dallasf wrote:I think I have k100 hardware. What are your thoughts . . .

You need to order yourself a K100 diaphragm spring because you don't have one.
That looks like a one-piece piston/bearing combo. If it is, you need to discard any other bearing and race behind it. If you can't remove that race from the end of the pushrod in your photo, you need to order a new pushrod per the assembly instructions below.

I have the spring already, its sitting there. It just wasn't installed at the time of the picture.

Based on what you are saying I need a new pushrod that doesn't have the thrust bearing (#12) in this picture?



Sorry

dallasf wrote:I have the spring already, its sitting there. It just wasn't installed at the time of the picture.
Based on what you are saying I need a new pushrod that doesn't have the thrust bearing (#12) in this picture?

I'm uncertain which type of spring you have sitting there because you seem unable to discern differences among the springs so let's have a side profile photo of what's sitting there.

If you have a one-piece cup/bearing assembly you don't need anything else including whatever is on the end of that pushrod so lay out on the table every part that was in that hole then take closeup photos of them including both sides of the part that the clutch arm contacts.

Base decisions on a thorough understanding. Right now, you have little understanding . . . and with your description, I'm right behind you. 

Spring and one piece cup/bearing all there. All installed as required by the manual in the correct order before I stripped again. Some pictures you saw did not reflect that.

dallasf wrote:Spring and one piece cup/bearing all there. All installed as required by the manual in the correct order before I stripped again. Some pictures you saw did not reflect that.

Where's the side profile photo of the diaphragm spring? Post that.
Take a good look in that the opening for the pushrod and piston assembly to determine if there is anything on top of the circlip.

Remove the disc at the end of the arrow.

That part where your red arrow is pointed to, is fused on. A previous link I shared said this was not removable. I can vouch that it's not coming off.



Here is a link for that info

Here is the inside where the circlip is:

Here is the spring. It was added before but adding again. Don't want to look like a further idiot.

dallasf wrote:That part where your red arrow is pointed to, is fused on. A previous link I shared said this was not removable. I can vouch that it's not coming off.

If it isn't coming off, you probably should buy a pushrod without one according to the product instructions I posted in Post #50. Read them again. The specified pushrod is the first photo here, according to a few current parts fiches. I can't find one that looks like yours but, admittedly, interest waned after encountering the one I posted in several resources, including my own moto that has the one piece piston/bearing array and a pushrod with that piston contact stub. 

Secondly, the diaphragm spring in your latest photo doesn't seem to be a K100 diaphragm spring—described and depicted in an earlier post—so if you don't have one kicking around that has the profile of the one in the attached photo, you'll need to purchase one of those, too. Your problems with getting underway aren't surprising but you'll overcome them with the correct parts and assembling the correct parts correctly.   

After rereading this odyssey for the umpteenth time, I notice I'm contradicting both Rick G's and daveyson's assertions concerning the diaphragm spring; however, after seeing the lamentable results of dallas's (and/or unnamed party's or parties') previous efforts, I'd bin both the current spring and pushrod on general principles with supportable references. Any other way of doing it would be 0.5-assed by my lights but dallas has become adept at this disassembly/reassembly task so doing it one or two more times should be no problem, if it comes to that. 

This is getting funny now.

Actually I've just noticed the part numbers are not way different, the numbers on the top row of mine are identical to the bottom row on Dallas's, I think, though some are scuffed too much to tell. 

And the other numbers:
013054002200: my bottom row numbers.
    3054002200: Dallas's top row numbers. 

I'll guess there are two diaphragm discs for k100s and that the later version is the one with the curved profile, because that's what the k1100s look like (going by eBay adds) but we have the same early version.

daveyson wrote:... because that's what the k1100s look like (going by eBay)

Going by eBay has the accuracy of phrenology. I'm using BMW fiche photos. Of course, BMW calls the rear drive a differential but hey, everybody's allowed some foibles.

True, I'd put money on it though even though I'm not the gambling type. Bout time I started checking that area out.

I spose Dallas should be concentrating on the other end of the push rod.

daveyson wrote:True, I'd put money on it though even though I'm not the gambling type. 

How about Amazon gift cards instead?

Firstly, very thankful for everyone's assistance here. I know you take time out to help others, which is really appreciated, especially from me.

Secondly, what an absolute mess! I knew the bike was neglected, didn't think this badly. Being inexperienced in this, I just followed the books, diagrams and the hardware in it.

The spring that Laitch displayed is just an updated k100 version of the one I have, from further research I did. So I could grab that new spring and spend the $200 AUS and get the new pushrod with no thrust bearing. To ensure the budget stays within the budget, would the new pushrod be suffice? Or am I rolling the dice. I know you said get both, but I am trying to keep costs down. Maybe this is trial and error.

I wanted to also mention, which you may have not seen in a previous post, what could be the reason for not accelerating. The shaft on the below image is not turning at all, it feels seized. Looks like I need to pull it apart and find out why. Would this be a rebuild too? Or is there hopefully a simpler resolution here.

I don't even know how to send money over the phone, but years ago I had a computer and could by things overseas by just pressing a few buttons. I've actually got worse with computers over time. 

Not sure what we're saying. Are you saying there is only one diaphragm spring for the k100, or that there are two and the curved one came first? 

If I bet you a Vermont cake (forget the name) I'd be one cake richer.

Maybe you don't have to buy anything. Look at Rick's last post again.

daveyson wrote:Maybe you don't have to buy anything. Look at Rick's last post again.

Thanks, just wanted to confirm. Saw the message from Laitch mentioning the contradiction to Rick.

Now for the gearbox.

The K100 spring is 180mm in diameter and the K75 looks similar but is about 165-170mm and that pushrod should not have that piece of the throwout bearing fixed to it. You will need to remove it or get a pushrod without it. The later K1100 type as pictured in post #59 superseded the older K100 type. The k100 and K1100 pushrods are the same.

RicK G wrote:The K100 spring is 180mm in diameter and the K75 looks similar but is about 165-170mm and that pushrod should not have that piece of the throwout bearing fixed to it. You will need to remove it or get a pushrod without it. The later K1100 type as pictured in post #59 superseded the older K100 type. The k100 and K1100 pushrods are the same.

Thanks, onto the pushrod now.

daveyson wrote:Maybe you don't have to buy anything. Look at Rick's last post again.

Your responses are getting as cryptic as dallas's.

We all know it's SOP for BMW to modify during production—e.g., the fuel level senders, crankshaft bolts, et. al. If it were my project, I'd get the latest version of the diaphragm spring and pushrod, but there's something deeper going on given dallas is now reporting a seized input shaft in his replacement transmission. Is it karma, heavy gravity, distraction, fraud, divine intervention, prank practice or what?

In Post #57 the circlip you reference is part of the main input shaft and holds the back bearing on, it has nothing to do with the clutch. There is also a small oil seal that at first glance looks like it is in backwards but it is correct so don't be phased by that (thought I needed to mention that as it is often a problem that the mistake is made)

daveyson wrote:Maybe you don't have to buy anything. Look at Rick's last post again.

Your responses are getting as cryptic as dallas's.

We all know it's SOP for BMW to modify during production—e.g., the fuel level senders, crankshaft bolts, et. al. If it were my project, I'd get the latest version of the diaphragm spring and pushrod, but there's something deeper going on given dallas is now reporting a seized input shaft in his replacement transmission. Is it karma, heavy gravity, distraction, fraud, divine intervention, prank practice or what?

I'm no good at cryptic either, that post was clear I thought, but when you say heavy gravity, I'm hearing heavy water. Guess what, this is another thread that's making me feel hungry. 

If I understand this right, your earlier post made me think maybe Dallas has a push rod from a k1100lt.

Laitch wrote:

daveyson wrote:Maybe you don't have to buy anything. Look at Rick's last post again.

Your responses are getting as cryptic as dallas's.

We all know it's SOP for BMW to modify during production—e.g., the fuel level senders, crankshaft bolts, et. al. If it were my project, I'd get the latest version of the diaphragm spring and pushrod, but there's something deeper going on given dallas is now reporting a seized input shaft in his replacement transmission. Is it karma, heavy gravity, distraction, fraud, divine intervention, prank practice or what?

Think my responses are only cryptic because there is 5 names for one thing, no fault of anyone. 

ALSO, in summary.

Received a k100 pushrod from the wrecker, diagrams refer to this pushrod as a k100 pushrod, however is an old pushrod version.
There are two pushrods for the same k100 spring, one will work with the old bearing assembly one will not.
There is an updated spring that looks different from the old, further pushrod complexity as well.
There was an illusion the old pushrod was a k75 one, turns out it was an old k100 rod.
The entire time the new (used) transmission shaft was seized.

Once again appreciate clearing this up, it has been quite the journey. I have ordered a pushrod for now from the same wrecker. I endeavor to open both transmissions and find a solution. Please don't worry, I will not be asking you guys for help, I will be taking the transmission into Melbourne for diagnosis.  

Also appreciative I didn't buy a running bike, I would have not learnt what I have thus far.

dallasf wrote:Also appreciative I didn't buy a running bike, I would have not learnt what I have thus far.

Running bikes are nothing but problems; consider yourself lucky. 

All the pushrods from 1982 through to 1999 were the same for K100 and K1100 don't let anyone tell you different.

I'm actually hoping you do start a thread for transmission help, you will get help I'm sure, and your thread will help others. I'd like to see some gear box gizzards.

It's a good feeling to fix mechanical issues especially if you're not a mechanic.  

I'm starting to think maybe there's nothing wrong with the original gear box, and the problem could be in the push rod area. Hopefully.

daveyson wrote:I'm actually hoping you do start a thread for transmission help, you will get help I'm sure, and your thread will help others. I'd like to see some gear box gizzards.

It's a good feeling to fix mechanical issues especially if you're not a mechanic.  

I'm starting to think maybe there's nothing wrong with the original gear box, and the problem could be in the push rod area. Hopefully.

I want to, don't get me wrong. I have watched a heap of videos too.

I think the original box was fine too after seeing the state of the clutch and the oil in there. Pity we couldn't open it together, because of lockdown.

I have a guy in Melbourne who is very proficient and worked on these a lot, so I might feel better having him do it.

Goodo

Photos would be good if possible.

Wanted to contribute some input/advice (if you may) from further pushrod activities.

I wacked the rod in a vice around the thrust bearing, got a nail punch and hammered the crap out it. It actually came off, so now I have a suitable rod.

dallasf wrote:I wacked the rod in a vice around the thrust bearing, 

Congratulations on surmounting that challenge. 

Unless there were bearing balls in a cage that you were whacking, what was being whacked was a bearing race seated on a spacer. 

When it comes down to a transmission with seized input and output shafts with which I had no personal acquaintance or history, if it were mine I'd give the both input shaft and output shaft a couple of whacks on their ends with a dead blow hammer then see if that convinced them to rotate. That's my version of donning a wingsuit and flying through a rock arch. 

Laitch wrote:

dallasf wrote:I wacked the rod in a vice around the thrust bearing, 

Congratulations on surmounting that challenge. 

Unless there were bearing balls in a cage that you were whacking, what was being whacked was a bearing race seated on a spacer. 

When it comes down to a transmission with seized input and output shafts with which I had no personal acquaintance or history, if it were mine I'd give the both input shaft and output shaft a couple of whacks on their ends with a dead blow hammer then see if that convinced them to rotate. That's my version of donning a wingsuit and flying through a rock arch. 

Bit of brute force hopefully does the job. My old gearbox shaft moves freely so maybe a quick exchange will do the trick.

dallasf wrote:Bit of brute force hopefully does the job. 

Consider the deadblow hammer maneuver more like kinetic emphasis.

Cant just swap the main input shaft the 16v engines had a different ratio 5th gear so the corresponding gear on the centre shaft also has to match.

Not wishing to teach anyone to 'suck eggs', but are you sure the 'seized/stuck' transmission isn't just in gear. Trying to turn the input shaft by hand with the bike in gear is difficult.

Mike

mike d wrote:Not wishing to teach anyone to 'suck eggs', but are you sure the 'seized/stuck' transmission isn't just in gear. Trying to turn the input shaft by hand with the bike in gear is difficult.

Mike

Agreed, but it's definitely in neutral.

dallasf wrote:. . . it's definitely in neutral.

If I were trying to determine that—I haven't had the need yet—I'd click up the shifter until I thought it was in Fifth gear, wrap a strap wrench around the input shaft then turn the shaft clockwise as I faced it and check to see if the output shaft were moving. If it was, I'd click down to Fourth and repeat. When I reached Neutral, the output shaft wouldn't be moving. First gear could also start this process, too but, in either case, I'd need to rule out false Neutrals as I go and verify I had tried all gears. The strap wrench handle gives some leverage that I could also extend. It would take some modification. What I would guard against is damaging the splines on either shaft. Another way would be to connect a drive shaft to the output shaft then turn it with a pipe wrench.

Please describe how verified you were in Neutral. It seems unlikely that you would get a seized transmission sold to you after damaging your own although commerce can be brutal sometimes.

Laitch wrote:

dallasf wrote:. . . it's definitely in neutral.

If I were trying to determine that—I haven't had the need yet—I'd click up the shifter until I thought it was in Fifth gear, wrap a strap wrench around the input shaft then turn the shaft clockwise as I faced it and check to see if the output shaft were moving. If it was, I'd click down to Fourth and repeat. When I reached Neutral, the output shaft wouldn't be moving. First gear could also start this process, too but, in either case, I'd need to rule out false Neutrals as I go and verify I had tried all gears. The strap wrench handle gives some leverage that I could also extend. It would take some modification. What I would guard against is damaging the splines on either shaft. Another way would be to connect a drive shaft could be connected to the output shaft then turned with a pipe wrench.

Please describe how verified you were in Neutral. It seems unlikely that you would get a seized transmission sold to you after damaging your own although commerce can be brutal sometimes.

You're amazing! Just tried that and it's spinning. Time to put it together again. Wish me luck!

Never a dull moment here. Saw some oil at the bottom of the bell housing while adding the clutch back on, so I had to take a look. This seal was changed with the .5m offset. Can't understand how this has happened. O-ring was in place. Looks like I gotta go deeper again with a new seal.

I believe this was a problem with the o-ring. Upon investigation it seems too large, lots of play.

When installing the oring should it be pushed to the back as far as possible?

dallasf wrote:O-ring was in place. 
This seal was changed with the .5m offset. Can't understand how this has happened. 

The o-ring should have been changed when the seal was replace. It seems to be the most frequent source of oil leaks.

Which type of shaft seal did you use? There's a Teflon seal with no spring inside it; there's another type of seal with a spring inside it. The Teflon seal doesn't get soaked in oil. I can only guess what you've got in there. It'd help if you wiped down the surface of the seal for the next photo. How did you establish the 0.5mm distance when installing it.

Laitch wrote:

dallasf wrote:O-ring was in place. 
This seal was changed with the .5m offset. Can't understand how this has happened. 

The o-ring should have been changed when the seal was replace. It seems to be the most frequent source of oil leaks.

Which type of shaft seal did you use? There's a Teflon seal with no spring inside it; there's another type of seal with a spring inside it. The Teflon seal doesn't get soaked in oil. I can only guess what you've got in there. It'd help if you wiped down the surface of the seal for the next photo. How did you establish the 0.5mm distance when installing it.

Hi, this seal had no spring in it. I am on my phone so I can't add the link but bought it from motorworks in the UK. I changed the o-ring as I had to cut the old one to get it off. The replacement o-ring has a heap of play, I believe it was too large and is it can come on and off very easily.

The .5m offset was a very slow process using a washer to measure the .5m.

I pulled the old seal out, so it's ruined now.

I'll do it again, fill engine with oil and wait. Just thought I would update you all.

"I changed the o-ring as I had to cut the old one to get it off. The replacement o-ring has a heap of play, I believe it was too large and is it can come on and off very easily. "

I'm inclined to think this your problem.  

As far as installing the seal, I got a small piece of wood and glued a ring I cut from a breakfast cereal box to it as a gauge of the .5mm.  

I made the ring by tracing the new seal on the cardboard and cutting out the center.  Use the gauge by starting the seal and then putting the gauge on it and tap the gauge to drive the seal into the engine block.  The cardboard will stop it when the seal is the correct offset.

Point-Seven-five wrote:"I changed the o-ring as I had to cut the old one to get it off. The replacement o-ring has a heap of play, I believe it was too large and is it can come on and off very easily. "

I'm inclined to think this your problem.  

As far as installing the seal, I got a small piece of wood and glued a ring I cut from a breakfast cereal box to it as a gauge of the .5mm.  

I made the ring by tracing the new seal on the cardboard and cutting out the center.  Use the gauge by starting the seal and then putting the gauge on it and tap the gauge to drive the seal into the engine block.  The cardboard will stop it when the seal is the correct offset.

Great! Thanks for the tip.

Where did you get the loose O ring from? 

Could you post some details so we know one type to avoid?

I ordered from motorworks, just the flywheel o-ring. Maybe I just got a dummy ring.

Bonus, thanks.

When Matt did his rear main seal he had 4 "O" rings, all different sizes. He also had a few variations with the rear main seal.
Regards Martin.

Do you remember which brand was the brew that is true?

dallasf wrote:. . . just the flywheel o-ring.

Where did you come up with that nomenclature? It's an output shaft o-ring. Motorworks calls it an output shaft to clutch carrier o-ring.