BMW K bikes (Bricks)

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SunnyPerth

SunnyPerth
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Hi All,

It’s my time to reach out to the wisdom here, hopefully for some good pointers.

As you might have seen from my intro, I recently purchased a 89 K100RS with ABS.
This bike has probably been outside/not riding for a while (not licensed, can’t check when was the last time it was licensed) but when I purchased it, the previous owner did change out the injectors and the engine was running. It’s going to be along road to get it back to a nice bike, but my first priority is to get it licensed so I know I don’t restore for nothing.

I’ve done quite a bit already to get here; all fluids, new plugs, new fuel and vacuum hoses, the stanchions were rusted out, so have new front forks. Overhauled the complete breaking system (new seals, pads, brake fluid, new rear master cylinder, cleaned up front master cylinder). Replaced the clutch cable etc etc.
This means the bike is now so far I’m able to ride it around the block, and it rides nice. ABS even seems to work. However as it’s not licensed, I can’t (really) ride it any more than that. So I’ve not been able to take it for a nice long ride. It does blow some blue smoke. Not incredible lot, but a bit.

While the engine starts with a click on the button, I do have a bit of a “strange” symptom. I think.. in short, I think that the cylinder one is not performing.
I say this, as when I pull the spark plug cable while the engine is running, the engine does keep running without a lot of protest. When I pull any of the other plugs, it clearly does protest. As I want to make sure I don’t have an engine that is a dud or to much work, I’ve gone on a fact finding mission…

- K100KS 89 2V. 68k on the clock (but clock doesn’t work anymore, need new gears)
- Compression 160/160/155/170 PSI - so all good
- Valve Clearance all within spec: In/out: 0.10/0.30 0.15/0.25 0.15/0.25 0.10/0.30mm
- New Fuel, new fuel hoses. Tank and pump from my (perfectly fine K1100)
- Fuel rail cleaned.
- New injectors (by previous owner) “ANZ-844” (not sure if these are the correct ones)
- New spark plugs NKG D7EA with 0.6mm gaps. Plugs changed between cylinders doesn’t make a difference. Spark plugs dry and black sooted. (But haven’t been able to ride the bike for a decent trip)
- Coil plug 1&4 14k ohm and 2.1 ohm
- Coil plug 2&3 13.4k ohm and 2.1 ohm
- Spark Plug Cable cylinder 1 = 4.9k ohm
- Temperature Sensor 20’c = 27k ohm, 96’c = 203 ohm
- Fuel pressure regulator does seem not to leak (running bike without hose connected, doesn’t smell or leak from vacuum hose)

As mentioned, there are new injectors installed. They work, I have switched them around (cylinder 1&2) but that didn’t make a difference. However, I’m not sure about these injectors, if they give to much/little fuel. The only identification on them is “AZN-844”.

I don’t think the TB’s are leaking, sprayed some flammable spry around them while the bike was running, no difference. However I have not taken the TB’s of the engine yet.

I have tried to sync the TB’s, and I found that I had to wind out the vacuum screw from TB1/Cylinder1 a lot more than any of the other cylinders.

Any ideas?

My thoughts are now…
- Leak in one or more TB seals. So take the TB off and clean it (not touching the adjust ment screws).
- Valve stems seals? (Don’t really want to pull the head to check before I licence the bike, and then pull the bike apart to restore)
- Injectors, get a set of matched good injectors. (But I think this is less likely the the cause of the “issue” with the first cylinder. But could be cause of blue smoke?

Or don’t worry about it… get it synced properly and get it over the pits, go for a good ride?

Cheers from Perth!

    

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
Life time member
Do a compression test with the throttle wide open. If #1 comes in with a comparatively low number, squirt some oil in that cylinder and try again to help determine if ring wear is the problem's source. If it still comes in low, do a leak-down test; that test might enable you to identify the source of the fault.


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 81,000 miles
Cylinder one not playing nice / new old engine revive  Usa-lo10
    

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
I assume the 160 psi is the compression in the #1 cylinder.  While the compression tests good, you might still have a cylinder with sticky rings as witnessed by the oil smoke. (I am assuming this smoke is constant and not just on start up as that is a normal part of the "charm" of these old beasts)  A little Seafoam or Marvel Mystery Oil in the fuel and crankcase will help free up and clean the ring lands in the pistons.

The fact that you have to crank out the idle screw on the #1 throttle body says that there is an issue there.  In my experience, those screws should be about 1 1/2 to 2 turns from lightly bottomed.  First thing I would do here is remove the screw and shoot some carb cleaner down the bore as well as into the vacuum port.

Do your spark plugs have terminal Nuts?  NGK D7EA plugs do not come with them, and if they aren't there it is not unusual to have unreliable spark in the cylinders.  It is also possible to have a bad plug wire that shows good resistance, but has a high voltage leak that loses spark when trying to fire into engine compression. 

I don't think you need to be concerned about valve stem seals, at 68K the engine is just broken in and the internal parts should be in very good shape.  If it were my bike, and it was starting and running well around the block, I would license it and take it for a few rides checking the spark plugs for evidence of mixture and oil control.  Personally, it sounds like your engine is in pretty good shape.

Have you checked the drive shaft and final drive splines for wear?  That is the next place where problems can be hiding in a neglected machine.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS


Past:
1988 K100RS SE
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
At least in my experience trouble synching a TB usually means a TB boot leak.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

92KK 84WW Olaf

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
If the issue is only cylinder 1 on its own then the problem arises in items specific to that cylinder.

Swap plug lads with no 4 at the cvoil end. If it swaps, there is a coil issue. To verify this swap the coils.

If it stays at no 1 it is plug lead or plug issue or injector/injector plug connector/local wire break issue or issue inside cylinder.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011157 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 54,800 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 42,640 miles.

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

SunnyPerth

SunnyPerth
active member
active member
Thx people!!

Will reply in more detail later today (from laptop) but:
Seems I’m having two individual issues -
Smoke and no (strong) spark or fuel issue
- compression is good at all cylinders. (The list with numbers is from cylinder 1-4)
- have done the swaps with coil leads. Not jet swapped the coils. Will do that next.
- will clean the vacuum screw adjustment things, and if I get some time pull the tb’s to check the seals.
- smoke / seafoam. Is there a similar product that Is readily available in oz ? Else will order some online. Definitely sounds like it might be a stuck piston ring or carbon build up.
Thx guys - excited to do some more fact finding !

    

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
Smoke: If the smoke is caused by oil leaking past the rings it won't fully go away in just a "ride around the block."

Do you park it on the center or side stand?

Even bikes built after 2/88 with the newer rings can still smoke if left on the side stand.

So either:

1) Keep it parked on the center stand.

2) Before putting it on the side stand, turn the bike off, tilt it to the right for 6-10 seconds in order to let the oil behind the cylinders drain back into the sump. Less oil behind the cylinder heads means less oil to  seep by the rings into the combustion chamber.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

SunnyPerth

SunnyPerth
active member
active member
Yup, I’ve always parked it on centre stand , that’s for the past few months and before / after test rides Wink

    

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
I think Seafoam and Marvel Mystery Oil are both available in Oz.  Ask around, I seem to recall it being available online somewhere.  Apparently, Subaru has some sort of engine cleaner available in Oz that does a similar job, but I have no experience with it.,

Be aware that if you have stuck oil control rings it may take as long as a thousand miles to loosen them up. 

If you can't find MMO in Oz, you can try mixing some naptha with light oil or automatic transmission fluid and some wintergreen oil(this is the magic ingredient) from the local chemist shop.  An analysis was done on MMO a while back and these are the ingredients that were found in it.

Half and half naptha and oil with about 10% wintergreen oil.  Put some in the cylinder through the spark plug hole and turn the engine over by hand a few times with the spark plugs out.  Lean the bike over to the right side as much as possible to get the mix as far around the piston as possible.  Let it sit overnight and repeat.  Do this every day over the course of a week.  Then for the last shot crank the engine a few times to blow any remaining oil out before putting the plugs in and taking it for a ride.  Any leftover mix can be put in the fuel at about 60ML to a full tank.  This will help clean out any remaining carbon.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS


Past:
1988 K100RS SE
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

SunnyPerth

SunnyPerth
active member
active member
Laitch wrote:Do a compression test with the throttle wide open. If #1 comes in with a comparatively low number, squirt some oil in that cylinder and try again to help determine if ring wear is the problem's source. If it still comes in low, do a leak-down test; that test might enable you to identify the  source of the fault.

Thanks. Yes. Done with throttle wide open. The compression on Cyl-1 to Cyl-4 : 160/160/155/170 —> that’s all well within spec.
Have not done a leak down test - don’t have the gear for it. However, I did keep the pressure meter connected for 5ish min on each cylinder, and he above numbers didn’t change.

    

SunnyPerth

SunnyPerth
active member
active member
Point-Seven-five wrote:I assume the 160 psi is the compression in the #1 cylinder.  While the compression tests good, you might still have a cylinder with sticky rings as witnessed by the oil smoke. (I am assuming this smoke is constant and not just on start up as that is a normal part of the "charm" of these old beasts)  A little Seafoam or Marvel Mystery Oil in the fuel and crankcase will help free up and clean the ring lands in the pistons.

Correct, it keeps smoking, not just at start. The engine was nice and warm, when I did the TB Sync.
Will try to find the Seafoam or MMO here in Perth - have not seen it anywhere, but also never asked for it.

Point-Seven-five wrote: The fact that you have to crank out the idle screw on the #1 throttle body says that there is an issue there.  In my experience, those screws should be about 1 1/2 to 2 turns from lightly bottomed.  First thing I would do here is remove the screw and shoot some carb cleaner down the bore as well as into the vacuum port.

Will do that this weekend. To spray it down the vacuum port, I have the remove the plenum, correct? Or do you just mean twice in the same hole where the idle screw goes in?
(I’ve not removed/cleaned the plenum yet)

Point-Seven-five wrote:  Do your spark plugs have terminal Nuts?  NGK D7EA plugs do not come with them, and if they aren't there it is not unusual to have unreliable spark in the cylinders.  It is also possible to have a bad plug wire that shows good resistance, but has a high voltage leak that loses spark when trying to fire into engine compression. 

Yes, terminal nuts installed. Will x-change the coils to see if the issue goes to another cylinder, and might see if I can borrow a good cable from a friends bike.


Point-Seven-five wrote:  I don't think you need to be concerned about valve stem seals, at 68K the engine is just broken in and the internal parts should be in very good shape.  If it were my bike, and it was starting and running well around the block, I would license it and take it for a few rides checking the spark plugs for evidence of mixture and oil control.  Personally, it sounds like your engine is in pretty good shape.
That’s what I was hoping and leaning towards to. 68k (or a bit more, but not a lot, else they would have fixed the odometer, I hope?) is indeed not a lot.   Will likely try the above, and if not, just get is as good as I can and then go for it. (As in go and get it licensed). And then take it for a few good long rides.

Point-Seven-five wrote:  Have you checked the drive shaft and final drive splines for wear?  That is the next place where problems can be hiding in a neglected machine.

Not yet… I did get some of the special grease, so ready to do so, but just having fingers crossed that those are both ok, just need a bit of new grease.

Thanks for all the advice, really appreciated!!

    

SunnyPerth

SunnyPerth
active member
active member
duck wrote:Smoke: If the smoke is caused by oil leaking past the rings it won't fully go away in just a "ride around the block."

Do you park it on the center or side stand?

Even bikes built after 2/88 with the newer rings can still smoke if left on the side stand.

So either:

1) Keep it parked on the center stand.

2) Before putting it on the side stand, turn the bike off, tilt it to the right for 6-10 seconds in order to let the oil behind the cylinders drain back into the sump. Less oil behind the cylinder heads means less oil to  seep by the rings into the combustion chamber.

Thanks Duck. Yes, have the bike on the centrestand. As it is, I also have a 93K1100LT, so I know about the smoke during startup, and the more smoke during startup if you park it for a second on the side stand ;-). Good tip in the tilting to right if need rest on side stand! Tx!

    

SunnyPerth

SunnyPerth
active member
active member
Point-Seven-five wrote:I think Seafoam and Marvel Mystery Oil are both available in Oz.  Ask around, I seem to recall it being available online somewhere.  Apparently, Subaru has some sort of engine cleaner available in Oz that does a similar job, but I have no experience with it.,

Be aware that if you have stuck oil control rings it may take as long as a thousand miles to loosen them up. 

If you can't find MMO in Oz, you can try mixing some naptha with light oil or automatic transmission fluid and some wintergreen oil(this is the magic ingredient) from the local chemist shop.  An analysis was done on MMO a while back and these are the ingredients that were found in it.

Half and half naptha and oil with about 10% wintergreen oil.  Put some in the cylinder through the spark plug hole and turn the engine over by hand a few times with the spark plugs out.  Lean the bike over to the right side as much as possible to get the mix as far around the piston as possible.  Let it sit overnight and repeat.  Do this every day over the course of a week.  Then for the last shot crank the engine a few times to blow any remaining oil out before putting the plugs in and taking it for a ride.  Any leftover mix can be put in the fuel at about 60ML to a full tank.  This will help clean out any remaining carbon.

Lol lol… had to look up wintergreen oil —> “…This is because the benefits of Wintergreen Oil are primarily known for their anti-arthritic and antiseptic properties….” Yes sounds the k100 engine needs some off this ;-)

I assume if I find Seafoam or MMO, the procedure above describes is the same? (Which makes sense btw)

Ta!

    

SunnyPerth

SunnyPerth
active member
active member
Good news, I for sure can order it online “automegastore.com.au” has both products. (MMO and SeaFoam). Not sure if any of the local stores have it (obviously I want it now haha) but will call around tomorrow.

The Subaru stuff is “ Subaru Upper Engine Cleaner” which I likely can get at the Subaru dealers.
Some people referring to “Nulon Upper Engine Cleaner” as doing the same.
https://www.nulon.com.au/products/aerosols/upper-engine-cleaner
Reading the instructions, this could be something with the same effect?

Obviously that’s not for mixing wth the fuel, I do have additive to add to fuel that cleans fuel system.

    

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
SunnyPerth wrote:Have not done a leak down test - don’t have the gear for it. However, I did keep the pressure meter connected for 5ish min on each cylinder, and he above numbers didn’t change.  
That is a good substitute.  I would say that things are tight as far as valves and top piston rings.  Engine is too new to have significant wear issues. This is going to be a nice machine.

"Will do that this weekend. To spray it down the vacuum port, I have the remove the plenum, correct? Or do you just mean twice in the same hole where the idle screw goes in?"

Remove the adjusting screw and the rubber cap on the vacuum test port, then shoot the cleaner in the holes.  Let it sit for a minute or two and give them a shot of compressed air if you have it.  You might have to repeat if the first shot doesn't get it all cleaned out.

I assume if I find Seafoam or MMO, the procedure above describes is the same? (Which makes sense btw) 

Yes.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS


Past:
1988 K100RS SE
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
Life time member
SunnyPerth wrote:
Laitch wrote:Do a compression test with the throttle wide open. If #1 comes in with a comparatively low number, squirt some oil in that cylinder and try again to help determine if ring wear is the problem's source. If it still comes in low, do a leak-down test; that test might enable you to identify the  source of the fault.
Thanks. Yes. Done with throttle wide open.
Clearly, my speed-reading has devolved to speed-skimming this week or I wouldn't have imparted that sage suggestion.

Have you compared the appearance of the spark plugs with each other after one of these smokey runs?


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 81,000 miles
Cylinder one not playing nice / new old engine revive  Usa-lo10
    

SunnyPerth

SunnyPerth
active member
active member
Laitch wrote:
SunnyPerth wrote:
Laitch wrote:Do a compression test with the throttle wide open. If #1 comes in with a comparatively low number, squirt some oil in that cylinder and try again to help determine if ring wear is the problem's source. If it still comes in low, do a leak-down test; that test might enable you to identify the  source of the fault.
Thanks. Yes. Done with throttle wide open.
Clearly, my speed-reading has devolved to speed-skimming this week or I wouldn't have imparted that sage suggestion.

Have you compared the appearance of the spark plugs with each other after one of these smokey runs?
All good all good,
Yes, they all pretty dry-black-soothed.

I’ll do the above, clean out the vacuum ports and the adjust ment screw bores, try to find the seafoam or alike, test with another spark plug cable, and swap both coils & report back. 

This might take a few weeks, as I’m travelling international for a few weeks but, will report back Smile

    

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