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1Back to top Go down    Clutch balance? on Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:42 pm

ricketyclik

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Hi all.

I've just completed an absorber gear / rear main seal / clutch plate replacement (a saga spanning a year) and started the bike OK (!) but there's a tapping sound coming from the front-right of the bell housing, about half way down. The bike is also vibrating more than I remember while on its centre stand.

I'm thinking it's the clutch out of balance. Before I pull the bike apart again can anyone confirm that that would be the case, or alternatively does anyone know of another cause for such a noise?

I did originally mark the clutch parts before taking them off, but the marks were lost in the clean-up and put together phase (I admit it, I forgot to keep them intact). I've just read an ingenious idea for balancing it, which I think I'll use. Any comments for or against?

Regards,
Richard (from sunny Canberra, Australia)
1987 K100RT

    

2Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:48 pm

Crazy Frog

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ricketyclik wrote:Hi all.

I've just read an ingenious idea for balancing it, which I think I'll use. Any comments for or against?

Regards,
Richard (from sunny Canberra, Australia)
1987 K100RT

A month ago I went to the same rebuilt. I tried the tennis ball but it didn't work for me.
The idea is great, but a tennis ball may not be the anwser.
I was thinking that a pool or snooker ball will do the job (hard surface, perfectly round and balanced)

CF


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1986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML sidecar.
    

3Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:11 am

ricketyclik

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Thanks CF.

What about the knocking noise? Do you think that may be from an unbalanced clutch, or is that too extreme and it's something else? It's an actual metal on metal knock.

    

4Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:39 am

Inge K.

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This could also be caused TB bypass out of sync.


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K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

5Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:52 am

ricketyclik

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Inge K. wrote:This could also be caused TB bypass out of sync.

Sorry, could you spell out what that means?

    

6Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:58 am

Inge K.

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Throttle body air bypass adjusting screws at out of syncronisation.

If not all the cylinders get the same amount of air at idle,
it would be out of balance and the results is uneven running and vibration,
and you would get this caracteristic knocking.

I don't say that this is the reason to your problem, but it could be.



Last edited by Inge K. on Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:08 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Adding info.)


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K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

7Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:03 am

ricketyclik

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How might I tell if that's the case? It really sounds like something metal on the right of the rear of the engine/front of the bell housing that's physically, regularly knocking.

    

8Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:18 am

Inge K.

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Try to open the throttle a tiny bit (use the choke lever), if you then got a more even running.....I would tried to sync the TB air bypass.

It should be done at operating temp, valves adjusted within spec, a good functioning ignition system...preferably new spark plugs, and a clean airfilter.


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Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

9Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:38 am

ricketyclik

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I don't think that's it, because I warmed the engine up, revved it out a bit, both in neutral and in 1st gear, and the knocking if anything got slightly worse.

    

10Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:53 am

Inge K.

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As earlier mentioned....it could be the reason, then that is ruled out.

My next guess would be the tension spring between the absorber gear and idler gear, but no idea to check that w/o a complete dismantling.......


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K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

11Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:04 am

ricketyclik

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I hope not. I got the whole output shaft as a single replacement part.

Inge, are you ruling out an unbalanced clutch assembly as a possible cause?

    

12Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:13 am

Inge K.

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ricketyclik wrote:Inge, are you ruling out an unbalanced clutch assembly as a possible cause?

No, I don't....this could also of course be a contributing factor.

I also seen that you have posted this issue on another forum,
did you see this on that forum?
Could be that you also is able to find back the factory marks?

Was the output shaft a used part, if so..did you check the spring
and the connecting pins?


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Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

13Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:23 am

ricketyclik

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Inge K. wrote:
ricketyclik wrote:Inge, are you ruling out an unbalanced clutch assembly as a possible cause?

No, I don't....this could also of course be a contributing factor.

I also seen that you have posted this issue on another forum,
did you see this on that forum?
Could be that you also is able to find back the factory marks?
I scoured them for the marks on reassembly and found what I thought were the marks, one yellow on the housing and white ones on the cover plates, all in quite different locations, and got them into a semblance of 120 degree orientation, although it was impossible to get that quite right. I'm thinking I could try rotating each of the cover plates a further 120 degrees in opposite directions.

The thing about that is if I understand correctly there is a suggestion on the thread you linked to that one could fire the bike up without the gearbox in place to check. I can't see how to do that as the starter motor is bolted onto the gearbox. Unless one reinstalls the gearbox each time?


Inge K. wrote:Was the output shaft a used part, if so..did you check the spring
and the connecting pins?
Only cursorily, but it all seemed to be in place. Yes, it was a used part. Have you seen the price of new ones?

    

14Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:38 am

Ghost who rides

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Alternator "monkey nuts " ?


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1986 K 75 C 2nd owner 187,000kms showing .
1987 K100RT Police repainted, rough and unloved.
    

15Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:57 am

ricketyclik

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Ghost who rides wrote:Alternator "monkey nuts " ?

The knocking sound sounds like it's a few inches lower than the alternator, and the monkey nuts looked fine on examination. Does the alternator make a knocking sound if they're shot?

    

16Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:36 pm

Inge K.

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ricketyclik wrote: I scoured them for the marks on reassembly and found what I thought were the marks, one yellow on the housing and white ones on the cover plates, all in quite different locations, and got them into a semblance of 120 degree orientation, although it was impossible to get that quite right. I'm thinking I could try rotating each of the cover plates a further 120 degrees in opposite directions.
You could try to rotate the different parts of the clutch, but since you tought that you
did find the factory marks..........?
Here is a example of the factory marks.......yellow and red dots.





ricketyclik wrote:
Inge K. wrote:Was the output shaft a used part, if so..did you check the spring
and the connecting pins?
Only cursorily, but it all seemed to be in place. Yes, it was a used part. Have you seen the price of new ones?

About the spring and related parts,....when these parts is in a good shape you need
to pretension the idler gear when mating the teeths to the ones one the crankshaft.
Was that needed?

Take a look at CF's resto thread at the portal, then you would see a example of a
worn tension spring.

I mostly now have the knocking sound in mind and not the vibrations, but I'll guess
that to much slack between the absorber/idler gear and crankshaft gear also could
produce some amount of vibrations.

BTW. Which model and year is your bike?


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Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

17Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:41 pm

robmack

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If the monkey nuts are shot, all sorts of sounds could be produced, including the one you hear. You might be able to eliminate the alternator monkey nuts as a potential source of your problem by removing the alternator and running the bike from the battery. If the knocking sound remains, the alternator is not the cause.


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1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
2011 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

18Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:25 pm

ricketyclik

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Inge K. wrote:You could try to rotate the different parts of the clutch, but since you tought that you
did find the factory marks..........?
Here is a example of the factory marks.......yellow and red dots.
Thanks for that! The yellow dot is familiar, but the markings on the pressure plates were more like the white smear in the pic.


Inge K. wrote:About the spring and related parts,....when these parts is in a good shape you need
to pretension the idler gear when mating the teeths to the ones one the crankshaft.
Was that needed?
Now you've got me worried. I basically just slotted the shaft up into place (the engine was in the frame). When you say "pretension", what exactly do you mean?


Inge K. wrote:Take a look at CF's resto thread at the portal, then you would see a example of a
worn tension spring.
Thanks.


Inge K. wrote:BTW. Which model and year is your bike?
1987 K100RT

    

19Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:25 pm

ricketyclik

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robmack wrote:If the monkey nuts are shot, all sorts of sounds could be produced, including the one you hear. You might be able to eliminate the alternator monkey nuts as a potential source of your problem by removing the alternator and running the bike from the battery. If the knocking sound remains, the alternator is not the cause.
Worth checking - I'll give it a shot.

    

20Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:58 pm

twincarb

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ricketyclik wrote:Does the alternator make a knocking sound if they're shot?

The noise that can be made when it all go's horribly wrong is knocking grunching blood curdling thumping... that can be heard over earplugs.... (That's only when the bolt joins in for good measure which if it had you would know about it by now!)

I thought my monkey nutz were ok when I last put them in. They were just a pain in the arse to get to go in.... When I put the new one's in they held firm in the alternator seat and just a minor alignment and they slid straight into place!


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BMW K100LT 1988 Matt Black Peugeot Electra Blue (ELX) Colour is now confirmed...
Yamaha Thundercat
Triumph Spitfire (not a bike but hell it's British chaps)
    

21Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:42 am

yankeeone


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read thru this baby,

http://www.ibmwr.org/ktech/output-shaft-noise.shtml

    

22Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:52 am

ricketyclik

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yankeeone wrote:read thru this baby,

http://www.ibmwr.org/ktech/output-shaft-noise.shtml

I have! That's why I had my clutch off in the first place! I've now got a shiny new second hand 12-rivet absorber gear Smile

    

23Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:04 am

yankeeone


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Ive done the output shaft switch twice, you really start to get paranoid with the bad noise, some thoughts, I had the bad alt. rubbers, made more vibration than noise, I thought I had the funky washer/spring on the starter gear wrong, didn't, vacuum leak can make some weird noise,really should check for leaks. biggest thing, take a step back, which you seem to be doing.

    

24Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:00 am

RicK G

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Before you go any futher pull the alternator off and make sure the monkey nuts are fitted correctly and the whole cush drive is assembled correctly. I know how easy it is to get it missaligned and get the nutz in the wrong place and it rattles like all the devils in hell are after it. Clean it all out and a small dab of superglue holds the nutz in place for reassembly.


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If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

25Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:54 am

Inge K.

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I think it's a good idea to check the monkey nuts as Rick and others have suggested.

With the new info that you got a 12 rivet absorber it's less likely that you got a worn
out tension spring or its locating pins, which I first did have in mind.
The 12 rivet absorber have a revised tension spring, locating pins and idler gear.

If you still got the noise after the monkey nuts have been checked,
have a look at this document which tho apply to the earlier versions absorber,
but the symptoms would be the same at a 12 rivet..........but as said much less
likely on a 12 rivet.

About the clutch markings......if your marking was more like the white one in the
picture, I would guess someone allready been inside earlier and make their own.
Maybe it should be in line.......?


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Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

26Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:08 am

ricketyclik

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OK, so I removed the gearbox, checked the bits of the clutch, and from the markings I can discern I think I've got it right (same way as I originally put them in). I decided to check out the alternator idea, so put the gearbox back on and the starter motor in and tried to start the bike. Now, the battery was a little flat, and I had forgotten to connect the ECU, but the starter motor turned over a bit, made a not-quite-properly-mated-to-its-gear noise, and then stopped.

I reconnected the ECU, charged the battery up a bit more and tried again, and got the fuel pump noise and the click from the starter motor relay (I want the click right?) and nothing else.

Also, the thick red lead from the positive terminal from the battery got a bit hot.

I took the starter motor relay out and gave it a few raps (there's a rattle coming from inside it) and tried again. Same thing.

Can someone refresh my memory (I did a cursory search but couldn't find the answer) - the relay should click once when the starter button is pushed, right?

Any ideas what gives?

    

27Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:26 am

RicK G

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Hi Rick
Make sure the battery is fully charged, a partly charged battery will cause all sorts of headaches.
The starter relay should click when you press the starter button. Remove the lead from the starter and press the starter button this way you will hear the relay operate without the starter engaging and trying to start the engine.
You most likely have melted a contact on the relay and the rattle is the bits floating around inside the relay and may need a new relay.
Once you establish that the relay is working reconnect the starter and with the battery fully charged try pressing the starter button and see if the engine turns over and starts. If it starts well and good.
I don't believe you have a out of balance clutch but that have put the alternator in incorectly and the metal vanes on the drive are touching and not seperated by the monkey nutz. Remove the alternator and start the bike ( you wont hurt it) and see if the noise is there or not. If it is still there I am wrong (happens often) but if not there then clean the nutz and alloy housing very clean and super glue the nutz into place giving as much space between them as possible, let the glue set and replace the alternator taking care to line up the vanes with the space between the nutz ( there is a raised line on the outside of the driven part the nutz are in to indicate the space) and bolt it up tight then start it again there should not be any noise or vibration.


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If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

28Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:31 am

ricketyclik

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But Rick, if the relay is clicking (once) doesn't that indicate it's working?

    

29Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:37 am

RicK G

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ricketyclik wrote:But Rick, if the relay is clicking (once) doesn't that indicate it's working?
Yes but if the battery was getting flat it causes the contacts to melt together because the starter only turns slowly and draws more current than the relay can handle. Sometimes the contacts melt and break away from the spring they are mounted on and will rattle around inside. You can pull the cover off the relay by getting a small screwdriver into the crack between the cap and base and lever the case apart, it just clips back together.


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If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

30Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:29 pm

ricketyclik

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Thanks Rick, will check out the relay. I took on board what you said about the monkey nuts, that's what I was trying to check when I ran into starter problems. Thanks for the advice on that too!

Will get back once I've been into the relay.

    

31Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:04 am

ricketyclik

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Hmm. Had a look inside the relay and one of the contacts on the copper arm that swings down to make the contact had broken away, but I figured that if I can just bend the appropriate prong down toward the contact point it so that it contacts at the same time as the other contact that should work.

But I didn't get a chance to test my theory, as whenever I connect the battery the leads start to heat up and burn! The thick red wire from the positive, and the earth wire from the negative. The positive terminal on the battery fractured in from the heat!

What the hell?

Edit: Oh yes, I tried clamping the positive leads together and the negative, then hooking them up to my car's battery via jumper leads, and that seemed to do the same thing, although to a lesser extent. Lower amperage I assume.

    

32Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:17 am

RicK G

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It might work but just plan on a new relay in the near future.
Sounds like you may have starter motor problems, I suggest pulling it out and open it to see.
First though using jumper leads connect the +positive direct to the starter with the -negative grounded and see if the starter turns the engine. If not then I would say the starter needs TLC.


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If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

33Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:37 am

ricketyclik

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OK Rick, tried cranking the starter motor with jumper leads and nothing, so I'll look in to checking out the starter motor on the weekend, after some web research (also on the weekend).

Any tips for new players?

    

34Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:07 am

RicK G

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Check if the headlight comes on when the key is turned on and that will mean the circuit for the loadshed relay which is via the starter is OK if the lights dont come on it is possible that the brushes are cactus but from experience with starters of the Nippon Denso brand the armature is quite likely comming to bits or has already come to bits. It is possible the permanent magnets which are glued to the case have come adrift.


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If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

35Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:11 am

charlie99

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yep ....get the brush kit for the starter rickety ...the armature will clean up easy with a bit of work with some wet and dry ...and some electronic cleaner spray pack

the brush kit dont cost much from either the "bins " or "works " even the aussie prices arent too bad ......erm...cringe

but sounds like you may need to get another "stater relay " alby our mate got a goodun ...not bmw but does the job for far less ...new even

alby can also supply a good earth cable kit for verry good prices ....worth doing for sure


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36Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:14 am

ricketyclik

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Who's "alby"?

    

37Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Sat May 25, 2013 2:19 am

ricketyclik

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After a circular journey back to here again, the bike running with the alternator off still produces the metallic knocking.

Bugger it, I'm just going to put it back together and ride it like that and see what happens.

    

38Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Sat May 25, 2013 4:04 am

charlie99

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ricketyclik wrote:Who's "alby"?

albyalbatros member here from up my way ) ....you met him at araluen ....the white rs with trailer ?


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cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

39Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Sat May 25, 2013 4:07 am

RicK G

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ricketyclik wrote:After a circular journey back to here again, the bike running with the alternator off still produces the metallic knocking.

Bugger it, I'm just going to put it back together and ride it like that and see what happens.
Is it only when its cold Rick?


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If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

40Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Sat May 25, 2013 4:34 am

ricketyclik

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RicK G wrote:
ricketyclik wrote:After a circular journey back to here again, the bike running with the alternator off still produces the metallic knocking.

Bugger it, I'm just going to put it back together and ride it like that and see what happens.
Is it only when its cold Rick?

No, consistent all the time, quite loud.

I've just realised that after replacing the oil/water seals in the pump twice (!) there's oil seeping out of that area again!

Getting quite demoralised here :|

    

41Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Sat May 25, 2013 4:42 am

RicK G

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The only thing I can think of is that the rivits are getting realy bad. If you have throttle on or off does it do it or only at idle and no load situations.


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If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

42Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Sat May 25, 2013 4:46 am

ricketyclik

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The (12) rivets seemed as new when I put the shaft in.

    

43Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Sat May 25, 2013 4:49 am

RicK G

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Yeah sorry didnt read the rest of the thread to refresh the brain.
Did you check the drive cushion rubbers before you installed the shaft.


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If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

44Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Sat May 25, 2013 5:05 am

ricketyclik

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RicK G wrote:Yeah sorry didnt read the rest of the thread to refresh the brain.
Did you check the drive cushion rubbers before you installed the shaft.

Ah. I can't recall now, but I do have a vague memory that I'd need to get the old ones off the old absorber gear... And just checked and the old ones are on the old gear!

Oh dear... One more time!

    

45Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Sat May 25, 2013 9:57 am

RicK G

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You may be able to feel any slack if you can get a hand up to the cushion drive and have someone rock the back wheel.
Usual disclaimers apply about your fingers coming out like crinkle cut chips. Might save a lot of work


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If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

46Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Sat May 25, 2013 10:04 am

Inge K.

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The cushion rubbers also have different part #, ...6 vs. 12 rivet, if I remember correctly.......


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Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

47Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Sun May 26, 2013 1:41 am

ricketyclik

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I was in a bit of a funk yesterday, and when I was thinking about this last night in bed I'm pretty sure my actual thought about the rubbers in the absorber was "I wonder if I should sell the rubbers out of my old absorber gear", not "I'll have to move the rubbers".

So, back to reassembling the rest of the bike, trying to find where the oil's coming out from near the oil pump (I don't think it's from the weep hole) and riding it for a while to see what happens as a result of the tapping noise.

    

48Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Sun May 26, 2013 1:47 am

RicK G

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The best stuff for sealing the pump to block surface is either blue hylomar or three bond (drei bond).
When I was running the blown engine in the drag bike three bond was the only stuff that would hold the head gasket from blowing.


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49Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Sun Jun 02, 2013 8:46 am

ricketyclik

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Inge K. wrote:Throttle body air bypass adjusting screws at out of syncronisation.

If not all the cylinders get the same amount of air at idle,
it would be out of balance and the results is uneven running and vibration,
and you would get this caracteristic knocking.

I don't say that this is the reason to your problem, but it could be.
OK, so I rode the bike down to the service station today to put some fuel in it (first ride since reassembly), and unlike when in neutral when riding the knocking DOES seem to go away at about 2500 rpm.

The workshop manual basically says unless I have the right equipment for measuring pressure and expertise in the area don't do it (see below). Does anyone here say otherwise? If so, how do I go about it?

Also, when I throttle off there's a sort of grinding/rasping sound, which was always there but is significantly worse now. It might be my imagination but it feels/sounds like it's coming from the same area as the knocking. Could this also be TB adjustment?

My workshop manual instructs on throttle body assembly thus:

Throttle butterfly synchronisation

10 While this task can be carried out using a set of four dial-type vacuum gauges , unless these are of very good quality, with proper glycerine damping. they will not be sufficiently accurate. BMW specify the use of a mercury filled manometer (part number 13 0 700, with adaptors 13 0 702 and 13 0 703) which is much more accurate but more difficult to use.

11 Given these facts , and that synchronisation is likely to be so infrequently required, owners are strongly advised to take their machines to an authorised BMW dealer for this task to be carried out by an expert using the correct equipment. For those owners who have the skill and equipment to carry out such work themselves, proceed as described below.


12 First ensure that the air filter element is clean and/or renewed and that it is securely fastened, also that there are no leaks in the induction system . Check the setting of the choke and throttle cables and that the idle speed is correct (see above). Check that the ignition system (particularly the spark plugs) is in good condition, that the valve clearances are correct and that the exhaust system is sound, with no leaks or damage. If the engine has covered a very high mileage carry out a compression test (see Chapter 1) to ensure that it is in good condition. Note that the engine must be fully warmed up to normal operating temperature (minimum coolant temperature of 85'C/185'F)
before the synchronisation is checked. On K100 RS, K100 RT and K100 LT models, remove the fairing left-hand knee pad and lower side panel to reach the throttle assembly.

13 Note: This check merely corrects small differences, using the bypass screws, in intake vacuum caused by production tolerances and the different rates of wear of various components. It does not provide sufficient adjustment for synchronisation of the butterflies themselves, which should never be disturbed. These are set at the factory using special air flow-measuring equipment; if the butterfly sett ings are ever disturbed the complete assembly must be renewed.

14 If using equipment other than BMW's own, note that aT-piece adaptor will be required to enable the pressure regulator vacuum hose to remain connected while the test is conducted. The vacuum switch fitted to early 100 models (if still installed) can be disconnected during the test since it becomes effective only above idle speed. The vacuum take-off points are covered by small rubber caps. It was found that the hoses of a high-quality vacuum gauge set could be connected to these take-off points, provided that they were secured by small plastic clips. The pressure regulator was connected using the T-piece from a car windscreen washer system.and a short length of tubing.

15 With the engine fully warmed up and the gauges or balancing device securely connected with no air leaks, start the engine and allow it to idle. Where damping adjustment is provided, set it so that the reading flutter is just eliminated but so that it can respond instantly to any small changes in pressure. If aftermarket gauges are being used. it is useful to swap them between different throttle assemblies to ensure that all are producing exactly the same reading; if there is any variation this must be accounted for during adjustment. If anyone cylinder is significantly lower than the others, there may be an air leak in the induction system .

16 All gauges (or mercury columns) must show exactly the same reading with the engine at idle speed. If adjustment is necessary, it is made by rotating the bypass screw set in the appropriate throttle body. Do not disturb the screws and locknuts linking the various throttle butterflies. When all cylinders are giving exactly the same reading, stop the engine and disconnect the equipment.

    

50Back to top Go down    Re: Clutch balance? on Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:14 pm

ricketyclik

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I think this thread answers the question pretty well.

    

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