BMW K bikes (Bricks)

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1Back to top Go down   Air flow meter issues Empty Air flow meter issues on Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:14 pm

xatzigiorgis

xatzigiorgis
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Hello everybody , 
i want to share with you an experience that i have. First of all excuse my English i might write something not so understandable.
    I own an 1987 K100 naked for the last 3 years. The motor was singing like a bird , lot of plesant km till beggining of this winter that i decided to make some body work. I took it to my mechanic to prepare her for being idle for some time. i took the bike to my place that i was supposed to make the body work and i started.
    The result was quite nice


Air flow meter issues Img_2010" />

But after starting her up the problems came. Although it was starting immediately and easy , when i was touching the throtle the engine was dying. 4 times my mechanic took her and 4 times , after 4-5 km was happening the same thing. The thing that i remember that the mechanic was doing was to open the air filter , teasing something with his fingers on the air flow meter , and the engine was running. He was taking it to his place and after a day or two the bike was coming back ''FIXED''.... but nothing is fixed. The same thing again and again. I decided ,after some events , that my mechanic does not have a clue how a K motor is working. So i started dealing all by myself. 
injectors - cleaned
new filter
new fuel pump
and ...comes the matter of air flow meter.
Has never been opened. I have no idea what to do with it. As it seems all the problems comes from that. i read all the topics obout, i opened it and studied it , but still couldnt do anything.
Can someone give a help hand ??

    

2Back to top Go down   Air flow meter issues Empty Re: Air flow meter issues on Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:23 pm

charlie99

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hi there .

have a look on the portal page for the "efi electronic ignition trouble shooting "

you will find all sorts of information about the afm in there

cheers


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%OAir flow meter issues Au-log10

'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
    

3Back to top Go down   Air flow meter issues Empty Re: Air flow meter issues on Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:25 pm

92KK 84WW Olaf

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Welcome to the forum.

That's a very nice K you have, looks really good and you take good care of it.

So what did your mechanic do to prepare the bike for being idle for some time?

Was the low seat on the K when you bought it or did you do that?

When the bike starts and then cuts out after 4/5 km will it start again and tick over? Or will it start and cut out when you take your finger off the button?


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Alaska Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 105,200 miles
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 36,188  miles
    

4Back to top Go down   Air flow meter issues Empty Re: Air flow meter issues on Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:30 pm

charlie99

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may not be airflow meter at all ...

could be temperature sensor  on the water stub and electrical connections to this


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%OAir flow meter issues Au-log10

'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
    

5Back to top Go down   Air flow meter issues Empty Re: Air flow meter issues on Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:50 pm

xatzigiorgis

xatzigiorgis
active member
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What my mechanic did ? ... Just took from me 200 E as it seems  Evil or Very Mad
The seat i fixed it. I also placed windshield and laggages.
The bike is working for 4-5 km and then dies. it starts but can't get more than 1500 rpm. If its cold, you toch the throtle and it dies. If its warm you game with the throttle but just wont give rpm.
I read the topic about the EFI but still can't figure out what is going on. i believe that there's something wrong with the electronic system into the air flow meter

    

6Back to top Go down   Air flow meter issues Empty Re: Air flow meter issues on Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:17 pm

92KK 84WW Olaf

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Because of the age of the K there can be an issue with electrical connections rather than components. Don't be too quick to suspect the air flow meter. The bike is starting, its getting fuel, for 4/5 km it is working properly. Everything worked properly until you did the body work.

So, what was done to the body work and what did the mechanic do? These might let you look at any electrical connections you were working on, under the seat, under the petrol tank, connections to fuel pressure regulator, connections to temperature sensor [I though this would not cause a cut out if it activated while running, instead would not allow a restart].


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Alaska Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 105,200 miles
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 36,188  miles
    

7Back to top Go down   Air flow meter issues Empty Re: Air flow meter issues on Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:38 pm

xatzigiorgis

xatzigiorgis
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@92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:Because of the age of the K there can be an issue with electrical connections rather than components. Don't be too quick to suspect the air flow meter. The bike is starting, its getting fuel, for 4/5 km it is working properly. Everything worked properly until you did the body work.

So, what was done to the body work and what did the mechanic do? These might let you look at any electrical connections you were working on, under the seat, under the petrol tank, connections to fuel pressure regulator, connections to temperature sensor [I though this would not cause a cut out if it activated while running, instead would not allow a restart].
every plug was carefully cleaned and placed back. Of course can be a bad connection and i wonder how could i find it, but i think that if there could be prob with that the bike wont work at all. Why after teasing the moving part of the flow control it works for some time ?

    

8Back to top Go down   Air flow meter issues Empty Re: Air flow meter issues on Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:56 pm

92KK 84WW Olaf

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I had a problem like that and some others have had problems like that too and they will give you some very good posts when they come on line. Don't give up on it because it almost always is something very simple. The reason I asked about the low seat was that there is a unit under the seat that is known to sometimes have a problem with connections, as in all the pins. The K gets its signal from 2 sources, one is when you press the starter button and that is working fine, the second is after then engine fires and its also getting the second signal because it will run properly, but only for 4/5km. Something is either causing the electrical system to lose its spark or the fuel system is losing pressure or something is cutting off the fuel supply [a partially blocked fuel filter or faulty fuel pressure regulator].

I had a problem with an air flow meter in my car and cleaning was not really an option as it rarely worked, replacement was advised and to stay with the Bosch unit. But don't go buying one until someone with a lot more knowledge than me comes along and tells you to do that.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Alaska Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 105,200 miles
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 36,188  miles
    

9Back to top Go down   Air flow meter issues Empty Re: Air flow meter issues on Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:39 pm

Holister

Holister
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There have been strikingly similar symptoms with other members machines. Two just recently. One of those and another a while back seems to be there was an aftermarket immobiliser installed that after years had malfunctioned/shorted.
Can you identify any electrical modifications that may have been done by a PO?
This would likely be in the electrical box under the tank.


__________________________________________________

1989 K100RT     VIN No.  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN No.  0451808
  Air flow meter issues Austra12    Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

10Back to top Go down   Air flow meter issues Empty Re: Air flow meter issues on Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:04 am

charlie99

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very true olaf
did you mean the fi relay   as the second source....we have seen these relays not function recently ...in a few posts ...and all put down to the under tank icu  not grounding out the relay for the function ...when it should be  ... this is sometimes related to the hall effect sensors ...which send pulses to the icu ...if the pulses are not received then things go wrong ......
having said that ...we know that sometimes the hall effects do become temperature sensitive .....and my best guess is that this sounds like a good candidate ...in the fact that it only runs for a few minutes  then dies  ( as heat is experienced ?)



but also if the under seat computer connector  comes loose it certainly will die ...I have experienced this as an intermittent functioning ...and when some extra vibration occurs it did .

just a click to make it sit properly ....after bending the retaining clip so it locked home properly

the under seat connector is where you an test a few things ...look at the circuits and diagrams

to test the temperature sensor ...test with meter on ohms  10,000  or 20,000  between pins 10 and 13 (earth)  at cold should measure about 3000 or so ...as it warms it gets less


whilst doing this ...shake move the terminals to the temperature sensor connector



just out of interest ....has an inspection been done to confirm that there hasn't been any pinching of the cables between the frame and seat ,,etc ?


just some ideas


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%OAir flow meter issues Au-log10

'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
    

11Back to top Go down   Air flow meter issues Empty Re: Air flow meter issues on Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:29 am

Crazy Frog

Crazy Frog
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The bike is working for 4-5 km and then dies. it starts but can't get more than 1500 rpm. If its cold, you touch the throttle and it dies. If its warm you game with the throttle but just wont give rpm.
OK guys, here is a quiz:

What component signals to the fuel management that the throttle is shut off?
The throttle position switch (TPS)
Air flow meter issues Butterfly%20switch

___________________________________________________________________________
The TPS is located at the end of the fuel injector rail. It will cut-off the fuel injector when your are releasing the throttle.
With this system, when decelerating, the fuel injection is disabled until the rpm goes down to 2000rpm. If the engine is still decelerating and the rpm is lower than 2000, the EFI is re-enabled and the injection is controlled again by the FI computer.

___________________________________________________________________________


What if the idle switch (1) in the TPS is defective (maybe sticky) and signals to the EFI that the throttle is off even if you are accelerating?You won't be able to pass the 2000rpm.

My solution would be to disconnect the TPS and see if it solves the problem.

If it was a problem with the HALL sensors, the bike would run on 2 cylinders but
xatzigiorgis has not mention this kind of problem


__________________________________________________
Air flow meter issues Frog15Air flow meter issues Logo2101986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML GT2 sidecar, 1999 K1200lt/Hannigan Astro Sport sidecar.
    

12Back to top Go down   Air flow meter issues Empty Re: Air flow meter issues on Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:54 pm

FissionMailed

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Silver member
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@92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:I had a problem with an air flow meter in my car and cleaning was not really an option as it rarely worked, replacement was advised and to stay with the Bosch unit. But don't go buying one until someone with a lot more knowledge than me comes along and tells you to do that.
Keep in mind that the air flow meters on the older Ks are mechanical and wear differently that the modern car's hot wire anenometer, so they are prone to age-based failure. Physically wiping a metal contact across a conductive surface is a solution that normal usage will eventually cause to fail. There's not too much to simply spray down and clean in them. On the plus side, you can test them pretty easily.

    

13Back to top Go down   Air flow meter issues Empty Re: Air flow meter issues on Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:17 am

xatzigiorgis

xatzigiorgis
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As it seems my problem is at the TPS ... Sad
The air flow meter seems to work nice. I m trying to open the TPS unit but without good result. Somehow it does not open. Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad

    

14Back to top Go down   Air flow meter issues Empty Re: Air flow meter issues on Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:37 am

Crazy Frog

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@xatzigiorgis wrote:As it seems my problem is at the TPS ... Sad
The air flow meter seems to work nice. I m trying to open the TPS unit but without good result. Somehow it does not open. Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad
Just unplug it to test first.
If that solves your problem, you can open it after. The TPS is not essential and a lot of us have it unpluged.


__________________________________________________
Air flow meter issues Frog15Air flow meter issues Logo2101986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML GT2 sidecar, 1999 K1200lt/Hannigan Astro Sport sidecar.
    

15Back to top Go down   Air flow meter issues Empty Re: Air flow meter issues on Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:47 am

Holister

Holister
Life time member
Life time member


__________________________________________________

1989 K100RT     VIN No.  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN No.  0451808
  Air flow meter issues Austra12    Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

16Back to top Go down   Air flow meter issues Empty Re: Air flow meter issues on Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:20 pm

xatzigiorgis

xatzigiorgis
active member
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@Crazy Frog wrote:
@xatzigiorgis wrote:As it seems my problem is at the TPS ... Sad
The air flow meter seems to work nice. I m trying to open the TPS unit but without good result. Somehow it does not open. Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad
Just unplug it to test first.
If that solves your problem, you can open it after. The TPS is not essential and a lot of us have it unpluged.
Now you mention it ... when i was doing my tests i forgot to plug it and the bike waw working. After plugging it and started again the probs , i removed it once more but without any effect. may be i should have removed the battery to reset the possible errors ???

    

17Back to top Go down   Air flow meter issues Empty Re: Air flow meter issues on Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:20 am

xatzigiorgis

xatzigiorgis
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EUREKAAAAA ....
We found the problem and it's the injection unit (under the seat) !
The case is where to find it ...  :pale:

    

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