BMW K bikes (Bricks)

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cruzink100

cruzink100
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I'm a little bummed.  I spent all day on her getting ready for this weekend.  I even took a sick day from work.

I spooned on a new front tire...took most of my morning.

Drained oil, changed filter, replenished.

Was going to remove battery but ended up not needing too (noticed there was a connector for a battery tender).  Before stopping this process I had already removed the ABS and injector control unit.  This process took my first part of the afternoon.  I put everything back together.

Put my seat back on.  Drop her off her center stand...try to start.  It turns but it seems like there's no fuel.  

I'll take a picture and post but I found a wire had been cut (more likely by me).  It is a green wire; one of a pair.  The other wire is green red.  They led to a plug\connector.  The other side of the plug\connector had wires that were taped up seemingly by the previous owner.  After carefully removing the tape it seems the wires had been severed and fixed by simply using electrical tape.

I'm thinking I should simply remove the connectors then connect the wires using male\female plugs I can pick up from hardware store.  Before doing this however, I'll back track the work I did around the battery ensuring I didn't inadvertently unplug something.

I was a bit stressed when I first posted this but have since chilled and edited.

I'll spend the rest of the weekend trying to get her started again if I have to.  I'm itching to become familiar with her.

Tony



Last edited by cruzink100 on Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:50 am; edited 1 time in total

    

ltisz

ltisz
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How's the fuel filter? My bike got pretty tough to start a few months back and changing the very gunky old filter changed everything.


__________________________________________________
1985 K100RS
    

cruzink100

cruzink100
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Thanks itisz.  I'll add picking up a fuel filter and install to the list of troubleshooting.

Prior to the no start she started within seconds of turning over.  I can't help but think I've simply disconnected something that has to do with fuel injection.  But again, I'll replace the fuel filter. 

I'll be reading through the service manual over breakfast\coffee then jump in when the sun rises. 

Thanks again.

    

Ed

Ed
Life time member
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don't despair Tony ,help will arrive shortly, good possibility you've just disconnected your FI somewhere.
 check your relay and ICU connections , clean up your earth point under the tank.
 . in the mean time , check those severed wires again, give them a good twist together , insulate them and try again.
good luck.


__________________________________________________
1993 K1100RS  0194321         Colour #690 Silk Blue  aka " Smurfette"
2018 Kart upgrade.
First Real Challenge....She Won't Start 10_x_110
    

Inge K.

Inge K.
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cruzink100 wrote:I'll take a picture and post but I found a wire had been cut (more likely by me).  It is a green wire; one of a pair.  The other wire is green red.  They led to a plug\connector.  The other side of the plug\connector had wires that were taped up seemingly by the previous owner.

These two wires is for the sidestand switch.

If this switch have been removed or disabled (not unusal), the two wires must be connected together....or your fuel pump won't start.


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

cruzink100

cruzink100
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Thanks for the encouragement and pointers groverK!  It's much appreciated.  

Thanks again Inge!  That wire will be where I start.  Here's a picture of the wires.  I'm going to try to identify them using the wiring diagrams in the manual.  Smile

This is the perfect resource...thanks k100-forum!

http://hrsbstaff.ednet.ns.ca/bvogel/K100/download/bike-wont-start1.htm


First Real Challenge....She Won't Start Photo8_zps892aae5b


Here's a pic of the connectors:

First Real Challenge....She Won't Start Photo9_zps2b771a56


I fixed the connectors above but she still won't start.  I noticed the wire harness that connects the ABS was damaged and one of the wires was crimped but it seems in tact.  In addition, I found there was a fuse missing from the wire harness the aforementioned damaged wires extend from.  Pics:

First Real Challenge....She Won't Start Photo1_zps26e04934

First Real Challenge....She Won't Start Photo3_zpsf3129cac

The search for where to get fuses and a fuel filter (seen other threads on this) begins.  

I'll be the first to admit I'm new to troubleshooting a machine with electronic fuel injection.  She started and ran just fine before I got into her.  I obviously caused this to happen.

Any and all further pointers are welcomed.  Thanks again folks...rubber side down.



Last edited by cruzink100 on Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:47 am; edited 1 time in total

    

Inge K.

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These two wires is for the sidestand switch.

If this switch have been removed or disabled (not unusal), the two wires at the harness side must be connected together ....or your fuel pump won't start.

If you find out that the switch is present and functioning, connect the four wires together so they become one pair.


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

cruzink100

cruzink100
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Thanks again Inge.  Problem persists after fixing aforementioned wires.  I'm picking up fuses tomorrow morning and replacing where necessary.  Checking relays afterwards.

    

Inge K.

Inge K.
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Have you measured if the sidestand switch really functions?

Does the fuel pump run for ~1,5 sec. when you turn on the ignition?
(and the sidestand up).


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

cruzink100

cruzink100
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Inge K. wrote:Have you measured if the sidestand switch really functions?

Does the fuel pump run for ~1,5 sec. when you turn on the ignition?
(and the sidestand up).
Thanks Inge for your continued support.  

I wish I noticed what the fuel pump sounded like when I started her the handful of times since owning her.  Is it a pretty obvious sound?  Unfortunately, all I hear is the clicking of the blinking ABS light (another item I'll be troubleshooting Smile ).  My Triumph Scrambler's fuel pump is pretty loud when the ignition key is turned on...I didn't notice it as much, at least from memory, on my K100.  

Here are a video of what I'm hearing (or not hearing):

First Real Challenge....She Won't Start Th_IMG_0495_zpsf742448d

And another one. I put the phone above the battery.  I turned the key then push the starter button.  I'm not hearing the fuel pump:

First Real Challenge....She Won't Start Th_IMG_0496_zps2a2f05ff


Using my multimeter, I checked main fuses including #6 for the fuel pump\fi.  

Inge I'm going to trace the wires and find the sidestand switch...I don't see it in the diagram at the troubleshooting page I'm using:

http://hrsbstaff.ednet.ns.ca/bvogel/K100/download/bike-wont-start1.htm

Thanks again.

    

Inge K.

Inge K.
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To check if the sidestand switch functioning as normal: measure at the wires/Connector that have been the subject in the earlier posts.
With ignition on and sidestand down, you should measure ~12V only at the
green wire.
When you pull up the sidestand you should measure ~12V also at the green/red wire.

I suspect that a PO have cutted and shorted the wires because of a malfunctioning switch.

Can't open the videos at phtobucket, but it doesn't matter......it's no problem to
hear the fuel pump when you turn on the ignition......or pull up the sidestand.

About the troubleshooting diagram: it's for the earlier Jetronic equipped models,
you got Motronic...........it's some similarities, but a lot of stuff that is different.


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

cruzink100

cruzink100
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Inge K. wrote:To check if the sidestand switch functioning as normal: measure at the wires/Connector that have been the subject in the earlier posts.
With ignition on and sidestand down, you should measure ~12V only at the
green wire.
When you pull up the sidestand you should measure ~12V also at the green/red wire.

I suspect that a PO have cutted and shorted the wires because of a malfunctioning switch.

Can't open the videos at phtobucket, but it doesn't matter......it's no problem to
hear the fuel pump when you turn on the ignition......or pull up the sidestand.

About the troubleshooting diagram: it's for the earlier Jetronic equipped models,
you got Motronic...........it's some similarities, but a lot of stuff that is different.
Very very helpful Inge K.  Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience!  

Green/red wire doesn't measure ~12v when the sidestand is up.  Thinking out loud (or in text) from the service manual I can see the Green/red leads to the fuel pump relay.  This kind of confirms that I wouldn't hear the fuel pump.  Now to find the kickstand switch so I can test it...also search for a way to bypass the switch.

Thanks Inge K...I appreciate any further insight/help.   Very helpful indeed.

    

Inge K.

Inge K.
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cruzink100 wrote: Now to find the kickstand switch so I can test it...also search for a way to bypass the switch.

The switch you find between the bridge for the stands and the gearbox, LHS.
How to bypass the switch is allready mentioned in post 5 and 7.


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

ReneZ

ReneZ
Life time member
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I really must be missing the point probably, but thought we already had seen that the wires for the side stand switch had been cut. It has been advised to connect them all together, in effect bypassing the switch (as advised more than once) so surely the sidestand switch is now effectively bypassed and shouldn't be an issue anymore. So why is OP so determined to find the switch? Or is he selectively following the tips (i.e, not creating the bypass)??


__________________________________________________
Greetings from Florida! Having a 'new' K  :cyclops:    Surprised-o: 

Rene


BMW K100 - 1985 (0030029) First Real Challenge....She Won't Start Rain
BMW K1200GT - 2003 (ZK01223)
    

cruzink100

cruzink100
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No, the suggestion to bypass switch by connecting wires previously went over my head (not selectively following tips thank you very much).  I just bypassed the switch by connecting the wires extending from the wire harness (thus completing the circuit).  So to update, I'm no longer concerned with finding the kickstand switch.  

She still doesn't start nor do I hear the fuel pump.  I'm circulating back to other suggestions.

Inge, thank you for your positive and helpful posts thus far.  I'm going to check the relay next.

I'm pretty grateful for this forum...if any of those who have posted non-judgemental posts need help restoring a 1954 Cadillac Coupe de Ville or 1955 Pontiac Chieftain please feel free to message me.  I'm accustomed to working on machines without efi.

    

ReneZ

ReneZ
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Very Happy  good on you.


__________________________________________________
Greetings from Florida! Having a 'new' K  :cyclops:    Surprised-o: 

Rene


BMW K100 - 1985 (0030029) First Real Challenge....She Won't Start Rain
BMW K1200GT - 2003 (ZK01223)
    

17Back to top Go down   First Real Challenge....She Won't Start Empty Gas Tank Removal Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:53 am

cruzink100

cruzink100
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I'm encountering some discrepancies between what is described in the Clymer service manual and what I'm seeing on my bike.

Here are pictures from the manual:

First Real Challenge....She Won't Start Photo2_zps06044e41

First Real Challenge....She Won't Start Photo1_zpsd64d9620

And my K100:

First Real Challenge....She Won't Start Photo3_zps3fc48b47

First Real Challenge....She Won't Start Photo4_zps734cf0a4


I'm guessing because the PO had a Corbin seat installed there was a modification.   As you'll see in the latter pictures there is no bolt for me to remove at the back of the tank.  Researching begins...perhaps someone out there has a Corbin seat and knows how the tank is bolted down to the frame?  I'm looking and so far nothing obvious.

Becoming very familiar with my bike....

    

cruzink100

cruzink100
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The title of this thread should be Newbie Popping his Cherry(ies).

Found this thread:

https://www.k100-forum.com/t2301-tank-removal-where-are-those-clips

Man...where do I donate money for this site?

    

Rick G

Rick G
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The pre 86 tank is the tank pictured in the clymer manual. your's is the post 85 which has 2 circlips these will need to be removed and lift the rear of the tank. (you will often find the two circlips are missing)  You may need to put some effort as the rubber is often very bound to the aluminium posts.
See red arrows
First Real Challenge....She Won't Start Photo410


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 2004 K1200GT 1998 K1100 LT, 1986 K75 GS.
    

rosskko

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you have a newer tank.

If they are fitted, there will be a clip that slides onto the pin (arrowed).

This pin sits inside a rubber mount that holds it quite firmly.

If the clip is not there then it is just a matter of lifting the rear of the tank.
I find a quick sharp pull up is the best.
If the seat is off, as yours seems to be, then sit on the frame to do it. Saves you tipping over the bike.

As an example, the pin sits very much the same way the side covers are attached. Hope that makes sense.

Once the rear of the tank is clear of the rubber mounts, slide it back 2 or 3 inches and it should lift off.

It will probably want to fall of the left of the bike if the hoses are still attached.

Don't forget to undo the clip for the fuel pump.

First Real Challenge....She Won't Start Photo410

Don't forget to undo the clip for the fuel pump.

First Real Challenge....She Won't Start Dsc04610


__________________________________________________
1986 K100RT VIN 0093801K100RT with summer fairing for a northern visitor

Basic/2 6308802K100CJ  05/1988

K1100RS 0194321
    

rosskko

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My answer has better pictures


__________________________________________________
1986 K100RT VIN 0093801K100RT with summer fairing for a northern visitor

Basic/2 6308802K100CJ  05/1988

K1100RS 0194321
    

cruzink100

cruzink100
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Thanks Rosskko and Rick G!  You're both helpful graphic artists.  Aussies are so damn cool.  Thanks to both of you!

    

Rick G

Rick G
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rosskko wrote:My answer has better pictures
Mine was there first Razz


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 2004 K1200GT 1998 K1100 LT, 1986 K75 GS.
    

92KK 84WW Olaf

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Have you checked the electrical connections into the petrol tank? I too agree its a problem with the electrical supply but I had issues with the connection to the tank. My L T has the supply on the right hand rear, my tank uses the press in poppers and clips.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 49,840 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 42,640 miles.

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

robmack

robmack
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cruzink100 wrote:I wish I noticed what the fuel pump sounded like when I started her the handful of times since owning her.  Is it a pretty obvious sound?  
The pump sounds like a swarm of angry bees buzzing.  Pretty distinctive.  You'll know it when you hear it.

If the bypass connection still doesn't bring you joy, the next usual suspect is the tank connector, as others have pointed out.  Make sure the connection is solid.  That BMW round connector is a big source of poor connection problems.

If it is not that, the only other problem area that makes sense is the Motronic unit.  The fuel relay is enabled by the Motronic so maybe the connector to the Motronic is not seated properly.  Try and re-seat that connector.  It is in the area that you fiddled with so it makes sense.

A schematic for the ignition system is at http://technik.flyingbrick.de/images/c/c2/61_schaltplanma2.1ohnekat.pdf
Benzinpumpe = fuel pump; pumpen relais = fuel pump relay; standenschalter = sidestand switch; killschalter = kill switch


__________________________________________________
Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

cruzink100

cruzink100
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Thanks robmack and 92kk!

I'm happy to report that my girl is running again.  Rosskko pointed out the wiring to the fuel tank.  I disconnected\reconnected that connection while taking the tank off.  At some point before trying to start her I wrapped the connection to the plug that goes into the Motronic (pictures earlier in the post).  

Before putting the tank completely back on I decided to try starting her.  I immediately heard the fuel pump when turning the key...now I remember hearing it and what it sounded like.  I reconnected the fuel hoses to the tank, turned the key, and she started up just as she did before...right away. 

For being over 20 years old she sure is clean underneath the tank...PO must've stored her during the winters:

First Real Challenge....She Won't Start Photo3_zps4a9ba980

First Real Challenge....She Won't Start Photo2_zpsbda7fa25

Thanks Inge and everybody for your help...I really do appreciate it!

    

cruzink100

cruzink100
active member
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Thanks robmack for the link to the schematics...pretty awesome and helpful.

http://technik.flyingbrick.de/images/c/c2/61_schaltplanma2.1ohnekat.pdf

    

92KK 84WW Olaf

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Life time member
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Now all you need to do is a cool beer. Have you enough air miles? Glad you are sorted, go enjoy a few miles!


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 49,840 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 42,640 miles.

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

robmack

robmack
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Congrats on fixing her.  It's a simple bike to work on, even if it is FI.


__________________________________________________
Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

rosskko

rosskko
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yay


__________________________________________________
1986 K100RT VIN 0093801K100RT with summer fairing for a northern visitor

Basic/2 6308802K100CJ  05/1988

K1100RS 0194321
    

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