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1Back to top Go down   Clutch and Clutch Cable Change Empty Clutch and Clutch Cable Change on Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:51 am

Arrowkeen

Arrowkeen
active member
active member
Hi Everyone, Have installed new clutch disc and clutch cable 
Adjusted as per Chris's instructions- 75mm at end of clutch cable and 5mm play at lever
When bike is on Center Stand and idling in neutral-adjusted idle to around 900rpm, the back wheel is spinning around slowly, when you hold the back wheel, you can feel friction or say clutch pulling the wheel and when you pull in clutch lever in neutral, rpm rises around 300-400 rpm from idle
Is this just the clutch bedding in?
 I would of thought that pulling the clutch lever in, in neutral should have no effect on rpm
Any suggestions on this or is this normal with new clutch?

Cheers

    

2Back to top Go down   Clutch and Clutch Cable Change Empty Re: Clutch and Clutch Cable Change on Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:49 am

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
It's normal for a broken in clutch.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

3Back to top Go down   Clutch and Clutch Cable Change Empty Re: Clutch and Clutch Cable Change on Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:50 am

Poupy

Poupy
active member
active member
The wheel spinning is normal. It is your gearbox gears which, even at idle, all turn and have kind of a friction on the driven shaft.

The engine rpm increase when pressing the clutch handle goes in the same direction but the amount of rpm increase you indicate is surprising... Unless you have a much too thick gearbox oil, which brings the idle rpm down from 1400 to 900 when the clutch is closed.
Anyway, it shows that your new clutch is working quite nicely, completely isolating the gearbox when actuated!

    

4Back to top Go down   Clutch and Clutch Cable Change Empty Re: Clutch and Clutch Cable Change on Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:42 am

Poupy

Poupy
active member
active member
@Arrowkeen wrote:
Adjusted as per Chris's instructions- 75mm at end of clutch cable and 5mm play at lever
From what I understand, you mean Chris Harris's video on youtube. If it is the case, I am ready to blow against the wind: the procedure shown in that video is completely wrong.

It is a matter of common sense. Look how the clutch mechanism works and you will understand how to adjust it properly.

The adjustment screw at the end of the lever on the gearbox side pushes the rod inside the gearbox, till the clutch diaphragm.

The 75mm adjustment is therefore to place the lever assembly in suitable position to act on the clutch diaphragm in the best conditions when the clutch handle is pressed. That means that when the 75mm is set the clutch rod must be against the diaphragm, ready to push it. It is possible to adjust that distance even if there is no clutch cable installed on the bike. The 75mm sets the starting point of the diaphragm actual pushing. That is done with the adjustable screw behind the gearbox, whilst the rod is just against the diaphragm, i.e. when the part of the lever receiving the cable is pulled up till it becomes hard to move. If it cannot move up easy before becoming hard, act at the handlebar lever level so that the tension on the cable becomes nil.

Once that 75mm adjustment is made and that you release the pressure on the final lever, the 75mm should not be 75mm any more. It should be 75mm + the play before the assembly is ready to press the diaphragm. That play corresponds to the about 5mm adjusted at the handle level.

On the video the guy is making exactly the opposite. He sets the 75mm with the handlebar (with 5mm play?) and then ajusts the handlebar play with the final drive. By doing so he can have the good play at the handlebar level, with the clutch rod being pushed very far from the ideal way. Actually, after having unscrewed the screw as shown on his video, the 75mm initial value with no play is probably gone.

That 75mm when in contact with the diaphragm is a matter of clutch disc wear. If you notice a decrease of the play at the handlebar level, then, yes, it is at the other end that the problem should be cured, but not the way the video shows it.

And do not forget to put a fair amount of grease around the cable end junction with the handlebar lever. A lot of cheap bicycle brake cable assemblies are better designed than this one for the clutch Wink

    

5Back to top Go down   Clutch and Clutch Cable Change Empty Re: Clutch and Clutch Cable Change on Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:43 am

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
JM.02: Despite the factory spec being 950 +/- 50 RPM at idle, I'd recommend setting the idle to about 1,100 RPM. I do that on all of my bikes because they come off of the line much better with less lag that way.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

6Back to top Go down   Clutch and Clutch Cable Change Empty Re: Clutch and Clutch Cable Change on Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:54 am

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
@Poupy wrote:
@Arrowkeen wrote:
Adjusted as per Chris's instructions- 75mm at end of clutch cable and 5mm play at lever
From what I understand, you mean Chris Harris's video on youtube. If it is the case, I am ready to blow against the wind: the procedure shown in that video is completely wrong.

It is a matter of common sense. Look how the clutch mechanism works and you will understand how to adjust it properly.

The adjustment screw at the end of the lever on the gearbox side pushes the rod inside the gearbox, till the clutch diaphragm.

The 75mm adjustment is therefore to place the lever assembly in suitable position to act on the clutch diaphragm in the best conditions when the clutch handle is pressed. That means that when the 75mm is set the clutch rod must be against the diaphragm, ready to push it. It is possible to adjust that distance even if there is no clutch cable installed on the bike. The 75mm sets the starting point of the diaphragm actual pushing. That is done with the adjustable screw behind the gearbox, whilst the rod is just against the diaphragm, i.e. when the part of the lever receiving the cable is pulled up till it becomes hard to move. If it cannot move up easy before becoming hard, act at the handlebar lever level so that the tension on the cable becomes nil.

Once that 75mm adjustment is made and that you release the pressure on the final lever, the 75mm should not be 75mm any more. It should be 75mm + the play before the assembly is ready to press the diaphragm. That play corresponds to the about 5mm adjusted at the handle level.

On the video the guy is making exactly the opposite. He sets the 75mm with the handlebar (with 5mm play?) and then ajusts the handlebar play with the final drive. By doing so he can have the good play at the handlebar level, with the clutch rod being pushed very far from the ideal way. Actually, after having unscrewed the screw as shown on his video, the 75mm initial value with no play is probably gone.

That 75mm when in contact with the diaphragm is a matter of clutch disc wear. If you notice a decrease of the play at the handlebar level, then, yes, it is at the other end that the problem should be cured, but not the way the video shows it.

And do not forget to put a fair amount of grease around the cable end junction with the handlebar lever. A lot of cheap bicycle brake cable assemblies are better designed than this one for the clutch Wink

If Chris Harris puts it on The Internet then it must be true. (Sarcasm)


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

7Back to top Go down   Clutch and Clutch Cable Change Empty Re: Clutch and Clutch Cable Change on Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:37 am

Chocolate

Chocolate
Life time member
Life time member
Clutch and Clutch Cable Change Ba963710


__________________________________________________
Only a few activities make me experience my senses in a way motorcycle riding does, it is like swimming in the nude in a river.
K75 BA/1992 ABS, K75 BA/1991 noABS, Ducati, Mobylette M1/1973
    

8Back to top Go down   Clutch and Clutch Cable Change Empty Re: Clutch and Clutch Cable Change on Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:02 am

chris846

chris846
Life time member
Life time member
Post 4 says it all. 75mm sets the arm at its optimum position in its arc of movement. Understanding the mechanics of the thing is the key to setting it up.

Always surprises me that the various instructions for adjusting the clutch never seem to mention the obvious - stick it on the centrestand, in gear, and feel how the rear wheel locks and frees up as you let the clutch lever in and out.


__________________________________________________
The Longest Lunch
    

9Back to top Go down   Clutch and Clutch Cable Change Empty Re: Clutch and Clutch Cable Change on Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:48 pm

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
Life time member
@chris846 wrote:Always surprises me that the various instructions for adjusting the clutch never seem to mention the obvious - stick it on the centrestand, in gear, and feel how the rear wheel locks and frees up as you let the clutch lever in and out.
That's probably because feeling is subjective and is benefited by experience that a reader might lack whereas diagrams can be both helpful and can be colored using crayons during breaks in the process.

To get on the road and away from a disabling labyrinth of complex thought accompanied by weeping, during my 50K miles of Brick ownership I've followed the classic BMW instructions Chocolate has posted. The result has been satisfactory. I start with the left column's top diagram then move down to the left column's bottom diagram then move over to the right column's diagram; however, I know I could make the process hellish with more effort. Laughing


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 73,000 miles
Clutch and Clutch Cable Change Usa-lo10
    

10Back to top Go down   Clutch and Clutch Cable Change Empty Re: Clutch and Clutch Cable Change on Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:48 pm

volador

volador
Silver member
Silver member
@Laitch wrote:That's probably because feeling is subjective and is benefited by experience that a reader might lack whereas diagrams can be both helpful and can be colored using crayons during breaks in the process.

To get on the road and away from a disabling labyrinth of complex thought accompanied by weeping, during my 50K miles of Brick ownership I've followed the classic BMW instructions Chocolate has posted. The result has been satisfactory. I start with the left column's top diagram then move down to the left column's bottom diagram then move over to the right column's diagram; however, I know I could make the process hellish with more effort. Laughing

Great topic for your next webinar! I'll bring my crayons and oaktag.


__________________________________________________
1984 K100RS  1991 K100RS  Reap The Wild Wind... Ever Commute Is An Adventure
    

11Back to top Go down   Clutch and Clutch Cable Change Empty Re: Clutch and Clutch Cable Change on Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:18 pm

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
Life time member
@volador wrote:Great topic for your next webinar! I'll bring my crayons and oaktag.
You'll need to supply your own bib, too. Many attendees haven't been returning them and the GoFundMe site administrator eloped.


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 73,000 miles
Clutch and Clutch Cable Change Usa-lo10
    

12Back to top Go down   Clutch and Clutch Cable Change Empty Re: Clutch and Clutch Cable Change on Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:26 pm

volador

volador
Silver member
Silver member
@Laitch wrote:You'll need to supply your own bib, too. Many attendees haven't been returning them and the GoFundMe site administrator eloped.
 
Nice, put me down for the lobster lunch!


__________________________________________________
1984 K100RS  1991 K100RS  Reap The Wild Wind... Ever Commute Is An Adventure
    

13Back to top Go down   Clutch and Clutch Cable Change Empty Re: Clutch and Clutch Cable Change on Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:53 pm

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
Life time member
@volador wrote:Nice, put me down for the lobster lunch!
The multiplicity of dietary restrictions among attendees requires us to limit our meal to mashed peas or Ensure. Just check the appropriate box.


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 73,000 miles
Clutch and Clutch Cable Change Usa-lo10
    

14Back to top Go down   Clutch and Clutch Cable Change Empty Re: Clutch and Clutch Cable Change on Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:43 pm

volador

volador
Silver member
Silver member
@Laitch wrote:The multiplicity of dietary restrictions among attendees requires us to limit our meal to mashed peas or Ensure. Just check the appropriate box.
 
Ensure lobster flavored


__________________________________________________
1984 K100RS  1991 K100RS  Reap The Wild Wind... Ever Commute Is An Adventure
    

15Back to top Go down   Clutch and Clutch Cable Change Empty Re: Clutch and Clutch Cable Change on Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:58 pm

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
Life time member
@volador wrote:Ensure lobster flavored
We only have vanilla but we can mix a dash of squid ink into it for a briny note. Some was found in the kitchen after perhaps an American Association of Fish Veterinarians meeting. Info will be forwarded to Food Service.



Last edited by Laitch on Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:49 pm; edited 1 time in total


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 73,000 miles
Clutch and Clutch Cable Change Usa-lo10
    

16Back to top Go down   Clutch and Clutch Cable Change Empty Re: Clutch and Clutch Cable Change on Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:37 pm

Arrowkeen

Arrowkeen
active member
active member
Thanks Guys for your feed back, will try today as per diagram and let you know
Cheers Very Happy

    

17Back to top Go down   Clutch and Clutch Cable Change Empty Re: Clutch and Clutch Cable Change on Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:49 am

Holister

Holister
Life time member
Life time member
Wow... some people really over think this don't they.
I always follow the diagram as posted by Chocolate but whether you do it that way or the Chris Harris way, it doesn't matter. The 4mm free play is simply so there is no pressure on the clutch push rod when the clutch handlebar lever out.
The method in the book provides the free play by slacking the cable, the Chris Harris method by slacking the adjusting bolt. The difference is minimal, the effect is the same.


__________________________________________________

1989 K100RT     VIN No.  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN No.  0451808
 Clutch and Clutch Cable Change Austra12    Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

18Back to top Go down   Clutch and Clutch Cable Change Empty Re: Clutch and Clutch Cable Change on Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:48 pm

Dai

Dai
Life time member
Life time member
Whichever way. The idea is to get the clutch arm as close as possible to parallel with the back of the gearbox when pulled in. Or, putting it another way, perpendicular to the pushrod. This gives the most lift on the clutch without overstressing the assembly.


__________________________________________________
'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

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