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1Back to top Go down   Load shed and EFI Empty Load shed and EFI on Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:20 pm

SteveK1

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OK, have been fiddling with my "new" K1 and I have cleaned out the cash of nuts behind the fan motor on top of the engine case and cleaned up all the harness connections I could find.  All fluids flushed and replentished.  New fuel pump and filter (pump died on the way home from innurgal ride).  New fan motor and checked the air filter, looks good, have new one in reserve.  New plugs, old ones looked fine.  Fuel injector working fine, but only after thumb off start button.  No power to fuel injectors with start button depressed, appears that fuel injectors are routed through the load-shed relay.  I have requested a K1 specific wiring manual from dealer for $43 USD but have to wait several weeks for delivery from GDR.  Currently the only way to run the bike is by starting with "magic fluid" through the intake, not ideal due to the possibility of detonitation, only done when cold and not lately after a few time to see what was what.  Will start normal if I jumper the fuel injectors.

Any ideas about load shed and fuel injectors?  Did the PO mess with the wiring and foul this up?  I see some evidence of wiring modifications to the relay box, but cannot see specifically what wires have been moved. 

As stated in my introduction post, the K1 has 18,000 miles, was "found" by grandkids cleaning out Grannie's basement, and Grandpa left it there after he died in 2002.  Or that is the story, anyway.

    

2Back to top Go down   Load shed and EFI Empty Re: Load shed and EFI on Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:00 pm

RicK G

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I have come across a similar problem many years ago on a Honda where the battery was dropping voltage at the starter phase (with a new but faulty battery) and most of the FI units are designed to not work when the volts get below 9 to 9.5 Volts and when you release the button the engine is still turning so the FI unit will work for that very short time and maybe fire.
Two questions is have you replaced the battery with a new or known good unit and have you made sure the Squirrels wont seek revenge for getting rid of the nuts they saved up for winter.

Check the voltage of the battery when the starter is turning the engine, it should not drop below 10.5 to 11 Volts and with a new battery 12Volts would be more like what I would expect.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki
    

3Back to top Go down   Load shed and EFI Empty Re: Load shed and EFI on Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:23 pm

SteveK1

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I did check voltage at starter crank. I does drop for a fraction of a second to about 10 to 10.5 (fluke does take some time to respond) and then comes back up into the 11's.  This is the battery the kid who sold it to me put into it.  Would you recommend jumping it serially to another battery to see if the power is improved or would the god of electrons (Jupiter?) do bad things to me?

A replacement battery is about $130 USD.  Consider the $ I have put into it so far it is not exceptional, but not sure what I would do with two batteries.

This is what happens when you piss-off the squirrels...



Last edited by SteveK1 on Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:33 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Fluke)

    

4Back to top Go down   Load shed and EFI Empty Re: Load shed and EFI on Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:34 pm

RicK G

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I would say that there is not a problem with the battery by what you say.
The load shed relay should not affect the injection working. When the ECU fire the injectors the positive is always connected and an earth is applied which opens the pintle valve for the correct length of time.
Check you have pos at the injectors when you are chanking the engine. Check the multi pin connector on the ECU is plugged in correctly and the security clip is clipped down to hold the plug. Probably pay to clean every electrical connector on the bike as sitting like yours has been will let corrosion have its wicked ways.
It also pays to make sure the battery is fully charged when trying to troubleshoot these problems as if the charge gets low the contacts of the starter relay can weld shut because the low voltage can cause high current drains when the starter motor turns slowly.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki
    

5Back to top Go down   Load shed and EFI Empty Re: Load shed and EFI on Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:52 pm

rosskko

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Check out Ajays link. SWITCH


__________________________________________________
1986 K100RT VIN 0093801K100RT with summer fairing for a northern visitor

Basic/2 6308802K100CJ  05/1988

K1100RS 0194321
    

6Back to top Go down   Load shed and EFI Empty Re: Load shed and EFI on Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:24 am

MikeP

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@SteveK1 wrote:This is the battery the kid who sold it to me put into it.  

A replacement battery is about $130 USD.  Consider the $ I have put into it so far it is not exceptional, but not sure what I would do with two batteries.
How certain are you that the battery is the correct one?

I once made the mistake of allowing a PO to fit a replacement. I spent quite a while trying to track down the problem believing that it being a new battery ruled it out. Turned out that the new battery wasn't man enough.

    

7Back to top Go down   Load shed and EFI Empty Re: Load shed and EFI on Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:48 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

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Batteries can be tricky. When I got the LT I did quite a bit to it and the battery was checked as being ok.

6 weeks later up the west of Ireland on a Friday morning no go and not a motorcycle shop never mind a BMW one anywhere. Battery kaput. Anyway my only option was a ride on lawnmower outlet about half an hour away. Not expecting much I took the old battery with me and put up on the counter with a timid 'would you have one of these?' The man reached under the counter and lifted up a battery 'you mean like this?'. A perfect fit and all problems solved. My car was the same, anything dodgy on the battery and all would go mad. Usually the dealer charge for the diagnostics to tell you the battery is kaput is more than the cost of a battery. Lawnmower battery as dirt chap and it performed perfectly.

RickG is very right about a low battery.

If you can do it and haven't already done it you should open every electrical connection and clean it up. That includes the earth points. Its easy to do without the wiring diagrams if you take it methodically one connection at a time. With age they get corrosion and deposits on them that act as insulators. Clean up all the connections at the ICU unit under the seat and up at the headstock at the front of the gas tank. Dodgy connections can make a good component or sensor appear to be faulty so it is very important to get these sorted before going down the road of replacing too much. There are plenty of recommendations about fitting headlight relays rather than run the current through the switch, this may have been done by a PO. Also most important that brake fluid is changed regularly as the ABS units don't like lack of maintenance.

If you haven't done it you should replace the high pressure fuel lines as they perish with age. Same with brake pipes. Tyres go hard and horrible, 5 years is tops and 3 years better. Some bits actually suffer more from lack of use because of a lack of constant movement and corrosion.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 36,188  miles
    

8Back to top Go down   Load shed and EFI Empty Re: Load shed and EFI on Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:39 pm

SteveK1

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@RicK G wrote:I would say that there is not a problem with the battery by what you say.
The load shed relay should not affect the injection working. When the ECU fire the injectors the positive is always connected and an earth is applied which opens the pintle valve for the correct length of time.
Check you have pos at the injectors when you are chanking the engine. Check the multi pin connector on the ECU is plugged in correctly and the security clip is clipped down to hold the plug. Probably pay to clean every electrical connector on the bike as sitting like yours has been will let corrosion have its wicked ways.
It also pays to make sure the battery is fully charged when trying to troubleshoot these problems as if the charge gets low the contacts of the starter relay can weld shut because the low voltage can cause high current drains when the starter motor turns slowly.
Rick, thanks for your input.  I also do not think it is the battery and have been sure to do my "spearments" with it fully charged, have seen taken heed to the words of caution elsewhere on this forum.  As such, have taken much time to clean all the connections I could find, under the tank and elsewhere. 
All in all, despite the cash of nuts behind the fan motor, the bike appears to have been stored in pretty good shape.  No real sign of corrosion, thogh the fan motor and fuel pump were quick to give out, understandable.

    

9Back to top Go down   Load shed and EFI Empty Re: Load shed and EFI on Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:59 pm

SteveK1

SteveK1
Silver member
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92KK K100LT 193214 wrote:Batteries can be tricky. When I got the LT I did quite a bit to it and the battery was checked as being ok.

6 weeks later up the west of Ireland on a Friday morning no go and not a motorcycle shop never mind a BMW one anywhere. Battery kaput. Anyway my only option was a ride on lawnmower outlet about half an hour away. Not expecting much I took the old battery with me and put up on the counter with a timid 'would you have one of these?' The man reached under the counter and lifted up a battery 'you mean like this?'. A perfect fit and all problems solved. My car was the same, anything dodgy on the battery and all would go mad. Usually the dealer charge for the diagnostics to tell you the battery is kaput is more than the cost of a battery. Lawnmower battery as dirt chap and it performed perfectly.

RickG is very right about a low battery.

If you can do it and haven't already done it you should open every electrical connection and clean it up. That includes the earth points. Its easy to do without the wiring diagrams if you take it methodically one connection at a time. With age they get corrosion and deposits on them that act as insulators. Clean up all the connections at the ICU unit under the seat and up at the headstock at the front of the gas tank. Dodgy connections can make a good component or sensor appear to be faulty so it is very important to get these sorted before going down the road of replacing too much. There are plenty of recommendations about fitting headlight relays rather than run the current through the switch, this may have been done by a PO. Also most important that brake fluid is changed regularly as the ABS units don't like lack of maintenance.

If you haven't done it you should replace the high pressure fuel lines as they perish with age. Same with brake pipes. Tyres go hard and horrible, 5 years is tops and 3 years better. Some bits actually suffer more from lack of use because of a lack of constant movement and corrosion.
Thanks 92KK, I will take caution and consider the battery further.  But, I am not convinced that is the issue.  Also, the fuel lines, tire and such will be replaced (I have replaced vacuume lines, in tank lines and quite a few other things in the process here), later, first things first... Get the bike moving and on the road.

Interesting what you say about the reccomendation of fitting a headlight relay as it pertains to the PO... Not sure what you mean about that. 

What I see in my relay box (and apparently is not the same as other K-bikes, it being a K1).  Six relays in two rows of three, unable to find a good diagram of what is what but through experimentation can kind of figure it out.  Five of the six are identical and black, one is inverse to the controler and controlled circuit, is blue and appears to be ABS.  I have a noid light attached to one of my fuel injectors.  I get no signal as long as the start button is pushed down.  When I release the button and the motor is turning the noid light flashes.  When I apply fuel via air intake (ether) and the bike starts (on three cylinders) the noid light begins flashing as soon as the start button is released.    I believe that I have isolated the load shed relay.  I remove the relay and place a jumper wire across the "controlled" circuit, hit the start button, all dash and running lights stay on and my noid light on the fuel injector flashes as it should.  Thoughts, anyone??

    

10Back to top Go down   Load shed and EFI Empty Re: Load shed and EFI on Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:05 am

RicK G

RicK G
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This will be the layout of the relay box
Load shed and EFI Relay_10

Using a relay to switch the high current for the headlight is a sound idea as all the current flows through a fairly puny switch on the handlebars.

If you google Eastern Beaver Jim there makes kits for the job and are quite reasonable in price but you can also make one yourself for far less. The headlight relay is considered a necessity if you intend using the 100 watt bulbs thst many of us use.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki
    

11Back to top Go down   Load shed and EFI Empty Re: Load shed and EFI on Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:36 am

SteveK1

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Thank you for the diagram Rick, that spells things out more clearly.  And thanks for the reference to the headlight switch mod, worth looking into.

    

12Back to top Go down   Load shed and EFI Empty Re: Load shed and EFI on Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:45 pm

K-BIKE

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DeoxIT treat every electrical connection on the bike with the Gold as a first step and the Shield as the second. It is available widely in the US and also from Caig themselves in the US.
Regards,
K-BIKE

    

13Back to top Go down   Load shed and EFI Empty Re: Load shed and EFI on Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:04 pm

SteveK1

SteveK1
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Rick,
What would you think If I simply bypass the load-shed relay and run the bike without?  I have done this in experimentation mode and it does solve my problem. But I'm wondering what unintended hazards my accompany such a move.  Meanwhile I await the electric manual specific to the K1 to arrive from Germany...
I have to belive the PO moved a wire to load shed trying to solve some other problem (I suspect he was trying to figure out why his fan was not working).  Additionally the PO inserted in the relay box wiring for several power plugs like for radar detector and heated accessories.



Last edited by SteveK1 on Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:19 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : PO)

    

14Back to top Go down   Load shed and EFI Empty Re: Load shed and EFI on Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:52 pm

RicK G

RicK G
admin
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I don't believe you would have any significant problems the relays primary function it to give the starter all the available current at start up time. Your battery needs to be up to scratch or the starter relay contact welding could take place.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki
    

15Back to top Go down   Load shed and EFI Empty Re: Load shed and EFI on Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:39 am

SteveK1

SteveK1
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Argh, I now notice that when I jumper the load shed relay my head-light stays on with out the key...
I could install an on-off switch for the headlight.  Or, just wait for my wiring manual to arrive.  Riding season will be over soon...
The PO must have moved a few wires around in the load shed circuit.

    

16Back to top Go down   Load shed and EFI Empty Re: Load shed and EFI on Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:41 pm

SteveK1

SteveK1
Silver member
Silver member
Spent a couple hours in the garage putting everything back together and took the K1 for a spin.  Runs great! 
What I have done in the interem (until I do get that BMW K1 spscific electrics manual from Germany, still waiting  :|  ... ) is open the cover to the "load shed" relay and close the connection physically with a small piece of saran wrap (food wrap), then replace the cover.  The headlight stays on and I suspect it is supposed to with the relay physically closed.  I should install a headlight switch but this night I just want to ride the thing, so am using the battery ground connection to shut the headlight off. 
She starts now and runs great!  Whoot, this is a fun ride!



Last edited by SteveK1 on Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:42 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : PO)

    

17Back to top Go down   Load shed and EFI Empty Re: Load shed and EFI on Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:29 am

RicK G

RicK G
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Previous Owners can be your worst nightmare. We should be able to get rid of some of the idiots under the noxious weeds act.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki
    

18Back to top Go down   Load shed and EFI Empty Re: Load shed and EFI on Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:52 am

SteveK1

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@RicK G wrote:Previous Owners can be your worst nightmare. We should be able to get rid of some of the idiots under the noxious weeds act.
Agreed, but then again, if the PO had not fouled up the EFI wiring, got befuddled, stashed the bike in his basement and died, left there over the next decade and-a-half, for me to find at Granny's basement sale, then I might not have a low mileage K1 to ride in pretty good shape with all things more-or-less intact.  Thank you PO for your befuddlement!   drunken   roundel 

I rode the bike to my GF's house for dinner last night and home again this morning after breakfast.  Very nice.  I think I could get used to this.  The ride is quite different from the Airheads I am used to.

    

19Back to top Go down   Load shed and EFI Empty Re: Load shed and EFI on Fri Sep 13, 2013 3:19 pm

robmack

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Did you see the BMW ON article on K-bikes.  Maybe you and your GF will be like this in 60 years:

Load shed and EFI K1_gra10


__________________________________________________
Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

20Back to top Go down   Load shed and EFI Empty Re: Load shed and EFI on Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:06 pm

SteveK1

SteveK1
Silver member
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@robmack wrote:Did you see the BMW ON article on K-bikes.  Maybe you and your GF will be like this in 60 years:

Load shed and EFI K1_gra10


If I make it for 60 more years I will be lucky to be standing next to the K1 for pictures.

I would have to say the above image is a non-sequitur of befuddlement Shocked 

BTW, I am not familiar with BMW ON so did not see the article, how could I find it?



Last edited by SteveK1 on Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:07 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : confusion)

    

21Back to top Go down   Load shed and EFI Empty Re: Load shed and EFI on Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:13 pm

robmack

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__________________________________________________
Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

22Back to top Go down   Load shed and EFI Empty Re: Load shed and EFI on Fri Feb 20, 2015 6:20 pm

SteveK1

SteveK1
Silver member
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Hello Inmates, I am reviving this thread.
The temperature was minus 26F (minus 33C) this morning and it will be riding weather soon.
I put the bike away in the Fall (2013) intending to get back to it.  And then in the Spring of 2014 I broke my leg badly playing ice hockey.  Surgery and plates and pins. It is difficult to work on your bike with a broken leg, and even after it is healed enough to walk on it, being able to crouch and squat and have the stamina to work on a bike takes a while. Well, now I am ready to get back to it.
I missed most of last year's riding season, but do have a few horses in the barn so was able to log a few thousand miles.
But I am itching to get back to my K1 bike.  I will let you know how it goes.
OK, the temperature has risen about thirty degrees since this morning and I'm off to the outdoor rink in Ann Arbor Michigan for a nice game of Shinny with some friends.


__________________________________________________
BMW K1 1990
BMW R60 /5 1973
BMW R100R 1992
Honda CB360T 1975
    

23Back to top Go down   Load shed and EFI Empty Re: Load shed and EFI on Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:34 pm

RicK G

RicK G
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Not good news about the leg but seems to have come along fairly well. Brrr -30°C  I think I am freezing at -5°. These Ks are very addictive, I can understand your being itching for a ride I get that way after a few weeks.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki
    

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