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1Back to top Go down   Frustrated K100rs Owner Saga Continues Empty Frustrated K100rs Owner Saga Continues on Thu Jun 04, 2015 12:57 pm

robdiaz44

robdiaz44
active member
active member
Well...I'm back. After replacing the "under the fuel tank" connector - which resulted in the bike running great for about 2 weeks - just a few days ago, I was riding to work, and about 5 minutes into my ride, the engine stalled out. I let the bike cool, and for the next hour, I attempted to start it without success. The next day, the bike started right up...I let the bike idle for a few minutes, then I kept it revved at about 2500 to 3000 rpm...after about 6 minutes (I used a stop watch), the engine stalled. I let the bike sit for about 4 hours...started right up again...I repeated the "revving test"...sure enough, after about 6 minutes, the engine stalled...and this time, the bike was sputtering for the first few minutes.

After I replaced the fuel tank connector and got the bike running a few weeks ago, I did the hair dryer HES test...no issues. The wires of the HES also looked really good...like new. I have read that early K bikes had "vapor lock" issues.?.?

Before spending the money on replacing the HES, are there any other potential "engine goblins" I could search for?

Thanks in advance...

Rob

    

SteveK1

SteveK1
Silver member
Silver member
Coils?

  They tend to quit once hot, if going bad


__________________________________________________
BMW K1 1990
BMW R60 /5 1973
BMW R100R 1992
Honda CB360T 1975
    

Crazy Frog

Crazy Frog
admin
admin
It would be interesting to test the Hall sensors just after the bike stalled. The hair dryer is a good test, but it may not provide enough heat.
As the bike takes a long time before it restarts, this gives you enough time to remove the tank and access the connector.


__________________________________________________
Frustrated K100rs Owner Saga Continues Frog15Frustrated K100rs Owner Saga Continues Logo2101986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML GT2 sidecar, 1999 K1200lt/Hannigan Astro Sport sidecar.
    

Avenger GT

Avenger GT
Life time member
Life time member
Another weapon in the battle with semiconductors which are suspected of breaking down when hot is freezer spray. When the fault is present, hit the suspect with a shot of spray and see if it starts working again.

    

Crazy Frog

Crazy Frog
admin
admin
@Avenger GT wrote:Another weapon in the battle with semiconductors which are suspected of breaking down when hot is freezer spray. When the fault is present, hit the suspect with a shot of spray and see if it starts working again.
I believe that you are the first one giving this solution, and this is a lot faster than removing the tank to access the HES connector.
It also has the advantage of concentrating on only a specific portion of the circuit.
This method of troubleshooting could also apply to the coil.
Big thumb


__________________________________________________
Frustrated K100rs Owner Saga Continues Frog15Frustrated K100rs Owner Saga Continues Logo2101986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML GT2 sidecar, 1999 K1200lt/Hannigan Astro Sport sidecar.
    

robdiaz44

robdiaz44
active member
active member
@Crazy Frog wrote:
@Avenger GT wrote:Another weapon in the battle with semiconductors which are suspected of breaking down when hot is freezer spray. When the fault is present, hit the suspect with a shot of spray and see if it starts working again.
I believe that you are the first one giving this solution, and this is a lot faster than removing the tank to access the HES connector.
It also has the advantage of concentrating on only a specific portion of the circuit.
This method of troubleshooting could also apply to the coil.
Big thumb
So...silly question...and forgive my ignorance...where exactly would I spray the freezer spray as it relates to the Hall Sensor and the coils?

    

Crazy Frog

Crazy Frog
admin
admin


__________________________________________________
Frustrated K100rs Owner Saga Continues Frog15Frustrated K100rs Owner Saga Continues Logo2101986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML GT2 sidecar, 1999 K1200lt/Hannigan Astro Sport sidecar.
    

Crazy Frog

Crazy Frog
admin
admin
@robdiaz44 wrote:
So...silly question...and forgive my ignorance...where exactly would I spray the freezer spray as it relates to the Hall Sensor and the coils?
Sorry, I didn't answer your question.
First, you will start with spraying the HES, and then if it doesn't produce any positive result you will spray the coils(maybe one at the time).
The goal is to find in a really short time which component fails under heat(before the natural cooling occurs and the bike starts again).
The advantage of carrying a can of freezer spray in your tool box is that you could troubleshoot very quickly on the side of the road, and if you find the failing component you could cool it down in order to ride again to your work shop to replace the culprit.


__________________________________________________
Frustrated K100rs Owner Saga Continues Frog15Frustrated K100rs Owner Saga Continues Logo2101986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML GT2 sidecar, 1999 K1200lt/Hannigan Astro Sport sidecar.
    

robdiaz44

robdiaz44
active member
active member
Thanks so much Crazy Frog, Avenger and Steve...I will find me some freeze spray and get on it.

    

10Back to top Go down   Frustrated K100rs Owner Saga Continues Empty Re: Frustrated K100rs Owner Saga Continues on Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:02 pm

robdiaz44

robdiaz44
active member
active member
So, I have a friend who does some bike mechanic-ing...he took my bike to his shop. He started it up and let it idle...and, sure enough, after about 6 minutes, it stalled out. He pulled the number 1 spark plug wire off, put an older plug in the wire harness and just let it hang against the bike. The bike started up...the bike idled okay on 3 cylinders for about 15 minutes, never stalling out. He shut the bike off and, with the same set up, restarted it a few minutes later...same thing, idled for about 15 minutes without stalling. To note, the cooling fan cycled on and off a few times - he didn't think the issues was HES since the engine got hot enough for the fan to cycle a few times. Also didn't think the coils were the issue. We're still scratching out head. He was next going to start checking the ignition wiring...any other ideas?

Thanks,

Rob

    

11Back to top Go down   Frustrated K100rs Owner Saga Continues Empty Re: Frustrated K100rs Owner Saga Continues on Fri Jun 12, 2015 9:19 pm

robmack

robmack
Life time member
Life time member
Have you checked valve clearances? Maybe the gaps are too narrow, causing these problems as the engine warms up.


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Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

12Back to top Go down   Frustrated K100rs Owner Saga Continues Empty Re: Frustrated K100rs Owner Saga Continues on Sat Jun 13, 2015 2:52 am

Holister

Holister
Life time member
Life time member
Heat seams to be playing a factor and as far as I can see there are only 3 parts that would cause the motor to stall when hot. HES, HT (coils, leads & SPs) and valve clearances.

If you think you've ruled out the HES, then checking the impedance on the coils, leads & SPs would be next imo. Easy to do. SPs can seem to spark just fine but under compression and at high temps they can fail miserably. Have you pulled the SPs? If one or two are fowling they could be dud.

Checking exhaust valve clearances as rob suggests would be the next bet.
Q. When it starts to stall, can you keep the motor going by giving it a little throttle to keep it above 4k then throttle off and it dies?? If so, then its gotta be exhaust valve clearances imo.


__________________________________________________

1989 K100RT     VIN No.  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN No.  0451808
  Frustrated K100rs Owner Saga Continues Austra12    Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

13Back to top Go down   Frustrated K100rs Owner Saga Continues Empty Re: Frustrated K100rs Owner Saga Continues on Thu Jun 18, 2015 12:57 am

robdiaz44

robdiaz44
active member
active member
Coils, SP's and leads look good...haven't yet checked the valve clearances yet. But, my mechanic buddy put the SP lead #1 back on and the bike started right up and stayed idling for a long time (15 to 20 minutes).

While the bike was idling, he checked the voltage reading on the battery...it gave readings anywhere from 10 to 16.

He took the voltage regulator off to look at and measure the brushes...they were about 5mm. I will definitely be getting some new brushes for the regulator. Question is...could this be causing the stalling issue? Mind you, it never stalled out during the time the bike was idling and/or being revved today (engine got hot enough that the fan cycled on and off a few times)...not sure if heat is the issue anymore. He commented that he was revving the bike pretty high, which allows the brushes to "seat" better than if it was revving at low rpm (which is how I typically ride the bike as most of my riding is in the city - stop and go riding).?.?

    

14Back to top Go down   Frustrated K100rs Owner Saga Continues Empty Re: Frustrated K100rs Owner Saga Continues on Thu Jun 18, 2015 4:39 am

charlie99

charlie99
VIP
VIP
quick answer is yes

if the bike is idling under 1100 or so ...and the battery lamp has not extinguished *( a quick rev can get over this issue )

the voltage can decrease to a level where the whole system crashes somewhat

yes get a new regulator

yes clean all the contacts on the alternator properly ...including the little finger that connects to the field exciter terminals on the alternator

 Frustrated K100rs Owner Saga Continues 11187398_10202785018266744_8771838515138085436_o

some times a clean up of the commutater rings is also required ...some really fine wet and dry (1200) could clean then up


good luck


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%OFrustrated K100rs Owner Saga Continues Au-log10

'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
    

15Back to top Go down   Frustrated K100rs Owner Saga Continues Empty Re: Frustrated K100rs Owner Saga Continues on Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:40 am

Holister

Holister
Life time member
Life time member
@robdiaz44 wrote:......

While the bike was idling, he checked the voltage reading on the battery...it gave readings anywhere from 10 to 16.
......
Check the charge voltage across the battery at >2000rpm. Taking a reading at idle doesn't mean anything.
You should be getting something up around 14 volts and it should be fairly stable.

Could it be that the #1 lead was not making proper contact with the SP? Do you have connectors screwed to the top of your SPs?


__________________________________________________

1989 K100RT     VIN No.  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN No.  0451808
  Frustrated K100rs Owner Saga Continues Austra12    Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

16Back to top Go down   Frustrated K100rs Owner Saga Continues Empty Re: Frustrated K100rs Owner Saga Continues on Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:48 am

Dai

Dai
Life time member
Life time member
I'm not sure that cleaning the slip rings is a good idea. Clean any crud around and between them but not the rings themselves (unless there's obvious signs of lumpy build up of dirt). The reason being that the copper doesn't have a perfect surface - it's full of minute pits - and those pits get filled in with brush graphite. This gives a better surface for the brushes to run on and - in theory - reduces brush wear over time.


__________________________________________________
'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec, '87 K100RT
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
    

17Back to top Go down   Frustrated K100rs Owner Saga Continues Empty Re: Frustrated K100rs Owner Saga Continues on Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:51 am

RicK G

RicK G
VIP
VIP
I am not too keen on using the wet/dry sand paper as the grit embeds into the copper. I always use a lathe to clean them up and if it needs to have more than 1mm removed chuck it. I cant remember if it was here or the Kawasaki forum where someone used emery tape and it now eats a set of brushes for lunch each day.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki
    

18Back to top Go down   Frustrated K100rs Owner Saga Continues Empty Re: Frustrated K100rs Owner Saga Continues on Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:27 am

robmack

robmack
Life time member
Life time member
When I worked at a company that refurbished computer equipment, they used an ink eraser to clean contacts. It is abrasive enough to clean off corrsion but left no residue behind and did not change the electrical characteristics. Pencil eraser won't work the same though.


__________________________________________________
Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

19Back to top Go down   Frustrated K100rs Owner Saga Continues Empty Re: Frustrated K100rs Owner Saga Continues on Thu Jun 18, 2015 12:09 pm

robdiaz44

robdiaz44
active member
active member
Kaptain Holister wrote:Check the charge voltage across the battery at >2000rpm. Taking a reading at idle doesn't mean anything.
You should be getting something up around 14 volts and it should be fairly stable.

Could it be that the #1 lead was not making proper contact with the SP? Do you have connectors screwed to the top of your SPs?

Thanks all for the feedback...

* Kaptain: I actually mis-spoke what was going on: the bike wasn't just idling...my friend was "idling"/revving it much of the time between 2000 to 3000rpm, then at various times opening it up to 5000 to 7000rpm. Most of the time, volts were fluctuating between 12 to 13.4...never stabilizing in that 13.8 to 14 range. Also, not sure if I have connectors screwed to the top of the SP's...I will check that.

* Charlie: Are you recommending that I replace the voltage regulator rather than replacing just the brushes on my existing regulator?

    

20Back to top Go down   Frustrated K100rs Owner Saga Continues Empty Re: Frustrated K100rs Owner Saga Continues on Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:04 pm

Holister

Holister
Life time member
Life time member
The voltage regulator and brushes are the one unit. 5mm is the limit on the brushes so the unit needs to be replaced. The best I've found is from EME .

The low/fluctuating charging voltage would be the wornout brushes but the voltage regulators don't last either. I think that's why they designed the regulator and brushes together so it would get replaced regularly.


__________________________________________________

1989 K100RT     VIN No.  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN No.  0451808
  Frustrated K100rs Owner Saga Continues Austra12    Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

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