This might seem a rather odd post. I’m hoping to get my Hedingham chair frame off to the powder coaters tomorrow.
 
However before I do that I have welded a few brackets on. For headlamp on the chair frame so that travelling at night, oncoming vehicles do not just see “one eye” coming towards them.
 
Brackets for air horns between the bike and chair. A bracket for the compressor.
 
A bracket for a six pin plug/socket for the wiring loom to make it easy to disconnect.
 
Can anybody else think what else could go on? A bracket for a spare fuel can or is that naff?
 

Serious suggestions only please!

touchwoodsden wrote:
Serious suggestions only please!

You're no fun.  

Bracket for spare fuel can is not naff, especially if you plan on any decent trips. But first find yourself a decent metal 5 gallon one and make brackets to suit. If you are planning wild camping trips in remote places it can also double up as a support for a similar size water carrier. I used to use a 1 gallon/5 litre one for water for such trips when I would camp on a beach head away from fresh water.

You also should sort a rear fog light. I am not sure if its compulsory but definitely very wise. You will have to centre it or keep it to the right of centre.

On a sidecar AFAIK a fog light is compulsory in the UK and so are a set of hazard flashers. Don't be afraid to load the sidecar with electrical options for the passenger (heated clothing, etc.). If you're still running the 33amp alternator then a 50amp one from an LT is a drop fit. If that's not enough, it's possible to fit the guts of the later 60amp ones into the 50amp carcass. If you're not sure what you want to put in the sidecar, just add a decent feed wire 'for later'. The sidecar could have its own fusebox.

Thanks for the replies. I had already planned on putting an auxiliary socket in the chair for exactly that purpose Paul.
I will look around for a fuel can but I would prefer I think 10 L purely because of the weight. I have 35 gallon/25 L military jerry cans and full, they are extremely heavy.
On one of my MZ’ solos I have a 3 litre Touratech one (woo hoo).
Water container is a good idea.
 
Fog light is a good idea regardless. I don’t know whether they’re needed or not but what price safety? I think an ideal place would actually be under the rear number plate on the bike itself
 
My bike is a 1990 LT so I guess it will have the bigger alternator… Will it?
When I had my last 750 Honda with Watsonian Monaco I did indeed have a fuse box in the chair although I had a Mini battery in the chair. It gave lots of cranking amps was a bloody nuisance because it took up a whole load of space.
 

With the size of the K battery I don’t think it’s going to be needed TBH although I would bow to the opinions of those more knowledgeable than me.

You could use the 30A battery for the K.

I hope I have this right: The alternator can be swapped to a K1100 unit but if you want a bigger one you can put the innards of a K1200 unit into it. The K1200 unit isn't a straight swap.

How are you dealing with the ABS?

I meant with regard to the brakes on the chair.

Not something I have researched yet but I am planning to go the same route when the time clock ticks too long.

92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:I meant with regard to the brakes on the chair.

Mine is very early chair with no brake. I cannot actually see a way to mount disc or drum on the hub and no sign of brake backplate or caliper ever having been mounted on the chair swing arm.
 
If it did have a chair brake,  the ABS would be bike only!

I realised after I'd posted that you are working with an LT. It should have a 50amp alternator on it as standard; if you're working down by that part of the engine then have a look for the black label on the alternator. The last two digits (usually) followed by a letter A are the amperage. Another giveaway is the battery cable. The 33amp one plugs in with a big spade terminal but the 50amp one has a ring terminal.

Dai wrote:I realised after I'd posted that you are working with an LT. It should have a 50amp alternator on it as standard;

That is correct, if the LT is a 1100 and a -94 year model or later.

Inge K. wrote:

Dai wrote:I realised after I'd posted that you are working with an LT. It should have a 50amp alternator on it as standard;

That is correct, if the LT is a 1100 and a -94 year model or later.

 It runs on acetylene....ahem............. 1990 K100

touchwoodsden wrote: ............. 1990 K100

Then it did have a 32 Amp when it did leave the factory.

Inge K. wrote:

touchwoodsden wrote: ............. 1990 K100

Then it did have a 32 Amp when it did leave the factory.

Forgive me for asking a stupid question then because I don’t know much about current draw as it’s over 50 years since I did it at school.
How many amps do things draw at 12 V?
Headlamp is probably a major one.
Fuel pumps probably another one.
I imagine that the injection and ABS and instruments are very little.
Indicators and stoplight are a big draw but for a very short period of time.
I can’t think what else there is.
So what stage the appetite of the bike be more than is being pushed out by the alternator.
On the old 6V  MZs, the dynamo wasn’t in tiptop condition, if you had the headlights on and the stoplight and flicked the indicators on, the engine died! Happy days

On my oldest one I use heated grips and 2 x 55W aux lights beside the standard
euqipment w/o any problems on a 32A alternator.
.
.
.
Headlamp on main= 60W : 12V = 5A.

Horn, indicators and brakes are classed as 'intermittant loads', so you can count them out. Injectors will be part of the constant load but the ABS, in the absence of any definate information, I'd class as an intermittant load too. Your fog light will be part of the constant load. A half-assed mental calculation says that the standard bike won't be drawing much more than about fourteen amps when on high-beam, so add 2amps for the fog light (unless you use an LED one).

If you still want a 50amp alternator they do come up on ebay from time to time and go for anything between £20 and £50. Motorworks, unfortunately, want £110 for one http://www.motorworks.co.uk/vlive/Shop/Parts.php?T=5&NU=10&M=40&Ct=KA&SbCt=BA_10_40_KA_20 but for another £15 (last time I asked) will make you a 60amp version.

Inge: thanks for the reminder about the year/engine size cutoff.

Dai wrote:Horn, indicators and brakes are classed as 'intermittant loads', so you can count them out. Injectors will be part of the constant load but the ABS, in the absence of any definate information, I'd class as an intermittant load too. Your fog light will be part of the constant load. A half-assed mental calculation says that the standard bike won't be drawing much more than about fourteen amps when on high-beam, so add 2amps for the fog light (unless you use an LED one).

If you still want a 50amp alternator they do come up on ebay from time to time and go for anything between £20 and £50. Motorworks, unfortunately, want £110 for one http://www.motorworks.co.uk/vlive/Shop/Parts.php?T=5&NU=10&M=40&Ct=KA&SbCt=BA_10_40_KA_20 but for another £15 (last time I asked) will make you a 60amp version.

Inge: thanks for the reminder about the year/engine size cutoff.

So even witha heated suit and heated grips, the std genny is more than enough?

If you don't mind your sidecar passenger freezing, then yes, I'd say so You've got a second headlamp, haven't you? That adds five amps (sorry - I'd forgotten about that) and I prefer to leave 2-3amps for the battery to charge. If the heated suit doesn't take more than about 6-8 amps then you will be okay.

For the finished project:

A quick calculation is
2 x 60W for high beam,
2 x 4W for parking lights which stay on
2 x 10W for rear lights.
1 x 21W for fog light
2 x 3W for instrument cluster background
plus 2  x 3w for green low beam and say fuel level. 
That's giving me 181 W or just over 15 amps for lighting including the sidecar lights.

Add extra driving lights?

Add fuel pump?  4 amps.

Add fuel injection system [Clymer doesn't tell me the consumption]?

Add heated grips?' 5 amps.

Add heated suit? 8 amps

Add radio?

Add for consumption in sidecar?

Add for charging battery? 2 amps? 3 amps?

That 32 amp alternator is an up grade from a lower amperage alternator and is fairly much on its limit. Once it gets past 22-23 amps it starts to get voltage drop off and lights get a bit dimmer and charging becomes eratic at best.
I asked a local auto electrician about an upgrade of the alternator and he enquired about it and was told that they were the same as used on one of the VWs and that the upgrade that was done to get it to 32 amps was as far as it would go and not even worth trying.
To be quite honest I would be upgrading to a 50 amp or even 60 amp unit which will give you a lot of leeway.
I was running the usual electricals plus 2 x 55 watt driving lights which by using relays were fairly good or so I thought till I put a 60 amp unit from a K1200 and the difference was very noticeable  in the lights.
With all the lights on and engine at 3000 rpm the voltage was 13.4 at the bulb of the spot lights and when I put the 60 amp unit in it was 14.1 which was 0.1 below the voltage directly at the battery and was the same as when the lights were off. It doesn't get any better than that until the use of super conductors becomes common place.
I have since upgraded to a 100 watt bulb in both spot lights with very little difference in light so I will be going back to the 55 watt bulbs.

My own experience and several other recent threads show that if the battery/charging system isn't up to scratch and the demands of the system, you are going to have resulting problems.

I think RickG is right - the 32 amp alternator is marginal for the load expected, and at least the 50A system would be a really good move.

Bill

RicK G wrote:That 32 amp alternator is an up grade from a lower amperage alternator and is fairly much on its limit. Once it gets past 22-23 amps it starts to get voltage drop off and lights get a bit dimmer and charging becomes eratic at best.

Thanks Rick - I had no idea that the regulator was that poor. I'm used to dealing with systems that give full voltage right up until the last three or four amps.

Olaf - my Cali 1100ie fuel pump is rated at 4 amps draw, so as it's pushing the same pressure as the K100 pump I'd guess it's a safe bet that the K100 pump draws the same? For the fuel injectors, (as Rick reminded me in another thread), each one fires twice per cycle so the average load is quite low. In addition, if you can fire them with a 9volt PP3 battery for cleaning they can't be drawing much current. Still, it would be nice to know just what their current consumption is.

While we're at it, can anyone tell me why some alternators as marked as 32A and other, seemingly identical, ones are marked as 33A? Just a part number change?

Touchwoodsden - I've just had a dig through my garage storage area and turned up a spare 50amp alternator. IIRC that one cost me a pound-per-amp; it's yours for that plus postage. PM me if you're interested.

Conversion from 50amp to 60amp; this was my experience so YMMV. I got a cheap K1200 alternator off ebay for the donor. The drive mechanisms came off first (belt drive on the 60amp, monkey-nuts on the 50amp). I took the regulators off and then removed the stator and armature from both alternators. The stator comes off by just removing the three screws that holds the alternator together. You may need a mallet to separate the casings because of corrosion - I did. Ditto to drive the armature out of the front casings. A bit of heat helps with the armature and IIRC, there's a plate holding the front bearing in. I put the 60amp armature into the 50amp front casing (the bearings are the same) and then bolted up the 60amp stator. This revealed the only problem during the whole process - doing this makes the bearings bind.

To fix it, I separated the casings again, pushed the three bolts through the rear casing and dropped a washer over each bolt before bolting the cases back together again. The washer acts as a spacer. I also put a small smear of copper grease on the back of the rear bearing as a telltale. The armature now spun freely, so I dismantled the assembly for a third time to check my makeshift telltale. I found a tiny amount of spread, just about what I'd expect from what was effectively a very crude check, so the assembly went back together for the last time and the monkey-nut drive was bolted on.

It's been two years since I did this and it's behaved perfectly. There's about 15mm clearance between the back of the alternator and the front of the battery.

Fuel injectors might be low power requirement but what of the ignition system sparks?

I was trying to do the maths on a post partly for my own benefit just to see how much power we use. I am at 35 amps without the addition of the ignition system/sparks and whatever you allocate to sidecar and powering radio/accessories like satnav gps etc.

Looks to me you should go 50 amp because if you are on twisties at night using full lights and constant braking/low revs you might be pushing the battery power. Dropping from main to dip beam doesn't give you much saving so that's not an option. Dropping driving lights can help but again that's painful, those are the places you want to be able to use them.

92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:Fuel injectors might be low power requirement but what of the ignition system sparks?

According to Tony Trantor who wrote a number of books on vehicle electrical systems (yes, there's two on my bookshelf!), a surprising 0.5amp on a contact-breaker system. He doesn't quote anything for electronic systems (shame!) but that has to be a simple Ohm's Law calculation?

Previous post edited too.

The injectors don't have a very big power consumption as they draw 3 amps when firing but only fire for something like 400us (micro seconds) so when an average is taken it is very low however the fuel pump draws 4 amps continuously. From what I could find some of the later types that are small diameter draw less but still 2.5 amps.
It is quite a draw on such a small alternator when you add all the components up which is one good reason to fit the LED day running lights and even LEDs in the instruments can make things a lot better.
I have been doing a lot of night riding in the last week looking for a replacement car and am very glad I have the good lights.

LED for running lights/parking light, rear light, brake, fog light and instrument cluster would make a significant difference of 4-5 amps?