BMW K bikes (Bricks)

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Dai

Dai
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Annnddd... considering I'm supposed to know what I'm doing with motorcycle electrics, you can all laugh.

That includes you, Stu.

Search-fu has failed me because I could have sworn I've seen this in here somewhere.

Symptoms:

- fuel pump does not run-on when the starter is pressed. It stops immediately the button is released
- LED test on the fuel injectors: LED flashes once when the starter is pressed and once when it is released. No flash while engine cranky-wa...
- of course, no spark at the plugs

What's been checked:

- been through Bert's troubleshooting and nothing turned up bad. Couldn't do the engine running tests of course
- the wiring loom but that doesn't rule it out because I built it (this is no.5 K100 loom)
- ICU has been swapped
- FICU has been swapped
- both cross-tested okay on LFB
- HES have been swapped out for three different ones, which doesn't mean I haven't buggered them all because I haven't cross-checked by putting one on LFB. I know: I should but...
- engine turns over fine
- fuel pump runs while the button is held down
- everything that is not part of the ignition subloom works okay.

What I'm about to do:

- fit one of the HES plates to LFB to make sure I haven't blown them
- junk the ignition subloom and make another one
- fill in the hole where I kept banging my head against the workbench
- buy up all the stocks of painkillers in the village.

This is the RT, not the RS, for all the difference that should make.


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec, 1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

92KK 84WW Olaf

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Had that issue on my RT Dai......

The signal is coming from start button ok as you have correctly identified.
Missing the signal from the HES.

No spark AND no fuel pump signal from HES interrupted as in a faulty HES/cable/plug to ICU or fault in ICU. If it occurs later you do get spark and no fuel pump?.

My tuppence....

But, a friends K75 that seemed to have a similar issue his FICU plug under the seat had not been properly connected. I say seemed because no one checked to see if it had a spark simply because checking the FICU plug is quicker and he had been at the battery making it a prime suspect .



Last edited by 92KK 84WW Olaf on Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:29 pm; edited 1 time in total


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 37,190 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 42,640 miles.

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

yankeeone

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Platinum member
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These issues can drive you crazy.

    

Dai

Dai
Life time member
Life time member
Looks like I'm going to have to swap in a spare HES plate to LFB (and the two ICUs while I'm at it). If the HES is shot, does that mean I go down in K history as the idiot who managed to blow three HES plates in quick succession? Have no idea how I would have done it though.

If the swap does work then it has to be a fault in my wiring. That would actually be a relief.


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec, 1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

92KK 84WW Olaf

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Life time member
Life time member
The connector from the HES.......goes into one in the bike loom....check the bike loom one very very carefully. I had an issue in that and effect is the same...loss of HES signal.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 37,190 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 42,640 miles.

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

6Back to top Go down   Another bit of no sparky-warky malarky Empty No sparky malarky Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:41 pm

daveyson

daveyson
Life time member
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I'm with Olaf. I think I've reproduced your symptoms by unplugging the hall sensors plug, so hopefully a bad connection somewhere there.


__________________________________________________
11/1985 bmw k100rt (late model)  Vin. 0090567
 ~120,000 km
    

7Back to top Go down   Another bit of no sparky-warky malarky Empty Another bit of no sparky-malarky Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:19 pm

Tom GR

Tom GR
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Life time member
Dai, It's not like you to let this no sparky bit get you, you being a spark guru on this forum. I can't remember you having posts about any issue. Cheers Tom


__________________________________________________
1986 K100RT Ex Police (Slightly modified)
2010 Suzuku DL650 V Strom
1992 R100R
    

Arlina

Arlina
Moderator
Moderator
Indeed, time to check the subloom....

(Never knew we had headbangers as members Razz  )


__________________________________________________
Another bit of no sparky-warky malarky Eu-log10  K1100RS/LT - R1200RT - R1100RS (RIP) - Cagiva SST 350 Ala Verde - K75LT project - K75 Schurgers - K75S
    

Dai

Dai
Life time member
Life time member
Tom: knowing when you're beat is usually a good start to fixing a problem.

I wuz beat Another bit of no sparky-warky malarky 44271 Another bit of no sparky-warky malarky 44271


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec, 1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

Tom GR

Tom GR
Life time member
Life time member
Big thumb Big thumb Big thumb


__________________________________________________
1986 K100RT Ex Police (Slightly modified)
2010 Suzuku DL650 V Strom
1992 R100R
    

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
Life time member
I'm going with a frame ground connection fault because I'm convinced of Dai's wiring competence, and he's visited Florida. Smile


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 81,000 miles
Another bit of no sparky-warky malarky Usa-lo10
    

Dai

Dai
Life time member
Life time member
@Laitch wrote:I'm going with a frame ground connection fault because I'm convinced of Dai's wiring INcompetence, and he's visited Florida. Smile
Weelll... somehow I've managed to destroy two sets of HES. I did find a wiring fault - I'd wired up the temperature switching unit plug arse-about-face ie. pin A2 to A3 and pin E to pin 9 etc.. Had to dismantle the RS to find that one - the more I looked at the diagram on the TSU cover, the more confused I got. Why in hell's name did BMW put all the pin numbers next to the pins on every unit in the relay box except the TSU? 

Expensive lesson.

Probably going to get more expensive because I have another HES on the bench that I think I may have also destroyed for the same reason. Then I need to go to Motorworks for a replacement.

Expensive = c. £500 in total.

Bollox. Crying or Very sad


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec, 1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
Life time member
@Dai wrote:
@Laitch wrote:I'm going with a frame ground connection fault because I'm convinced of Dai's wiring INcompetence, and he's visited Florida. Smile
I did find a wiring fault . . .
Further proof of competence! cheers


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 81,000 miles
Another bit of no sparky-warky malarky Usa-lo10
    

Dai

Dai
Life time member
Life time member
Yup. 3-0 to the HES.

















Dammit.


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec, 1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

Dai

Dai
Life time member
Life time member
Odd. Very odd. One fails the bench test but runs the bike; another passes the bench test and won't spark.


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec, 1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

Dai

Dai
Life time member
Life time member
So I've ordered five CYHME56C HE sensors from Sonnecy in Germany. Why five? 'Coz it was only €4 more than ordering four...


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec, 1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

tinyspuds

tinyspuds
Life time member
Life time member
@Dai wrote:Annnddd... considering I'm supposed to know what I'm doing with motorcycle electrics, you can all laugh.

That includes you, Stu.
I wouldn’t laugh mate. The FI/IGN components are the only thing I don’t love about the K. 
I try to keep everything well maintained (although not pretty) but feel completely at the mercy of these aging electronics. If I could find all new components I would spend the money and worry less on the road. I’m too old to sit around waiting for recovery wagons or to worry about having too.
TBH, to the extent that I’m considering retiring the beast in favour of something newer. Currently looking at a Hyabusa outfit that has caught my eye vs considering buying the BSK EMS and modernising the whole setup.
Good luck with the sparky bits and hopefully see you in Feb when we renew our lives. (and I will have got there worry free or very very quickly Very Happy )


__________________________________________________
1985 BMW K100RT + Hedingham HUB and LL’s. VIN 0028106. (Not blind to the irony of an April 1 production date).
1986 K100RS in boxes. VIN 0141918.
1954 Royal Enfield 350 Bullet. Original.
    

Dai

Dai
Life time member
Life time member
Oh ffs!!! (sorry guys). I've just seen the price of a s/h HES plate on BSK. Half the cost of anywhere else  Twisted Evil   Same for the LT adjustable windscreen - I was preening myself for having got two for around £165 (I think it was - there was also a vgc fairing upper thrown in with that lot). Not so cocky now - could have got two from BSK for just about £100.

I took a look at the EMS out of interest; it costs more than LFB is worth. It has given me an idea though. I was looking at making my own shielded HES leads last night (why? Because  Very Happy ) as I've never been too happy with the angle of the OEM lead exiting the HES housing. I would have hit the same problem, but I'm not averse to taking a rasp to the outside of the HES housing to run the lead out straight. The downside of that is accidently catching it on the rare occasion that I do wash LFB.


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec, 1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

Dai

Dai
Life time member
Life time member
I've shot the idea of making my own HES cables. Just found some 4-core 16/0.2 (7.2mm dia) on ebay for £3.85/metre.


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec, 1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

tinyspuds

tinyspuds
Life time member
Life time member
@Dai wrote:
I took a look at the EMS out of interest; it costs more than LFB is worth.

I’ve looked a lot at the BSK stuff, but hadn’t even realised they sold used bits the community might be interested in, sorry all. You’re right about the relative values on the EMS vs our bikes. But the issue for me is, not trusting the electronics takes the shine off my longer trips (perhaps irrationally). The economic argument is upgrade a bike I love to modern specs vs buying a modern bike.
Who knows? I just dont want to spend a night in the snow half way to Capel Curig.


__________________________________________________
1985 BMW K100RT + Hedingham HUB and LL’s. VIN 0028106. (Not blind to the irony of an April 1 production date).
1986 K100RS in boxes. VIN 0141918.
1954 Royal Enfield 350 Bullet. Original.
    

Dai

Dai
Life time member
Life time member
@tinyspuds wrote:I just dont want to spend a night in the snow half way to Capel Curig.
I have Very Happy But that's another story.


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec, 1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

tinyspuds

tinyspuds
Life time member
Life time member
Another bit of no sparky-warky malarky 44271


__________________________________________________
1985 BMW K100RT + Hedingham HUB and LL’s. VIN 0028106. (Not blind to the irony of an April 1 production date).
1986 K100RS in boxes. VIN 0141918.
1954 Royal Enfield 350 Bullet. Original.
    

92KK 84WW Olaf

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
@Dai wrote:
@tinyspuds wrote:I just dont want to spend a night in the snow half way to Capel Curig.
I have Very Happy But that's another story.
I have done that too. Another story.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 37,190 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 42,640 miles.

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

92KK 84WW Olaf

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
@tinyspuds wrote:
@Dai wrote:
I took a look at the EMS out of interest; it costs more than LFB is worth.

I’ve looked a lot at the BSK stuff, but hadn’t even realised they sold used bits the community might be interested in, sorry all. You’re right about the relative values on the EMS vs our bikes. But the issue for me is, not trusting the electronics takes the shine off my longer trips (perhaps irrationally). The economic argument is upgrade a bike I love to modern specs vs buying a modern bike.
Who knows? I just dont want to spend a night in the snow half way to Capel Curig.
Another bit of no sparky-warky malarky 52338314
Pudding delivery and parts collection!!!


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 37,190 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 42,640 miles.

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

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