The other day, as I pulled up and stopped the engine, I found myself taken aback by a continuously whirring starter motor.
What on earth can you do? Everything's switched off - you can't switch it off any 'more' even though your stupid, base instincts try to make you do this. The situation certainly grabs your attention, because as well as being confronted with an interesting old brain teaser, you've got the added knowledge that the whirring will continue until the battery gasps its last. Then what?

Hmm, the sum total of my eventual 'fix', was standing there, looking concerned, and 'hoping' - that the thing didn't catch fire before the battery died. I probably didn't make much difference.

I now know, via the past and present members of this forum of course, that a slightly welded starter relay was to blame - possibly due to a low battery voltage causing chatter, overheating, and fusion of the contacts.
  
So I fitted this:


...which is cheapo, 300 Amp* cutout switch with one terminal screwed directly onto the battery post, and the +ve wire transplanted onto the other. Now master, I am in control!

*Chinese Amps, now I'll probably have that fire.

I use the instrument cluster clock on my Ks.  Every time you use that switch you will need to reset the clock.

However, if you're only going to use it as an "emergency" switch in the event of a starter relay weld then that's not a big issue.

duck wrote:I use the instrument cluster clock on my Ks.  Every time you use that switch you will need to reset the clock.

However, if you're only going to use it as an "emergency" switch in the event of a starter relay weld then that's not a big issue.

Thanks for making me remember that I need to install these disconnects.  Another good incarceration project.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Amass-AS150-7mm-Anti-Spark-Connector-Plug-fr-RC-FPV-Power-Supply-/183998058018?hash=item2ad7238e22

May I suggest that you document that modification for the benefit of those of us who are electrical dunces?  A "how to" post would be very much appreciated. 

There are more than one type of isolator and they do have a couple more uses depending on the type. They can be used to isolate the whole electrical system when working on the electrics. The ones with the removable key can be used as a security device if you remove the key. As per Duck the downside is minor, resetting the clock.  http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,8995.msg70926.html#msg70926
Regards Martin.

As a fellow dunce to another, all this achieves is the equivalent of ripping the positive lead off the battery - as an emergency means of stopping the starter motor in case you suffer from a starter relay that's stuck on.

Martin's diagram shows its simplicity.

I didn't go for the removable key type, because A: I'd lose it, and B: if I didn't remove it, somebody else might...

FWIW, once I'd got access to the starter relay and disconnected the starter motor lead from the terminal (and thereby stopped any current flowing flowing across the contacts) the starter relay freed itself after a few presses of the starter button. I didn't realise this was happening though - I was just pressing the starter button with one hand and feeling for the relay clicking with the other - I could feel the clicks getting 'bigger' the more I carried on pressing the button and I guess this eventually freed it off. Once I'd consulted this forum I realised that others have achieved the same effect by just whacking the relay.

If anyone's interested I'll add some pics of the mounting post/adaptor that shows how the cutout switch is fastened onto the battery post - it's on the Madass, but I guess the battery location on a real K might allow room for a similar fitment.

Some alternate approaches for dealing with a stuck starter relay:

1 - Detach the ground to transmission connection in front of the shift lever. (Not applicable to 94+ K1100s.)

2 - Whack the right rear corner of the relay box with a crescent wrench or whatever. Sometimes this will jolt the starter relay enough to unstick it. (a.k.a. The Fonzie approach. )

On our Brissie workshop day held at Matts place I did a variation of my hookup. We fitted the same switch to Paul's K100LT which had more room than my 75. His battery has reversed posts so it was mounted on a much shorter lead from the battery to the switch and was rotated 90 Deg more than mine. As Matt had the appropriate sized crimpers the new lugs were crimped instead of soldered.  I can access mine without removing the side cover whereas Paul has to remove his. Matt may be able to get Paul to take and send pictures. As an aside his relay jammed not long after the switch was fitted and came in handy.
Regards Martin.

brickrider2 wrote:May I suggest that you document that modification for the benefit of those of us who are electrical dunces?  A "how to" post would be very much appreciated. 

Will do.  Right now the disconnects are laying on the workbench out in the garage.  After a couple cups of coffee considering the best way to accomplish the job I have the following:

Since I only need one disconnect to kill the electrical system, I can do two bikes with what I have. 

I need to accommodate my Eastern Beaver headlight relay harness connections.  Makes the positive terminal a little busy.  Also, on my K75RT the positive cable from the battery has several individual wires that will make the splicing in of the disconnect a bit tricky.  Not going to go that way.

The negative battery terminal only has one wire connected to it and it goes to the ground point on the transmission.

My plan is to get a piece of battery cable and making a new ground cable with the disconnect to run from the negative terminal on the battery to the point on the transmission.  I want to use some flexible wire and route it so it's easily accessible near the fuse block on the side of the relay box.

It looks like this cable will not only make it easy to disconnect in an emergency, but it will also make it unnecessary to disconnect the cable at the battery which is a litlle bit harder than the positive.  I hope to get up the ambition to make it happen tomorrow.

As for the clock: run a separate 16/0.2 or similar wire from the battery positive to fuse 1. Five minutes work and no irritation at having to reset the clock multiple times.

Dai wrote:As for the clock: run a separate 16/0.2 or similar wire from the battery positive to fuse 1. Five minutes work and no irritation at having to reset the clock multiple times.

The clock is powered by Fuse 3.  Fuse 3 is unswitched and has two red/white output wires.  One goes to the flasher relay and the other goes to Pin 1 of the instrument cluster to power the clock.

But hooking up to any of the unswitched fuses (3, 4, 5, 7) would also get power to the clock because on the input side they all go straight to the battery.

MartinW wrote:On our Brissie workshop day held at Matts place I did a variation of my hookup. We fitted the same switch to Paul's K100LT which had more room than my 75. His battery has reversed posts so it was mounted on a much shorter lead from the battery to the switch and was rotated 90 Deg more than mine. As Matt had the appropriate sized crimpers the new lugs were crimped instead of soldered.  I can access mine without removing the side cover whereas Paul has to remove his. Matt may be able to get Paul to take and send pictures. As an aside his relay jammed not long after the switch was fitted and came in handy.
Regards Martin.

Hope I’m not hijacking the thread, 

Here you go Martin from the workshop day: 



My take on it, slightly different location tucked behind the lift handle on a small bracket:



Regards,

Dan

I ride (alone) and have some rest (alone with the K) to enjoy to see others doing the same as they ride and drive by

Arlina wrote:I ride (alone) and have some rest (alone with the K) to enjoy to see others doing the same as they ride and drive by

There's still a fair amount of bikes out where I live.  (I live on a popular motorcycle highway - US 101.) Saw several ten bike gaggles of HDs riding over the weekend.

I live outside a village on the northern edge of the hills leading down into the Allegheny Mountains of Western Pennsylvania.  A lot of nice rides come through town.  Been seeing a lot more than the usual number of "Spring is here" bikes on the roads.  Surprising, considering the usual watering hole destinations are all closed up.

The upside is that in two weeks I've seen just one sheriff on the roads.  The New York State Police are nowhere to be seen.

An isolating switch as shown is a simple fix and we all probably need to do it. Along with an upgrade to the earth wire size. But when Mine did this I turned it back on and let it idle until I could undo the gearbox earth strap. Then came home and asked what to do and many way back then said whack it The EL box under the tank. And yes it does work if you wack it, poor bike.

K75cster wrote:An isolating switch as shown is a simple fix and we all probably need to do it. 

I disagree.  The starter relay thing isn't all that common in my experience.  There's no doubt that it does happen but there's no guarantee that it will happen. I've owned something like 30ish of these bikes and over the years have run down my fair share of batteries for various reasons.  Knock wood but I've never had a single one weld the starter relay. YMMV

IMO it's one of those things where you hear about it if it goes wrong but you won't hear about it if it doesn't go wrong. i.e. You'll not often have someone tell you that their starter relay DIDN'T weld.

I don't think a battery switch is necessarily a bad idea. I just don't think it's "must have" mod.

I wonder if you fitted a decent size electrolytic capacitor across the starter relay terminals would it prevent it welding when it chatters with a low voltage battery problem , it would "quench" the arcing across the terminals but have no affect in normal operation , in fact it might extend the life of the contacts as arcing on opening would be eliminated .....
Just a thought

Regards
Bill

I have had one weld shut on me and the mad scramble to get the gear off the seat then the terminal off convinced me to put a 50A Andersen plug on the battery leads which also makes it easier to get out and in one situation about 6 years ago the only battery I could get had the terminals on the opposite corners and it was possible to fit it due to extra length in the leads.

10 years and 130,000 miles on 4 Ks it hasn't happened yet.

Batteries don't trouble me as the local and very helpful lawnmower shop sells me batteries for less than €50 so any hint of trouble is easily sorted.

But...my shed does have a spare relay in it....

92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:

10 years and 130,000 miles on 4 Ks it hasn't happened yet.

Batteries don't trouble me as the local and very helpful lawnmower shop sells me batteries for less than €50 so any hint of trouble is easily sorted.

But...my shed does have a spare relay in it....

That's why you never had a problem.  Spares work.

Point-Seven-five wrote:

That's why you never had a problem.  Spares work.

It's the converse of Murphy's Law: Whatever you carry a spare of will never fail.

I carry spare clutch and throttle cables in all of  my Ks. Never had one fail. I also carry a spare rear half of the drive shaft in my 4Vs to keep the U-joint from blowing up.

The only exception is that since starting to carry a tire repair kit I have had one flat when it came in quite handy.

duck wrote:

Point-Seven-five wrote:

That's why you never had a problem.  Spares work.

It's the converse of Murphy's Law: Whatever you carry a spare of will never fail.

I carry spare clutch and throttle cables in all of  my Ks. Never had one fail. I also carry a spare rear half of the drive shaft in my 4Vs to keep the U-joint from blowing up.

The only exception is that since starting to carry a tire repair kit I have had one flat when it came in quite handy.

Absolutely!  And I carry the barrel end thing and a felt as well.

About that drive shaft, if it was me, carrying the back half would be begging the front u-joint to blow up somewhere way off the beaten path.

Fueled up, check tires, oil and lights.
Spend some days some hours sunbathing  

My R12RT is sitting for 4 years now, waiting for a new clutch.
Got some fresh fuel, took the old battery out, and connected a car battery.
Fired it up, and in no time it's alive!
Everything still works   
Even that f***** tanklint still works  
Clutch still need to be done....

I've had the relay weld shut 3 times. The first time was just after I got it, it stuck closed with the starter turning over. Before I could work out how to turn it off the side of the battery blew out with acid going everywhere. I was lucky that I had water to douse the bike with. With the help of a few guys it was pushed started and I got her home. Second two times I pulled the earth lead at the gearbox, burning my finger once. I then fitted the isolator switch. Murphy's law has since come into play and I haven't had to use it.  
Regards Martin.

No. 4: Rebuild a water/oil pump for something K-related to do.

Whilst rummaging around looking for something that I didn't end up finding...
...I did come across a forgotten water/oil pump that offered very nicely to occupy me for a few hours.
I had to heat the impeller bolt before it would loosen, but probs no more than about a million degrees centigrade. I'm now wondering whether to rebuild as is (the seals still seem nice and firm around the shaft, despite the blowlamp assault) or rebuild with new seals, or scrap the impeller shaft completely. Here's a pic of the pitting - I've already tried polishing it in the lathe:


Any success/failure stories/recommendations with this amount of pitting?