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1Back to top Go down   Hot brakes Empty Hot brakes Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:54 pm

sidecar paul

sidecar paul
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Earlier this year I fitted a new EBC floating disc with EBC sintered pads to the back of the outfit. Consequently, the back brake has improved beyond all expectations; so much so that I have been braking hard just for the pleasure of feeling the retardation. I soon noticed that the disc was turning a nice shade of blue, fading to light straw at the rim. Ahah, it must be dragging, thought I, but no, in fact the wheel spins freer than it ever has in the past.

Now with all this braking energy, considering the extra weight of an outfit, the resulting heat must be going somewhere, and when I changed the back tyre recently this is what I found:-

Hot brakes Sam_0414

That caliper has been getting pretty hot.

No problems with fade or fluid boiling so far, but I am keeping an eye on things.

Paul.


__________________________________________________
'84 K100RS (0014643) (owned since '85), 86 K100RS (0018891) with Martello sidecar (built as an outfit in '88),
'51 Vincent (since '67),'72 Montesa Cota (from new), '87 Honda RS125R NF4 (bought 2015) 
....No CARS never ever!
    

2Back to top Go down   Hot brakes Empty Re: Hot brakes Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:57 pm

Inge K.

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Shocked wow!


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Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

3Back to top Go down   Hot brakes Empty Re: Hot brakes Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:02 pm

Crazy Frog

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My brother put an EBC disk and brake pad on his RT, and a month later, he had to replace it.
Same problem, the disk was overheating and warped.

Sorry for the bad news, but I believe that it's a design flaw. If it was the same problem on a computer, Microsoft would call this a 'feature' Sad


CF


__________________________________________________
Hot brakes Frog15Hot brakes Logo2101986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML GT2 sidecar, 1999 K1200lt/Hannigan Astro Sport sidecar.
    

4Back to top Go down   Hot brakes Empty Re: Hot brakes Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:12 pm

sidecar paul

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Was your brother's a floating disc CF?


__________________________________________________
'84 K100RS (0014643) (owned since '85), 86 K100RS (0018891) with Martello sidecar (built as an outfit in '88),
'51 Vincent (since '67),'72 Montesa Cota (from new), '87 Honda RS125R NF4 (bought 2015) 
....No CARS never ever!
    

5Back to top Go down   Hot brakes Empty Re: Hot brakes Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:26 pm

Crazy Frog

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@sidecar paul wrote:Was your brother's a floating disc CF?

I am not sure. This is what EBC sold as a replacement for a 1985 back brake.


__________________________________________________
Hot brakes Frog15Hot brakes Logo2101986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML GT2 sidecar, 1999 K1200lt/Hannigan Astro Sport sidecar.
    

6Back to top Go down   Hot brakes Empty Re: Hot brakes Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:34 pm

sidecar paul

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Probably a solid disc then.

One of EBC's claims for the floaters is that they are less prone to warping. Anyway no problems for me with warping........so far. We'll see how it goes.

Paul.


__________________________________________________
'84 K100RS (0014643) (owned since '85), 86 K100RS (0018891) with Martello sidecar (built as an outfit in '88),
'51 Vincent (since '67),'72 Montesa Cota (from new), '87 Honda RS125R NF4 (bought 2015) 
....No CARS never ever!
    

7Back to top Go down   Hot brakes Empty Re: Hot brakes Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:40 pm

charlie99

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good info paul thanks .

but it kinda makes sence, better braking means the extra heat generated is absorbed somewhere huh ?

im guessing the new disc is not stainless or a different variation of the original ?


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%OHot brakes Au-log10

'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
    

8Back to top Go down   Hot brakes Empty Re: Hot brakes Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:12 am

the.postman

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Floating discs will run much hotter especially on heavier bikes because much less heat transfer to the wheel hub.

Floating rotor discs aren't necessarily less prone to warping than their
solid counterparts, but they may be more so because heat can't transfer
away from the disc surface and through the carrier as easily. The
reason that fully-floating rotors exhibit fewer warpage symptoms is that
the pretensioning springs allow for a bit of flex between the disc and
carrier. As such, a fully-floating rotor would need to be very badly
warped to exhibit symptoms of warping.

Read more: Motorcycle Floating Brake Rotors Vs. Solid Mounted | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/info_12040134_motorcycle-floating-brake-rotors-vs-solid-mounted.html#ixzz2HYf6gU1U


__________________________________________________
1985 K100 RS   104EA49840092        #0081788     SILVERish (Madison) Prod. date 05/12/84
1984 srx 600
1986 cbr1000f/h
    

9Back to top Go down   Hot brakes Empty Re: Hot brakes Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:58 pm

sidecar paul

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Hi Charlie, I've just looked at EBC's site and the disc is "forged billet steel".

Surface rust does appear, but not much more than the "stainless" Grimeca front discs that I have, and certainly not as bad as cast iron discs.

A good brake is my primary concern, so I'll put up with the odd melted plastic cover provided no other problems crop up. Maybe I'll make a stainless cover at some stage.

Paul.

Hope you're keeping cool. sunny......we're trying to keep warm.


__________________________________________________
'84 K100RS (0014643) (owned since '85), 86 K100RS (0018891) with Martello sidecar (built as an outfit in '88),
'51 Vincent (since '67),'72 Montesa Cota (from new), '87 Honda RS125R NF4 (bought 2015) 
....No CARS never ever!
    

10Back to top Go down   Hot brakes Empty Re: Hot brakes Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:18 pm

K-BIKE

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Aha the magic word billet I recall looking through a friend's HD accessories catalogue and just about any metallic object had the word billet added to the description as if it were a mark of quality Very Happy An interesting thought about the ability to transfer heat being greated with soldi rotors rather than the bobbins, I had not thought about that previously but it sound totally logical.

One thing I have never understood was the fashion for sculpted rotors which have big chunks nibbled out of the periphery all the way round, it seems counter intuitive to me since although it reduces unsprung weight marginally, it reduces braking ability a definitely negative trade-off in my book. Happy to be corrected if anyone knows a technical reason for sculpted rotors on a road bike.
Regards,
K-BIKE

    

11Back to top Go down   Hot brakes Empty Re: Hot brakes Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:36 pm

RicK G

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when I was drag racing and winning most of the time if I had changed the anodized fittings from red to blue most of the other competitors would follow suit. It is very easy to make something that is totally useless into a must have item with the right advertising. All the numpties will follow along and throw the money at you and tell every body they come across how good said useless item is and the more they pay the better it is.
As my sponsor used to say Viva la mug


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki
    

12Back to top Go down   Hot brakes Empty Re: Hot brakes Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:57 pm

Crazy Frog

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@K-BIKE wrote:One thing I have never understood was the fashion for sculpted rotors which have big chunks nibbled out of the periphery all the way round......
K-BIKE

The only new development on break that I was impressed with was on the Buell.
I never tried one, but it certainly look good on paper: Big contact surface increasing the breaking power and heat dissipation. It must be way better than the sculpted rotors.

Hot brakes 09_1125cr_frontwheel


__________________________________________________
Hot brakes Frog15Hot brakes Logo2101986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML GT2 sidecar, 1999 K1200lt/Hannigan Astro Sport sidecar.
    

13Back to top Go down   Hot brakes Empty Re: Hot brakes Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:02 am

rosskko

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@K-BIKE wrote:One thing I have never understood was the fashion for sculpted rotors which have big chunks nibbled out of the periphery all the way round, it seems counter intuitive to me since although it reduces unsprung weight marginally, it reduces braking ability a definitely negative trade-off in my book. Happy to be corrected if anyone knows a technical reason for sculpted rotors on a road bike.
Regards,
K-BIKE

Never thought about it before but it would increase the surface area of the outer rim of the disc and possibly increase the cooling capacity?
Warranted on a road bike?
Probably aesthetics.


__________________________________________________
1986 K100RT VIN 0093801K100RT with summer fairing for a northern visitor

Basic/2 6308802K100CJ  05/1988

K1100RS 0194321
    

14Back to top Go down   Hot brakes Empty Re: Hot brakes Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:04 pm

sidecar paul

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Yes K bike, "billet" is used as to infer magic properties in some catalogues, but it's really a good Old English word, derived, via French, from mediaeval Latin. It originally meant a block of wood, but later was applied to blocks of metal, so any thing that is produced from a solid block is quite entitled to be refered to as billet.

Paul.


__________________________________________________
'84 K100RS (0014643) (owned since '85), 86 K100RS (0018891) with Martello sidecar (built as an outfit in '88),
'51 Vincent (since '67),'72 Montesa Cota (from new), '87 Honda RS125R NF4 (bought 2015) 
....No CARS never ever!
    

15Back to top Go down   Hot brakes Empty Re: Hot brakes Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:58 pm

Themason

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[quote="K-BIKE"]One thing I have never understood was the fashion for sculpted rotors which have big chunks nibbled out of the periphery all the way round, it seems counter intuitive to me since although it reduces unsprung weight marginally, it reduces braking ability a definitely negative trade-off in my book. Happy to be corrected if anyone knows a technical reason for sculpted rotors on a road bike.
Regards,
K-BIKE
[/quote]

I asked the same thing of Sandro, the President of Galfer USA. The multitude of edges cleans the pads, disperses dust and water and improves cooling. It is also lighter. There is some good engineering behind them.



Last edited by Themason on Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:02 am; edited 1 time in total


__________________________________________________
I live in a parallel universe but have a vacation home in reality :arrow:

1984 K-100RS Alaska Blue w/Parelever and 16V wheels.

1984 K-100RS Metallic Madison stock

1986 R-80G/S w/1000 cc engine

2007 Harley Davidson Street Rod Mirage Orange w/XR1200 wheels, Race Tech, True Track, Works Performance shocks

2007 Harley Davidson Street Rod Vivid Black stock

1993-ish K-100/1100RT/LT hemaphrodite frankenbike thingy to be painted satin black from a rattle can eventually
    

16Back to top Go down   Hot brakes Empty Re: Hot brakes Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:02 pm

Themason

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If you have a rear rotor overheating like that, I would investigate the orifice in the rear master cylinder. Over time fung will accumulate in the orifice and this restricts the ability of the piston to return, allowing the pads to drag on the rotor and overheat it. Take the piston out of the rear master cylinder and clean it thoroughly. Run some small guage wire through the orifice and blow it out to ensure it is open.

The other place to look is the rear brake reservoir. You have to leave some air in the top to permit fluid expansion when everything back there warms up. If you fill the reservoir to the very top and screw the lid on tight, as you ride and things warm up, fluid expansion causes the rear pads to engage. If you leave some room in the reservoir, the fluid can expand into the empty space in the reservoir.


__________________________________________________
I live in a parallel universe but have a vacation home in reality :arrow:

1984 K-100RS Alaska Blue w/Parelever and 16V wheels.

1984 K-100RS Metallic Madison stock

1986 R-80G/S w/1000 cc engine

2007 Harley Davidson Street Rod Mirage Orange w/XR1200 wheels, Race Tech, True Track, Works Performance shocks

2007 Harley Davidson Street Rod Vivid Black stock

1993-ish K-100/1100RT/LT hemaphrodite frankenbike thingy to be painted satin black from a rattle can eventually
    

17Back to top Go down   Hot brakes Empty Re: Hot brakes Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:06 pm

Themason

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@Crazy Frog wrote:
@K-BIKE wrote:One thing I have never understood was the fashion for sculpted rotors which have big chunks nibbled out of the periphery all the way round......
K-BIKE

The only new development on break that I was impressed with was on the Buell.
I never tried one, but it certainly look good on paper: Big contact surface increasing the breaking power and heat dissipation. It must be way better than the sculpted rotors.

Hot brakes 09_1125cr_frontwheel

In the Harley Davidson Museum there was a display of prototypes that never made production. Among the bikes displayed was a V-4 Nova sport bike circa 1982 with perimeter braking. That is how old the idea is.

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/newsandupdates/motorcycle_news/122_1109_harley_davidson_museum/

Audi's infamous "UFO Brakes" were another attempt at perimeter brakes.

http://www.spannerhead.com/2011/10/21/technical-curiosities-audis-ufo-brakes/

Ghezzi and Brian, an Italian race shop that specialzes in road racing Moto Guzzis and hot street Guzzis offered bikes with dual perimeter brakes and an under the engine muffler just like Buell uses, only they considerably pre-dated Buell with these features.

Hot brakes Kimera07


__________________________________________________
I live in a parallel universe but have a vacation home in reality :arrow:

1984 K-100RS Alaska Blue w/Parelever and 16V wheels.

1984 K-100RS Metallic Madison stock

1986 R-80G/S w/1000 cc engine

2007 Harley Davidson Street Rod Mirage Orange w/XR1200 wheels, Race Tech, True Track, Works Performance shocks

2007 Harley Davidson Street Rod Vivid Black stock

1993-ish K-100/1100RT/LT hemaphrodite frankenbike thingy to be painted satin black from a rattle can eventually
    

18Back to top Go down   Hot brakes Empty Re: Hot brakes Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:15 pm

K-BIKE

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Thanks guys,
Most interesting I love the look of the Guzzi if only it was red.
Regards,
K-BIKE

    

19Back to top Go down   Hot brakes Empty Re: Hot brakes Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:24 am

blaKey

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"...if only it was red"

K-BIKE clearly is a man of good taste!

Who cares if the perimeter brakes offer better performance or not, the just look damn hot!


__________________________________________________
Neil
K100RS 1986 RED!

Dress for the ride and the potential slide.
    

20Back to top Go down   Hot brakes Empty Re: Hot brakes Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:26 pm

sidecar paul

sidecar paul
Life time member
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I've got 'perimeter' brakes on my bicycle.Very Happy

With sleet and snow in the air this morning, I sorted out an old caliper and made a stainless steel caliper cover. Now that shouldn't melt......Rolling Eyes

Hot brakes Sam_0415

Paul.


__________________________________________________
'84 K100RS (0014643) (owned since '85), 86 K100RS (0018891) with Martello sidecar (built as an outfit in '88),
'51 Vincent (since '67),'72 Montesa Cota (from new), '87 Honda RS125R NF4 (bought 2015) 
....No CARS never ever!
    

21Back to top Go down   Hot brakes Empty Re: Hot brakes Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:36 pm

Inge K.

Inge K.
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Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

22Back to top Go down   Hot brakes Empty Re: Hot brakes Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:42 pm

walfish

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Spot weld some fins on that will make a self cooling heatsink. Neat job.


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Hot brakes Uk-log10 88 K 100  0033026 
   
                            92 K 1100 LT  6455097
    

23Back to top Go down   Hot brakes Empty Re: Hot brakes Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:12 pm

88

88
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🆒


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Hot brakes Ir-log11 88....May contain nuts!Hot brakes Ir-log11

"The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page." - St. Augustine from 1600 years ago & still true!

K1100LT 1992 - AKA Big Red
K1100RS - 1995. AKA Rudolf Von Schmurf (in a million bits)
K1/RS - AKA Titan (unique hybrid by Andreas Esterhammer)
    

24Back to top Go down   Hot brakes Empty Re: Hot brakes Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:13 pm

Crazy Frog

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Do you get satisfaction now? Very Happy

Hot brakes Rolling


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Hot brakes Frog15Hot brakes Logo2101986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML GT2 sidecar, 1999 K1200lt/Hannigan Astro Sport sidecar.
    

25Back to top Go down   Hot brakes Empty Re: Hot brakes Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:28 pm

sidecar paul

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OK, OK, I'll "Paint it Black" to your "Satisfaction"

A rolling stone gathers................momentum. (MAD magazine circa 1958)

Paul.


__________________________________________________
'84 K100RS (0014643) (owned since '85), 86 K100RS (0018891) with Martello sidecar (built as an outfit in '88),
'51 Vincent (since '67),'72 Montesa Cota (from new), '87 Honda RS125R NF4 (bought 2015) 
....No CARS never ever!
    

26Back to top Go down   Hot brakes Empty Re: Hot brakes Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:30 pm

Inge K.

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Hot brakes 112350


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Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

27Back to top Go down   Hot brakes Empty Re: Hot brakes Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:05 am

Themason

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But did you check to make sure the master cylinder orifice is open so the piston can return and allow the pads to back off the rotor fully???


__________________________________________________
I live in a parallel universe but have a vacation home in reality :arrow:

1984 K-100RS Alaska Blue w/Parelever and 16V wheels.

1984 K-100RS Metallic Madison stock

1986 R-80G/S w/1000 cc engine

2007 Harley Davidson Street Rod Mirage Orange w/XR1200 wheels, Race Tech, True Track, Works Performance shocks

2007 Harley Davidson Street Rod Vivid Black stock

1993-ish K-100/1100RT/LT hemaphrodite frankenbike thingy to be painted satin black from a rattle can eventually
    

28Back to top Go down   Hot brakes Empty Re: Hot brakes Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:30 pm

sidecar paul

sidecar paul
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Read my first post, THEY ARE FREE.


__________________________________________________
'84 K100RS (0014643) (owned since '85), 86 K100RS (0018891) with Martello sidecar (built as an outfit in '88),
'51 Vincent (since '67),'72 Montesa Cota (from new), '87 Honda RS125R NF4 (bought 2015) 
....No CARS never ever!
    

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