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1Back to top Go down   ...and this is the thanks i get.  Empty ...and this is the thanks i get. Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:56 pm

beanoldboy

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After reading the hubbub around the miraculous properties of dewatsit and having the further not insurmountable whoa of the intermittent speedo , I decided to do the electrical contacts in the k100. being my first bmw and my first disassembly of same , i proceeded with reckless abandon , had the tank off and the componentry exposes in three mid strength beers (coopers mild ale *taps side of nose knowingly*)
applied deoxit to every connector i could find. It needed a new thermo fan , so new fan and temp sensor went in , changed air filter , cleaned the air box etc.
Only to be rewarded with, after having tried make a good bike better, it now refuses to run right. Started and idled for a few seconds then , no.
it seems to be grumpy down low but will run with a bit of accelerator , a bit of a slap in the face when it was running right before i started.

Any thoughts on obvious traps a noobie can fall into ?
i went over the whole thing a second time, cleaned everything again, double checked the connections and re fitted all the breather components to ensure airtight integrity, also orderded the engine breather hose as it is original .
i noticed some grime in the plenum chamber, if this gets disturbed can it go straight into the injector or is there a filter of some sort before them?
now also , the headlight stays on (?) is this some secret bmw k100 code ?

anyway , i don't expect you to solve my problems, just thought it would be a good kick off for a discourse, or in the least you could get a giggle out of my frustration.

kind regards and bikes for sale

Nathan

http://www.airware.com.au
    

charlie99

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just a questiom bean ....did you undo the instrument connections at the back of the speedo ....i have heard that if reassembled 1 pin out strange things occur ...seeing that i live kinda close by ....do you need help ? pm comming

im thinking two heads and a extra set of eyes ,,,,may just see something different

    

Inge K.

Inge K.
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@beanoldboy wrote:now also , the headlight stays on (?) is this some secret bmw k100 code ?
Some more details on this one please. ..stays on when, light switch off..ignition off..high beam..low beam?

The grime in the plenum chamber will not go into your injectors, but could say hello when passing them
on its way down to your cylinders.
But it could be an idea to check if your AFM also is contaminated.

Inge K.

    

beanoldboy

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thanks Inge K , i cleaned the maf it is spotless and operates smoothly, any problems with spraying the sensor with deoxit?
the low beam comes on with the ignition on and doesnt go off with the starter button press , stays on with lights turned off , dash lights come on as normal though.
i will clean something else and it will all change, had a valiant that used to operate its wipers through left hand turns, i may have residual gremlins

http://www.airware.com.au
    

RicK G

RicK G
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Is it just the low beam or both. Disconect the plug that feeds the right handlebar switch, see what happens then the left handlebar switch and see what happens and also if there is anything pluged into the special equipment connector (flat 6 pin under the tank) and see what happens. This will narrow down where the problem is.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 2004 K1200GT 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki
    

charlie99

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we have seen melted cables to the headlight switches in here ....aparently its not uncommon ......my best guess is the cabling leaving the connector (under tank) to the lights switch has been moved and now a slight short has formed ...exactly where is the question .


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O...and this is the thanks i get.  Au-log10

'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
    

Albyalbatross1

Albyalbatross1
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I made the blunder of not reconnecting the temp sensor properly. She just would not start. I got sent to the download section and got the "Engine not starting flow chart". Try checking the connections, you can just reach right in.

    

charlie99

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@beanoldboy wrote:thanks Inge K , i cleaned the maf it is spotless and operates smoothly, any problems with spraying the sensor with deoxit?
had a valiant that used to operate its wipers through left hand turns, i may have residual gremlins



crikey.....NO... bean ....unless the stuff says on it in bold letters "sensor safe " dont go there.



aww shucks the poor old valiant ...giggle

    

RT

RT
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Bean Old Boy did you by chance undo the main Earth connection to the frame in your flurry of cleaning. It's bolted on to the bell housing thingo low down on RH side. Take it off and give it a good talking too and re attach. Can cause all sorts of weird things to happen.

    

charlie99

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aye rt ...a good and timely reminder .


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O...and this is the thanks i get.  Au-log10

'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
    

Inge K.

Inge K.
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@beanoldboy wrote:the low beam comes on with the ignition on and doesnt go off with the starter button press , stays on with lights turned off , dash lights come on as normal though.
Since the lights don`t go out with a press on the starter button, left hand side seems like OK, if your
load shedding relay function properly.
(to check the function of l.s.r., push and hold horn button, the horn should stop as soon you push
the starter button).
All power feed to l.h.s. goes via l.s.r.

On the right hand side you have the feed to the starter button and kill switch.
If the light goes out when removing fuse #1, you got a short in the start button circuit.
if not it`s in the kill switch circuit.

With ignition on and light switch off, what happens when you move the dimmer switch to the different
positions (high, low, pass)?
If nothing changes, the short is between dimmer switch and bulb.
If it changes as normal, the short is probably in r.h.s. assy.
(this is if your l.s.r. functions properly)

This is eliminated to the handlebar switches and the connectors, but the problem could be elsewhere.

Inge K.


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

blaKey

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Holy mackerel Inge!

I'm gonna have to copy that because I'll never remember it!


__________________________________________________
Neil
K100RS 1986 RED!

Dress for the ride and the potential slide.
    

charlie99

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wowa inge ...amazing ...!!!

worth investigating all the same

i might say ...better to have found this now ....before heading out on a long ride somewhere in between town and nowhere .

but im thinking all this is quite extrodinary ....and a change in how it was ..before ...these things make me think something has been replaced in the incorrect way ...a connector ...??? somewhere ... it s brain teaser worthy of an explore ..


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O...and this is the thanks i get.  Au-log10

'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
    

14Back to top Go down   ...and this is the thanks i get.  Empty Re: ...and this is the thanks i get. Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:17 am

Inge K.

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@blakey wrote:I'm gonna have to copy that
Could be a smart move, it`s the safest way to be shure you ain`t gonna need it.

Inge K.

    

15Back to top Go down   ...and this is the thanks i get.  Empty Re: ...and this is the thanks i get. Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:28 am

Inge K.

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@charlie99 wrote:but im thinking all this is quite extrodinary ....and a change in how it was ..before ...these things make me think something has been replaced in the incorrect way ...a connector ...??? somewhere ... it s brain teaser worthy of an explore ..
Rather difficult to replace these connectors incorrectly, I`ll guess a short have arised when
swimming around among wiring and connectors. We have to see if we can narrow it down, when
Beany comes back with more details.

Inge K.

    

charlie99

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aye inge ...i agree ,,,i had droped my phone number to him earlier yesterday ...heard nothing ...but thats good ...in a way ...im sure he wants to nut it out first hand ?

im thinking of the burned cables that i saw in albys wiring under tank (headlights ...if they got sufficiently hot ...they may have burned through others ...and just by mooving them has caused more anguish ?

i guess well see ..in time


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O...and this is the thanks i get.  Au-log10

'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
    

Inge K.

Inge K.
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@charlie99 wrote:im thinking of the burned cables that i saw in albys wiring under tank (headlights ...if they got sufficiently hot ...they may have burned through others ...and just by mooving them has caused more anguish ?
Yeah, do remember Albys switch assy connector.....it could be something similar but on r.h.s.

Inge K.

    

Albyalbatross1

Albyalbatross1
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AWWW GEEZZ you guys thinking of me..gone all warm and funny now!!lol!

    

beanoldboy

beanoldboy
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O.K time for an update, headlight now works as it should , after a tank removal and a quick disconnect and reconnect of the two handle bar switches ,
I did not see a flat six pin 'special' connector KFREAK ?
at any rate , the headlight drops out on button press like it should.
it is just running like a goat. The wiring on this one is unmolested and very neat and tidy , no signs of burn , pinching or creases, all connections checked four times now. new plugs will go in today .
RT; yes all earth connections were removed and scratched up with 80 grit and replaced, earth connections are solid.
Charlie99 ; i gave the sensor a good blast with deoxit , do you think i may have frozen it ?



Last edited by beanoldboy on Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

http://www.airware.com.au
    

beanoldboy

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@Albyalbatross1 wrote:I made the blunder of not reconnecting the temp sensor properly. She just would not start. I got sent to the download section and got the "Engine not starting flow chart". Try checking the connections, you can just reach right in.

i see the temp sensor is the first port of call for the fuel injection brains, as i replaced the temp sensor i reckon it is worth checking, but are these sensors polarised, i dont think they are, but i will swap cables around and let you know.
Appreciate the advice all.
N.

http://www.airware.com.au
    

Inge K.

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Congratulations with the result, I was looking forward to another brain teaser Sad .
It then have to be to figure out what really did happen........

The connector I`ll guess K Freak did have in mind, is round and in the relay box.

About the temp. sensor...it`s a dual element, one for the ECU, the other for the
fan management (both earthed through the coolant stub).

Inge K.

    

22Back to top Go down   ...and this is the thanks i get.  Empty Re: ...and this is the thanks i get. Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:04 pm

beanoldboy

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Inge K , so it stands to reason that if they are inverted (the sensor cables), all manner of shenanigans could ensue. i am going there right now and i will post from the shed pc

no that is a molded plug with the wire locking clip, cant be on upside down.



Last edited by beanoldboy on Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:13 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : information to light)

http://www.airware.com.au
    

23Back to top Go down   ...and this is the thanks i get.  Empty Re: ...and this is the thanks i get. Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:39 pm

Inge K.

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Since did notice grime in the plenum chamber, a bit of this and that must have been disturbed at the intake side, is all connections air tight?
Easiest way to check is to add some propane (or carburator cleaner,,,or start fluid) in the suspected areas.

Inge K.

    

24Back to top Go down   ...and this is the thanks i get.  Empty Re: ...and this is the thanks i get. Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:12 pm

beanoldboy

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ok, headlight is back on and she runs terrible and smells fuelly.
5 mins later, headlight off again.
found heaadlight switch connector has a cable melted onto its neighbour, i'll make repairs and report back . *shakes fist at cables, muttering about the ruthlessness and cruelty of inanimate objects*
must be nearly time for beer?



Last edited by beanoldboy on Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:55 pm; edited 1 time in total

http://www.airware.com.au
    

25Back to top Go down   ...and this is the thanks i get.  Empty Re: ...and this is the thanks i get. Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:50 pm

Inge K.

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@beanoldboy wrote:ok, headlight is back on.
You say that headlight is back on with the light switch off?
If it happens again, see if it makes any difference when you operate the dimmer switch (high,low,pass).

Inge K.

    

26Back to top Go down   ...and this is the thanks i get.  Empty Re: ...and this is the thanks i get. Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:55 pm

RicK G

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Yes Inge that connector is in the relay box I was thinking of my LT (ex police) there are many connectors under the tank.

Does it run OK if the headlight is off?

I reckon you have two seperate problems. The running rich one is most likely the sensor, you say it was changed, is it new?

The light is I would say most likely in the right switch assy. Do you have relays for the headlight? If so it doesn't take much current to operate like 40 milliamps, (from leakage) and they are possibly sticking.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 2004 K1200GT 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki
    

27Back to top Go down   ...and this is the thanks i get.  Empty Re: ...and this is the thanks i get. Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:02 am

beanoldboy

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K freak ,
the tep sensor is new yes, the maf sensor is original , in my cleaning delerium i have blasted the little sensor that lives in the airstream with deoxit, do you think i may have frozen it?

http://www.airware.com.au
    

28Back to top Go down   ...and this is the thanks i get.  Empty Re: ...and this is the thanks i get. Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:19 am

Inge K.

Inge K.
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Good point with headlight relays, K Freak.
Have been looking at it so far as a standard wiring, especially after it been mentioned that the wiring is unmolested, nice and tidy.

Inge K.


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

29Back to top Go down   ...and this is the thanks i get.  Empty Re: ...and this is the thanks i get. Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:55 am

charlie99

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more likely you have killed it ...all those sensors are chemically fragile and by making it ...more conductive with a film of stuff certainly wouldnt help .... (have killed a few petrol sensors in my time ...usibng the wrong stuff ) ,,,,look for an inert compound cleaner ..sensor safe ...and try and clean off the deoxit if you can ...good luck !!

    

Inge K.

Inge K.
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beanoldboy

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@charlie99 wrote:more likely you have killed it ...all those sensors are chemically fragile and by making it ...more conductive with a film of stuff certainly wouldnt help .... (have killed a few petrol sensors in my time ...usibng the wrong stuff ) ,,,,look for an inert compound cleaner ..sensor safe ...and try and clean off the deoxit if you can ...good luck !!

thank you mate,
I gave it a fair blast , not thinking that hydrocarbon is going to flash off at ridiculous cold(absence of heat)
that being said it says on the can , i checked after you mentioned it , it says suitable for all electronics , oh well , my mistake.
just about to check resistances throught the MAF E-9 terminals , thank you inge k .

i put a bid on the maf on ebay , i hope, if i am bidding against some one on here , that you are not in dire need of it, let me know ?

the tank should know how to take itself off soon

N

http://www.airware.com.au
    

RicK G

RicK G
admin
admin
I have two long fuel lines and an extension for the wiring to the fuel pump/ level gauge so I can run the engine while the tank is off the bike it helps big time.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 2004 K1200GT 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki
    

beanoldboy

beanoldboy
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i am having troulbe with the language , however the resistance values i used and found a few tolerances were out.

thank you for this ,

Nathan

http://www.airware.com.au
    

charlie99

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yep.. same here k freak..but i carry about a foot of hose with me on the bike ....that way i can plug both holes without too much leaking ....just in case

theres a couple of low toxisity cleaners around bean .... but dont get the electrolube circuit cleaner ,,,,that eats plastic ...just a heads up . maybe just water and a really fine brush ...wipe off with a tissue .


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O...and this is the thanks i get.  Au-log10

'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
    

beanoldboy

beanoldboy
Life time member
Life time member
yes i found the air temp sensor is in tolerance ,
when i changed the plugs i found them wet, and when i run the pressure out the line -unplug fuel pump and run engine- it runs well, like it is getting too much fuel, i plugged the old temp sensor in and out and the new fan in and out , no avail , and have made headlight repair and disassembled clean filed contacts and re assembled the right hand switch -that was a red herring as you pointed out KFREAK .
on the upside, the bike is clean and i have a better knowledge of its workings and i have worked up a mid strength thirst.



Last edited by beanoldboy on Sun Oct 16, 2011 5:19 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : hindsight is 20 20)

http://www.airware.com.au
    

charlie99

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clinks stubbies ....!!!! with some "cold" brew



perhaps a cleen up of the under seat "injection control computer " might be a good idea ...easy to get at ...and if its lost some signalling could well be part of the issue ....cant hurt at least

the connector just clips off from the rear ....then exposing the connections

    

Inge K.

Inge K.
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About runnin to rich: check the pressure regulator, use a tire pump with manometer.
It should open at 2,5 bar pressure.

Inge K.

    

beanoldboy

beanoldboy
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@charlie99 wrote:we have seen melted cables to the headlight switches in here ....aparently its not uncommon ......my best guess is the cabling leaving the connector (under tank) to the lights switch has been moved and now a slight short has formed ...exactly where is the question .
I found exactly that , a clean up and insulating and headlight problem solved

http://www.airware.com.au
    

charlie99

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nice one bean ....good work


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O...and this is the thanks i get.  Au-log10

'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
    

Inge K.

Inge K.
VIP
VIP
@beanoldboy wrote: I found exactly that , a clean up and insulating and headlight problem solved
I would advice to mount headlight relays, to relieve the load on the genuine connectors and switches,
and avoid problems with this circuit later on (especially the dimmer switch is a weak point).

All the connections you need is found at special equipment connector in the relay box, it`s also space
enough for the relays inside.

Inge K.

    

Albyalbatross1

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Laughing cheers good stuff.

    

beanoldboy

beanoldboy
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soblem prolved, it was the temp sensor, the new one i was sent has a different range and part number, bike idleing now to veryify fan

Hoorah

N.

thank you to all above for your time and help.

http://www.airware.com.au
    

charlie99

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woohoo nice work bean ......i had noticed that you had tweeked on some values of the temp sensors ....not being close to spec ...

but from what you were telling me it definatly sounded like there was little if any return to the tank after the presure regulator

nice problem solving ......but i have to add that it all gets a bit much when the frustration of nothing working, gets in the way .



but add the relays to the headlight ... huh ?

    

44Back to top Go down   ...and this is the thanks i get.  Empty Re: ...and this is the thanks i get. Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:01 pm

beanoldboy

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Yes the headlight relay will be forthcoming directly, I want to add some daytime run lights also, maybe just leds but they will be relay switched also. How do you switch your fogs charlie99?

http://www.airware.com.au
    

45Back to top Go down   ...and this is the thanks i get.  Empty Re: ...and this is the thanks i get. Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:26 pm

Inge K.

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If you are going for the LEDS (park light circuit?) a relay isn`t neceserry as the LEDS draws a very small current, a relay probably draws more (depending one which kind of LEDS and how many).

Inge K.

    

46Back to top Go down   ...and this is the thanks i get.  Empty Re: ...and this is the thanks i get. Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:36 pm

beanoldboy

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Yes my thoughts are leds in where the park light reflector lives. Probably a very easy and cheap safety mod

http://www.airware.com.au
    

47Back to top Go down   ...and this is the thanks i get.  Empty Re: ...and this is the thanks i get. Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:47 pm

Inge K.

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Could be that you find some use useful stuff if you search Shoganai`s "blue streak wrenchin` thread", at the K11OG forum.

Inge K.


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

48Back to top Go down   ...and this is the thanks i get.  Empty Re: ...and this is the thanks i get. Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:19 pm

charlie99

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um i use a accessory switch wired to the right handle bar cable loom ...under tank ....using the "park light " active wire as the feed to the switch then to the relay on the driving lamps ....that way theyre relay active on the load shed as well ....hope that helps

    

beanoldboy

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Gracious amigo.
this one makes fifty posts, may i have a silver star please teacher?

http://www.airware.com.au
    

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