Well After setting off for a 11 day tour from Sheffield Yorkshire - Faro heading down to Plymouth to catch the Brittany Ferrie to Santander Spain, I set off from Santander to Salamanca on day 1 all ok so far, so after some super sangrias and a good night at camping Regio, we set off for Eagles Rock via plancensia to look at the Big Birds on day 2, we took back roads via El Barco De Avila on the N110, all ok until 4km out side Avila the bike just stopped dead, no cough, splutter, fart or any other kind of Indication it just died and just before the scenery made an appearance as well ... Me and my mate spent 3 hours in the sun trying to get to the bottom of the fault.. Over Fuelling.
Now the fault is fuel / air. as the bike runs with the fuel pump not running, after spending time swapping plugs and drying them out as they were wet through, I suspected over fuelling when pump was running, so checked the return and all ok, so now was head scratching as my head was getting burnt..
When bike is running without fuel pump running, i connected up the pump and it just dies.. so the bike was recovered back to INFNI MOTORS (salamanca BMW dealer) they say it may be the air temp sensor, I personally think it could be the pressure regulator.
Now I cannot check as the bike is somewhere on the continent being repatriated back.
So in the meantime I thought I'd ask you guys if you have come across this and possibly point me in the right direction, any Info would be much appreciated.
Thanks
PS I wish I took my Tiger as this bike would have made Faro and Back No problem..

Quick one;
the pump has nothing to do with the amount of fuel.
FPR can affect it if stuck: in closed position - over fueling
In open position - too much fuel at lower revs and too little at higher revs. Check with bicycle pump with pressure gauge (or similar) on the outlet line from the fuel rack.

The amount of fuel is regulated by the amount of time the injectors are being kept open per cycle. This is adjusted by the ECU depended on the amount of air being sucked into the engine (through signal from the AMS, that's what you control with the throttle), the engine temperature (through signal from the coolingwater temp sensor) and the revs.

I don't know what ECU you have (L-Jetronic or Motronic, assume the latter), but you should be able to measure the coolingwater sensor signal (resistance) at the connector of the ECU and see if it has the right resistance for the temperature.

If you have a motronic, you don't have a TPS-switch, but a TPS-sensor, which then gives signal for the ECU to adjust the fueling. This could be an issue as well (water in the connector etc).

With a bad FPR I would expect the bike still to run, but badly, not stop.

Alternatively, does the bike get enough air?

Hi Renez, thanks for your reply..
Im sure its a Jetronic system with a TPS switch, looking at it from another angle it may be an air flow fault, but until I get it back, I dont know. I did notice a puff of Richness coming from the exhaust when revved, so either to much fuel or not enough air, which i did think return on the FPR.. but I will have to spend time diagnosing the fault.
TBH i should have looked at the forum before I bought the bike, this would have made my mind up on purchasing one.. its one of those bikes that keeps you on your toes, and in my line of work reliability is a must....

GARYSTIGER955i wrote: we set off for Eagles Rock via plancensia to look at the Big Birds on day 2....

Flamingos or Flamencos ????

Sorry to hear about the dent in your trip Gary, if the bike is being recovered how are you travelling onward?

88KE

we have seen both of these issues before ....the temp sensor and fpr issues ....

the fpr is the hardest to judge .

the temp sensor is easy to measure at pin 10 of the under seat efi computer ...probably the most common fault . our old mate corrosion is usually the issue , but not hard to fix given the knowledge .

but advice ...clean and check the fan power connections whilst your down in behind the radiator .

and good luck !!!

I'll put money on the FPR, if it was the temp sensor then it would not run without the pump.
Just a thought but check for an eth on the yellow/gray wire with the ECU disconnected as that will give injectors open always and cause massive flooding by having the manifold vacuum draw fuel even if the pump is not running. Then check if eth is present with it connected but not running with the key on. If eth present then probably ECU faulty

I concur with Rick G -it will most likely be the FPR - ask me how I know lol - good luck with it whatever it turns out to be

88ke.. It was eagles and vultures... my onward jouney was continued in a brand new citreon c4 supplied my insurance company, so my journey didnt come to an abrupt end, and the car has changed my views on french cars, this was a nice car to say the least.

The BMW shop that received the bike, said it was air temp sensor in the air flow meter? but im not sure on that one.. I have had confirmation that the bike will be delivered to me around the 15th of this month.

Is FPR Fuel Pump Relay or Fuel Pressure Regulator....
And whats eth. "Just a thought but check for an eth on the yellow/gray wire with the ECU
disconnected as that will give injectors open always and cause massive
flooding by having the manifold vacuum draw fuel even if the pump is not
running. Then check if eth is present with it connected but not running
with the key on. If eth present then probably ECU faulty"

So
will have a root around and check ecu at pin 10... But this bike was
in an accident a couple of days before it broke down and landed on its
left side, I was knocked off by someone doing a U turn, Now the bike was
OK up until Impact, but after that it was difficult to start, and did
have signs of Black smoke ie running rich.. I will have a look over the
weekend to see if I can figure anything out...

FPR is fuel pressure regulator and eth is Earth or Ground as some call it.
Knowing that it landed on the left side I would be looking for damage around the fuel injection parts which are on that side just behind the fairing.
Check the fuel hoses for kinking and causing a high pressure situation which will make it run rich.

Update: I havent bothered looking at the fault, as the fault was a possible cause by the accident, so therefore will let the insurance company deal with it. But in the meantime the Insurance company are not playing ball. There has been a few mishaps and they are not towing the line, I can now understand why people use management companys for the hassle free ride.
Firstly I was told I would receive a courtesy bike like for like. Please can anyone define the word courtesy vehicle (I thought the word meant given or allowed), so therefore the word courtesy has now changed to Hire? Yes they are asking for card details to charge me, even though I have a letter "without Prejudice" stating free replacement vehicle comparable to my own... I have spoke about this and now they can give me a courtesy no i will rephrase that hire vehicle because its a 3rd party company dealing with it.
Now Ive stated I didnt ask their client to knock me off or cause me any of this hassle, talking of which in their letter it states
" We at *********** are instructed to act on behalf of our client to assist you in trying to make the process of pursuing your claim as painless as possible" your having a laugh, Ive had nothing but hassle from these guys. So Ive now decided to use the original company i rang after the incident, who are competant in this field of work, I did report it to these guys from the start, but because the 3rd party insurance wanted to deal direct and cut out the middle man, i decided on that route.. what a mistake!

So typical of an insurance company. Say anything to get the money and when payout time comes say anything to keep the money.

+1 Rick G. The fundamental principle of the insurance business is to take money in and not pay it out.

P.I.T.A !! Makes you wish you could afford to just make a call and send in the biggest scariest law firm in town!

88

88ke that would be the case but wish I could send in the boys to scare them lol, but as you well know it is a requirement of the law to have 3rd party insurance to use the road as its part of the UK RTA 1988, anything else is hassle. The insurance only got involved to do it as cheaply as possible and drag their heels while they are at it.. Now the problem is its the fault of the other party in which the insurance have admitted liability to this. But as the company have not adhered to their word, I have had no alternative but to use a management company at there expence, it may not work out cost affective to them, but at least its hassle free and I only deal with one person not 3 people from different companys..
Anyway hopefully its sorted now.. and the ball is rolling..

So disappointing to read Gary's Tiger's problems with a Spanish car driver's insurance company - makes you sick to the back teeth to think that these big firms employ people just to wriggle out of their responsibilities. I once owned a 1951 MG TD on which I annually made massive "Comprehensive" premium payments, only to find when the car was written-off in an accident that the major company involved, who collect my hard-earned loot each year, offered a one-thousand sterling payout on a car they'd valued at 5 thousand replacement cost. Bastards, all of them. It's scandalous that the only property on which you are legally obliged to pay for insurance is a vehicle. On the other hand, large corporations like omnibus operators - who have powerful influence in the courts and government - of course don't have that responsibility to engage an insurance firm for cover against accidents involving their vehicles. They settle accident claims from their own budget. One law for the rich.....

ALan in Mojacar

The important thing to remember in any insurance claim when the other party is at fault is that no contract to accept write off value exists between you and the other party nor their insurer.

You have a contract between you and your insurer that says in general you will accept the write off value for your vehicle if you claim on them for damage to the vehicle caused by your fault or if you cannot find the other insured and therefore make a claim on your insurance.

If you have an accident which is the other insured's fault, legally your claim is on them NOT on their insurance company, the other party has entered into a contract with their insurer to pay the cost of any damage they do to someone else under third party and to their vehicle if comprehensive, that does not mean if their insurer does not pay that they don't have to it just means they will be personally out of pocket when you go to court (usually small claims court) get judgement and if necessary send in the bailiffs to collect.

I had a friend who was a courier driver and regularly got hit by other drivers, when it was their fault he simply sent them the bill and commenced proceedings in small claims court to recover the costs to him. He refused to deal with their insurance company, went to court got judgement and got paid either by the other party or their insurance company, it is amazing how effective it is when the other party is screaming at his insurer to pay because he is going to have to pay if they don't.

Now what happened in practice from personal experience when someone at fault ran into my wife's car, their insurance company offered to write off my wife's car because that would be less than the cost of repair. I went to them and explained that no contract to accept write off existed between them and my wife only between them and their insured. The contract between my wife and her insurance company is immaterial because we were not claiming on our insurance but on their insured whose liability to my wife was not limited by any write off value, in effect the other insured had an unlimited liability to my wife. They paid the cost of returning my wife's car to the condition it was before the accident even though that was nearly 2.5 times their estimate of its write off value, Had my wife been at fault we would have either had to accept write off or pay from our own pockets for the repair.
Regards,
K-BIKE