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1Back to top Go down   Valve Clearences Empty Valve Clearences on Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:39 am

twincarb

twincarb
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I know this has been covered before but can't find where it was mentioned...

When adjusting the valve clearences the book specifies 0.15 - 0.20 for Intake and 0.25 - 0.30 for exhaust.

Which way round is the ideal as in which clearance is the more ideal for running....

Just to show what I found earlier on my engine.

Intake .127 .203.127 .152
Exhaust .254 .229 .279 .229


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BMW K100LT 1988 Matt Black Peugeot Electra Blue (ELX) Colour is now confirmed...
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2Back to top Go down   Valve Clearences Empty Re: Valve Clearences on Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:08 pm

diyanich

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Hi,I am wondering if you had checked this one out before.Have a look.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFkPnLVkxWQ

    

3Back to top Go down   Valve Clearences Empty Re: Valve Clearences on Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:17 pm

twincarb

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Yeah I have seen that video... it shows very clearly how to check the valves, I wish I had a bike stand to raise the height up!

I recall there is an ideal of having the intakes tight and exhausts loose...

But as he says in the video loose is good on both...

Either way I have 2 intake and 2 exhaust valve clearances that are tight.

So the plan is to whip them all out and measure them to see if I can swap them around! Just need to find some 5mm Steel to make the tool...


__________________________________________________
BMW K100LT 1988 Matt Black Peugeot Electra Blue (ELX) Colour is now confirmed...
Yamaha Thundercat
Triumph Spitfire (not a bike but hell it's British chaps)
Valve Clearences 169042 Valve Clearences 169034
    

4Back to top Go down   Valve Clearences Empty Re: Valve Clearences on Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:04 pm

mike d

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I can't remember if you are a UK BMW Club member?

If so we have the tools in the Club's Tool Hire facility.

Mike

    

5Back to top Go down   Valve Clearences Empty Re: Valve Clearences on Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:16 pm

twincarb

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Hi Mike,

Yeah I am a member..... was thinking about giving the "Tool Holder" a PM Very Happy Just racking my brain as to whether we have some off cuts in work that I could make one from......

You may recieve a PM shortly lol!


__________________________________________________
BMW K100LT 1988 Matt Black Peugeot Electra Blue (ELX) Colour is now confirmed...
Yamaha Thundercat
Triumph Spitfire (not a bike but hell it's British chaps)
Valve Clearences 169042 Valve Clearences 169034
    

6Back to top Go down   Valve Clearences Empty Re: Valve Clearences on Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:28 pm

mike d

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Go for it!

The tools are currently available, so could post first thing Tuesday morning. For our antipodean friends we have a bank holiday in the UK, so Monday is (for most) a day off! cheers

Mike

    

7Back to top Go down   Valve Clearences Empty Re: Valve Clearences on Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:41 pm

twincarb

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Most people but not all of us are going to be off Sad

The plan is.... Tomorrow I am going to whip off the camshafts and measure each of the shims... see if I can bring any into spec... That will give royal mail a chance to deliver the tools and means Tuesday morning I can phone BMW and order the shims that I need.

Looking at the numbers I have I don't think that I am going to be able to get them all in spec just by swapping them around Sad

That will give me a chance to let you know Mike if I need to hire the tools as well.

I need to take the camshaft cover off anyhow as there is a minute weep from the top of it! Can't have used enough instant gasket stuff the last time!


__________________________________________________
BMW K100LT 1988 Matt Black Peugeot Electra Blue (ELX) Colour is now confirmed...
Yamaha Thundercat
Triumph Spitfire (not a bike but hell it's British chaps)
Valve Clearences 169042 Valve Clearences 169034
    

8Back to top Go down   Valve Clearences Empty Re: Valve Clearences on Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:54 pm

RicK G

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Kawasaki use the same shims in many of their older bikes so you may not have to pay the BMW price depending on where you are situated in relation to dealers.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

9Back to top Go down   Valve Clearences Empty Re: Valve Clearences on Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:34 am

twincarb

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I have taken all the measurements now and know what shims I am going to replace. As can be seen below.... It shows what the final clearances should be.... I know the ideal is to have them all identical... this is possible on the Exhaust side but the Intake side isn't going to be so easy... Should I take the intakes so they are tighter which means I need to change the size shim on cylinder 2 and 4 or should I maintain them as shown below with a looser fit?

Exhaust Intake
Current Gap Current Shim New Shim New Gap Cyl No Current GapCurrent Shim New Shim New Gap
0.279 2.55 2.55 0.2790
1
0.127 2.55 2.5 0.1770
0.279 2.55 2.50.2790
2
0.203 2.55 2.55 0.2030
0.279 2.55 2.55 0.2790
3
0.1272.6 2.55 0.1770
0.279 2.55 2.5 0.2790
4
0.1522.6 2.55 0.2020


__________________________________________________
BMW K100LT 1988 Matt Black Peugeot Electra Blue (ELX) Colour is now confirmed...
Yamaha Thundercat
Triumph Spitfire (not a bike but hell it's British chaps)
Valve Clearences 169042 Valve Clearences 169034
    

10Back to top Go down   Valve Clearences Empty Re: Valve Clearences on Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:05 pm

twincarb

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Right quick update.... I have replaced the 3 shims that I planned to, the bike was a total pig to start up initially!!! Needed full choke which is never needed.... once she idled on half choke, I took her out for a spin to warm her up properly.

I balanced the throttle bodies which were well out as I would have guessed having changed shims although I wouldn't have thought she would have been that far out!

Checked the tickover speed, She shows as idling around 1100 rpm on the bikes gauge. Using a pick up on the HT leads she shows to be idling at 900-950 rpm which I am happy about.

I checked and adjusted the CO measurement.... First proper test ride this evening going to work! Will post how she feels when I get there.


__________________________________________________
BMW K100LT 1988 Matt Black Peugeot Electra Blue (ELX) Colour is now confirmed...
Yamaha Thundercat
Triumph Spitfire (not a bike but hell it's British chaps)
Valve Clearences 169042 Valve Clearences 169034
    

11Back to top Go down   Valve Clearences Empty Re: Valve Clearences on Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:42 pm

charlie99

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top work twincarb


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'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
    

12Back to top Go down   Valve Clearences Empty Re: Valve Clearences on Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:15 pm

AL-58

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@Rick G wrote:Kawasaki use the same shims in many of their older bikes so you may not have to pay the BMW price depending on where you are situated in relation to dealers.
Yamaha XJ750/XJ900 too.I harvested a bunch of them from some XJ750stuff I had years ago. I added them to the BMWTCNSW shim kit.

Al


__________________________________________________
'87 K100RS/HRD sidecar (1100 motor)  sc25 
'92 K100RS-16v (Paint it Black)

'87 K100RT with Paralever backend

"When I'm too old and too foolish to handle a sidecar I'll buy a Sportsbike"

Valve Clearences K-dogs10
    

13Back to top Go down   Valve Clearences Empty Re: Valve Clearences on Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:14 pm

rosskko

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@twincarb wrote:First proper test ride this evening going to work! Will post how she feels when I get there.

That was 9 hours ago. You ok TC? or are you stuck on the side of the road? Or do you work a reeeeally long way from home?


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1986 K100RT VIN 0093801K100RT with summer fairing for a northern visitor

Basic/2 6308802K100CJ  05/1988

K1100RS 0194321
    

14Back to top Go down   Valve Clearences Empty Re: Valve Clearences on Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:50 am

twincarb

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Work was busy last night which is a bit unusual! Hence wasn't able to log on.

Report back is the bike is deff pulling a lot better. There were several occasions when I was shooting down the Dual Carriageway that I glanced at the speedo and had to back off! I am sure the engine is running quieter now as well.

This morning I wheeled the K outside and fired her up. No "choke" used and she just purred into life Very Happy

MPG has shown a slight raise since replacing the FPR she was 43 Mpg now 43.6 Mpg! so there is an improvement.... Replacing the Injectors is still at the back of my mind...

I have got an excel spreadsheet here that I will pass onto CF to put into the downloads section which calculates the size shim that you need to put in to get them back into spec. It also allows you to see what the clearances will be when you have fitted the new one's which is handy.


__________________________________________________
BMW K100LT 1988 Matt Black Peugeot Electra Blue (ELX) Colour is now confirmed...
Yamaha Thundercat
Triumph Spitfire (not a bike but hell it's British chaps)
Valve Clearences 169042 Valve Clearences 169034
    

15Back to top Go down   Valve Clearences Empty Re: Valve Clearences on Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:37 am

AJ.Valente

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Twincarb wrote: "Should I take the intakes so they are tighter which means I need to change the size shim on cylinder 2 and 4 or should I maintain them as shown below with a looser fit?"

My mechanic in Manchester, NH says that loose is OK. That is, if the clearance is too tight then shim it, otherwise don't worry about it. This makes complete sense to me.

On the other hand, I've read posters to this board claim that tolerances closer to the tight end are better for performance. This rational escapes me because either the valve is open enough to do its job, or it is not. Having it open just enough but no more seems a bit sophomoric, especially if one has to go back next year and re-shim because it's become too tight again.

I suppose if it's completely out of range on the loose side that may be perceived as inefficient, but I'm not convinced it affects performance to any degree.
So, am I going wrong somewhere here? :pale:

    

16Back to top Go down   Valve Clearences Empty Re: Valve Clearences on Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:56 am

twincarb

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AJ, I pretty much used the logic that you wrote.... I took all the measurements and then measured the Shims that were in place. I then used the excel chart I had and entered the figures.

Essentially what I was then looking for was to have the intake valves as close as possible and the same with the exhausts so all cylinders are allowed to have the same amount of air, even though the difference can be 0.05mm difference it will still throw the air fuel balance off. This will be increased if the exhausts are open for different amounts of time.

There was a link to a video earlier and all the mechanic was checking was that they aren't to tight, this is more essential on the exhaust valves.

I know that if valves are to loose you get the tick tick tick from the top end (I had that on my car which had hydraulic valves - top end rebuild needed!)

It was more by luck that all the figures came in the way they did, with the exhausts being loose and the inlets tight. I believe that some also say it's better that way as exhausts valves only go tight over time. Others say that on our engines the valves never need adjusting! I shall check mine again in about 1000 miles (which is only about 2 weeks riding!) But then it will give me a warm feeling if they are all good! Very Happy

As for performance, I think that everything is tied in together so when the valves are adjusted the throttle bodies need checking/adjusting... and when they have been done then it's worth checking the CO adjustment as well. So with tweaking all of the above the net gain is there. Of course performance/power is subjective and it may just be a psychological impression that the work I have done has restored any loss of power!


__________________________________________________
BMW K100LT 1988 Matt Black Peugeot Electra Blue (ELX) Colour is now confirmed...
Yamaha Thundercat
Triumph Spitfire (not a bike but hell it's British chaps)
Valve Clearences 169042 Valve Clearences 169034
    

17Back to top Go down   Valve Clearences Empty Re: Valve Clearences on Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:05 pm

RicK G

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If you are setting up an engine for the next race then yes the clearances are critical. With the standard engine you are best to stick to the factory clearances with any error on tolerance to tight on the inlet and lose on the exhaust.
Any performance increase you get will be very marginal at best and the idle will be easier to get nice and smooth and once you crack the throttle a smooth idle is nothing but that, a smooth idle.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

18Back to top Go down   Valve Clearences Empty Re: Valve Clearences on Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:43 pm

sidecar paul

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I felt like an Aussie today, checking the valve clearances on the outfit. So I was hanging upside down between the bike and sidecar.:geek:

All the exhausts were spot on, 12 thou no go, 10 thou go.
Inlets, 2 were good at 8 thou no go, 6 thou go; and 2 were 1 thou tight at 5 thou....which doesn't worry me at all.

So if the 2 inlets have gone 1 thou tight in 101,000 miles I reckon I've got a few more miles before they close up completely ( ½ a million? )
I also fitted my repainted spare cam cover so now the passenger doesn't have to look at a scruffy cover.cheers

All good fun and I won't need to borrow MikeP's shim tools just yet.
Paul.


__________________________________________________
'84 K100RS (0014643) (owned since '85), 86 K100RS (0018891) with Martello sidecar (built as an outfit in '88),
'51 Vincent (since '67),'72 Montesa Cota (from new), '87 Honda RS125R NF4 (bought 2015) 
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19Back to top Go down   Valve Clearences Empty Re: Valve Clearences on Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:29 pm

twincarb

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All good results there... I don't expect to have to replace shims for the life of the engine now.

I have to say the shim tools make it a very easy job to do Smile which reminds me need to email Mike to let him know they are back in the post...


__________________________________________________
BMW K100LT 1988 Matt Black Peugeot Electra Blue (ELX) Colour is now confirmed...
Yamaha Thundercat
Triumph Spitfire (not a bike but hell it's British chaps)
Valve Clearences 169042 Valve Clearences 169034
    

20Back to top Go down   Valve Clearences Empty Re: Valve Clearences on Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:26 pm

mike d

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Seen the email - thanks.

Mike

    

21Back to top Go down   Valve Clearences Empty Re: Valve Clearences on Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:42 pm

Crazy Frog

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@sidecar paul wrote:I felt like an Aussie today, checking the valve clearances on the outfit. So I was hanging upside down between the bike and sidecar.:geek:

Easier for me sc2 , but when I want to check the oil, this is another story Mad . I have to hang upside down.


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22Back to top Go down   Valve Clearences Empty Re: Valve Clearences on Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:47 pm

Crazy Frog

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@twincarb wrote:I have got an excel spreadsheet here that I will pass onto CF to put into the downloads section which calculates the size shim that you need to put in to get them back into spec. It also allows you to see what the clearances will be when you have fitted the new one's which is handy.


If this is this one, it's already in the downloads for over a year Very Happy

Valve Clearences Valve_10

Valve Clearences 78846 Any other spreadsheet is welcome.

CF


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Valve Clearences Frog15Valve Clearences Logo2101986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML GT2 sidecar, 1999 K1200lt/Hannigan Astro Sport sidecar.
    

23Back to top Go down   Valve Clearences Empty Re: Valve Clearences on Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:14 am

mike d

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Hi Twincarb

The tools arrived back this morning - thanks.

Mike

    

24Back to top Go down   Valve Clearences Empty Re: Valve Clearences on Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:19 am

Erman

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Is that guy in the Youtube video serious when he says silicone doesn't hurt the engine?


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1984 BMW K1000RS

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