham


K1100LT (1993) in Silk Blue/Cream
http://gerryparnham.com
    

11Back to top Go down   Hot fuel pump Empty Re: Hot fuel pump Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:56 pm

krambo

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@Crazy Frog wrote:I was looking at after market Peugeot 205 GTI fuel pump and found a company called Walbro selling one. Here is a Fleabay link.
Another aftermarket one is Sytec

It would be interesting to check these companies and see the specs for the pumps.

CF

The one I used was for a 1984/85 Peugeot 1.6GTi and was, unlike the link above, an exact fit with the correct diameter etc. to fit our old ladies. The newer pump can be fitted but requires a fitting kit to make it fit the in tank recess etc. of our bikes. The job is certainly possible using the adaptor kit - use the search function of the forums for Fuel Pump replacements.


__________________________________________________
1984 BMW K100RT, 1993 BMW K1100LTIC,1982 Kawasaki KZ1100 Spectre
"Aut viam inveniam aut faciam." Hot fuel pump Uk-bmw12
http://www.its-personal.net
    

12Back to top Go down   Hot fuel pump Empty Re: Hot fuel pump Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:18 am

Adiwan Djohanli

Adiwan Djohanli
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I thank you all for the input, comment and advise.

The fuel tank has insulation with outer aluminium foil underneath it. During stationary running, the cooling fan was running on / off automatically. This is fine.

I found out the fuel pump was very hot and stop working. It may be a problem due to normal wear and tear considering the old age.

Later today I will check fuel pump of Peugot / Toyota and buy the best fit.

I shall update you with the result.

Cheers. Smile


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Adiwan Djohanli
Jakarta-Indonesia[i]
    

13Back to top Go down   Hot fuel pump Empty Re: Hot fuel pump Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:31 pm

japuentes

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@Adiwan Djohanli wrote:I thank you all for the input, comment and advise.

The fuel tank has insulation with outer aluminium foil underneath it. During stationary running, the cooling fan was running on / off automatically. This is fine.

I found out the fuel pump was very hot and stop working. It may be a problem due to normal wear and tear considering the old age.

Later today I will check fuel pump of Peugot / Toyota and buy the best fit.

I shall update you with the result.

Cheers. Smile
Hi, the tank insulation reduces the heat transfer thru the bottom, but on these bikes the returning fuel hose's path may cause the fuel to get very hot, so when it reaches the tank all the fuel will get hot, to the point that when traveling by the injection system it may boil forming bubbles that will restrict the flow causing power loss and eventually an engine shut off. This may happens specially with the engine at idle on hot climates.
The solution I found is to isolate the fuel hoses and change the returning fuel hose's path.
Hope this helps
Best regards
JAP


__________________________________________________
Hot fuel pump 2854237993 1988 K100RS SE/ABS
    

14Back to top Go down   Hot fuel pump Empty Hot fuel pump Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:56 pm

RT

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Good point JAP, my return hose is running through between Number 1 and 2 throttle bodies, I've been meaning to re reroute it but haven't done so yet, might be time as I have to put a new fuel pump in myself.

Good luck Adiwan
RT


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2011 R1200RT
    

15Back to top Go down   Hot fuel pump Empty Re: Hot fuel pump Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:00 pm

charlie99

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bob to eliminate heat ...between 1 and 2 is good ....ex factory they travel along the back of the radiator ..which im sure is fine when snow is around or even cooler climates ,,,but for us folks ...in the 30s and higher ...big issue is keeping it cool ...


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%OHot fuel pump Au-log10

'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
    

16Back to top Go down   Hot fuel pump Empty Re: Hot fuel pump Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:57 pm

Adiwan Djohanli

Adiwan Djohanli
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Hello guys,

Thanks again for the advises. Everyday I learn new things here. I haven't bought a new fuel pump yet due to work load.But I will do it over the week end at the latest.

Cheers.


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Adiwan Djohanli
Jakarta-Indonesia[i]
    

17Back to top Go down   Hot fuel pump Empty Hot fuel pump Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:41 am

RT

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Hey Adiwan
it must be pretty hot over there most of the year, how does your engine cope. Ever have actual overheating problems? (apart from the fuel pump at the moment).
Just wondering, as we all complain here but we live in a milder climate compared to you.

Thanks
RT


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2011 R1200RT
    

18Back to top Go down   Hot fuel pump Empty Re: Hot fuel pump Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:28 pm

Adiwan Djohanli

Adiwan Djohanli
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Hi RT,

I do not have engine overheating here. The temperature is around 35 degrees C. Bearing in mind, I have cleaned the whole water cooling system (radiator, engine, etc).

I use chemical cleaning. Put in the chemical into radiator, run for about 10 minutes. Discharge it and rinse twice with fresh water. Finally fill in the radiator with fresh water.

The chemicals is descaler which I formulate and produce myself.

Hot fuel pump Img_0210[/url][/img]

Hot fuel pump Img_0211[/url][/img]

The most common cause of overheating is scale inside the cooling water system, considering the bike is old.

Cheers.


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Adiwan Djohanli
Jakarta-Indonesia[i]
    

19Back to top Go down   Hot fuel pump Empty Re: Hot fuel pump Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:51 pm

Adiwan Djohanli

Adiwan Djohanli
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Hello Guys,

I bought a new fuel pump, was advice by the shop that it is for Peugot 206 / 306 late model (??). It is Bosch 0 580 453 453, diameter 40mm, made in germany, costs USD 25. Here is the picture. The 2 green tubes are sleeves to hold it into the brown bracket.
Hot fuel pump 00210

After assemble I fitted the pump back.
Hot fuel pump 00410

I started the bike, run stationary well for about 10 minutes. Then I rode it for about 30 minutes 60 - 80 km/h. On my return I notice the fuel tank was warn. Thanks again for the advise.

I will ride the bike again for longer time in the next days. I believe the fuel supply shall be sufficient with the new pump now.

Cheers.


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Adiwan Djohanli
Jakarta-Indonesia[i]
    

20Back to top Go down   Hot fuel pump Empty Re: Hot fuel pump Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:53 pm

charlie99

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adiwan ...there is normally a rubber boot that connects to the bracket you have pictured ....the rubber usually suports the pump ...(a noise and vibration damper i guess )

the rubber perishes over time, i wonder if it has been remooved on purpose ?

Hot fuel pump Pictur20


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%OHot fuel pump Au-log10

'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
    

21Back to top Go down   Hot fuel pump Empty Re: Hot fuel pump Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:14 pm

Inge K.

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To add to Charlie picture, ........single parts..

Hot fuel pump 666px-10

Could also be a good idea to put a sieve to the bottom of the pump.


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Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

22Back to top Go down   Hot fuel pump Empty Re: Hot fuel pump Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:26 pm

Comberjohn

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Hi Adiwan.
I noticed earlier in your thread you mentioned flushing out the cooling system and refilling with fresh water.
Maybe you, or some of our more technical brethren, can correct me, but I was always told that a water/glycol mix was essential for lubricating certain components in an aluminium engine. Water pump, thermostat, etc.
Suppose its unlikely that your engine will freeze though!

Ref the photo Inge just posted.
The pump I used was identical to the original was supposed to be from a 1.9 GTi and had an aluminium gauze filter on the bottom of the pump. A much stronger job than the nylon one on the original pump.
Cost £10/$16 on flea bay.

http://www.johnsdrivingschool.co
    

23Back to top Go down   Hot fuel pump Empty Re: Hot fuel pump Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:44 pm

Inge K.

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@Comberjohn wrote:but I was always told that a water/glycol mix was essential for lubricating certain components in an aluminium engine. Water pump, thermostat, etc.

+1.

And the glykol also contains corrosion inhibitors, which degrades over time.....
which is the the reason to that the coolant should be changed every two year.

And tap water should not be used as it causes deposits in the cooling system.....
it should be demineralized water.


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

24Back to top Go down   Hot fuel pump Empty Re: Hot fuel pump Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:01 am

Adiwan Djohanli

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There is no rubber boot in my bike. I believe it is lost somehow. I must find a replacement.

Regarding cooling water / liquid, being in tropical climate, we do not need glycol in cooling system. Demineralized water shall be sufficient. You must have glycol as anti freezing agent in your system for cold countries.

Cheers.


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Adiwan Djohanli
Jakarta-Indonesia[i]
    

25Back to top Go down   Hot fuel pump Empty Re: Hot fuel pump Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:07 am

RicK G

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Glycol also lets the heat transfer more quickly so in a hot climate you also need it because it makes for better cooling and the anticorosion properties are also needed as the corosion will happen quicker in a warm climate so you need to protect the engine just as much in a hot climate as in a cold one.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 2004 K1200GT 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki
    

26Back to top Go down   Hot fuel pump Empty Re: Hot fuel pump Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:06 am

japuentes

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@Adiwan Djohanli wrote:There is no rubber boot in my bike. I believe it is lost somehow. I must find a replacement.

Regarding cooling water / liquid, being in tropical climate, we do not need glycol in cooling system. Demineralized water shall be sufficient. You must have glycol as anti freezing agent in your system for cold countries.

Cheers.
Hi there, I have to disagree
As far as I know, demineralized water, alone, is a very corrosive substance. Mixed with the antifreeze is very good but alone no. Demineralized water can be a part of the cooling fluid.
If you dont want to use the antifreeze, use mineral water (bottled water) or tap water on an emergency, but not using aditives is a bad practice.
Antifreeze has the glycol and the aditives required to protect from corrosion and scales and lubricate the system, it also increases boiling temperature.
I use it with bottled water, as we at the tropics dont need too much anti freezing protection use it at the lowest concentration recomended by the maker.
Hope this helps
Best regards
JAP


__________________________________________________
Hot fuel pump 2854237993 1988 K100RS SE/ABS
    

27Back to top Go down   Hot fuel pump Empty Re: Hot fuel pump Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:09 am

Adiwan Djohanli

Adiwan Djohanli
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Hello Jap,

The quality of water for cooling system is important. Bottled (drinking) water contains minerals. These minerals can cause scale which will insulate the heat transfer from engine to the heat carrier (cooling liquid/water). Therefore demineralized water is the second best. The best shall be distilled water.

The corrosion happens due to oxygen in water and acidity (pH <7). Neutral condition, pH = 7 is the best, however a slight alkalinity ids preferred. A simple and cheap additives against corrosion is caustic soda (very strong alkali). a tiny amount say 10-30ppm is enough to protect against corrosion. there are many other types of chemicals can be used for corrosion inhibitor such as amine compound, but I shall not too technical in chemistry.
Bearing in mind the quality of water must be checked.

I do hope the above shall be a useful information.

Cheers.


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Adiwan Djohanli
Jakarta-Indonesia[i]
    

28Back to top Go down   Hot fuel pump Empty Re: Hot fuel pump Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:25 pm

BadjerJim

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@Inge K. wrote:
@Comberjohn wrote:but I was always told that a water/glycol mix was essential for lubricating certain components in an aluminium engine. Water pump, thermostat, etc.

+1.

And the glykol also contains corrosion inhibitors, which degrades over time.....
which is the the reason to that the coolant should be changed every two year.

And tap water should not be used as it causes deposits in the cooling system.....
it should be demineralized water.

Side note: Modern anti-freeze for our bikes is glycol based, but also contains corrosion inhibitors, as mentioned above. It must be mixed, 50/50 with DISTILLED water.

IF you use anything but distilled water, the special corrosion inhibitors 'mistake' the trace minerals in the water as 'corrosion' - and instantly bond to them. Thus instantly decreases the life of the corrosion inhibitors down... in some cases to zero. Just by mixing the anti-freeze with tap water or mineral water or anything but distilled water!

Back when I was a magazine writer, I did quite a bit of research on this for an article, and learned a lot. As a result of the published article, Yamaha immediately revised their service intervals for their liquid-cooled motorcycles.

    

29Back to top Go down   Hot fuel pump Empty Re: Hot fuel pump Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:39 pm

Avenger GT

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I use water from a dehumidifier mixed with antifreeze, seems to work OK. I have used it for years in cars. It also works very well in the screen washer as there are no minerals in it, so you don't get limescale to block the jets. I can't use the tap water as it is slightly acidic and eats aluminium.

    

30Back to top Go down   Hot fuel pump Empty Re: Hot fuel pump Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:04 am

K75cster

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distilled or demineralized ??? I thought it was de ionized water they used in the thermal power industry that was the best water to get, possibly only thing left in the water by then is the wet feel. So me plumbs for the deionized water as a base additive


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Keith - 1987 K75c with r100rt replica fairing and half of a 1984 K100rt 1992 K1100LT a blue one

The Clever are adept at extricating themselves from situations that the wise would have avoided from the outset - QUOTE from david Hillel in Out of the Earth.
    

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