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1Back to top Go down   oil/coolant slip ring seal Empty oil/coolant slip ring seal on Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:45 pm

lechicho55

lechicho55
active member
active member
I think I have a bad slip ring seal on 85 k100 and am tearing my bike apart so figured I would just replace it.  I am wondering if it is all original parts (I assume its original. Well maintained my ass) can I just replace the seal or do I need to replace anything else, as I have heard they changed the design of the pump a bit.

    

2Back to top Go down   oil/coolant slip ring seal Empty Re: oil/coolant slip ring seal on Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:20 pm

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
Life time member
This service bulletin tells part of the story. There are substitutes for the special tool mentioned. Step-by-step instruction can be found under the Mechanical heading in the Portal's K100 Forum Tech page.


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 73,000 miles
oil/coolant slip ring seal Usa-lo10
    

3Back to top Go down   oil/coolant slip ring seal Empty Re: oil/coolant slip ring seal on Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:06 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

92KK 84WW Olaf
Life time member
Life time member
What you will likely find when you go in there is you will also need a new impeller and shaft. They did change the pump a bit and the impeller to shaft fixing is one and the later design is better.

The fact that it may be original is not necessarily an indication of poor maintenance. After such a timescale there are a few 'usual items' that occur and this is one of them. It's a credit so many have survived this long.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Alaska Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 58,645 now 100,380 miles
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell No 33,600 miles
    

4Back to top Go down   oil/coolant slip ring seal Empty Re: oil/coolant slip ring seal on Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:28 am

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
Shaft condition can vary wildly. I've seen shafts that look like new and I've also seen shafts that look like they were installed by Henry Ford.  (A LONG time ago.)


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

5Back to top Go down   oil/coolant slip ring seal Empty Re: oil/coolant slip ring seal on Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:35 am

RicK G

RicK G
VIP
VIP
Gees I know Fords aren't much chop but henry having a K says a lot about his own product lol!


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

6Back to top Go down   oil/coolant slip ring seal Empty Re: oil/coolant slip ring seal on Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:48 pm

lechicho55

lechicho55
active member
active member
I appreciate all the info.  I will order the new impeller and other parts.

    

7Back to top Go down   oil/coolant slip ring seal Empty coolant/oil pump on Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:48 pm

brickrider2

brickrider2
Life time member
Life time member
We've experienced an unexpected run of warm weather so I decided to install the oil/coolant pump rebuild bits in my 1995 K1100LT.  'thou old in years, it has a mere 24 K miles on the clock and I'm fairly sure no one has ever been in there since it left the factory.  When I went to free the hose clamp to drain the coolant at the pump I noticed there was coolant on the end of the hose.  Upon closer inspection, I found that every point on the cover at the lower fasteners also had a drip of coolant.  I'm now wondering if the slip ring has actually failed or the pump cover is the point where the coolant is escaping.  I should add that the coolant leak is extremely slow - on the order of a few drops during a couple weeks of the bike resting.  I understand there is a small drain hole under the pump or cover where liquid exits when a seal fails, but I couldn't locate it.  When coolant or oil escapes due to a failed seal on the pump shaft, would it fall below the bike on the right or left side of the pump? Is it likely that the cover seal (silicon ?) has failed simply due to age?  I'm inclined to believe that is what has happened because there is evidence that the cam chain cover is weeping as well. 
Should I go proceed to install new pump seals as a matter of course or just re-seal the cover(s)?



Last edited by brickrider2 on Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:59 pm; edited 1 time in total


__________________________________________________
1996 K1100LT
    

8Back to top Go down   oil/coolant slip ring seal Empty Re: oil/coolant slip ring seal on Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:00 pm

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
Life time member
The weep hole for coolant or oil leaking past failed seals is circled in the attached image. If it's clogged unclog it. Then wait for it to leak. Catch up on your reading. If it doesn't leak,  the cover or other joints could be leaking. It doesn't sound too serious yet.

oil/coolant slip ring seal Screen37


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 73,000 miles
oil/coolant slip ring seal Usa-lo10
    

9Back to top Go down   oil/coolant slip ring seal Empty Re: oil/coolant slip ring seal on Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:59 pm

brickrider2

brickrider2
Life time member
Life time member
Thanks for that photo - very helpful.  cheers   Another question: if there is a seal failing, it it likely to suddenly let go in a big way, or continue to worsen slowly over time?


__________________________________________________
1996 K1100LT
    

10Back to top Go down   oil/coolant slip ring seal Empty Re: oil/coolant slip ring seal on Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:14 pm

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
Life time member
@brickrider2 wrote:Thanks for that photo - very helpful.  cheers   Another question: if there is a seal failing, it it likely to suddenly let go in a big way, or continue to worsen slowly over time?
I've never had the pleasure of this particular seal failure, but it's in the nature of shaft seals to let you live in denial, for a while. Enjoy it.


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 73,000 miles
oil/coolant slip ring seal Usa-lo10
    

11Back to top Go down   oil/coolant slip ring seal Empty Re: oil/coolant slip ring seal on Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:09 am

Dai

Dai
Life time member
Life time member
What Laitch is saying is yes, they drip slowly until you get so fed up with seeing the puddle, you finally get round to doing something about it.


__________________________________________________
'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

12Back to top Go down   oil/coolant slip ring seal Empty Re: oil/coolant slip ring seal on Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:37 pm

Woodie

Woodie
Life time member
Life time member
I fussed about a similar leak this past riding season.  Finally got to where I just didn't give a sh$t about it and instead turned my attention back to enjoying riding the beast.  I keep an eye on the oil level/consumption but that has been as steady as a rock.  Part of the old girl's charm for now  Very Happy


__________________________________________________
1985 K100RT
52667
"Keep your stick on the ice.  We're all in this together."  Red Green
    

13Back to top Go down   oil/coolant slip ring seal Empty Re: oil/coolant slip ring seal on Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:03 am

nobbylon

nobbylon
Silver member
Silver member
If the weep hole is blocked the first you will know about a blown seal is coffee coloured oil. This happened to my silver K100 and ended up having to flush the motor and the coolant system. I’d replace the seals if it’s weeping. Better to do it at home in comfort than have it go fully 1000 miles away.


__________________________________________________
R1100GS Feb 1995
K100RS July 1989
R90s June 1975
R75/6 Feb 1976
F650GD May 2001
    

14Back to top Go down   oil/coolant slip ring seal Empty Re: oil/coolant slip ring seal on Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:31 am

brickrider2

brickrider2
Life time member
Life time member
I decided that, having come this far, I'd be foolish not to go ahead and put in the new seals and be done with it. I will thereafter enjoy a dry underside of the engine for a good long while.  (Assuming I don't screw up that tricky water seal.)


__________________________________________________
1996 K1100LT
    

15Back to top Go down   oil/coolant slip ring seal Empty coolant/oil pump puzzle on Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:43 pm

brickrider2

brickrider2
Life time member
Life time member
I installed the MotoBins oil seal and the water pump slip ring according to instructions in the Clymer manual and the videos on YouTube.  I'm  stuck with a problem I can't sort out.  When I torque the bolt to fit the impeller, the shaft binds and will not turn. 
There are inconsistencies in the instructions as well.  The Clymer directions make no mention of the spacer in the schematic 124.  Is the spacer that comes with the MotoBin rebuild kit to be used only for drawing the shaft through the slip ring? When I put the MotoBins spacer on the shaft, the impeller sits so high that the cover cannot be installed. 
I'm working on a pump with the new style innards - pressed steel impeller and the shaft with the provision for a bolt in the impeller end.  
What am I missing here?



Last edited by brickrider2 on Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:37 pm; edited 1 time in total


__________________________________________________
1996 K1100LT
    

16Back to top Go down   oil/coolant slip ring seal Empty Re: oil/coolant slip ring seal on Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:04 pm

nobbylon

nobbylon
Silver member
Silver member
Firstly go and get a packet of thick washers that will fit on the shaft.
install the new rubber seal and then fit the new style ceramic seal.
Grease the bolt end of the shaft lightly and install the new gear shaft until it stops.
Fit enough washers on the shaft to leave a space so that when you insert the bolt in and tighten it will pull the shaft through the new seal. keep undoing the bolt, adding washers a repeat until the gear face on the shaft sits level with the case face of the pump. remove the bolt and washers , install the spacer and impellor and fit the bolt. i use a little blue loctite.


__________________________________________________
R1100GS Feb 1995
K100RS July 1989
R90s June 1975
R75/6 Feb 1976
F650GD May 2001
    

17Back to top Go down   oil/coolant slip ring seal Empty Re: oil/coolant slip ring seal on Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:28 pm

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
Life time member
@brickrider2 wrote:. . . Is the spacer that comes with the MotoBin rebuild kit to be used only for drawing the shaft through the slip ring? . . . What am I missing here?
Are you working from these guidelines found on the K100-forum tech page? If you aren't, reviewing them might add clarity to the procedure and the use of the new spacer.


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 73,000 miles
oil/coolant slip ring seal Usa-lo10
    

18Back to top Go down   oil/coolant slip ring seal Empty Re: oil/coolant slip ring seal on Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:08 pm

nobbylon

nobbylon
Silver member
Silver member
you dont need to use the new spacer to pull the shaft through. I found that it just confused stuff. Just work out how to pull the shaft through so its flush without deforming the ceramic seal. Using washers acheives this. Think about what you are trying to do before spannering.
The main aim is to only pull the shaft through until the gear face is level. Adding any more washers past this point compresses the spring in the seal and makes the shaft rotation tight.


__________________________________________________
R1100GS Feb 1995
K100RS July 1989
R90s June 1975
R75/6 Feb 1976
F650GD May 2001
    

19Back to top Go down   oil/coolant slip ring seal Empty Re: oil/coolant slip ring seal on Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:58 pm

brickrider2

brickrider2
Life time member
Life time member
Okay, let me try to explain the problem again.  First, let me say what it isn't.  The problem is not installing the oil seal or the slip ring.  The problem is not drawing the shaft through those parts.  I've done that.  The question I have is about assembling the bits on the water pump end of the shaft. The impeller sits WAY proud of the flange.  The cover will not even come remotely close to fitting over the impeller.  I seem to have an odd impeller that is unlike others I've seen in illustrations or in DIY videos.  It appears to have the spacer already incorporated into the (pressed steel) impeller, such that if I use the spacer that came with the rebuild kit, it locates the impeller way out beyond what can fit in the housing.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipMwRyhu8r1cFXmtYiUiSJkHUgLYDjVPb9Dwb5LgzQRujOscK2vnRHITcJTQYj0S8A?key=eUN2TDRQbFV1bzNoTUVqYzMyQkZLbHI1dm92SGVB


__________________________________________________
1996 K1100LT
    

20Back to top Go down   oil/coolant slip ring seal Empty Pump Mystery Solved on Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:12 pm

brickrider2

brickrider2
Life time member
Life time member
I had another, closer look at the impeller.  I put the "spacer" part of the impeller in a vice and whacked the impeller with a mallet.  The part separated into two pieces.  The two pieces had been fused together with corrosion so tightly I thought it was a single piece.  The problem was that I had been trying to use two spacers between the slip ring and the impeller. I put the new spacer in place and the dimensions now seem as they should be. The pump is now back on the engine. Tomorrow the gasket goo should be ready for me to take up the fasteners to their proper torque values. I'm embarrassed that such a silly oversight could have confused me.

There remain some odd aspects of these rebuilds.  My pump had a washer with a rubber seal between the impeller and the slip ring that doesn't appear in any schematics I've seen. In addition, I found torquing the bolt on the shaft bound the shaft, preventing it from turning.  In the end, I just used less torque and a generous helping of blue thread locker. 

Thanks to all who offered ideas.


__________________________________________________
1996 K1100LT
    

21Back to top Go down   oil/coolant slip ring seal Empty Re: oil/coolant slip ring seal on Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:05 am

Dai

Dai
Life time member
Life time member
Ah! Nearly been caught by that one too. The only giveaway was that after cleaning it with a wire brush, there's no sign of a machining shoulder between the spacer and the shaft, so I figured that had to be two separate pieces. That and the new spacer in the kit.


__________________________________________________
'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

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