BMW K bikes (Bricks)

You are not connected. Please login or register

View previous topic View next topic Go down  Message [Page 1 of 1]


1Back to top Go down   Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Empty Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches on Sat Jul 11, 2015 4:35 pm

Dai

Dai
Life time member
Life time member
I've muttered about writing this up for the last couple of months, so it's about time I did it. It's mainly aimed at the cafe-racer crowd who might want to change the master cylinder to improve the braking or so they can change the brake calipers too. In my case I've had lifelong restricted movement in both wrists and both thumbs and I was finding the BMW paddles downright painful to operate at times. There are two things you need to know before considering this:

1. You will lose the self-cancelling indicators
2. You may or may not lose the hazard indicators. This depends on whether you have the switch fitted to the crashpad and also whether the replacement switches are European (with headlight on/off) or elsewhere (headlight always on). From 2003 onwards all European bikes are also headlights always on.
3. If you have a naked K or an RS (i.e. narrow bars) your choice is severely restricted to late-Seventies to mid-Eighties Honda handlebar switches with the built-in clutch bracket because there isn't the room to mount a separate clutch and switch. The 'bars are around 2" (50mm) too narrow and a separate clutch bracket causes the cable adjuster to foul the instrument housing. The only exception to this is if you're mounting an aftermarket speedo which will allow more room for the clutch cable to sweep round.

There is a second consideration with the narrow bars too; you will need to figure out some way of mounting a new choke mechanism. On LFB I sorted this by drilling a hole below the indicator switch contacts and mounting the choke mechanism from a Yamaha FZ750 underneath. LFB's lefthand switch is off a mid-Eighties CB250:

Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Sw0
Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Sw1

Choke mechanism:

Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Sw2

The righthand switch is off a very early CB750 - note the headlight on/off direction is reversed compared to today's switches. The master cylinder is from a Suzuki 1200 Bandit and the reservoir is a Chinese thing.

Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Sw3
Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Sw4

Last warning for the narrow bars: when hunting for righthand Honda switches you do NOT want one from a CDI-equipped bike. That type has the kill switch MAKE to kill the ignition system but the BMW requires a BREAK to do the same job. You can always ride around with the killswitch pointing to off...

When hunting for switches you want the following:

Righthand (Europe) - start, kill and headlight off/pilot/on
Righthand (elsewhere) - start and kill (may have hazards in place of the headlight on/off).
Lefthand - horn, flash (passing), high/dip and indicators.

You will also need a wiring diagram from the donor bike(s). You only need this to identify which colour wire does which job and nothing more. The first diagram below is the standard BMW wiring loom - it only shows the areas we're interested in. Connector 1 is the connector block on the left side of the frame that goes to the left handlebar switch. Connector 2 is the connector block on the right side of the frame that goes to the right handlebar switch. How you deal with cutting and replacing wires through these blocks is entirely up to you. My prefence would be to cut them off completely and fit new Molex connectors.

Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Brick_normal

The second diagram uses Suzuki GSXR 1300 Hayabusa switches for both left and right sides and has no headlight on/off switch.

Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Suzuki_nh

Whatever switches you use, there are going to be some standard changes in the original BMW loom. In the no headlight switch situation you need to connect the BMW green/blue wire (headlight power feed) across the BMW slate/blue wire (pilot and tail) and the BMW yellow/white wire (headlight feed). If the no headlight switchblock has a hazard switch then you will need to crossfeed to the indicator switch on the new lefthand switchblock as shown above.

Note that not all of the original BMW wires are re-used.

For all replacement switches, locate the BMW flasher relay and unbolt it. Disconnect the relay from the relay block and see how much you can sell it for on Ebay. Under the relay block itself cut and insulate the following two wires:

blue/black
blue/red

This looks counter-intuitive because these are the indicator feeds but the way they run through the loom (one to the left handlebar and one to the right handlebar) means that they are not re-usable from this part of the loom. You will need to run new wires. Also, cut but don't insulate the following two wires:

green/brown
brown

You're going to re-use both of them.

This isolates the original indicator circuit. Now, screw the relay block back in. Depending on your preference for indicators, the replacement indicator relay can be the normal tungsten filament three-pin type or an LED three-pin type. Don't try to use a two-pin bi-metallic type because I'm not sure it will work. On the replacement indicator relay connect the green/brown wire to pin 49 and the brown wire to pin 31. Pin 49a goes to the indicator switch feed on the leftside switchblock.

The simplest place to pick up the indicator feeds is at the rear indicators and then run them up the bike.

The third diagram uses a Suzuki GSXR 1300 Hayabusa switch for the left side, an early Suzuki GSF 600 Bandit switch for the right side and has a headlight on/off switch. Note here that the GSF pilot and headlight circuits have different feeds (pilot is blue/orange, headlight is orange/red), so they both need to go to the BMW light feed (green/blue)

Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Suzuki_wh

Lastly, just to show I'm not obsessed with Suzukis, the same mod done with the Honda switches that I'm using. Note that here, the Honda black/white and black wires feed to the BMW green/blue light feed. However, there is also a second Honda black wire that provides power to the pilot/headlight switch. I hope you possess a multimeter...

Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Honda_wh


__________________________________________________
'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

2Back to top Go down   Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Empty Inspired to switch on Tue Sep 01, 2015 8:30 pm

redrockmania

redrockmania
Silver member
Silver member
Thanks Dai for your superb post. I am commencing parts acquisition for switching the switches. Why? Initial inspiration came after looking into a front brake upgrade. Pre discovering the K100 forum I made a laborious and frustrating attempt. Decided to fit Brembo 4 pot gold callipers to my 83 K100. Designed and machined my own Aluminium billet calliper brackets for the standard K100 discs. Refitted my standard K100 master cylinder and bleeding and bleeding and bleeding the brakes discovered to my horror that I needed a larger diameter master cylinder. Purchased a new 15mm Brembo (not for BMW) master cylinder and discovered that the K100 switchgear would not fit (the ergonomics are impossible). Looked at alternative "conventional" switchgear and decided against further work on the basis that a major rewiring would be required to make it work. Refitted the standard brakes and switchgear.
Dai's post has provided the roadmap for brake/switchgear upgrade. Am going the Suzuki route. So far have purchased gen. 1 Suzuki Hayabusa L and R switchgear. Also have purchased a Suzuki 1200 Bandit master cylinder with 15-16mm diameter bore. This means that after following Dai's switchgear recipe I can refit the 4 pot gold Brembo's.
Further down the track will do a complete front end upgrade to my 86 K100RS using Dai's post :- 1997 Suzuki GSXR1100 front end, 6 pot Tokiko callipers, aforementioned Brembo 15mm master cylinder and modern Triumph switchgear. This is sometime away but have assembled the parts.
Thank you Captain Hollister for your wise counsel in pointing me to Dai's post.



Last edited by redrockmania on Tue Sep 01, 2015 8:34 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Clarification and spelling correction)

    

3Back to top Go down   Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Empty Re: Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches on Tue Sep 01, 2015 9:03 pm

RicK G

RicK G
VIP
VIP
The R100 Mystic (last of the airhead boxers) has a 15mm master cylinder and the switch gear will fit.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

4Back to top Go down   Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Empty Re: Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches on Wed Sep 02, 2015 6:05 am

Dai

Dai
Life time member
Life time member
What Rick says, but they're a bit rare s/h. Oddly, I have also fitted a pair of Brembo four-pot 34/40 Goldlines, hence the Bandit master cylinder.


__________________________________________________
'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

5Back to top Go down   Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Empty R100R Mystik Master Cylinder on Wed Sep 02, 2015 6:31 pm

redrockmania

redrockmania
Silver member
Silver member
Thanks Dai and RickG. For me the brake upgrade has driven by my choice of larger diameter master cylinder. The 15mm R100R Mystik master cylinder is comparatively hard to find. My concern is that used Mystik MC's are expensive and often look so battered that I had to consider that a full MC overhaul kit (not cheap) would be necessary. Incidently last night had a Google trawl and note that Motoworks in the UK have new Mystik MC's for UK Pounds 135.57 excluding VAT (their part reference #BRA14022 - BMW #: 32722314022).
The Mystik MC upgrade and BMW 4 pot callipers is the way to go if you want braking improvement with minimal disturbance of the stock BMW look and the easiest/fastest upgrade.
In the end it comes down to personal choice based on cost, performance, how much you enjoy the challenge inherent in doing an upgrade and what you are able to find in terms of parts and advice.

    

6Back to top Go down   Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Empty Re: Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches on Sun Feb 07, 2016 10:56 pm

KJustin

KJustin
Silver member
Silver member
Dai, thanks for this great write-up. I've completed the left side work, including putting in the relay, and that went well. I've encountered a problem on the right side switch and hope you can help. I'm working on a US model K100RT 1985. 

I bought a starter/kill switch with 4 wires (2 for starter, 2 for kill). Since I have a US model, I assumed that this means I need to connect the 3 wires as shown in your Suzuki diagram above. I did that and hooked up  the switch (as you'll see below, I'm worried this was wrong). Turned on the ignition and had no headlight, taillight or speedo backlight and the starter didn't work. I have an aftermarket Acewell speedo. Turned it off, unhooked my work on the right switch, and hooked up the OEM switch. Turned on ignition and still no headlight, or taillight or speedo backlight. But the starter button did work with the OEM switch. I still had a brake light though when I depressed the brakes. 

I fear multiple problems. Obviously I don't have the starter and kill hooked up properly. I'm worried I damaged something in the lighting system. All the fuses look good. Any ideas of what went wrong?  It's possible that I knocked loose the power feed to the lights. I'll investigate that. But in the mean time, would greatly appreciate any ideas you might offer. Thanks!


__________________________________________________
1985 K100 Cafe Racer (formerly an RT), VIN 0051736
    

7Back to top Go down   Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Empty Re: Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches on Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:25 pm

KJustin

KJustin
Silver member
Silver member
Update: I got the starter working with the new aftermarket switch. The lights are still non-functional though. Would really appreciate ideas on the lights. TIA.


__________________________________________________
1985 K100 Cafe Racer (formerly an RT), VIN 0051736
    

8Back to top Go down   Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Empty Re: Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches on Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:43 pm

robmack

robmack
Life time member
Life time member
Which aftermarket Japanese motorbike switch did you select for the left and right sides?
Do you pull Acewell illumination off the Grey/Blue wire on Pin 24 of the OEM instrument cluster?
Did you jump Grey/Blue (Pin 7) to White/Yellow (Pin 4) and Green/Blue (Pin 3) at the harness side of the right hand connector or was it already there from the factory?
Do you use the clutch switch to enable the starter?
Do you have a schematic of how you have wired your aftermarket switch?


__________________________________________________
Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

9Back to top Go down   Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Empty Re: Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches on Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:45 am

KJustin

KJustin
Silver member
Silver member
Rob, I'm glad you replied. Have really appreciated your help in the past. 

The aftermarket switches I got from Dime City Cycles. They are K&S Technologies Inc brand. When I put only the left switch in, before messing with the right, I had properly functioning head and tail lights. 

I do pull the illumination for the Acewell off the grey/blue wire. I didn't check, but I assume you are right that that is pin 24. 

On the right hand switch the three pins you mentioned were not jumpered from the factory. I assumed, but don't actually know, that they are jumpered in the switch on the bar. Maybe that is where I made the mistake? I did make my own jumper to tie all 3 together. Now I get no head or tail lights whether I have my jumper installed or not. 

Embarrassingly, I didn't diagram how I hooked up the headlight and taillight when I did the work some months ago, and now I don't recall. I've wrapped most of that work in tape. And before that I soldered and shrink wrapped all connections. It's always possible I've got a bad connection somewhere in there, but I'll have to cut into everything to investigate. Really hoping to avoid that. 

I'm using v2 of your neutral start enable board. The starter cranks whether I hold the clutch in or not. 

Any ideas based on this info?



Last edited by KJustin on Mon Feb 08, 2016 4:34 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added links and additional info)


__________________________________________________
1985 K100 Cafe Racer (formerly an RT), VIN 0051736
    

10Back to top Go down   Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Empty Re: Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches on Mon Feb 08, 2016 7:15 pm

robmack

robmack
Life time member
Life time member
@KJustin wrote:On the right hand switch the three pins you mentioned were not jumpered from the factory. I assumed, but don't actually know, that they are jumpered in the switch on the bar. Maybe that is where I made the mistake? I did make my own jumper to tie all 3 together. Now I get no head or tail lights whether I have my jumper installed or not. 
If your right hand control looks like this:
Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches S-l225
Then the jumpers will not be in place on the harness side of the 9-pin connector.

If your right hand control looks like this:
Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches $_1
Then those jumpers could already be in place on the OEM harness (at least on Canadian models they are required by law}. You'll have to visually check for them. It's important that they are on the harness side, not the switch side.

Because you've hooked up the Acewell dial illumination to the Grey/Blue wire, it means that the illumination should come on with the ignition switch in the start position (not park position). Power comes from those jumpered pins above through Fuse 7.


Embarrassingly, I didn't diagram how I hooked up the headlight and taillight when I did the work some months ago, and now I don't recall. I've wrapped most of that work in tape. And before that I soldered and shrink wrapped all connections. It's always possible I've got a bad connection somewhere in there, but I'll have to cut into everything to investigate. Really hoping to avoid that. 
Ooo, that's too bad. That will make it a crap shoot whether you've miswired

I'm using v2 of your neutral start enable board. The starter cranks whether I hold the clutch in or not. 

Any ideas based on this info?
You might have taken out the BMU. That unit controls the rear marker light which you said doesn't work. You'll have to check that power is being supplied to that BMU. The power to the BMU travels through Fuse 1 via the Kill switch.


__________________________________________________
Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

11Back to top Go down   Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Empty Re: Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches on Mon Feb 08, 2016 8:24 pm

KJustin

KJustin
Silver member
Silver member
Rob, thanks.  That gives me some ideas about where to test and see where I have power/current to hopefully figure out where the problem is.  If that does not make it readily apparent where the problem is, I'll cut everyting apart and diagram things and approach the probem that way.  By the way, I do have a BMU still; I've never touched it.  Given that my newly installed starter and kill switch are working, does that indicate that my problem is not a power failure to/through the BMU? 

I have the right hand switch shown in your lower photo, i.e., the one that does not have a switch to turn off the headlights.  I'm a bit confused about the jumpering in the harness to the right hand switch.  I'll need to look again, but I don't think my harness has any jumpers on it.  I created my own jumpers by attaching bullet pins to a wire and plugging them in to the harness. 

You say that "it's important they are on the harness side."  I'm not sure that my homemade bullet jumpers meet that requirement. In other words, my homemade jumpers are arguably not on the harness side, rather they plug in the same way that the plug from the switch plugs in.  Is there a chance that this is my problem?  Seems strange to me that it would matter that much, but as I've proved time and again, I'm weak on electronics.

Thanks so much for taking the time to help me through this!


__________________________________________________
1985 K100 Cafe Racer (formerly an RT), VIN 0051736
    

12Back to top Go down   Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Empty Re: Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches on Mon Feb 08, 2016 8:38 pm

robmack

robmack
Life time member
Life time member
I mention that it is important they are on the harness side of the plug because power still needs to be delivered from Grey/Blue (Pin 7) to White/Yellow (Pin 4) and Green/Blue (Pin 3) even if the right hand control gets unplugged.  On Canadian models, the jumpers are evident as small wires bridging the back of the connector.  Canadian law mandates that lights are on all the time, hence the jumpers.

You certainly have the BMU but I can't say that the electronics inside the box are functioning any longer.  It's conjecture on my part because the symptoms you describe lead me along that path.  I don't see any source of power for the rear running lights except that what is delivered by the BMU. If you feel brave, you may want to bypass the BMU, as outlined in Duck's technical article .


__________________________________________________
Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

13Back to top Go down   Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Empty Re: Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches on Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:14 am

KJustin

KJustin
Silver member
Silver member
Ok, finally got home to work on my bike. There were no factory jumpers. I discovered that there was no power at the grey/blue pin 7 on the right hand harness. I also put together that the wire feeding the acewell back light is the same grey/blue. I also happened to have the ignition out, because I'm relocating it. And I noticed there's a grey/blue wire there. Then I thought, maybe they are all related.

When I turned on the ignition I found that the grey/blue wire there had no power. That seemed wrong. Looking at the Clymer manual wiring diagram that look like it should be live when on (but not in parking light mode). So, on a lark I ran a wire from one of the live pins from the ignition and, presto, I had all the lights and speedo working.

Also, I didn't cut into my taped up other wiring from when I rewired my aftermarket tail light. However all this jogged my memory that I wired in to switched power that was handy at the time. I bet if I cut into things I'd find that I tied into that same grey/blue wire so as to be on the same circuit as the headlight and speedo power.

So, this leads to a few questions: 1 do I have a bad ignition because the grey/blue pin is not working (assuming that that pin should be live when the ignition is on)? 2. If that's malfunctioning can it be fixed by taking apart the ignition? 3. Would there be any problems with just feeding the wire that illuminates the head, tail, and speedo lights from one of the other switched pins/wires from the ignition. I'm thinking the green wire would be best, but I'm not sure.

Thoughts?




__________________________________________________
1985 K100 Cafe Racer (formerly an RT), VIN 0051736
    

14Back to top Go down   Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Empty Re: Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches on Fri Feb 12, 2016 2:48 am

KJustin

KJustin
Silver member
Silver member
Ok, so I finally had a chance to pull the BMU and test around it, per Rob's (always excellent) advice. I wasn't getting power from pin15 (green/black) to pin 58E (grey/white). I jumpered across them and got full power to headlight, taillight and speedo. I have to admit that I don't really understand how this works, so it makes me nervous. I guess that makes my question whether this is a good solution that won't cause some other problem.

Since I already had the BMU out, I thought I'd just remove It entirely. But when I followed the instructions in Ducks article, I didn't get any brake light function. I'm not sure what to make of this.

I think what I'm going to do , unless someone tells me otherwise,is jumper 15 and 58E and the put the BMU back in. All comments welcome.


__________________________________________________
1985 K100 Cafe Racer (formerly an RT), VIN 0051736
    

15Back to top Go down   Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Empty Re: Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches on Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:51 am

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
My next step would be to use a voltmeter to make sure that the front and rear brake switches are working.

Jumping them to the brake light wire should work every time.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

16Back to top Go down   Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Empty Re: Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches on Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:01 am

KJustin

KJustin
Silver member
Silver member
Sorry, I think I must have been unclear, the brake lights work correctly when the brake levers are depressed (assuming I have the BMU in, but not when I take it out and jump the wires). I'll test anyway over the weekend and see what I find. Anything else I should test?


__________________________________________________
1985 K100 Cafe Racer (formerly an RT), VIN 0051736
    

17Back to top Go down   Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Empty Re: Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches on Fri Feb 12, 2016 5:33 pm

robmack

robmack
Life time member
Life time member
@KJustin wrote:Ok, finally got home to work on my bike. There were no factory jumpers.  I discovered that there was no power at the grey/blue pin 7 on the right hand harness. I also put together that the wire feeding the acewell back light is the same grey/blue. I also happened to have the ignition out, because I'm relocating it. And I noticed there's a grey/blue wire there. Then I thought, maybe they are all related.
Yes they are all related.  They are all connected together, ultimately.

@KJustin wrote:When I turned on the ignition I found that the grey/blue wire there had no power. That seemed wrong.  Looking at the Clymer manual wiring diagram that look like it should be live when on (but not in parking light mode). So, on a lark I ran a wire from one of the live pins from the ignition and, presto, I had all the lights and speedo working.
Don't trust the Clymer or Haynes schematics.  They have known errors, especially in the depiction of the ignition switch.  Trust Bert's interactive electrical diagrams or download the colour drawings of the '83-'85 K100 Basic from my Google Drive .  

In any case, the grey/blue only has power with the ignition turned to "ON" (second position).  It has no power when the ignition is turned to "P" (first position).

@KJustin wrote:So, this leads to a few questions:  1 do I have a bad ignition because the grey/blue pin is not working (assuming that that pin should be live when the ignition is on)?
If you turned the switch to "ON" (second position) and got no power on grey/blue, you have reason to suspect your ignition switch.

@KJustin wrote:2. If that's malfunctioning can it be fixed by taking apart the ignition?  
Yes.  There are plenty of posts describing the disassembly process.



Last edited by robmack on Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:09 pm; edited 1 time in total


__________________________________________________
Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

18Back to top Go down   Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Empty Re: Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches on Fri Feb 12, 2016 5:48 pm

robmack

robmack
Life time member
Life time member
@KJustin wrote:Ok, so I finally had a chance to pull the BMU and test around it, per Rob's (always excellent) advice. I wasn't getting power from pin15 (green/black) to pin 58E (grey/white). I jumpered across them and got full power to headlight, taillight and speedo. I have to admit that I don't really understand how this works, so it makes me nervous. I guess that makes my question whether this is a good solution that won't cause some other problem.  
That's not a really good idea.  You've jumpered two power sources together.  It doesn't create bangs and flames like jumpering a power source to a ground, but you've short circuited some fuse outputs.

@KJustin wrote:
Since I already had the BMU out, I thought I'd just remove It entirely. But when I followed the instructions in Ducks article, I didn't get any brake light function.  I'm not sure what to make of this.
You do realize that making Duck's modifications means opening the BMU, ripping out its guts like a Thanksgiving turkey, throwing those away and soldering the wires to the base of the BMU with the pins.  I take it you didn't really do that bit.

@KJustin wrote:I think what I'm going to do , unless someone tells me otherwise,is jumper 15 and 58E and the put the BMU back in.   All comments welcome.
If you examine the schematic I linked to above, you'll notice that the power to drive the brake light comes in on Pins E1 and E2, and that the brake light bulb is on Pin 58A.  Jumper these three wires together on the BMU socket (put the BMU away in a safe place).  Make the jumpers using 1/4" male spade connectors.

You should also notice that the running light input is the power lead on Pin 58E, and the running light bulb connects to Pin 54A.  Join these two pins together with another jumper (your BMU is still safely stowed somewhere else right?).


__________________________________________________
Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

19Back to top Go down   Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Empty Re: Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches on Fri Feb 12, 2016 7:11 pm

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
You do realize that making Duck's modifications means opening the BMU, ripping out its guts like a Thanksgiving turkey, throwing those away and soldering the wires to the base of the BMU with the pins.  I take it you didn't really do that bit.

You don't necessarily have to do it that way. For a couple of my bikes I've made "fake" BMUs by eviscerating the old one while on others I just put jumper wires across the BMU socket. Six of one, half dozen of the other.

I have a whole box of old BMUs so tearing one apart and ripping its guts out is of absolutely no concern to me, especially since I never plan to run anything but LED bulbs.



Last edited by duck on Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:11 pm; edited 1 time in total


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

20Back to top Go down   Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Empty Re: Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches on Fri Feb 12, 2016 7:30 pm

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
That's not a really good idea.  You've jumpered two power sources together.  It doesn't create bangs and flames like jumpering a power source to a ground, but you've short circuited some fuse outputs.

Not sure what your point is here but since both the front and rear brake switches are powered by Fuse #1 jumping them together to the brake light wire does not "cross up" any circuitry or create short circuits across different fuses.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

21Back to top Go down   Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Empty Re: Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches on Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:12 pm

robmack

robmack
Life time member
Life time member
You're right, I analyzed the circuitry incorrectly.  Green/black on Pin 15 is a power input to the BMU.  Grey/white on Pin 58E is the parking light circuit, and might get its power from the green/black through circuitry on the relay (don't know yet I can't see any other source of power for the circuitry on Fuse #2).  So jumpering them is not problematic.


__________________________________________________
Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

22Back to top Go down   Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Empty Re: Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches on Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:19 pm

KJustin

KJustin
Silver member
Silver member
^ That's what I was guessing....based on some other reading here and on motobrick.  But it was really only a guess.  Duck, can you confirm?

If so, then at least I'm not doing anything harmful (though I still plan to investigate why I apparently don't have proper readings at the ignition switch pins and elsewhere).


__________________________________________________
1985 K100 Cafe Racer (formerly an RT), VIN 0051736
    

23Back to top Go down   Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Empty Re: Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches on Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:29 pm

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
@KJustin wrote:^ That's what I was guessing....based on some other reading here and on motobrick.  But it was really only a guess.  Duck, can you confirm?

If so, then at least I'm not doing anything harmful (though I still plan to investigate why I apparently don't have proper readings at the ignition switch pins and elsewhere).

Confirm what?

That both brake light switches are powered by Fuse #1?  Yes, I am 100% certain of that fact.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

24Back to top Go down   Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Empty Re: Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches on Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:46 pm

KJustin

KJustin
Silver member
Silver member
Sorry, I was definately not clear.  Can you confirm that green/black pin 15 powers grey/white pin 58E through the BMU.  If that is true, then I definately have a bad BMU (at least as to that connection).  TIA.


__________________________________________________
1985 K100 Cafe Racer (formerly an RT), VIN 0051736
    

25Back to top Go down   Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Empty Re: Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches on Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:46 pm

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
The gray/white wire from Fuse #2 to 58E provides tail light power through the BMU to the gray/black output wire to the tail light.

The green/black from Fuse #1 to Pin 15 provides power to the BMU for its circuitry.

FYI: For Bosch circuits, Pin 15 is usually 12V+ and Pin 31 is the ground.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

26Back to top Go down   Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Empty Re: Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches on Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:05 pm

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
Also make sure that your kill switch is on when testing this stuff as it cuts power to Fuse #1.

(Remember that if you hit the kill switch while riding it will cut power to your brake light switches and vehicles behind you may not be aware that you are braking. Not a great design IMO but it is what it is.)


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

27Back to top Go down   Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Empty Re: Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches on Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:49 pm

KJustin

KJustin
Silver member
Silver member
I undid my BMU jumper and retested. And read the posts a bit closer. I have power at pin 58E when I have the parking light on (and my tail light is lit up). But when i turned the ignition to 'on', no power at 58E and no tail light. Should there be power at 58E when the ignition is on?

I'm leaning towards a bad ignition switch. I get no power on either the grey or grey/blue when the ignition is on. Seems like I should have power at both when the ignition is on. Is that right?


__________________________________________________
1985 K100 Cafe Racer (formerly an RT), VIN 0051736
    

28Back to top Go down   Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Empty Re: Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches on Sat Feb 13, 2016 12:00 am

robmack

robmack
Life time member
Life time member
You should have power on grey/white both in the "P" position and in the "ON" position. In "P" position, power is supplied from the red lead (direct battery connection) through the ignition switch to the Grey lead, through Fuse #2 to the grey/white. In the "ON" position, power (I surmise) is provided to the grey/white wire from Pin 15 (green/black) on the BMU, as well as along the grey wire, through the ignition switch contacts to the grey/blue. I can't see how power can get to that circuit with the ignition switch in that position otherwise.


__________________________________________________
Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

29Back to top Go down   Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Empty Re: Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches on Sat Feb 13, 2016 12:08 am

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
Disconnect your ignition switch to test it. When it is the full on position you should have continuity between the red and green wires and continuity between the gray and gray/blue wires.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

30Back to top Go down   Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Empty Re: Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches on Sat Feb 13, 2016 12:11 am

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

31Back to top Go down   Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Empty Re: Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches on Sat Feb 13, 2016 4:00 am

KJustin

KJustin
Silver member
Silver member
Boy am I stumped. I have proper continuity, per ducks instructions. I also took the ignition apart and it was very clean inside. But I cleaned it with deoxit anyway.

In park position I get 12v only on the grey wire. In on position I get 12v only on the green wire. There is no circumstance where I get 12v on the grey/blue wire.

My fuses are good and I have 12v at fuses 1 and 2.

I have 12v at grey/white 58E at the BMU when in park, but not when switched to on

I'd like to figure this out if possible.

In the meantime, I've concocted another work around to get power to all lights and speedo by grabbing the green wire switched power at the right hand plug and feeding the grey/blue wire in that plug. It seems to work but I'd be interested in whether this is acceptable or a bad idea.


__________________________________________________
1985 K100 Cafe Racer (formerly an RT), VIN 0051736
    

32Back to top Go down   Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Empty Re: Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches on Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:04 pm

NayoAlex

NayoAlex
New member
New member
Dai 


Disculpe porque estoy seguro de que se me escapan algunos detalles.


Estoy siguiendo su esquema para el interruptor derecho de Honda.


Pero si el poder del botón de inicio seleccionado directamente del botón de matar.


¿Esto no elimina el sistema de seguridad de la luz neutral y el interruptor del embrague al tener siempre energía?


Supongo que no lo estoy interpretando bien.

Tampoco puedo encontrar el cable verde / azul de BMW que comentas.


Saludos

    

33Back to top Go down   Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Empty Re: Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches on Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:06 am

Dai

Dai
Life time member
Life time member
Google Translate:

Excuse me because I'm sure some details are missing. I am following your scheme for the right Honda switch. But if the power of the start button selected directly from the kill button, does this not eliminate the neutral light safety system and the clutch switch by always having power?

I guess I'm not interpreting it well. Nor can I find the green / blue BMW cable you comment.

// Answer:

The blue-green wire sometimes appears to be all-green because the colours fade. It goes to fuse 7. If I study the wiring diagram, I don't think that the modification at the handlebar affects the safety interlock switches. My motorcycle did not have a safety switch on the sidestand, so I cannot be absolutely sure. I removed the clutch switch, because I hated it, so I know that worked! The design of the BMW wiring diagram is not logical and is very different to all other manufacturers.

Google translate (it actually looks about right!):

El cable azul-verde a veces parece ser todo verde porque los colores se desvanecen. Va al fusible 7. Si estudio el diagrama de cableado, no creo que la modificación en el manillar afecte a los interruptores de enclavamiento de seguridad. Mi motocicleta no tenía un interruptor de seguridad en el caballete lateral, por lo que no puedo estar absolutamente seguro. Quité el interruptor del embrague porque lo odiaba, ¡así que sé que funcionó! El diseño del diagrama de cableado de BMW no es lógico y es muy diferente al de todos los demás fabricantes.


__________________________________________________
'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
Others...
'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
'03 Suzuki Blandit GSF600SK3 (NFS any more because wifey has claimed it)
    

34Back to top Go down   Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches Empty Re: Wiring in non-BMW handlebar switches on Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:06 am

NayoAlex

NayoAlex
New member
New member
The truth is that in Spain we are very limited to what we can do.
Only the detail that the killer goes backwards is not allowed, so I will have to solve it through a relay.

I also want to eliminate the BMU and the original turn signal relay as I go with LED. The shed relay is kept to avoid sticking the starter relay to the maximum

When I finally solve the entire installation BEP 3.0 included I will create a post in case someone solves any details.

Thank you for info

    

View previous topic View next topic Back to top  Message [Page 1 of 1]

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum