BMW K bikes (Bricks)

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1Back to top Go down   Strange happening Empty Strange happening Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:19 am

TIV

TIV
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Silver member
I had a very strange incident on my K yesterday. In the morning I rode it to work as I often do. At lunchtime I visited an old friend and had tea. When I rode it back to work (only about 5 minutes ride) I heard this ugly noise from the engine all the way. 

Parked back at my work, I switched off the ignition, all lights in the dash board went out but the starter motor turned constantly and the engine would not die! I tried the kill switch immediately but in vain. Then I kicked it into gear and let the clutch go and then it died. 

Has anyone experienced anything like this, or can explain this strange behavior? I have used the bike three times since this occurred, and everything has been fine.

Shocked


__________________________________________________
1936 Harley Davidsson 750 (sold), 1964 BMW R69S (sold), 1973 Suzuki RM400 (sold), 1972 Triumph Bonneville (sold), 1971 BSA Thunderbolt (sold), 1972 BSA Lightning (sold), 1977 Yamaha XS650 (sold), 1971, BMW R75/5 (sold), 1973 BMW R75/6 (sold), 1984 BMW R100RT 1992 Yamaha FJ1200 ABS (sold), 1990 Harley Davidson Electra Glide (sold)
1990 BMW K75RT Ex-Police (owned now)
2004 BMW R1150RT iABS (owned now)

Cheers TIV
    

2Back to top Go down   Strange happening Empty Re: Strange happening Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:36 am

dutchie

dutchie
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Hi, check the brushes on the starter motor, and the starter-relay 


grtz Dick


__________________________________________________
K75RT 1996 Strange happening Klettern
K100RT 1986
    

3Back to top Go down   Strange happening Empty Re: Strange happening Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:58 pm

JimK

JimK
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Hi.  Welcome TIV.

Starter relays stuck together..."fused" is the word some use when power is low...mostly due to cranking because it won't start...and the relays bind together.

Hit the relay box with a knuckle or the blunt end of the screwdriver....after disconnecting the earth ground or the battery as quickly as possible.

Found that out last year...and it worked!

Same thing happened to me....early into my ownership.
That's an awful, helpless thing when first experienced...Smile

My response was to dance around in little circles besides the bike, flapping arms  up and down and hollering, "Oh, s**t, Oh, s**t, Oh s**t..thinking it's my new bike and I've screwed it up!".

Funny now not then...Smile

Got a new battery and checked brain connections and ground connection on down near the coils.

Not a problem since the new battery....not saying that is your problem.

The gurus here will tell you to dress out the electrical connections with Deoxit...sold at Radio Shack in America by a different name.

Seems that we see this problem about every month.
Hope that someone might consider putting the subject on the So You Bought a K bike.... listing


__________________________________________________
'89 k100 rs se
    

4Back to top Go down   Strange happening Empty Re: Strange happening Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:09 pm

TIV

TIV
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Silver member
Thanks Jim, this is a perfectly good explanation. Having worked on electrics and electronics the best part of my life I´m familiar with Deoxit (great stuff) and the term "fusing". I cleaned all connections with Deoxit in 2009 when I bought this bike and gave it a serious overhaul. Put in a new battery at the same time, it measured 12,73 Volts yesterday after the dreadful incident.
 affraid 

Maybe it would be a good idea to overhaul the starter this coming winter and buy a starter relay to keep as a spare. What would I have to buy, other than brushes in order to overhaul the starter motor?



Last edited by TIV on Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:13 pm; edited 1 time in total


__________________________________________________
1936 Harley Davidsson 750 (sold), 1964 BMW R69S (sold), 1973 Suzuki RM400 (sold), 1972 Triumph Bonneville (sold), 1971 BSA Thunderbolt (sold), 1972 BSA Lightning (sold), 1977 Yamaha XS650 (sold), 1971, BMW R75/5 (sold), 1973 BMW R75/6 (sold), 1984 BMW R100RT 1992 Yamaha FJ1200 ABS (sold), 1990 Harley Davidson Electra Glide (sold)
1990 BMW K75RT Ex-Police (owned now)
2004 BMW R1150RT iABS (owned now)

Cheers TIV
    

5Back to top Go down   Strange happening Empty Re: Strange happening Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:32 pm

the.postman

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Parts 11 and 13

The Brushes come separately, one already on the backing plate (13)

Strange happening Starte10


__________________________________________________
1985 K100 RS   104EA49840092        #0081788     SILVERish (Madison) Prod. date 05/12/84
1984 srx 600
1986 cbr1000f/h
    

6Back to top Go down   Strange happening Empty Re: Strange happening Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:11 pm

TIV

TIV
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Silver member
@the.postman wrote:Parts 11 and 13. The Brushes come separately, one already on the backing plate (13)

Sorry, do not quite follow.... how many brushes are in the starter? Do you recommend a new backing plate with one attached and the other/others separately?


__________________________________________________
1936 Harley Davidsson 750 (sold), 1964 BMW R69S (sold), 1973 Suzuki RM400 (sold), 1972 Triumph Bonneville (sold), 1971 BSA Thunderbolt (sold), 1972 BSA Lightning (sold), 1977 Yamaha XS650 (sold), 1971, BMW R75/5 (sold), 1973 BMW R75/6 (sold), 1984 BMW R100RT 1992 Yamaha FJ1200 ABS (sold), 1990 Harley Davidson Electra Glide (sold)
1990 BMW K75RT Ex-Police (owned now)
2004 BMW R1150RT iABS (owned now)

Cheers TIV
    

7Back to top Go down   Strange happening Empty Re: Strange happening Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:28 pm

the.postman

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That's how the brushes are supplied from BMW

You buy them individually. One (13) already attached to the backing plate

Here is the link for Motobins


__________________________________________________
1985 K100 RS   104EA49840092        #0081788     SILVERish (Madison) Prod. date 05/12/84
1984 srx 600
1986 cbr1000f/h
    

8Back to top Go down   Strange happening Empty Re: Strange happening Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:41 pm

TIV

TIV
Silver member
Silver member
Thanks postman... ;-)


__________________________________________________
1936 Harley Davidsson 750 (sold), 1964 BMW R69S (sold), 1973 Suzuki RM400 (sold), 1972 Triumph Bonneville (sold), 1971 BSA Thunderbolt (sold), 1972 BSA Lightning (sold), 1977 Yamaha XS650 (sold), 1971, BMW R75/5 (sold), 1973 BMW R75/6 (sold), 1984 BMW R100RT 1992 Yamaha FJ1200 ABS (sold), 1990 Harley Davidson Electra Glide (sold)
1990 BMW K75RT Ex-Police (owned now)
2004 BMW R1150RT iABS (owned now)

Cheers TIV
    

9Back to top Go down   Strange happening Empty Re: Strange happening Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:20 pm

RicK G

RicK G
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What happens is caused by the battery not being up to scratch.
When you hit the starter button the relay operates and the starter turns but because it draws heaps of current (50amp) the battery voltage drops below the 10.5 volts that is the lower operating limit as a result the starter turns slowly and thus draws more current which in turn drops the voltage futher.  The result is almost a doubling of current and with relays that have a less than perfect connection on the contacts they weld shut and sometimes permanently and often melting the smaller spark limiting contact right off the spring leaf.

It's such a common occurence that I have installed Anderson plugs on both bikes so the power can be disconnected quickly.
  PS  Often they don't start because if the voltage drops lower than 9 volts the ECU wont work and no go.
Remove your starter relay and check the contacts have fully functioning contacts.  There are 2 contacts one releases after the main contact so to give a spark quench circuit and not erode the main contact.
Bosch have 2 types one with 1 contact and one with 2 contacts either work well but the single contact won't last as long.



Last edited by RicK G on Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:25 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : I had not reached my word limit)


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 2004 K1200GT 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki
    

10Back to top Go down   Strange happening Empty Re: Strange happening Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:02 am

Erman

Erman
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I've installed a cut-out switch between the battery negative and the starter motor to avoid unnecessary drain on the battery. Incidentally, it also helped when the starter relay got stuck before I had it replaced. 
As for the clock on the dash? Well it never worked anyway Laughing


__________________________________________________
Bikes:

1984 BMW K1000RS

1984 Yamaha XJ750 Seca
    

11Back to top Go down   Strange happening Empty Re: Strange happening Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:35 am

Crazy Frog

Crazy Frog
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@Erman wrote:I've installed a cut-out switch between the battery negative and the starter motor to avoid unnecessary drain on the battery. Incidentally, it also helped when the starter relay got stuck before I had it replaced. 
As for the clock on the dash? Well it never worked anyway Laughing
I did the same thing. It also acts as an engine immobilizer.


__________________________________________________
Strange happening Frog15Strange happening Logo2101986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML GT2 sidecar, 1999 K1200lt/Hannigan Astro Sport sidecar.
    

12Back to top Go down   Strange happening Empty Re: Strange happening Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:05 am

TIV

TIV
Silver member
Silver member
This leads to a question about the battery itself. Three years ago I purchased a battery that I thought would be great for this bike. 32 Amperes big "wet" battery that fits perfectly in the carrier. 

It has never drained out on me, but from the beginning it has given me a "weak" start as it is having a hard time cranking the motor. All the same I usually only have to hit the starter once or twice to fire up the motor. What kind/ type of battery´s do you use?



Last edited by TIV on Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:22 pm; edited 1 time in total


__________________________________________________
1936 Harley Davidsson 750 (sold), 1964 BMW R69S (sold), 1973 Suzuki RM400 (sold), 1972 Triumph Bonneville (sold), 1971 BSA Thunderbolt (sold), 1972 BSA Lightning (sold), 1977 Yamaha XS650 (sold), 1971, BMW R75/5 (sold), 1973 BMW R75/6 (sold), 1984 BMW R100RT 1992 Yamaha FJ1200 ABS (sold), 1990 Harley Davidson Electra Glide (sold)
1990 BMW K75RT Ex-Police (owned now)
2004 BMW R1150RT iABS (owned now)

Cheers TIV
    

13Back to top Go down   Strange happening Empty deoxit Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:16 am

ARTCOLLINSJR

ARTCOLLINSJR
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Radio shack around me just returned their Deoxit. Got it at Guitar Center

    

14Back to top Go down   Strange happening Empty Re: Strange happening Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:34 am

AL-58

AL-58
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I'm running a 28AH Panasonic AGM battery meant for a UPS.  It's been there a few years now.  Reliable, good cranking power, holds charge well even when the bike isn't being ridden.  I'll definitely buy another when the time comes. Its an LC-X12228P.  It was a much better price than any of the "standard" batteries about at the time.

Al


__________________________________________________
'87 K100RS/HRD sidecar (1100 motor)  sc25 

'87 K100RT with Paralever backend

"When I'm too old and too foolish to handle a sidecar I'll buy a Sportsbike"

Strange happening K-dogs10
    

15Back to top Go down   Strange happening Empty Re: Strange happening Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:56 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

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My battery failed when I was in West of Ireland far from a BMW dealer. So I ended up in a lawnmower centre and put a 21AH battery in the LT. Its still perfect 3 years later.

More recently had the starter out and its quite easy to do. As it says all you need are the two brushes and clean it out completely. Plenty of used starter motors around. Since you have had the battery out before all you need is to repeat that and take out two Allen screws to get the starter out. WD40 them [and the electrical connection on top] a day or two before.....

The starter is simplicity itself but the two ends need to be aligned when you are reassembling so just make two scratches so you can line them up. The two long Philips screws should come out easy enough. Probably full of crud inside but it will all clean out ok.

A bendy drive and small socket will let you get the relays out of the relay box without removing the petrol tank.

For the sake of it I would recommend getting a used starter relay and also load shed relay and put them in. Its cheap money but peace of mind, just get them from Motobins or Motorworks when you are getting the brushes. Keep the old ones as spares.

Overall its a very simple and straightforward job.

Good luck too.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 37,190 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 42,640 miles.

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

16Back to top Go down   Strange happening Empty Re: Strange happening Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:26 am

RicK G

RicK G
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@TIV wrote:This leads to the question of the battery itself. Three years ago I purchased a battery that I thought would be great for this bike. 32 Amperes big wet battery that fits in the carrier. 

It has never drained out on me, but from the beginning it has given me a "weak" start as it is having a hard time turning the motor over. I usually only have to hit the starter once. What kind/ type of battery´s do you use?
I would be checking out the starter, they are a much neglected item. Check the brushes for length and also make sure the bearings are OK. If a bearing collapses the armature can drag against the magnets and cause a slow starter and a big current drain.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 2004 K1200GT 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki
    

17Back to top Go down   Strange happening Empty Re: Strange happening Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:24 am

the.postman

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92KK K100LT 193214 wrote:My battery failed when I was in West of Ireland far from a BMW dealer. So I ended up in a lawnmower centre and put a 21AH battery in the LT. Its still perfect 3 years later.
I also have a lawnmower battery in mine.
A great 32AH Enduroline for less than £40 bought in june 2011 and never had a problem with it. bought from Tayna batteries
For some reason a similar battery in there m/c range cost £20 more


__________________________________________________
1985 K100 RS   104EA49840092        #0081788     SILVERish (Madison) Prod. date 05/12/84
1984 srx 600
1986 cbr1000f/h
    

18Back to top Go down   Strange happening Empty Re: Strange happening Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:38 pm

TIV

TIV
Silver member
Silver member
I´ll do the starter and buy a used starter and load shed relay's as suggested this coming winter. I like tinkering around in the winter. Before this came up I had decided to do adjust the valves, check the timing and sync the throttle bodies. Thanks for the help and all the good advice.
Very Happy


__________________________________________________
1936 Harley Davidsson 750 (sold), 1964 BMW R69S (sold), 1973 Suzuki RM400 (sold), 1972 Triumph Bonneville (sold), 1971 BSA Thunderbolt (sold), 1972 BSA Lightning (sold), 1977 Yamaha XS650 (sold), 1971, BMW R75/5 (sold), 1973 BMW R75/6 (sold), 1984 BMW R100RT 1992 Yamaha FJ1200 ABS (sold), 1990 Harley Davidson Electra Glide (sold)
1990 BMW K75RT Ex-Police (owned now)
2004 BMW R1150RT iABS (owned now)

Cheers TIV
    

19Back to top Go down   Strange happening Empty Re: Strange happening Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:58 pm

robmack

robmack
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Bosch Part Number: 0 332 002 150

Should be a drop in replacement for the BMW unit.  Available from Texas Industrial (link above) and from Euromotoelectrics


__________________________________________________
Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

20Back to top Go down   Strange happening Empty Re: Strange happening Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:36 am

the.postman

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Crazy Frog wrote a short post about this a few years ago

 Read all about it


__________________________________________________
1985 K100 RS   104EA49840092        #0081788     SILVERish (Madison) Prod. date 05/12/84
1984 srx 600
1986 cbr1000f/h
    

21Back to top Go down   Strange happening Empty Re: Strange happening Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:12 pm

TIV

TIV
Silver member
Silver member
@the.postman wrote:Crazy Frog wrote a short post about this a few years ago

 Read all about it
 
Very well explained Crazy Frog..... 
Big thumb


__________________________________________________
1936 Harley Davidsson 750 (sold), 1964 BMW R69S (sold), 1973 Suzuki RM400 (sold), 1972 Triumph Bonneville (sold), 1971 BSA Thunderbolt (sold), 1972 BSA Lightning (sold), 1977 Yamaha XS650 (sold), 1971, BMW R75/5 (sold), 1973 BMW R75/6 (sold), 1984 BMW R100RT 1992 Yamaha FJ1200 ABS (sold), 1990 Harley Davidson Electra Glide (sold)
1990 BMW K75RT Ex-Police (owned now)
2004 BMW R1150RT iABS (owned now)

Cheers TIV
    

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