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1Back to top Go down   Suspension Empty Suspension Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:09 pm

Rickmeister

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Dear All,

On recent trip to the annual Snowy Ride, full panniers, tools etc, solo, the back suspension was bottoming out on even the slightest irregularities in the road. The spring is on its hardest setting. A mate said some time ago that these rear shocks are prone to sacking out reasonably quickly. The old girl has done about 78,000 Km. I believe it's still the original shock. (Ex-police, K100LT)

Also, general cornering, she seems to "wallow", v.soft suspension, but seems to handle OK, not that I know any difference as this is the first bike I have ridden on the road for about 40 years. I had a ride on a mate's 2003 Triumph Sprint, and its suspension was very firm compared to mine and ripped through the bends v.Casey Stoner like!

So, the upshot of all of this is: any suggestions as to the for most effective (cost and performance) solution and what grade front fork fluid is generally used? I used to use automatic transmission fluid in the forks of my dirt bikes (Ossa and Husqvarna)

Any comments/suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanx!

Rick G.

    

2Back to top Go down   Suspension Empty Re: Suspension Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:10 pm

Ned

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How was the trip? I really wanted to go, but was away. any pics?

I imagine that the Alpine way would have tested your cornering abilities, thus your post.

Difficult to answer this with any kind of certainty, or facts. This is a strictly a testimonial zone and you will get a few I think.

For me, I would settle for a GOOD shock at a reasonable price. Yes, you can spent $$$ on a fantastic, fully adjustable, racing, touring, all singing and dancing shock, but I'll bet that you will be hard pressed to see a difference, most of the time.

Our bikes are 300kg loaded + rider, so you need to spring the thing correctly. You can even get a shorter rear shock if you are height challenged, but this may be a problem with getting the bike on the centre stand. My Goldwing has been lowered by 1 inch, front and back, and the centre stand was removed because the PO could not lift the bike to use it.

Australian manufacturer/suppliers are IKON (Albury, I think), but a number of English units are common. Expect to pay up to $600 for one, but if you shop around (this forum as well) a few bargains from the UK are possible.

A number of bike suspension places will service the thing, if possible, for under $200, but you need to ring around for that.

I use auto trans (latest Dexron ?sp) oil in the front. It works ok because the viscosity is at the heaver end of normal fork oil. I elect to change once per year so I am not fussed about the ultimate quality thing.

All above are just my opinions and you will find a lot of that, with each pilot having their favourite. Good luck soring it all out Smile


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Ned

05/1986 (K55) K100RS Motorsport (Europe), Production Code: 0503, 110k km, VIN:0140519 (SOLD)
1976 Honda Goldwing GL1000 (naked)
1997 BMW K1200RS red, VIN: WB10544A1VZA22667
    

3Back to top Go down   Suspension Empty Re: Suspension Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:39 am

Guest

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I located and bought a new, US-made Works Performance rear shock late last year on eBay after realising my original shockie was crap and allowing the bike to wallow in the bendy bits. I paid under US$400 delivered to OZ. It solved the back end irregularities. I tried 10w fork oil but eventually settled on 5w because I am light and the 'S' forks I retrofitted to my bike from a K75S were too harsh initially. I am using a Progressive Suspension single rear shock on one of my Airheads and have a set of Italian-made Bitubo shocks on my dual shock Airhead too. There are loads of brands out there. I'd contact Ikon in Albury for a quote on their version. I wouldn't buy a secondhand shock unless you knew it had under 30,000 kms and was not ridden by a Macca's-lovin' Sumo wrestler.

    

4Back to top Go down   Suspension Empty Re: Suspension Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:12 am

Rickmeister

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Thanks, lads! I will contact Ikon in the first instance and see what they have got to say.

BTW, is it possible to host multiple pictures (Snowy Ride), say 10 off, in the one hit? I've read Bert's doo-dad and it seems that I can only do one at a time, although other forummers have posted multiple...

Cheers, Rick G.

    

5Back to top Go down   Suspension Empty Re: Suspension Wed Nov 17, 2010 6:25 am

Crazy Frog

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Ulrich_Grabau wrote:
BTW, is it possible to host multiple pictures (Snowy Ride), say 10 off, in the one hit? I've read Bert's doo-dad and it seems that I can only do one at a time, although other forummers have posted multiple...
Cheers, Rick G.

After inserting a picture into your post, click the 'Preview' button and you will get a chance to insert a second one.

Bert


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Suspension Frog15Suspension Logo2101986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML GT2 sidecar, 1999 K1200lt/Hannigan Astro Sport sidecar.
    

6Back to top Go down   Suspension Empty Re: Suspension Wed Nov 17, 2010 6:52 am

beachcomber

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There are various threads around concerning the RAM shocker that I co-developed with Realm Engineering [www.realmengineering.com. ] I developed it especially for the Kay series, initially because I wanted a quality shocker for a reasonable price. I went on to develop a 1"shorter shocker for my vertically challenged inside leg measurement.

The shox have been in production now for over 12 months with 250+ units sold Worldwide. As a forum member you get a 10% discount. The range has been expanded to include K75/K100/K1100 and K1. Prior to that the same manufacturer has been making shox for Realm's Race and Road replicas for 20 years.

In the UK a CM350/10 [ K100 ] shocker retails for £195 [ less your 10%]. There will be a general price rise in the UK in Jan as our domestic tax [ VAT ] is increasing to 20%. Rolling Eyes

Suspension SONAVON039

    

7Back to top Go down   Suspension Empty Re: Suspension Wed Nov 17, 2010 6:58 am

Adiwan Djohanli

Adiwan Djohanli
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I changed / lowered the rear shock because it was too high and too hard.

The local BMW shop quoted me USD 900 for a new lower rear shock...very expensive for an old 1984 K100RS of mine.

So I got a mono shock of Kawasaki Ninja 250, USD 120. I need to cut a bit of the fitting hole. This shock is 4cm lower than the original. I need this considering my height. It is fantastic...very GOOD fit and excellent to ride.

The bike will lower about 2cm when I am on the bike. It is very good shock for a good price.

Cheers.


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Adiwan Djohanli
Jakarta-Indonesia[i]
    

8Back to top Go down   Suspension Empty Re: Suspension Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:07 am

japuentes

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Hi there, my K100rs had the same aging problem with the rear shock.
I wanted a Beacomber´s one but none of the local importers would offer it so the best offer was for a Progressive 461, fited perfectly and the bike rides way much better, only had made one 1000 miles ride with it.
As for the front forks the automatic transmission fluid is my choice.
Best regards
JAP

    

9Back to top Go down   Suspension Empty Re: Suspension Wed Nov 17, 2010 1:48 pm

Adiwan Djohanli

Adiwan Djohanli
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Additional information.

The mono shock of Kawasaki Ninja 250, USD 120 is made by Showa-Japan.


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Adiwan Djohanli
Jakarta-Indonesia[i]
    

10Back to top Go down   Suspension Empty Re: Suspension Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:45 pm

Guest

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An important thing to remember is that for every centimetre the back end is lowered (due to using a shorter shock) the front end should be lowered too. This is easy - just loosen the triple clamp bolts and slide the fork tubes up slightly - in reality you are pushing the triple clamps down. The objective being to move the tubes the same distance as the shock length reduction. You will lose some suspension travel, obviously. If you don't match these measurements the bike won't look like Captain's America's chopper but might handle something like it.

Then there's the side and centre stands to think about...

    

11Back to top Go down   Suspension Empty Re: Suspension Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:39 pm

beachcomber

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@Two Wheels Better wrote:An important thing to remember is that for every centimetre the back end is lowered (due to using a shorter shock) the front end should be lowered too. This is easy - just loosen the triple clamp bolts and slide the fork tubes up slightly - in reality you are pushing the triple clamps down. The objective being to move the tubes the same distance as the shock length reduction.


Not exactly so Obe-Wan - I know what you mean - but a 1" shorter shocker does NOT result in a 1" reduction in ride height - Pythagoras and all that jazz.

Also - there are many other factors to take into consideration in making the assumption that your bike had the OEM designed geometery in the first place. Tyre sizes, worn springs, rider weight, etc.,etc.

I carried out a LOT of research into the geometery when I was developing the RAM shocker, and especially the 1" shorter version as some richard craniums were claiming that a 1" shorter shocker would result in UJ lockup Rolling Eyes - ha,ha,ha.

In fact, not ONE of the 7 bikes we used for our database had the same geometery as stock !

So, what to do ? Well we did testing on a closed race circuit for BEST results using a stock K100 set up with a good OEM shocker and new OEM front springs to create a baseline before swapping in the new RAM stuff and experimenting with steering head angles. We later did the same test with a K1100 [ RS' in both cases].

We found the optimum for best all round performance [ NOT neccessarily touring ] to be with the forks tubes raised around 10mm. with the 25mm. shorter rear shocker.

The side stand was in fact at a BETTER angle, although HAD a main stand been fitted it would have no doubt required a bit more effort to get the bike up on it.

Excuse the bold, big font - can't seem to return to "normal".

    

12Back to top Go down   Suspension Empty Re: Suspension Wed Nov 17, 2010 6:01 pm

Ned

Ned
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@Adiwan Djohanli wrote:Additional information.

The mono shock of Kawasaki Ninja 250, USD 120 is made by Showa-Japan.

Adiwan, can you send a pic of that arrangement fitted? I like to see how it was done.
Ned


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I reserve the right to voice my opinions on any subject known to man
Ned

05/1986 (K55) K100RS Motorsport (Europe), Production Code: 0503, 110k km, VIN:0140519 (SOLD)
1976 Honda Goldwing GL1000 (naked)
1997 BMW K1200RS red, VIN: WB10544A1VZA22667
    

13Back to top Go down   Suspension Empty Re: Suspension Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:13 am

Guest

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My Works Performance shock is the 19mm or 3/4" shorter than stock version and with the tubes slid up in the triple clamps about 75% of the shock's shortened height the bike handles like a stock configuration. I tried increasing it and decreasing it, nothing worked as well, either the steering slowed down too much or became a bit quicker, but never too much quicker since these olde girlz are barges, so I settled. The reason for my comment is that I read that someone here used a 40mm shorter shock and that would surely have resulted in a quite leaden front end steering feel if the tubes were left in the original position. But hey, some might not even notice it... Wink

    

14Back to top Go down   Suspension Empty Re: Suspension Thu Nov 18, 2010 6:36 am

beachcomber

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Absolutely TWB - experimentation is the name of the game, otherwise we don't advance. Wink

I was looking for quicker steering to match my much lighter bike, larger tyres and the fact that I never take a passenger. Plonk on a 200lbs passenger / fill panniers and see what that does to the steering angle. We tried all combinations - on the bench in the workshop and on the track and road. Remember, what BMW quote as the steering angle will undoubtedly be NOT what you have on a 3/5/10/15 year old bike Rolling Eyes . So......do you use the BMW stated geometery as a starting point, or what you actually have in the real World before you start playing? Very Happy That's why we checked the geometery on 7 individual bikes. We actually started with just 2, but they were so wildly different - we thought we'd take a broader base range.

I'm actually modifying a frame to steepen the angle to get closer to the modern ranges, that will allow me to return to near stock setting to establish a baseline.

BTW - you don't lose or gain any suspension [ spring ] movement by raising / lowering the fork tubes as all the suspension takes place inside the fork tubes - ground clearance yes. Eventually you would have an interference between the mudguard / bodywork /other, but that's well outside the parameters of 1/2" - 1" of change.

    

15Back to top Go down   Suspension Empty Re: Suspension Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:01 am

Adiwan Djohanli

Adiwan Djohanli
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Hello Ned,

Please see the pictures of Showa Rear Shock. It is about 4cm lower than original.

Suspension Showa_11Suspension Showa_12Suspension Showa_13


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Adiwan Djohanli
Jakarta-Indonesia[i]
    

16Back to top Go down   Suspension Empty Re: Suspension Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:22 pm

beachcomber

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First observation Adivan is that the stroke [ fully open to fully closed ] is dramatically resuced from the 4"+ of the OEM unit. That's assuming that you have the sag set at approx 1/3rd of the stroke.

When I was developing the RAM I insisted that they maintained the minimum factory stroke - actually slightly exceeded. This allows for full bump and rebound under all conditions. Remember "topping out" is just as bad as "bottoming out". Wink

    

17Back to top Go down   Suspension Empty Re: Suspension Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:42 pm

Guest

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At just over AU$315.00+shipping (at today's exchange rate) that RAM shocker does look the biz, Beachcomber. I'm curious what other colours you have available for the spring, and if you offer different spring rates? I tend toward being light and don't often carry a passenger, but do tote some camping equipment on some voyages. My Works shock 'works' well but is limited in that it has only a ramp-style spring preload with no damping adjustment provision. Is the RAM fitted in the inverted position as the stock shock is? I've visited the website using a Google search but it offered only a small amount of information, as far as I could see. Thanks.

    

18Back to top Go down   Suspension Empty Re: Suspension Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:14 pm

beachcomber

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Hi TWB,

I'm not sure about the OZ $, but I do know the K1100OG guys are lapping them up - just taken 15 units as the US $ is very favourble and the RAM shocker is cheaper than the competition in the UK anyway.

Each unit is specially selected [ body and spring ] to suit the customer's weight and riding style. I'll flag up a pic of the unit fitted FYI. You just send us the details of the max and minimum payloads, riding style and preferrences and we do the rest. Cool Cool

Standard spring is Black with Red as an on cost option. The Yellow hasn't proved popular, so has been shelved for the time being.

The shocker is fitted in the OEM orientation, however we are experimenting with a Competition / Severe Duty version in the USD position.

As you can see the pre-load is finely adjustable via a screwed collar platform. Dampening is adjustable at the click of the external knurled knob [ 13 positions ]. This is so easy to adjust, it can be achieved with gloves on !

Should you need more info. just post up or PM me. Laughing

BTW - the Realm website is being updated next year as there will be more motorcycle related products upcoming. Wink
Suspension SteveRedspring



Last edited by beachcomber on Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:17 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add picture)

    

19Back to top Go down   Suspension Empty Re: Suspension Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:27 pm

Adiwan Djohanli

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Dear BC,

The pictures show open stroke. Bearing in mind, I am a small person at 62 kg. Sometime I take my gear up to additional 25 kg.

The road in Jakarta and Indonesia are bumpy / uneven mostly. However I still ride over 80km/h when the traffic permit it. No speed limit here Mad


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Adiwan Djohanli
Jakarta-Indonesia[i]
    

20Back to top Go down   Suspension Empty Re: Suspension Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:45 pm

Crazy Frog

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@Adiwan Djohanli wrote:No speed limit here Mad

affraid Laughing cheers Twisted Evil


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Suspension Frog15Suspension Logo2101986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML GT2 sidecar, 1999 K1200lt/Hannigan Astro Sport sidecar.
    

21Back to top Go down   Suspension Empty Re: Suspension Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:45 pm

Alex_GER

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If it wasn't for that stupid TÜV here in Germany I would've already gotten a RAM... Sad
I had a look at it on Six1's bike when he had one and he said it was the best suspension he ever put in his bike...

Now I have to settle with a used original BMW sports suspension, which is a million times better than the old stock one anyway.

Looking forward to hear from RAM in the future...


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Jod alles chlor, liebe Krüße,
euer KLotz
Suspension E088Doenerschuss || Portfolio || MPI
http://www.students.uni-mainz.de/alotz/portfolio/
    

22Back to top Go down   Suspension Empty Re: Suspension Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:11 am

beachcomber

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Alex - don't despair !!!!!!!

We realise that Germany must be the single largest market for used Kays !!! Cool

We are working with guys over on the Flying Brick site to get the dreaded TUV approval.

The TUV guys have already looked at the shocker for an opinion - no problem from a technical point as it's far superior to the OEM part.

However there is the cost and they also require drawings etc. We're working on it now.

Please remember, here in the UK goods must also be made to a certain quality [ don't laugh ] before they can be sold to the public AND they must pass a Roadworthy [ MOT ] test EVERY year.

As you know Michael Six is an honest and straight guy - he tells it like it is ! He is also one hell of a hard rider. I looked at the SIDE of the tyres on his Kay when he visited this year - they were MORE worn than the centre !!!! Shocked

As you know the RAM Power leads have gone down really well with the FB site guys - next with the shox - I promise.

Alex, in your opinion, would the RAM be well received by Brickers in Germany?

The K11OG guys organised a group buy to reduce the carriage costs to the USA - feedback has been 100% positive. cheers

STILL working on replacement exhaust, wavy discs, etc. Wink Wink Wink

    

23Back to top Go down   Suspension Empty Re: Suspension Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:05 am

Alex_GER

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My bet is that it will be well received, especially since Six (and I guess Traktor as well) has a very high opinion on it. Unfortunately Six has been very quiet on the forum lately Crying or Very sad
The price can not be beaten as well (comparing to other producers like Wilbers). There is only one producer that offers suspensions for a good price and that's YSS and as far as I know they're trying to get an ABE (don't know if it is true and how that might affect their prices). But most people would prefer British quality over Asian (I think they're from Thailand).

At the moment one of the most common things (and it was the same with me) with new people on the forum is, that they complain about the wobbly feeling in curves. The first questions that always arise are about the suspension (and tires). And everyone that still has the stock is recommended to by a new rear shock (the most prominent one being Wilbers). So there is a rather high demand from people. The expertise on the forum needs to be convinced that the RAM is the way to go. And with Six and Traktor, they are some very respected guys...


__________________________________________________
Jod alles chlor, liebe Krüße,
euer KLotz
Suspension E088Doenerschuss || Portfolio || MPI
http://www.students.uni-mainz.de/alotz/portfolio/
    

24Back to top Go down   Suspension Empty Re: Suspension Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:34 am

beachcomber

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Traktor has a RAM shocker for evaluation and has an idea for using them on his gespanne [?] sidecar.

As you might know Alex - these shox were developed from the ones we used on the Cobra Race cars for the past 15 years + - quality guaranteed. Wink

Yes - EVERYONE without exception has quoted the "wallowing ass" syndrome as the biggest problem - and the first solved with the RAM ! [ and other quality shox of course ].

Definitely have to pull our fingers out and get on with the TUV approval. Laughing

    

25Back to top Go down   Suspension Empty Re: Suspension Sun Nov 21, 2010 6:03 pm

Ned

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@Adiwan Djohanli wrote:Dear BC,

No speed limit here Mad


Wow, you just managed to successfully invite several hundredblokes to Indonesia SmileSmile


__________________________________________________
I reserve the right to voice my opinions on any subject known to man
Ned

05/1986 (K55) K100RS Motorsport (Europe), Production Code: 0503, 110k km, VIN:0140519 (SOLD)
1976 Honda Goldwing GL1000 (naked)
1997 BMW K1200RS red, VIN: WB10544A1VZA22667
    

26Back to top Go down   Suspension Empty Re: Suspension Sun Nov 21, 2010 6:14 pm

Crazy Frog

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@Ned wrote:
@Adiwan Djohanli wrote:Dear BC,

No speed limit here Mad


Wow, you just managed to successfully invite several hundred blokes to Indonesia SmileSmile
I will be part of this trip Very Happy Very Happy


__________________________________________________
Suspension Frog15Suspension Logo2101986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML GT2 sidecar, 1999 K1200lt/Hannigan Astro Sport sidecar.
    

27Back to top Go down   Suspension Empty Re: Suspension Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:22 pm

Adiwan Djohanli

Adiwan Djohanli
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Guys,

Thanking you for your interest. Please note, in Java and Bali, most of road is NOT smooth or even and traffic volume is high. Motor bikes are NOT allowed in motor ways scratch . The traffic is much better condition in the small country roads. Therefore speed limit is NATURALLY "applied".

I shall be very happy to be your host...at your service.

Best regards.


__________________________________________________
Adiwan Djohanli
Jakarta-Indonesia[i]
    

28Back to top Go down   Suspension Empty Re: Suspension Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:28 pm

CaperKen

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Bert, I noticed your K75 on the BMWONS site and it appears that you have an Ohlins rear shock installed. Also on that page, you stated that you like the K75 better for the twisties. How much of your preference for the K75 is due to the shocks, roughly? And, what effect could be expected by replacing the shock on a K100RS with a quality unit such as your Ohlins?

If anyone else has made this replacement and can compare before & after, I'd love to hear your opinions. Ken

    

29Back to top Go down   Suspension Empty Re: Suspension Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:37 am

Ajays

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Suspension Mongolia%201
Having a spot of a problem with suspension, Don't have any, problem solved.
Ajays

    

30Back to top Go down   Suspension Empty Re: Suspension Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:26 pm

Adiwan Djohanli

Adiwan Djohanli
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Ajay,

That is what I called rigid frame.. Laughing

The old BSA, Norton, Matchless have rigid frame on them and spring supported seats.

Cheers.


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Adiwan Djohanli
Jakarta-Indonesia[i]
    

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