BMW K bikes (Bricks)

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Speedaddictedberk

Speedaddictedberk
Silver member
Silver member
My K100 project is now road legal and I've been riding it about.
Occasionally the fuel pump stops working (you can hear it) and the bike dies. It also sometimes won't prime when starting, but it's usually fine. It did this 4 times today, once when cold, the rest when warmed up. Last time it was hard to start.
I tried cleaning the connector under the tank with no difference.

Could this be the hall effect sensor or do they normally fail completely? Not sure where to start with this one!

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Crazy Frog

Crazy Frog
admin
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If you are certain that the connections are good, you may have a problem with the FI relay. See location here  (under the tank in the electrical tray).
It could also be the plug of the EFI relay.
Are you doing anything on the bike between the time it stops and the time it restarts?

This happen to my brother few years ago.
The pump stopped, he remove the gas tank checked everything and couldn't find anything wrong.
Put everything together and the bike restarted again.
The connector for the fuel plug (under the tank) was the culprit.
Even if the connectors are clean, they may not make a good connection.

CF


__________________________________________________
85 K100 Fuel pump intermittent cutout Frog1585 K100 Fuel pump intermittent cutout Logo2101986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML GT2 sidecar, 1999 K1200lt/Hannigan Astro Sport sidecar.
    

Speedaddictedberk

Speedaddictedberk
Silver member
Silver member
I''ll try giving them a more thorough clean up and see if it makes any difference, hopefully that's all it is.
A couple of times I've heard the pump go quiet then kick in before the bike dies, when it's died at speed I pressed the starter with the clutch in (no clocks so it's clutch in to start) until it fired up.
It's never died for long, just enough to cause panic!

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Crazy Frog

Crazy Frog
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admin
@Speedaddictedberk wrote:I''ll try giving them a more thorough clean up and see if it makes any difference, hopefully that's all it is.
A couple of times I've heard the pump go quiet then kick in before the bike dies, when it's died at speed I pressed the starter with the clutch in (no clocks so it's clutch in to start) until it fired up.
It's never died for long, just enough to cause panic!
Try to pinch the female connectors to get a better squeeze on them.


__________________________________________________
85 K100 Fuel pump intermittent cutout Frog1585 K100 Fuel pump intermittent cutout Logo2101986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML GT2 sidecar, 1999 K1200lt/Hannigan Astro Sport sidecar.
    

k75RT Keith

k75RT Keith
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How much fuel is in your tank when this failure occurs?

    

RicK G

RicK G
admin
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I replaced the connector with a 4 pin plug with the spade type pins and have had no more trouble.
The OEM plugs are not a very good plug and probably are the most used plug on the bike and fail very frequently.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki
    

Speedaddictedberk

Speedaddictedberk
Silver member
Silver member
I'm just back from a trip round the West coast if Scotland on my other bike so can get into the garage again today.

It's cutting out when empty or full, I filled it and it pretended to be ok for a while before dying in the middle if no-where. Got it restarted and rode home.

I'll try crimping this plug first

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Inge K.

Inge K.
VIP
VIP
Also have a look in this thread.


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

Speedaddictedberk

Speedaddictedberk
Silver member
Silver member
Ok, crimped the plug and it pretended to be fixed for about 5 mins.
Then I turned it off using the killswitch and it's refusing to restart. The pump has primed briefly a couple of times then just dies again.
Wiggled the fuses with no effect. Wiggled the plug and unplugged it a couple of times with no effect.


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Inge K.

Inge K.
VIP
VIP
Check if you got power at fuse #6 when pushing the starter button and it refuses to start..........to narrow it down a bit.


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

bushyintas

bushyintas
Silver member
Silver member
posted this in another post from Badgerjim, not sure if an '85 is the same as my '84 but here it is any way....



I had the same issue with my cafe build.  replaced the plug on the cable end with one off an old C.B. radio microphone, it has the same configuration as well as a threaded knurled nut that screws over the tank gauge female fitting. It has worked now for a few years, never fallen off.

[url=http://search.jaycar.com.au/search?w=4 pin mic]http://search.jaycar.com.au/search?w=4%20pin%20mic%20plug&view=list[/url]

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-MICROPHONE-PLUGS-4-PIN-MIC-CB-RADIO-HAM-27mhz-MIKE-/190417511542?pt=AU_Electronics_Radio_Equipment&hash=item2c55c4a476

85 K100 Fuel pump intermittent cutout Untitl10

Good luck.


__________________________________________________
Bushy

k100 RT 1988 #0095723
K100 RT 1984 into Custom Single seat.  #0024503
    

Speedaddictedberk

Speedaddictedberk
Silver member
Silver member
Fuse 6 (2nd from the bottom?) gets power, but only .2v all the others get 12v

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robmack

robmack
Life time member
Life time member
Interesting solution.  The screw fastening is certainly reliable.

I'd choose an AMP Superseal connector in this application.  These are secure, correctly rated for the load and water resistant to IP54.
85 K100 Fuel pump intermittent cutout 4-way%2520Superseal
Available from Ebay extremely cheaply (seller hiteche).  I bought a selection from 2-way to 6-way from this guy when customizing my motorcycle.


__________________________________________________
Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

Inge K.

Inge K.
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VIP
If you measure only 0,2 volts when you push the starter button, the problem is most likely that the relay don't close its contacts....
next step would be to remove the tank and measure in the relay socket.


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

Speedaddictedberk

Speedaddictedberk
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Silver member
Will do, I'm now in garden centre hell with the wife !

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RicK G

RicK G
admin
admin
@Speedaddictedberk wrote:Will do, I'm now in garden centre hell with the wife !
 85 K100 Fuel pump intermittent cutout 44271


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki
    

Inge K.

Inge K.
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VIP
The injection relay you find at front/left in the relay box.
You could first put a finger on the relay and feel if the relay clicks
when you push the starter button.

With the relay removed, you should read in the socket:
Terminal 30: unswitced 12V+.
-----"---  86: 12V+ when ignition and kill switch on.
-----"---  85: ground, when pushing the starter button.


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

Speedaddictedberk

Speedaddictedberk
Silver member
Silver member
Home now, still scarred by a Saturday garden centre experience. Managed to get out of multiple garden centre visits just for a look.
Off to remove the cafe seat unit to allow access for tank removal. Tank is sadly full.

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Speedaddictedberk

Speedaddictedberk
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Silver member
85 isn't going to ground, others are correct

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Speedaddictedberk

Speedaddictedberk
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Silver member
Relay clicks when button is pressed

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Inge K.

Inge K.
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VIP
It's the ignition ECU behind the steering head that sends out the ground signal.
Which is based on signal from the starter button and one of the hall sensors.


EDIT: if the relay clicks, you certainly also must have ground at 85 when the button is pushed. This ground connection is the signal to the relay to close the contacts, which is the click you hear/feel.

Could measure at fuse #6 again, but before you mount back the relay check that the terminals is clean (both socket and relay) and that all contacts feels like they got a tight grip (between relay and socket).



Last edited by Inge K. on Sat May 31, 2014 10:49 am; edited 1 time in total


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

Speedaddictedberk

Speedaddictedberk
Silver member
Silver member
Ok, tested it by connecting between 30 and 85 while set to voltage, it gets 12v when starter pressed.

So am I down to ECI or Hall effect sensors?

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Inge K.

Inge K.
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@Speedaddictedberk wrote:So am I down to ECI or Hall effect sensors?

If the relay clicks when you push the starter button, ecu and hes is OK.
I have added info in my previous post.


I would suspect the relay itself, or the related connectors.


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

Speedaddictedberk

Speedaddictedberk
Silver member
Silver member
If the connection inside the relay was bad it would give the poor voltage and not fire up the fuel pump.
Can you open these or is replacement the best option

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Inge K.

Inge K.
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VIP
It can be opened, look in the bottom.....you see a notch at all four sides of the plastic housing.
(Yours maybe looks different...different manufacturers have been used during the years....early models did have a metal housing....but all can be opened).

Not impossible that you find one set (it should be double) of contacts burnt.


If it can be reused, probably, you have to judge the contacts.
Clean them with some fine emery paper, remove all traces of metal dust.....
preferably use compressed air, if available.


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

Speedaddictedberk

Speedaddictedberk
Silver member
Silver member
Ok pulled the relay and cleaned the contacts, also cleaned the pins.
Fuel pump is now working! Not sure if I've fixed it though because the bike won't start. May have fouled the plugs with fuel.
Battery is charging so I'll try again later!

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lsr

lsr
active member
active member
Could it be the ignition switch causing the fuel pump to cut out? 

Have you tried jiggling the key to the right in the ignition while the bike is running to see if it cuts out, or to the left while trying to start it to see if the fuel pump kicks in?

When I opened mine up it had one of the four springs loose causing inconsistent operation.

    

Speedaddictedberk

Speedaddictedberk
Silver member
Silver member
I tried jiggling the key when it wouldn't start, hopefully it's the relay and all will be fine with some more swearing time

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Speedaddictedberk

Speedaddictedberk
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Silver member
Got it turning over, pump pumping. Plugs fouled

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Inge K.

Inge K.
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VIP
85 K100 Fuel pump intermittent cutout 112350


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

Speedaddictedberk

Speedaddictedberk
Silver member
Silver member
Got the plugs out and cleaned, would only run on two.
Wiggled various cables and it ran well for a few secs, so wiggled them again with no effect.
Tried one last start up for the night and it's working perfectly. I have no idea what's changed but it seems happy enough.
I'll try to give it a good run to see if it's actually fixed or acting nice so it catches me out...

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Inge K.

Inge K.
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VIP
As it was firing at only two cylinders...I would guess it's ignition related....
as one coil feeds two cylinders.


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

92KK 84WW Olaf

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
Which two cylinders were firing or not firing. One coil serves no 1 and 4, the other fires 2 and 3. It is possible you have a bad connection at the coils so check these. Before going to ECU swap the coils to see if the same cylinders fire. If the problem tranfers to the other two cylinders then it looks like a coil problem. If it stays in the same 2 cylinders then you need to look elsewhere as in ECU etc


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 37,190 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 42,640 miles.

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

Speedaddictedberk

Speedaddictedberk
Silver member
Silver member
The weird thing is that it was running fine apart from occasional random stops caused by the fuel pump. I haven't changed anything apart from cleaning up the relay.
Hopefully it's now decided to work but time will tell!

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Speedaddictedberk

Speedaddictedberk
Silver member
Silver member
Ok I think it's the plug on the ecu, it stopped again today but a quick wiggle of the plug fixed the issue.
I'll pull the ECu ANC clean all the contacts, then crimp them tighter.
Super dooper drunk just now as it's after 2am and I started drinking at 3pm. Shots bad, pints worse. May be some time before bike is sorted (certainly not this morning!)

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Inge K.

Inge K.
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@Speedaddictedberk wrote:Ok I think it's the plug on the ecu, it stopped again today but a quick wiggle of the plug fixed the issue.

It should be a small metal tab/lip/tongue on the ECU which locks the connector.
You should hear a click when the connector is all the way home.

But sometimes this tab/lip/tongue is missing.....when to heavy tools have been used to open it.



85 K100 Fuel pump intermittent cutout L-jet10


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

Speedaddictedberk

Speedaddictedberk
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Silver member
Man I'm tired.
Yeah it's got the taxable but it's not what you'd call tight so the plug is tie wrapped to the ecu.
Think it may just be wear on the pins/sockets. I'll clean em up, and tighten the sockets slightly.

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Speedaddictedberk

Speedaddictedberk
Silver member
Silver member
Ok cleaned up the ECU and it seems happier. I've tie wrapped the plug into the unit too.

Next odd one, connected rear aftermarket indicators with 23w bulbs in them and it blows the firmest straight away.
Jammed relay?

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Speedaddictedberk

Speedaddictedberk
Silver member
Silver member
Actually think it's earthing through the stem of the new indicators, looks like they're usually bolted through plastic but I have them attached to the plate for the cafe seat.

I'll try again tomorrow once I have more fuses

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Speedaddictedberk

Speedaddictedberk
Silver member
Silver member
Ok I now have a working bike!
Relay and ecu have fixed the running problems, and insulating the indicators has fixed the fuse blowing problem.
Thanks for the help

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