Can't open my fuel tank!

Jez · 1 Can't open my fuel tank! Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:05 am

Jez

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A funny happened to me on the way way to the studio today, I stopped for fuel and had a couple of goes at opening the fuel cap. I always seem to turn the key the wrong way first. Anyway, got it open and then as a second thought went to add some lead replacement, Damn! The key now just keeps rotating in the lock. I was just about to order a fuel cap overhaul kit too!
Anybody have an idea how I might open the bugger.

Jez.

Holister · 2 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:40 am

Holister

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Hi Jez. I seemed to remember Be made having a similar problem. Here's the link. A few ideas there.
https://www.k100-forum.com/t9050-break-in-to-fuel-tank

92KK 84WW Olaf · 3 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:46 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

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Kaptain Holister wrote:Hi Jez. I seemed to remember Be made having a similar problem. Here's the link. A few ideas there.
https://www.k100-forum.com/t9050-break-in-to-fuel-tank

Go to post no 4 in the link.

Sidecar Paul came up with an excellent solution and my thought is that if I drilled the hole as he describes and it works then who needs a key.......but one you get it open you don't need a new fuel cap assembly, just tchang ethe lock. No destruction.

Jez · 4 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:36 pm

Jez

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Thanks Kaptain & Olaf. What made me think I was the first!? Shoulda checked the back catalogue.

study

Jez

92KK 84WW Olaf · 5 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:36 pm

92KK 84WW Olaf

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Let us know how it works out. I would drill the hole. Paul has a good knowledge of these things and if it doesn't work we can always call over to him in person and have him buy us a beer. But my take is that its likely to work. If its works good I think I will be making that hole anyway.

charlie99 · 6 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:14 am

charlie99

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good luck jez

Jez · 7 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:53 am

Jez

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Hole drilled but no cigar. Any idea of an image that may point at what I'm trying to hit?

werewasi · 8 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:20 am

werewasi

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I had the lock fail on my Titan so now i never lock it - just release it by way of the little button.

Is it possible to have a K cap that can be used without a key.

Jez · 9 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:58 am

Jez

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Number of posts : 161

Aaaaaah, it's official. Sidecar Paul is in fact a genius!

This is the tongue you need to be able to throw.....

I had to "elongate" the hole a little to obtain the required leverage but, it works.
Can't open my fuel tank! 212902

Cheers,

Jez.

Last edited by Jez on Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:01 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : I'm silently correcting your grammar.)

Jez · 10 New Keys Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:29 am

Jez

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New Keys.

Jez.

Dai · 11 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:07 pm

Dai

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Holister · 12 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:41 pm

Holister

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Good result Jerry.
Nice improv. :smoke:

sidecar paul · 13 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:30 pm

sidecar paul

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Thanks, Jez, I'm glad someone's tried it ......and it's worked.

Should the hole be in a slightly different place? It could be useful for future tank cap problems. If so I'll edit the original post in case someone searches for the solution.

Cheers,
Paul.

Jez · 14 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:22 am

Jez

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Sidecar Paul wrote:Should the hole be in a slightly different place? It could be useful for future tank cap problems. If so I'll edit the original post in case someone searches for the solution.

BEWARE!!!!! CORRECTION FOLLOWS FURTHER ON!

Well Paul, I'm surprised that it actually works as well as it does. Although it's not exactly in the centre, I reckon it could afford to go to the right (when viewed from above) so that your chosen poking tool would more cleanly slide into the corner of the square hole in the plate pictured below (to the left of the lock barrel when viewed from below) I think that in the centre I'm lucky that I can still poke the screwdriver in between the lock barrel and the plate.
Can't open my fuel tank! K100_p11

Here's mine....

You can see the elongation of the hole. To neaten it up and make the cap still usable once I overhaul the lock I'll drill it larger and put a thread (shallow as it is) and put a short bolt in it with a rubber washer. That way it could still be used should the lock ever fail again.

Jez.

Last edited by Jez on Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:16 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Correction needed.)

92KK 84WW Olaf · 15 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:45 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

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That sounds like a very sensible modification to make, one I will definitely be doing. A lot of cars have an emergency fuel flap release located inside the trunk, so no reason why a K shouldn't have something.....

A question, when you say make the hole a little to the right, do you mean the right as in this photo?

Can't open my fuel tank! 20150111

Jez · 16 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:04 am

Jez

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Olaf wrote:A question, when you say make the hole a little to the right, do you mean the right as in this photo?

Yep that's what I meant. But I must say mine does work in the middle.

Jez.

WAIT! I've just realised that the "under side photo isn't the underside of the lid it is a TOP view of the catch assembly! so to the LEFT would get your poky tool into that larger gap in the plate.

SORRY!
Embarassed

Last edited by Jez on Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:18 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : I'm an idiot.)

92KK 84WW Olaf · 17 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:57 pm

92KK 84WW Olaf

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92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:That sounds like a very sensible modification to make, one I will definitely be doing. A lot of cars have an emergency fuel flap release located inside the trunk, so no reason why a K shouldn't have something.....

A question, when you say make the hole a little to the right, do you mean the right as in this photo?

I'm still Konfused.

This photo is the one most of us will see....so do we go left or right of the hold as drilled in this photo. I use this one because I am going to be sitting on the K while I do it.....

Think of it as if you were going to Saville Row to be measured for a new suit and the tailor approaches you with a tape measure and also asks 'does sir ~~hang~~ dress left or right?'......you read his name badge and it says Mr P Dantic.

Last edited by 92KK 84WW Olaf on Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

sidecar paul · 18 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:43 pm

sidecar paul

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Good info Jez,

Perhaps a larger hole would be better, say 6mm, and then capped with a rubber bung?

(It's just that an offset hole would offend my OCD, :geek: )

Paul.

Jez · 19 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:47 pm

Jez

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A question, when you say make the hole a little to the right, do you mean the right as in this photo?

I'm still Konfused.

This photo is the one most of us will see....so do we go left or right of the hold as drilled in this photo. I use this one because I am going to be sitting on the K while I do it.....

Sorry Olaf!

To the left, anything from 5mm-10mm I imagine. Sorry for the Konfusion!

Jez · 20 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:14 pm

Jez

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Sidecar Paul wrote:Good info Jez,

Perhaps a larger hole would be better, say 6mm, and then capped with a rubber bung?

(It's just that an offset hole would offend my OCD, )

Paul.

Yep that'd work for sure.

Holister · 21 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:09 am

Holister

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How water tight is the cap with that hole in it? Any chance water can get into the tank?

blaKey · 22 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:35 am

blaKey

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Ok...while you are reading this, please have Jethro Tull's "Thick As A Brick" playing in your head.

This photo:

What am I looking for?

Inge K. · 23 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:47 am

Inge K.

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blaKey wrote:What am I looking for?

Jez · 24 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:52 am

Jez

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Katain Holister wrote:How water tight is the cap with that hole in it? Any chance water can get into the tank?

Every chance Kaptain,

At the moment, I have a patch of Gaffa tape over it, but I have these in the mail.

BlaKey wrote:What am I looking for?

Sorry BlaKey, I would mark the photo if I could, (I know I saw how to do that somewhere).
But this shows the assembly that's bolted to the bottom of the cap, the square plate is the "bolt" for the latch. So in order to pull this plate back towards the rider, you need to be able to slide a smaller screwdriver or such down through the hole you drilled in the petrol cap and into the "square" hole in the plate (or latching bolt) and draw it back towards the rider.
Can't open my fuel tank! Fuel_c10

This video goes some way to show how the cap/lock looks inside when you pull it apart.

Jez

PS thanks Inge for that marked diagram!

Last edited by Jez on Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:56 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Fix up link)

blaKey · 25 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:58 am

blaKey

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Thanks Inge and Jez.

"There are black-heads on his shoulders, and he pees himself in the night". I'm hearin' ya Jethro.

sidecar paul · 26 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:26 pm

sidecar paul

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Kaptain Holister wrote:How water tight is the cap with that hole in it? Any chance water can get into the tank?

The seal into the tank is well below the top cap so any water getting in through the hole, or through the lock, gets trapped in the cavity and can't drain into the tank. The water eventually drains out when the cap is open and in the vertical position.

The early 'push button' caps never had the ridge which prevents the water from draining back into the tank.

Paul.

sidecar paul · 27 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:39 pm

sidecar paul

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My white painted fuel cap developed a weird crack in the paint, (probably caused by too many coats without waiting for the under coats to be fully hardened Embarassed

). Anyway, the only option was to rub down and re-paint.

Now that Jez has shown that the idea works, I thought it would be a good opportunity to drill the 'just in case' hole.

To start with, I found a neat little plastic hole bung, so my hole diameter was decided as 8mm. It's bigger than I originally suggested, but from Jez's findings, it should allow a bit more room to poke about.

Looking at the inside of the cap, there's not much clearance between the internal casting projections, so if anyone is contemplating drilling the hole before the locking system fails, I would recommend drilling from the inside.

Also, going for an 8mm hole, the dimension from the hinge should be 23.5mm.

The cap has had it's first new coat of white and I'm trying to be patient between coats this time!

Paul.

blaKey · 28 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:56 am

blaKey

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BRILLIANT!

Great photos, clear as a bell and the bung is a great idea!

Holister · 29 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:24 am

Holister

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That's a pretty good idea Paul. Can't open my fuel tank! 112350

What are you using for a bung?

charlie99 · 30 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Thu Feb 12, 2015 7:53 am

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sidecar paul wrote:My white painted fuel cap developed a weird crack in the paint, (probably caused by too many coats without waiting for the under coats to be fully hardened ). Anyway, the only option was to rub down and re-paint.

Now that Jez has shown that the idea works, I thought it would be a good opportunity to drill the 'just in case' hole.

To start with, I found a neat little plastic hole bung, so my hole diameter was decided as 8mm. It's bigger than I originally suggested, but from Jez's findings, it should allow a bit more room to poke about.

Looking at the inside of the cap, there's not much clearance between the internal casting projections, so if anyone is contemplating drilling the hole before the locking system fails, I would recommend drilling from the inside.

Also, going for an 8mm hole, the dimension from the hinge should be 23.5mm.

The cap has had it's first new coat of white and I'm trying to be patient between coats this time!

Paul.

crikey paul ....how did you get the lid off ...seems that everyone that tries, gives up . ( that rolled pin would be hard to get out I recon ...

but I guess the right tool before the need arises and a good vice etc ....do make it much easier

sidecar paul · 31 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:56 pm

sidecar paul

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Charlie,
A steel 2.5mm drift is all I used in conjunction with a pin hammer, I've pulled 4 caps apart without too much trouble; but I do replace the pin with a plain stainless shaft on reassembly. There again, as you suggest, having a well equipped workshop does help. roundel

Captain,
These are the bungs I have, the sort of thing used in the electronics industry for filling unwanted holes in panels and enclosures.

Paul.

Holister · 32 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:10 am

Holister

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Top thread and thanks for the info.

My key has always needed a bit of force to open the cap and that's worried me. I've now disassembled my cap/lock and found quite a bit of corrosion, broken lug on the end of the lock mech, lots of dirt, disintegrated foam gasket and no lubrication. I've also found that my cap had been hacked by a PO which has caused some minor issues. I've cleaned it out and applyed some lube and it seems to work a bit better but I'm thinking I should replace it with a better working one.

This is probably a good heads-up to keep your cap/lock mechanism well serviced.
Has anyone ordered the gasket kit from Bob's BMW in the States? It seems to be the only place to get this.

Jez · 33 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:24 am

Jez

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I've got this one coming from the bins,

fuel cap gasket set.

Gaz · 34 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:22 pm

Gaz

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Also available here in Oz.

88 · 35 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:40 pm

88

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That's a great preventative measure Paul. As a matter of interest did you drill from inside out or Outside in? The Former looks like it might be the easiest for someone without access to a drill press.

sidecar paul · 36 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:50 pm

sidecar paul

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Will, I drilled from the inside: I wanted an 8mm hole (to suit the plastic bung) and, as you can see from the picture, there isn't much clearance between the internal cast ribs. A smaller hole would give more leeway on the hole position, particularly if drilling from the outside and, as the cap is only about 2mm thick at that point, it doesn't take too much effort to drill through.

Paul.

charlie99 · 37 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:10 am

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1 Can't open my fuel tank! Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:05 am

Jez

2 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:40 am

Holister

3 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:46 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

4 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:36 pm

Jez

5 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:36 pm

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6 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:14 am

charlie99

7 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:53 am

Jez

8 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:20 am

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9 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:58 am

Jez

10 New Keys Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:29 am

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11 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:07 pm

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12 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:41 pm

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13 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:30 pm

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14 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:22 am

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15 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:45 am

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16 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:04 am

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17 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:57 pm

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18 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:43 pm

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19 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:47 pm

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20 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:14 pm

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21 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:09 am

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22 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:35 am

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23 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:47 am

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24 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:52 am

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25 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:58 am

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26 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:26 pm

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27 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:39 pm

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28 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:56 am

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29 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:24 am

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30 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Thu Feb 12, 2015 7:53 am

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31 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:56 pm

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32 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:10 am

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33 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:24 am

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34 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:22 pm

Gaz

35 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:40 pm

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36 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:50 pm

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37 Re: Can't open my fuel tank! Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:10 am

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38 Re: Can't open my fuel tank!

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