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1Back to top Go down   Electrical Problem - Not Cranking Empty Electrical Problem - Not Cranking on Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:29 pm

Shug

Shug
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Hello,

I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction.  

K100RS 1983.

Went out for a spin when the charge light came on brightly.  Bike seemed to be running fine, but I headed straight home.  The neutral light didn't work though headlights, indicators and horn did.

Turned the bike off when I got home but when I turned it back on there is no neutral light and the bike wont turn over even when I pull the clutch in. 

The bike has been showing a dim charge light off and on for some time and after checking the forum this appears to be fairly normal.

The bike has stalled a couple of times when approaching traffic lights but started on the button no issues.

There is a new battery fitted, which I've checked and seems to hold it's charge fine.

So far:-
Checked the battery connections - cleaned.
Checked the earth point under the tank - cleaned.
Ignition switch seems to be ok
Kill switch ok
Clutch switch ok
Took starter motor off and got rid of the worst of the dust/debris inside.
Took the Alternator brushes out and these seem ok for length.
Took the clocks off and checked the Neutral bulb, 12v gives a nice bright light.
When turning the ignition on there is a relay that clicks in.

Hopefully someone can help, bike is laid up and were seeing some great days to be out for a ride.

Thanks in advance.

Shug

    

2Back to top Go down   Electrical Problem - Not Cranking Empty Re: Electrical Problem - Not Cranking on Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:43 pm

Inge K.

Inge K.
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Welcome shug!

About cranking problems....check fuse #1.....and if power is present with ignition on.

I would guess that you have a short to ground in the fuse #1 circuit,
which also have caused the charge warning light to illuminate.


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

3Back to top Go down   Electrical Problem - Not Cranking Empty Re: Electrical Problem - Not Cranking on Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:15 pm

Shug

Shug
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Hello Inge K,

Thanks for your welcome and quick response.

Yes I have 12v at fuse 1.

Shug

    

4Back to top Go down   Electrical Problem - Not Cranking Empty Re: Electrical Problem - Not Cranking on Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:25 pm

Inge K.

Inge K.
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Is the neutral lamp the only warning/signal lamp which don't function?


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

5Back to top Go down   Electrical Problem - Not Cranking Empty Re: Electrical Problem - Not Cranking on Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:39 pm

Shug

Shug
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No, the choke light and the Brake check light aren't coming on either.

The clock cluster background lights, Indicator Warning and high beam warning lights all light up.

    

6Back to top Go down   Electrical Problem - Not Cranking Empty Re: Electrical Problem - Not Cranking on Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:43 pm

Inge K.

Inge K.
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And oil pressure?


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

7Back to top Go down   Electrical Problem - Not Cranking Empty Re: Electrical Problem - Not Cranking on Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:47 pm

Shug

Shug
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Hello, sorry, No the oil pressure warning light isn't on either.

    

8Back to top Go down   Electrical Problem - Not Cranking Empty Re: Electrical Problem - Not Cranking on Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:52 pm

Shug

Shug
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Just remembered another issue whilst it was running.  

The speedo needle and possibly the tacho needles dropped onto the stop ie reading zero whilst riding.  The Speedo needle had been a bit jumpy for a short period.

    

9Back to top Go down   Electrical Problem - Not Cranking Empty Re: Electrical Problem - Not Cranking on Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:00 pm

Inge K.

Inge K.
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All the warning lamps that don't function (BMU, choke, oil pressure, charge) is powered
from fuse #1.................also neutral lamp, clutch switch -/- starter button.

All this is still pointing to the fuse #1 circuit, I suggest that you try to change the fuse.


.....another sign is no brake light, also powered by fuse #1.



About your last post...speedo and tacho is also powered from fuse #1.


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

10Back to top Go down   Electrical Problem - Not Cranking Empty Re: Electrical Problem - Not Cranking on Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:28 pm

Shug

Shug
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Brilliant! Very Happy Swapped fuse 1 and bingo the warning lights all come on.

But! pushing the starter button doesn't turn it over.  I can hear/feel a relay kicking in and out with the button push, possibly the load shed.  I'm getting about 11v at the starter relay when pushing the starter button but the relay doesn't operate.  I'll do some checking to see why I'm getting 1-2v drop to the relay, hopefully a bad connection.

Taking a jumper from the battery + to the Relay switched input doesn't trigger it either.

Could the starter relay be faulty and that's what caused the fuse to go

    

11Back to top Go down   Electrical Problem - Not Cranking Empty Re: Electrical Problem - Not Cranking on Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:39 pm

Inge K.

Inge K.
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Measure if you got ground at the connector to the negative side of the coil.


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

12Back to top Go down   Electrical Problem - Not Cranking Empty Re: Electrical Problem - Not Cranking on Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:46 pm

Shug

Shug
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780 ohm resistance to the battery -ve terminal.

    

13Back to top Go down   Electrical Problem - Not Cranking Empty Re: Electrical Problem - Not Cranking on Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:48 pm

charlie99

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starter brushes  ?


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%OElectrical Problem - Not Cranking Au-log10

'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
    

14Back to top Go down   Electrical Problem - Not Cranking Empty Re: Electrical Problem - Not Cranking on Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:01 pm

Inge K.

Inge K.
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The starter relay coil is grounded through the ignition ECU (under the tank).
This problem shows up now and then (so you're not the first, but that don't help...)
usually a new ECU is needed...but check the multiconnector and clean (DeoxIT)
if needed, and check that the ECU got good ground.

Some have also connected the negative side of the starter relay directly to ground
when this problem have arised.


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

15Back to top Go down   Electrical Problem - Not Cranking Empty Re: Electrical Problem - Not Cranking on Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:20 pm

Shug

Shug
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Electrical Problem - Not Cranking 723598 Firstly, thanks Inge K, you've been a great help.  I was struggling to get my head around the problem and you're guidance has been quick, logical and accurate.

Had a look at the ECU connector which seems fairly clean.

Jumped from the ground connector on the starter relay to the battery -ve terminal and Bingo the bike turns as it should.

I'll probably rig a direct earth until I get a replacement ECU.  I'm guessing it's not a viable repair, bear in mind my first class fuse checking abilities LOL

Thanks again for your help.

    

16Back to top Go down   Electrical Problem - Not Cranking Empty Re: Electrical Problem - Not Cranking on Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:22 pm

Inge K.

Inge K.
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Electrical Problem - Not Cranking 112350


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

17Back to top Go down   Electrical Problem - Not Cranking Empty Re: Electrical Problem - Not Cranking on Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:05 pm

charlie99

charlie99
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onya inge !
a good find shug ...


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%OElectrical Problem - Not Cranking Au-log10

'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
    

18Back to top Go down   Electrical Problem - Not Cranking Empty Re: Electrical Problem - Not Cranking on Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:03 pm

gpguyer

gpguyer
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Well done boys.  I love this forum for the help you get. No one bitches everyone just gets on with the job.  GREAT GREAT GREAT


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Electrical Problem - Not Cranking 23051310
    

19Back to top Go down   Electrical Problem - Not Cranking Empty Re: Electrical Problem - Not Cranking on Sat Jun 22, 2013 3:05 am

K-BIKE

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Top notch troubleshooting Inge it does not get better than that for deduction.
Regards,
K-BIKE

    

20Back to top Go down   Electrical Problem - Not Cranking Empty Update on Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:08 pm

Shug

Shug
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Replacement ECU arrived, fitted, Warning lamps came on, bike started, the fuse didn't blow again.  So out for a spin, about 30 miles later no repeat.  Though I did have 1 cut out when pulling up which was a groan moment.  Think I have multiple issues I need to sort.

Anyway, as I'm an inquisitive bgr! and I had a defunkt ECU which was surplus so I opened it up for a look see.  

The PCB tracks are all lifting from the board, not good, and probably renders the board useless (at least for my limited skill level)

Electrical Problem - Not Cranking Imag0215

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Electrical Problem - Not Cranking Imag0218

Electrical Problem - Not Cranking Imag0219

    

21Back to top Go down   Electrical Problem - Not Cranking Empty Re: Electrical Problem - Not Cranking on Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:41 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

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Same problem as I had last year.

I also replaced the EC but became convinced the problem was actually the connectors at the ECU rather than inside the unit. The trouble is that you never know if the problem is a faulty sensor somewhere, a bad connection between the sensor and the ECU, or a bad connection into the ECU. That's before you suspect the ECU itself.

I never tested the unit because it was more convenient and cheaper to buy another from Motorworks rather than getting mine tested. Mine did look perfect inside. I had already swapped over the starter and load shed relay to no avail.

Welcome too. Cornwall is nice.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Alaska Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 105,200 miles
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 36,188  miles
    

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