BMW K bikes (Bricks)

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Dai

Dai
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Life time member
Did I just say I hate this job, I really do? I've just spent a total of twelve hours over two days doing LFB (her on the left) and I feel like LFB has kicked me in the shoulders and back. Okay, so I cleaned a lot of sh!te off while I was going along but... I replaced the GPI switch while I was at it and guess what? Still NO GPI. It can (###@@@!!@@# grumble grumble) stay that way too until next year. Or until I replace the swingarm boot which has a small tear in it underneath (no leakage into the swingarm though). The only 'good' thing that's come out of this is that Optimal was still very visible on the gearbox input and output shafts, so I'm seriously considering making that a bi-annual job and keep the bevel drive an annual (i.e. less than one hour) job.


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec, 1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

brickrider

brickrider
Life time member
Life time member
You've been doing that tedious job every year in the past? I'm impressed.  I go 3 years and even longer (on the airhead, at least) before I lube those splines.  My hat's off to you for your conscientious care and feeding of your K-bike!
I suppose the K100RS should be serviced before next year's riding season, as it's been about 25K miles since I disassembled the rear half of the beast. 
Like you, I hate doing that. Mad


__________________________________________________
Brickrider
1985 K100RS; brick red, of course!
    

Dai

Dai
Life time member
Life time member
Yeah. That was the third one. Evil or Very Mad I do the Guzzis every tyre change but that's a different shaft setup and a bit easier to get to - just five nuts plus the one on top. You don't lube the clutch boss on a Guzzi, unless you want slippy clutch plates.


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec, 1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

drneo

drneo
New member
New member
Do you ride enough to justify a yearly service? Do you find that it helps that much? I seem to be able to go 3 years or 20k miles before it starts to shift poorly. I'm using guard dog high moly to grease...

http://trainwiththom.tumblr.com
    

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
I agree w/ neo. There's really no need to do spline lubes until the gear shifting problems show up. (And then you should do it ASAP.)


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

brickrider2

brickrider2
Life time member
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Wait until the shifting gets problematic? WooHoo! Maybe I can go another riding season then! My old K100RS changes gears ever so sweetly.  Very Happy

    

88

88
Life time member
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It gets easier the more you do it, Especially if you copper grease etc etc every time. What makes the job bigger is the cleanup required by us being able to ride all year round. The winter crud gets everywhere. 

The first time I did mine it had been knawing on my conscience for about a year. It didn't make as much shifting difference as I thought despite the splines being dry.


__________________________________________________
Spline lube - I hate this job, I really do Ir-log11 88....May contain nuts!Spline lube - I hate this job, I really do Ir-log11

"The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page." - St. Augustine from 1600 years ago & still true!

Bike: K100LT 1988. 0172363. AKA the Bullion Brick! Mods: k1100 screen and stands.
K1: 1990. 6374189. Custom Stealth Black paint.
    

Holister

Holister
Life time member
Life time member
88KE wrote:..... 
The first time I did mine it had been knawing on my conscience for about a year. It didn't make as much shifting difference as I thought despite the splines being dry.
Ditto.... took me about a year to get around to it. The GB input and output splines still had ok moly on them but the FD spline looked like the PO had used some sort of marine grease and it was dry and caked. Needless to say those splines were quite r@@ted. The shaft was ok tho.
Greasing the GB splines made no difference to the GB shifting at all. Always has been and still is difficult at low speed or standing still. I'd like to open the GB up this year and see whats happening inside and see if it can be sorted. Another option I'm seriouisly considering is to replace the whole drive train with a paralever.

I've just done the FD splines again. I think at every tyre change would be a good habit to get into.


__________________________________________________

1989 K100RT     VIN  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN  0451808
  Spline lube - I hate this job, I really do Austra12    Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
The transmission internals are the exactly the same on a paralever as they are on a monolever and shift just the same.

Adding moly and using 75-140 synthetic gear oil helps shifting on a K.

When the transmission input splines get dry on a K bike you will start to get false neutrals when downshifting from 4-3 and 3-2.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

88

88
Life time member
Life time member
Kaptain Holister wrote:
88KE wrote:..... 
The first time I did mine it had been knawing on my conscience for about a year. It didn't make as much shifting difference as I thought despite the splines being dry.
I'd like to open the GB up this year and see whats happening inside and see if it can be sorted. Another option I'm seriouisly considering is to replace the whole drive train with a paralever.

I've just done the FD splines again. I think at every tyre change would be a good habit to get into.
Every tyre change is the go!

On the GBox, if you can get it, try putting a tea spoon of Molybdenum Disulphide powder in the box and a tiny bit in the FD too. 

A friend of mine has a 500g pot of the stuff, which will last him years but he's got an aviation background and that's where it's most used in that from apparently ( I think he said it's used in Helicopter gearboxes). Anyway it made the box and FD incredibly smooth after about 200kms. My biggest challenge now is sourcing some for the RS!


__________________________________________________
Spline lube - I hate this job, I really do Ir-log11 88....May contain nuts!Spline lube - I hate this job, I really do Ir-log11

"The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page." - St. Augustine from 1600 years ago & still true!

Bike: K100LT 1988. 0172363. AKA the Bullion Brick! Mods: k1100 screen and stands.
K1: 1990. 6374189. Custom Stealth Black paint.
    

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS
1988 K100RS SE

Past:
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

Holister

Holister
Life time member
Life time member
Interesting... I thought of doing that somehow but didn't realise you could get moly powder. My Nulon synthetic engine oil has a moly content and I reckon it makes a difference there.
I wonder how tsp of Guard Dog 30% moly in the GB would go. Any thoughts?


__________________________________________________

1989 K100RT     VIN  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN  0451808
  Spline lube - I hate this job, I really do Austra12    Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
I use Guard Dog in my bikes. Works fine.

About 3.6 fl oz in the trans, about 1.1 fl oz in the final drive.

It does take a few hundred miles to work its way in to the point where you notice it when shifting but it does make a difference.

The side benefit is that moly also reduces wear.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
Wikipedia mentions that molybdenum disulfide is used in jet engine lubricating oils because it continues to work in the event the oil carrier is lost.  I wonder how long it will last like that.

I know the stuff is pretty slippery because I used a tiny bit of moly assembly paste when I put the cylinder head together on my RS and after about 20 minutes of run time the damn sprag stopped working.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS
1988 K100RS SE

Past:
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

15Back to top Go down   Spline lube - I hate this job, I really do Empty Moly Prices on Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:27 pm

brickrider2

brickrider2
Life time member
Life time member
Guard Dog is quite expensive, if I recall correctly.  Other labels vary.  I've purchased CV boot kits for my truck from the aftermarket that include a generous amount of moly grease with which repack the CV boots.  It's odd that those kits are so reasonably priced compared to buying moly lubes for other purposes.  Could a person put a dollop of the moly grease in the FD for the same effect as a lube like Guard Dog?
That dry moly looks like a real bargain to me.  I think I'll try some. Does anyone know if the size of the grains is appropriate for use in FD and transmissions? Or does that matter?

    

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
Within reason, the particle size should not be an issue.  Where it matters is when people add moly to engine oil as it can get trapped in/clog up the oil filter if the particles are too big.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
@brickrider2 wrote:
That dry moly looks like a real bargain to me.  I think I'll try some. Does anyone know if the size of the grains is appropriate for use in FD and transmissions? Or does that matter?
I did a search on that question and it seems that particle sizes from 1-100 microns is used for lubrication purposes so at 1.5 micron this stuff should work.  I would guess that the finer the particle the more it can get into the grain of the metal. 

I just bought a bottle to try in my K75S that has a little trouble upshifting into 3rd and 4th without getting an occasional false neutral.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS
1988 K100RS SE

Past:
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
Now I have to figure out how to clean it out of my sprag clutch before Spring comes around.  Not crazy about the idea of tearing down the engine.  Again.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS
1988 K100RS SE

Past:
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
@Point-Seven-five wrote:Now I have to figure out how to clean it out of my sprag clutch before Spring comes around.  Not crazy about the idea of tearing down the engine.  Again.

Good article on starter sprags:
http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/kstartersprag.htm


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

Holister

Holister
Life time member
Life time member
@duck wrote:I use Guard Dog in my bikes. Works fine.

About 3.6 fl oz in the trans, about 1.1 fl oz in the final drive.

It does take a few hundred miles to work its way in to the point where you notice it when shifting but it does make a difference.

The side benefit is that moly also reduces wear.
3.6 fl. oz (about 100ml) of Guard Dog moly grease in 850ml GB oil equates to about 3% moly content.

Trying to source moly powder in Oz before I go ordering from the states. Got a few phone numbers to call on monday.

Back to splines, here's an interesting article once you get past the guff ... Motorcycle Shaft Drive Grease


__________________________________________________

1989 K100RT     VIN  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN  0451808
  Spline lube - I hate this job, I really do Austra12    Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

brickrider2

brickrider2
Life time member
Life time member
I read the article on spline lubes and now I'm become curious about Krytox.  If this is the greatest thing since tortillas, it's odd there is not discussion about it (at least on the m/c forums I read).  The cost of Krytox really gives one pause, but if it will allow one to significantly extend the time between service of the splines, it may be practical to use.  I suppose 2 ozs. is enough to do the clutch and FD splines.  Has anyone actually used Krytox on the K-bikes, or am I to be the one to bite the bullet on this?
I've been using a mix of Honda 60 moly and Wurth sticky grease for a few years now.  With the riding I typically do, that lubrication is easily good for 25-30K miles before I need to service those parts again.  If I could double that interval with Krytox, I'd be more than delighted.

    

Holister

Holister
Life time member
Life time member
@brickrider2 wrote:....
I suppose 2 ozs. is enough to do the clutch and FD splines.
I'd say 2 ozs (approx 60g) is enough to do 4 or 5 spline lubes. I use about 15 to 20g of GD 30% moly and you need less with Krytox.

If you're going to give it a go, best to have a read of these.

[url=http://www.fluidseals.com.au/files/datasheets/DuPont Krytox Product guide.pdf]Product overview[/url]. There are a few different versions of Krytox for different applications. I think Krytox GPL 226 is what you need??? but you need to do your own research on that.

[url=http://www.fluidseals.com.au/files/brochures/Krytox product overview.pdf]And have a read of this[/url]. You can skip thru most of it as it gets a bit technical but there's handy user info towards the end.

You can bulk buy in a 500g tub for US$235 or pay a lot more for smaller quantities thru ebay etc.

I can feel another BULK BUY coming on!
I'd give the 500g tub a go if there were 9 other Ozzies willing to participate in a bulk buy.
US$235 = approx AU$330 +$50 frt / 10 = AU$38 each, maybe $40.
You'd get 50g (nearly 2oz) of Krytox GPL 226. Applied correctly I estimate you'd get about 4 maybe 5 complete spline lubes. That's gotta last you a few years at least.


__________________________________________________

1989 K100RT     VIN  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN  0451808
  Spline lube - I hate this job, I really do Austra12    Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

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