I don't wish to start a dreaded oil thread, but I'm curious if any K-bike riders are using one of the oil additives with nano ... what? Nano particles?  As usual, the advertising hype promises the moon, but 'buyer beware' is still the operative norm for me.
I expect the engine in my K100RS will outlive me, but I noticed scuffing on the cam lobes of another bike I have, which suggests I need to give more thought to the oil I give her.

I'll jump in...

I use no additives, good old 10w40 or 20w50 depending on ambient temperature.

Regular changes of oil and filter, using a quality oil (Penrite or Valvoline).

Let the fun begin...

People are so blinkered that they won't even use modern synthetic oil! Some people think that it is best to use old tractor diesel oil in their bikes. You don't think that anyone is going to use anything modern with the word nano in it do you?

brickrider wrote:I'm curious if any K-bike riders are using one of the oil additives with nano ...

No. I'm not and I don't buy in to much advertising of any kind. I believe 98% of it to be sales pitch with 2% truth behind the hype. I have read here (and else where) that our K bikes do suffer from sludge buildup, which can annoy the starter clutches, and perhaps a good option is to use an oil with a high detergent in it (eg motor oil designed supposedly for diesel engines). That is if you believe that it IS in fact higher in detergents and actually different from regular grade oils. Might just be MORE advertising . .  who knows.

I am with the other poster above me. Straight good old 10w40 or 20w50 depending on ambient temperature.

Regular changes of oil and filter, using a quality oil (Penrite or Valvoline).

When I do the oil changes, every second or third one I take the base cover off the engine and clean the oil pickup as well.

And, as bugs bunny would say . . .  that's all folks

bikerboy wrote:People are so blinkered that they won't even use modern synthetic oil! Some people think that it is best to use old tractor diesel oil in their bikes. You don't think that anyone is going to use anything modern with the word nano in it do you?

I'm not at all blinkered but while the oil companies are trying to get my money in chunks like the  a**holes charge for synthetic I will not use it or even consider using it.

I'm not "blinkered' when it comes to synthetic oil; I cannot see the reason to use overpriced synthetic oil if I change the oil and filter every 10 thousand kilometres.

My old Ford Falcon went for 320,000 kilometres on dino oil...and still would have been working, if it wasn't for the fire. But that's another story.

I am not blinkered either and when synthetic costs slightly more than mineral I will use it for the protection against over heating of the oil. Once again many modern diesel oils are virtually the same as petrol oils, perhaps a little thinner. As I have said many times BMW will not recommend diesel oil so why do individuals think that they know better. All BMW cars use synthetic these days.

"My old Ford Falcon went for 320,000 kilometres on dino oil...and still would have been working, if it wasn't for the fire. But that's another story."

This is another of those statements where someone assumes that a one off occurrence proves a trend. That is the same as saying that your grandad smoked 40 fags a day till he dies at 110 years old, so smoking cannot be bad for you.

I have expressed my opinion on this subject before so do not wish to add more fuel to the fire, will stick with the type of oil I have used for the last 30 odd years with no problems. Within this excellent Forum there certainly are a number of owners of K's that have rack up some very impressive mileage's, what oils do you use and any problems? John

Ok it is an oil thread , 
Where i life castrol xl classic 20/50 mineral oil cost aprox . 100 dkk pr. L
and the castrol edge 10/60 fully synthetic cost 100dkk pr. L.
guess what i am using in the k?

Yes , castrol.  

k-rider

... what? Nano particles? it is a good question Brickrider, I wouldn't use any Nano products on my skin, for example sun screen! as Nano particles are so small there is a possibility that the particles will pass through the skin. But does make me wonder what Nano particles are used in oil additives  and oils, as I can understand why oil companies ect are playing with Nano. If you were to look at say a camshaft journal under a microscope you would see highs and lows ( valleys ) which can't be seen by eye or felt with your hand, and it's these valley's that the oil products are trying deal with, as if the product can fill the valleys better it reduces friction and wear. so makes sense to me.

"as if the product can fill the valleys better it reduces friction and wear. so makes sense to me"

You don't need to fill them just to stop them rubbing on the other surface opposite them. That is what the long chain molecules in synthetic oil is designed to do.

bikerboy wrote:"as if the product can fill the valleys better it reduces friction and wear. so makes sense to me"

You don't need to fill them just to stop them rubbing on the other surface opposite them. That is what the long chain molecules in synthetic oil is designed to do.

This sounds to me like a devils advocate thread . .  at best. Probably nil of us are oil engineers or have the lab resources to correctly test and assess nano and its effects. Therefore IMHO the whole subject is probably best left alone.

bikerboy wrote:I am not blinkered either and when synthetic costs slightly more than mineral (more than double here) I will use it for the protection against over heating of the oil. I have NEVER had an engine failure due to overheating oil Once again many modern diesel oils are virtually the same as petrol oils, perhaps a little thinner. As I have said many times BMW will not recommend diesel oil so why do individuals think that they know better. We don't but BMW don't have to deal with engines that have done 2-300000kn over a 25 year period All BMW cars use synthetic these days. And

"My old Ford Falcon went for 320,000 kilometres on dino oil...and still would have been working, if it wasn't for the fire. But that's another story."
My old Ford Falcon went for 470,000 kilometres on dino oil...and still would have been working, if it wasn't for the transmission failure. But that's another story  IT IS NOT A ONE OFF

This is another of those statements where someone assumes that a one off occurrence proves a trend. That is the same as saying that your grandad smoked 40 fags a day till he dies at 110 years old, so smoking cannot be bad for you.

Boy have you been conned about how much better this synthetic oil is than Dino oil under normal operating conditions.

If operating a race engine under severe conditions there is a definate advantage but don't try to tell me that because synthetic works better under race conditions in high horsepower engines it works better in an understressed engine at normal operating temperatures.

"This is another of those statements where someone assumes that a one off occurrence proves a trend. That is the same as saying that your grandad smoked 40 fags a day till he dies at 110 years old, so smoking cannot be bad for you."

I was going to respond by wailing on about dino v synthetics, but I shan't.

brickrider asked the question and I gave my opinion. I'm not saying what I do is the right thing; it works for me.

It's an opinion.

When I said I didn't wish to start a dreaded oil thread, my intent was to discourage the endless back and forth over "dino" oil v. synthetic; cost comparisons, etc.  Those never resolve anything. With technology racing onward, it seems to me that considering nano technology in oil has merit. I've only seen little actual test/comparison data however. Mostly it's just advertising hype. A notable exception is a Finnish company, the name of which escapes me just now. That company website reproduces what seem to be reputable test results.  A breath of fresh air....


http://www.nanoltechnologies.com/references

indeed brickrider

I have seen quite a few technical shows of the advancing chemistry ....and a few along those lines of which you speak

seems we will have a positive future in lubrication development

I guess in time we might even see some major manufacturer recommend or specify those oils-additives in the future

"Boy have you been conned about how much better this synthetic oil is than Dino oil under normal operating conditions."
 Another aggressive post by Rick. The man who tells me that I have been conned when he knows nothing about my engineering background. The same man who quite forcefully tells people to put the wrong oil (diesel) in their petrol bikes because he uses it.
I wonder why I bother being a part of this forum.

Are nano particles smaller than micron particles???????? just wondering if what you put in you can get out with a simple oil change, or do we use a nano filter with the new oil?????

Come on Guest, Tells us what you know. John

"guest" .....usually means that the member has left the forum (cancelled account or some such )

we are a community of like minded folks that offer suggestions to known issues and often proven resolutions (in any case no intentionally destructive or defamatory suggestions ) 

opinions are opinions ...and the greater collective will decipher what's right or wrong for themselves  ...fortunately


remember, some folks are quite open ...or frank or even blunt about their thoughts ...the manner may (on the most part ) or may not be  likeable or acceptable in some cases,  but their point has equal value as it is their opinion .


the ability to agree or disagree with some form of respect, to all ,,,is paramount .

just think about some of these things when replying on any subject at hand and before you post in the open forum (it may even be a better solution to carry comments that may be less than kosher to some form of private message )

I might remind all members that personal attacks will not be tolerated in here, at all . period .

I am in full agreement with Charlie. We have something special here, and have since its inception by Crazy Frog; an informed and informative forum with a degree of politeness and manners displayed by the many. We joke that it's an often an asylum for the like-minded, but I for one don't wish to see it go down the path of tit for tat, oneupsmanship, foolishness like so many other public access domains. I also dislike seeing productive members go off in a huff.

Now, whose 'shout' is it?

cheers dazza

slides a tall "cold one" along the bar   ...way >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over there

and a few 6 packs  for those afflicted with the "k"pox ....but late on the run home

 

Guest wrote:I wonder why I bother being a part of this forum.

Because, at the end, this is the best and more knowledgeable forum...and not just on Ks

Hey brickrider, I tried to read this, but gave up after getting a headache... 

Guest wrote:
 Another aggressive post by Rick.

It seems like a piece of furniture/inventory called mirrors is totally missing in the
homes in south of France.

I am not in a position to offer an opinion on nano particles, but progress is rarely a bad thing as far as oils and fuels are concerned.  Even if we choose to use 'old-fashioned' oil, it is different stuff to the 20W50 we glugged into our engines forty or fifty years ago.  It has better detergents these days and we reap the benefits.

When I was a kid, I used to hear of motorists performing a decoke on their engines, possibly every 20,000 miles or even more often.  These days engines run for ever without heads being removed.  Modern fuels burn so much more cleanly, and the lubricants are improved nearly beyond all measure.

Yes, oil companies do want to separate us from our gold, and some of the benefits they ascribe to the use of their products may be exaggerated, but modern stuff is not all snake oil.

I'd agree, with one reservation.  Here in the US, the govt apparently mandated that zinc additives be reduced in many oils, to save catalytic converters.  That may have caused scoring on the cams of one of my bikes. I'm now paying more attention to lubricants.     

You say about the scoring on the cams, I recall that you had a problem with that but not the details.
I have a couple of engines here that have scored cams with the damage limited to the centre of the journals, on the cam and journals in the head.
Alby had one that did that and I was wondering if yours was the same. I have never delved into the zinc levels and don't know how oil here compares with oil in US but would be interesting to find out.
I would say there has to be a common explanation.

The bike with the cam issue is not my K100RS, Rick.  It's my Laverda.  The journals may be scored  but I have not examined them yet.  What caught my eye was the lobes of the cam.  I've put a fair amount of miles on this model Laverda over many years but never seen any scoring on the cam lobes before.    
As often as not, I've bought whatever oil was on sale, not being too concerned if it was specifically formulated (marketed?) for motorcycles.  However, if the manufacturer called for 10/40 or whatever, that would go into the bike.
As I said, I'm now paying more attention to lubrication.

Thanks I shall have to keep wondering.  I have been using the Shell Helix HX5 for many years mainly because I get it from a mate here at a good price but I have never had problems with it. The oil I steer well clear of is the generic brands that the supermarkets sell they usually are reclaimed oil and I suppose meet the definition of oil but only just.
When I think back there has been tremendous advances in oil technology over the last thirty years and I consider that it is those advances that are giving us so much more mileage from an engine. When I was doing my apprentice ship in the 70s getting 150k miles from a 6 cyl ford engine was good going and now they are often getting 500k miles and they are putting out far more power for each litre capacity than ever before.

RicK G wrote: When I was doing my apprentice ship in the 70s getting 150k miles from a 6 cyl ford engine was good going and now they are often getting 500k miles and they are putting out far more power for each litre capacity than ever before.

I have to agree man. I run a commodore SV6 2006, @3.2 litre and 195bhp it amazes me. A lot more stoke than the old 3.6 or 3.8s put out. mind you it is a V configuration. But still, only a 3.2 litre