Hey guys, after much searching I couldn't find anyone else relating this problem so here goes,,,my bike has new tires, balanced by PO, and 66k miles on chassis, seems to be in good shape overall, but when I'm at speed and release the bars, the bike pulls pretty hard to the right.  Tire pressures are correct, happens on freeway, boulevard, side roads, everywhere it seems, so crown of road seems unlikely. Any ideas, or links to similar problems? Do these bikes require/have alignment? Thanks in advance. btw, old front tire was worn unevenly when removed and was different brand.

First of all check the steering head bearings if they are notchy and the notch slightly off centre it will pull that way.
Check the alignment with a string line and make sure the 1.5mm spacer is on the rear wheel. It goes between the rear wheel and rear drive where the 4 long bolts hold the wheel on, they are easy to lose at tyre change time.
With the bike on the centre stand check the front wheel is vertical at centre by a plum or spirit level and same for the rear wheel. It wouldn't be the first time we have seen a bent swingarm here.

Has the bike got the original wheels? If not is the rear wheel offset correct?

Was spacer put back on rear wheel?

RicK G wrote:First of all check the steering head bearings if they are notchy and the notch slightly off centre it will pull that way.

this. old grease.

Well, the spacer is confirmed to be in the rear, my best string test revealed nothing obviously out of whack, and the steering moves smoothly from side to side. No idea yet what condition the bearing grease is in, only have hearsay to go on as far as a previous owners claim that shop had gone over the bike a couple years ago and done routine maintenance.  I did have one hope that loosening the fender attachment bolts (I had to reverse them due to a wider tire now) and retightening the axle bolt first might straighten things out, but no dice on test ride just now.  Bike was down on right side as evidenced by mid-fairing repair, apparently without the side bag on,,,would this be enough to bend the swingarm? that would really suck

Check where your rear shock mounts to the frame. Ensure there is no crack here.

Check front tyre is rotating right way. 

Also, when you replace the front wheel, tighten the axle nut first then tighten the clamps. Might be worth opening and retightening the front wheel.

Did this handling issue only come about after the hew tyres were fitted?

When you say new tyres are they fresh from dealer or sitting for years? Just checking.

"They all do that."

Just checked dates on tires, and one is new this year, one from early 2013 (both spinning in correct direction, front axle tightened before pinch bolts.  I can't say for sure this was a problem before, because the front was so rotted I didn't ride it much before new tires went on,,,but, the old front was severely worn on one side compared to other.  Got ahold of local dealer this am, he looked up the bike and just the oil changed and new fuel pump/filter in last 5 years  !  So now I need to start at square one with plugs, air filter, spline lube, valve clearance, etc, etc, should have known not to take someones word re; maintenance!!  Service guy at dealer did sound shocked when I asked if my pulling problem could be a bent swingarm, said he'd never heard of that, but not unusual for bike to pull to right somewhat.  He said "i don't recommend taking your hands off the bars at speed", yeah, like i was standing on the tank, doing stunts 

The previous owner was a used bike salesman, never trust them.
I would like to know how bad the pulling is. If you take your hands of the bars can you keep the bike in a straight line by increasing the pressure on the left footpeg?

You should identify reason for the handling issue before doing any more.

right fork spring/oil , right disk clearance , pannier loading  , bars bent ?

A bike doesn't usually wear out one side of a front tire. What of front forks. Correct rear wheel? Can you pop up a photo?

we did see a very bent swing arm one time

angle of the wheel matched the final drive ...but no where near vertical

duck wrote:"They all do that."

thanks for the split second of false hope bro    To answer a few questions, panniers are equally loaded (happens without em mounted too), the bike is controllable by leaning hard to the left and almost standing on the left peg, but to me thats not normal.  Bars aren't bent afaik, but would that really matter when not holding them?  Front brakes are not dragging, as they don't get hot and I have cleaned up the calipers already.  I agree with 92KK, this is priority number 1, though I am gathering supplies for all maintenance chores.  Changing fork oil is first tomorrow am, we shall see what this yields.  I really like this bike, its a very smooth runner and I actually like the looks, just wasn't expecting so much work to be needed (many small things I havent mentioned as well).  Thanks for the input and ideas so far guys 

Yeah that sounds more than a little bit. If I let go the bars on my K1100 then it does wander to the right but even just putting my left hand out in the breeze will keep it on track and by putting even 5kg weight on the left peg it will go left like when you pull out to overtake, just a gentle change of direction. Yours seems to take off to the right somewhat quicker than that.
Use a string line to centre the front wheel and then check if either is leaning over, if either is leaning the front to the right at the bottom and rear to the right at the top will send you off to the right.
Had a guy from Arizona about a year ago that had got right out of shape and the swingarm was twisted and it was pulling right among other problems.

As a simple test for the steering, put the bike on the centre stand, stick a jack under the sump with a bit of wood on top to protect the bike and lift the front off the ground.

See what happens.

Turn left and right and see if it is notchy.

Gently cradle the front wheel and see if there is any play in the steering, moving it front to back if that makes sense.

Will only take a minute to do and unless you have a belly 
Pan you will not need to remove anything.

I have large Krauser K2 42 litre panniers and have used the bike with one full one empty with no ill effect.

You should confirm the wheels are correct and original as some have different offsets. Even ones off other BMWs may fit but with different offset which will have an effect.

My experience of forks and things was that generally an imbalance in fork oil or worn springs would produce bad handling rather than a pull to one side. If bike was down on the right just maybe a stanchion got bent and that is not a difficult fix, either by way a of a replacement with a known good pair.

I was over with my BMW friend yesterday and another friend called over. He had recently rebuilt is Paralever final drive so this may be relevant.

I was there when the final drive was being rebuilt and there are two bearings in it, a tapered roller and a lateral thrust bearing I think he called it. These bearings can wear without obvious signs of wear and with very little apparent play. There is also a pivot.

Anyway one of the symptoms of these bearings wearing was a significant pull to one side that is now well gone since it was rebuilt. The 16 valve RS had a similar final drive.......and the bearings and pivot are very easy to do. Bearings here are about €70.

Well, it turns out the forks had equal and proper amounts of fluid.  Wheel stampings seem to indicate originals, and I can't find any play in bearings front or back.  If its internal worn out bearings, I can live with fixing those. To my eye, it looks like the rear wheel is cockeyed like the swingarm was pushed in, but since I'm waiting on my clymer manual to arrive, i'm going down to my local trusted shop tomorrow to see what they say. I'll report back.

Did you check that the frame is not cracked at the shock mount? 

WTF do I know, but seems to me that would cause pulling maybe?

I had this crack (which is apparently common), and reckon I had more right hand pull before I discovered it and fixed it then I do now. 

worth checking anyways.

Quick update, frame is not cracked, I never did mention that it has a fox shock in the rear, but dialing up and backing off preload seemed to have nil effect so i'm writing that variable off for now.  The shop couldn't come up with any decent explanation except that maybe the swingarm was cast crooked (me thinks highly unlikely) or the frame was bent in a past pavement sample (I'm thinking more likely).  Anyhow, $100 for an hour with the bmw mechanic, or same price for a new tire says i'm gonna ride for now and check tire wear.  Bearing inspection will come in near future, both steering and driveline. i'm sure i'll find what it is eventually:)

A lot of Ks end up falling over. Mine have been down but like most was either let fall over which is common or very low speed where the most likely damage is the bottom fairing panel and some marks at the mirror mount. But no frame damage. The right hand side is the more common to go down.

Go back to the test ride and see what happens when you go from accelerating to closing the throttle and see if the handling changes. Then do the same but apply braking and again see if there is a change. The thing is there are a few bearings at the rear end and you haven't told us if its an 8 or 16 valve. Swing arm bearings can do this if badly worn, so can the final drive on the 16 valve. Then you end up with a little play and the handling changes between power on and power off. You should confirm if the rear wheel is original or not as some off other models may look similar and will fit but have different offsets which must be compensated for. Y spoke, or 3 spoke? Spacers in the wrong place?

When I was with my friend during the week he was putting a monolever [8 valve type] back together after a clutch job. He spent an age trying to get the swing arm correctly adjusted and centred using a feeler gauge and he knows these bikes inside out. He also rebuilds the final drives for the local BMW dealer. So what happens if it aint right: 'pulls to one side!'. On the 8 valve the only place for the play is the swing arm bearings. But on 16 valve you have to mind the final drive.

None of these are difficult items but need to work through it methodically. Bike on main stand will tell you if you have play at the rear- there shouldn't be sideways play. Checking the side clearances etc is a little more time consuming. Although you can get a bent frame the K is actually very robust and most of the time when one goes down the fairing suffers the damage and sort of protects the frame. The bars will bend and absorb a lot of the shock.

Sorry, never mentioned that it is an 85 8V.  The wheels appear to have a Y pattern around the rim, and it has a spacer that is 2mm thick.  I took a spin without the spacer installed and didn't notice much difference.  The mounted wheel doesn't seem to have any play in it no matter what way I move it, and bike doesn't seem to change much handling wise when on the brakes or closing throttle, just a steady drift/pull to the right.

It sure sounds like the shimming is out, stringline the bike and confirm the wheels are straight, and plumb bob them to see if they are square, check to see if the front engine mounts are square, if the engine is in nice and sweet and don't appear to have been thrown into the frame then it may be a bent frame or twisted triple tee's from a fair old spill or a kerb hop or something like that. You should be able to jack the bike up and drop a plumb bob from the steering head down to the floor and look under the back wheel to see if you can see the plumbob is sitting in the line made by the centre tread, just simple stuff will help you clear up whether you have an issue with the frame the forks or the engine mount. Cant remember how to check for twisted forks, but it was something about 2 stringlines crossing over the triple tee's.

From what I can see if the shimming to the engine mountings is out the engine it can cause the frame to be misaligned with the swinging arm which is fixed to the engine/transmission/final drive assmbly instead of the frame as is common with other bikes.

So far you have ruled out play at the rear, tyres are good, wheels are correct and fitted correctly.

rosskko wrote:Will only take a minute to do and unless you have a belly 
Pan you will not need to remove anything.

Even with the belly pan, you can just slide some 3/4" - 1" thick wood in there and then jack it up with the belly pan still on.  Still use wood between the jack and the belly pan though, unless you don't care for the belly pan much.

I bought my 90model paralever rs for a really good price off ebay. It looked great. Seemed ok on the test ride. Very soon I noticed a really bad pull to the right. If I took my hands off the bars and decelerated at the same time the bike would literally fall to the right. My rear tyre wore evenly on the left side but was almost a flat straight line from the apex to the rim on the right side like a triangle. There was no play in the back wheel. I put new paralever bearings in anyway. Did the forks. Spacer was there wheels where stock. It was so uncomfortable to ride. Substantial preasure was required to hold a straight line. In the end I through a sidecar on her. Problem solved for me but I never got to the bottom of it. When changing the rs bars for some rt ones for extra leverage I pulled the bar weigghts off and the guy had weighted the left handle bar with buckshot to try and lesson the effect. Good luck with the bike

Decided to look at this one again after reading another post about putting a fairing on a naked K100.

Engine mountings, shims and rubber bushings. If the engine to frame mountings are not correct the whole fork alignment will be out, the frame can end up with the forks off vertical and the front to rear line of the engine and frame not being correct. Even worse, getting it wrong can cause a very small distortion in the frame. The frame to engine mountings are shimmed to keep correct alignment and to avoid stresses being put on the frame. Its not a difficult task to get right but takes skill. On a lot of bikes the engine will be a stressed member, but on the K the rear end alignment is dictated by the engine transmission to swing arm connection, whereas the front end is controlled by how the frame and engine are attached. Also some of the K100s have rubber mountings, as in faired models. One thing to note is that a misalignment at the rear affects the rear shock alignment and will cause a twist.

The engine/transmission/swing arm are all cast components and I think very difficult to induce a bend, more likely to break.

One assumes you didn't have front fork lift under the fork legs when you tightened the axel.
If you did put bike on centre stand loosen axel and all other spindle clamp bolts.
Bounce front end of bike up and down. Retighten all bolts.

Sorry for the long delay in updating my findings, but thought I'd share what I found out.  After many miles, many attempts at a cure, and just trying to ignore the pulling, I finally wore out the rear tire and replaced it.  Replaced it with one that is the exact match for the front, and guess what????,,,,,,,the problem is almost completely eliminated!!  It had shinkos front and back but the rear was the "sport touring" model, not the "touring" that I replaced it with to match the front    Now, in my own defense, before I get flamed for not having matching tires, (which I've been kicking myself for, trust me ), the tires were a gift from the PO, and I have had MANY bikes in the last 28 years. Being the lifelong El Cheapo Bastige that I am (I've owned and loved several KLRs, if you need more proof),, I have run mismatched tires many, many times before and never had a pulling to the side problem with them before,,,,,,,at least I never noticed it.  I have new wheel bearings for the front, ready for the bmw tech at the local stealership to install when the front wheel comes off for a tire change again (bearings were checked several times and were good), so maybe that will cure it completely.  Right now, the bike barely pulls to the right, and as mentioned by someone earlier, can be easily countered by a slight shift in riding position.  Many thanks to all who have posted suggestions on possible fixes, as I've learned a lot from them all, and hopefully others will benefit from this knowledge if they encounter similar issues.  Ride on

Great to see it sorted. Its a little more knowledge for all of us too. We do know a K is sensitive to tyres and that was why someone asked about the dates. Don't be kicking yourself, you did a lot of checks and proved your K is a good one. Also provided concrete argument for only using matched tyres. I for one never figured a msmatch would be as bad as you found.

Now you know how good your K is you should go and enjoy it and keep us posted.

Well that's something, I'd be interested in a ride report on those tyres, You have a matched set on at present? Will be interesting to hear how the new front changes things when you do that. Cheers

Interesting result, considering that many advocate an Avon Azaro rear and Bridgestone 023 on the front as a radial combination (due to a matching pair of radial tyres not being available).

Tyres seem to be a bit of a black art!  

Bill

indian036 wrote:Tyres seem to be a bit of a black art!  

They do on the K and as Olaf said earlier they are a bit sensitive. I know Mine wear the front in a right biased camber because of the roads I ride on. Every time I get a new one I forget about it then suddenly, when it gets to a point of wear I start worrying about head bearings, swing arm bearings etc etc before it dawns on me it's the tyre wear. Be wary or running too low pressure wise. Err on the higher side in my opinion.

Most definitely err on the high side. I have stuck with the Bridgestone BT45 front and rear and very happy with it. Just got new rear a few weeks ago and at 38/44 pressures its like its on rails. But it goes pear shaped if the pressures go down or when one is worn beyond a certain point.

indian036 wrote:Interesting result, considering that many advocate an Avon Azaro rear and Bridgestone 023 on the front as a radial combination (due to a matching pair of radial tyres not being available).

Tyres seem to be a bit of a black art!  

Bill

I'm using that combination Bill. Clocked up nearly 4000klms since late Dec and I'm pretty happy with the performance. They are rock solid.

What's this 'Shinko' stuff?? I have not seen mention of these ones on the forum...

Shinko is the old Yokohama brand.  They got the molds and moved production to China.  Low priced, but decent tires.

I have about 3k miles on one of their Tourmaster rear tires on my 75RT.  Seems like a nice running tire so far, and for about $85US delivered, you can't beat the price.

Shinko, a Japanese company, are now mainly made in South Korea with their scooter tyres made in China. They make a fair few tyres for major labels including Conti's TKC80 dualsport tyres and have since their intro to the market eleven years ago. They are budget tyres but do the job for the price. I test ran a set (donated by the rep) of their 016 Verge 2X radials on a K and while I wouldn't say they were the best in the rain - as compared to, say, Michelin Pilot Road 3 or 4 - they did reach a decent mileage span. Best thing is the value for money.

Shinko linko

The mention of an old Yokohama brand brings me back to the seventies Japanese tyres [which would have made you believe it never rains in Japan] that would be stripped off a bike before even taking it out of the showroom.

TWB comment about not being the best in the rain is telling that some things may not have changed as much as we might like. With the climate over here, wet in winter, lowish temperatures and all year use I don't see me being in the market for them. I got to like the BT45 but there was a time not too many of us would touch Bridgestone tyres either.

I had a Honda CB175 in 1972-76 which had Yokohama tyres on it. When the rear wore out, I replaced it with an Avon (don't remember any other details). That change was worth at least 10mph on any given corner!

More recently, I've had Yokohama tyres on several cars and been very impressed with grip and wear. Only hearsay knowledge of current motorcycle tyres apart from the fact that I've had no issues with the BT45s on my K that were on it when I bought it. Nothing to compare them with, though. 
I agree about the pressure, though. 

Bill

Never was adverse to Japanese or Chinese tires.  When I rode enduros back in the 70's, Bridgestone knobbies were the gold standard in the clay we spent almost all our spring and fall in.  And they didn't give away a thing in the sand or on pavement to the other brands of knobby.  In the drier summer conditions Cheng Shin was the way to go.  Cheap enough to run a fresh rear tire for every race.  Could buy three for the price of a single Dunlop or Metzler. 

I will admit that I have limited experience with my Shinko tires in the rain, but they don't feel any less sticky than the Metzlers that preceded them.  Maybe it's because I slow down and don't try to drag the pegs when it's raining but these tires get the job done for my commuting.

Bill

You were brave to ride on those Yokohamas! They were even worse than the Japanese Dunlop K70.

92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:Bill

You were brave to ride on those Yokohamas! They were even worse than the Japanese Dunlop K70.

Came on the new bike, and at 16/17/18 yrs old, didn't know any better. No internet forums in those days!

Only 'off' had nothing to do with the tyres.


Bil

Bit disappointed! I thought there would be a groan from someone about tyres being a black art.