BMW K bikes (Bricks)

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Cafe-K


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What sensor part # does the K1100LT use?

    

Cafe-K

Cafe-K
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Thanks for all the info by the way Rick.....almost considering mounting this LED to the bike as it is so small yet so useful and really simple to set up!

    

RicK G

RicK G
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As far as I know it's the BBHME56. It is the same dimentions.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

mike d

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I seem to recall all the BMW bike hall sensors were Honeywell 2AV54, which is the same as the BBHME56.

Mike

    

Cafe-K

Cafe-K
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mike d

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K100, K1 K1100 all used the same part number, so yes.

Are you sure the Ebay item is a working one?

Mike

    

Cafe-K

Cafe-K
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Just trusting the posting. Says it is paid 40 for the hall sensor complete with harness so keeping my fingers crossed.

    

RicK G

RicK G
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It most likely will be OK they don't give much trouble but age is the killer for most electrical components and that is why I much prefer to buy new with them than used because although working now they will be likely to fail within a few years.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

Cafe-K

Cafe-K
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Cheaping out to see if I get an immediate fix and if it works (figured this was the simplest/cheapest solution) then I will be prepared to spend more on new components in the near future should it become necessary :-)

    

RicK G

RicK G
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I agree until you know it's fixed it is still a suck it and see especially with electrical components.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

Cafe-K

Cafe-K
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Maybe it's what I get for purchasing a used hall sensor on eBay, but I am still getting both 1122 and 1133 motronic fault codes indicating no signal. I am getting spark however??? Shouldn't it be a no spark condition if the hall sensors were not working?

I am also getting the TPS fault code 1215, but I have adjusted it so that my 12V LED lights up at idle and immediately turns off when I twist the throttle. I also got code 1223 for a water temp sensor out of limits, but that has since mysteriously disappeared.

Progress made is that I have cleaned up my wiring harness and soldered in the resistors. LED turn signals look and work beautifully now! Thanks for the help there.

I have a slot scheduled at my local BMW shop for next Thursday at 9am unless I can somehow work a miracle and get this thing going before then!

New Motronic unit also cured the fan problem and the fuel pressure issues. The bike now holds 36 PSI right on the button.

    

twincarb

twincarb
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Is the K1100's ignition controlled by a separate electronic ignition box as with the le Jetronic K's? As on the Jetronic systems that's what takes the signal from the hall sensor and sends it to the coils and EFI....

Also are your spark plugs the resistor ones which the K1100 manual says they should be? As non resistor one's could cause electrical surge back to the Motronic (Thats what I am lead to believe the resistors are in there for)


__________________________________________________
BMW K100LT 1988 Matt Black Peugeot Electra Blue (ELX) Colour is now confirmed...
Yamaha Thundercat
Triumph Spitfire (not a bike but hell it's British chaps)
Starting Issues - Suspect Electrical Problems? - Page 2 169042 Starting Issues - Suspect Electrical Problems? - Page 2 169034
    

Cafe-K

Cafe-K
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So I have an ignition amplifier on the battery box that I believe could also be the cause/weak spark? Would that be the same as the Jetronic controlled bikes? That's a good point I do have a replacement in the garage but I'm not sure how to test it (also used).

I am using an NGK DR7EA resistor type plug that is recommended as the alternative to the Bosch. I'm thinking the plugs should not be the problem.

    

twincarb

twincarb
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That does sound like the thing that I am thinking of.... I am thinking that a weak spark could be caused by to quick an on/off signal from there... That or the coil packs themselves. If you have a spare ignition box I would connect it up and see if it changes anything.... I don't think there is any way of testing off the bike.

I was thinking that maybe something caused a spike which is why I asked about the resistors.


__________________________________________________
BMW K100LT 1988 Matt Black Peugeot Electra Blue (ELX) Colour is now confirmed...
Yamaha Thundercat
Triumph Spitfire (not a bike but hell it's British chaps)
Starting Issues - Suspect Electrical Problems? - Page 2 169042 Starting Issues - Suspect Electrical Problems? - Page 2 169034
    

RicK G

RicK G
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@twincarb wrote:Is the K1100's ignition controlled by a separate electronic ignition box as with the le Jetronic K's? As on the Jetronic systems that's what takes the signal from the hall sensor and sends it to the coils and EFI....

Also are your spark plugs the resistor ones which the K1100 manual says they should be? As non resistor one's could cause electrical surge back to the Motronic (Thats what I am lead to believe the resistors are in there for)
The motronic ignition system is controled from within the ECU but to prevent heat issues within the ECU the final switching stage which can get hot is outside the ECU and is called the ignition amplifier and sttached to the battery cradle to get rid of the heat.
The resistor plugs are needed to match the impedence in the coils to the load (a very neccessary thing to prevent heat buildup because of signal reflection etc.) and if the resistive plug isnt there then the heat build up occurs but it is not there to prevent the heat build up.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

twincarb

twincarb
Life time member
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Rick, do the symptoms add up that there could be a problem with the ignition amp? I am guessing that the motornic recieves the signal from the hall sensors and then o/p's what the ignition amp needs which would be after it's fault detection circuit...


__________________________________________________
BMW K100LT 1988 Matt Black Peugeot Electra Blue (ELX) Colour is now confirmed...
Yamaha Thundercat
Triumph Spitfire (not a bike but hell it's British chaps)
Starting Issues - Suspect Electrical Problems? - Page 2 169042 Starting Issues - Suspect Electrical Problems? - Page 2 169034
    

RicK G

RicK G
VIP
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@Cafe-K wrote:So I have an ignition amplifier on the battery box that I believe could also be the cause/weak spark? Would that be the same as the Jetronic controlled bikes? That's a good point I do have a replacement in the garage but I'm not sure how to test it (also used).

I am using an NGK DR7EA resistor type plug that is recommended as the alternative to the Bosch. I'm thinking the plugs should not be the problem.

If you do change it then be sure to use a good heat sink paste on the back that way the heat transfer is the best you can get.
Any computer shop will have some as it is used on the CPUs in all computers.
Might pay to check that the heat sink paste that is on there has not gone hard and stopped working, this can often cause problems.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

Cafe-K

Cafe-K
Silver member
Silver member
So I have some Silver 5 Polysynthetic Silver thermal paste.....would that fit the bill for the ignition amplifier? Also, do you guys think that the symptoms seem to point towards that component being bad? The fault codes could be related to the amp being bad? Thanks for all the help....the knowledge base on this forum is amazing!!!

This kind of advice costs good $$$ in the real world Very Happy

    

RicK G

RicK G
VIP
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@twincarb wrote:Rick, do the symptoms add up that there could be a problem with the ignition amp? I am guessing that the motornic recieves the signal from the hall sensors and then o/p's what the ignition amp needs which would be after it's fault detection circuit...
From the symptoms yes but I have just changed my amp for much the same reasons to no avail and now have a spare amp that I think is OK but even that I am not real sure about. I have heard all sorts of strange problems blamed on faulty amps.
My bike runs at the moment so I am one step in front but I don't think its a very big step.
Quite probably right but with that I would only be guessing too.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

Cafe-K

Cafe-K
Silver member
Silver member
I just stumbled across some information regarding the testing of amps. It said to test pin #4 on the connector which is the ground pin and check them against pin #1 and #6. That circuit is supposed to be open as they connect to the ignition coils. If they are shorted closed then the amp is supposedly dead. Based on my limited knowledge on electronics it seems to make sense....might be worth testing?

http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-8711.html here is the source for the info above

I also read that the ground on the battery box does not affect the amp since the back plate is not connected to the internals and pin #4 is the ground connection. Does this sound correct?

Rick where did you find a spare?

I can't wait to hear my bike fire....hopefully under the wisdom of this forum rather than the $$$ BMW shop.



Last edited by Cafe-K on Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:03 pm; edited 1 time in total

    

RicK G

RicK G
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EME here is the link http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/BMW-K-Parts-s/60.htm?searching=Y&sort=13&cat=60&show=20&page=1
Have a look through there are heaps at goodies at reasonable prices and the quality is good. Most seem to be OEM but at reasonable prices so he makes a good living and not a big rip off.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

Cafe-K

Cafe-K
Silver member
Silver member
I grabbed the multimeter to test my spare ignition amp and the readings showed some resistance across pins #1, 4, and 6. They definitely weren't open circuits. Would that indicate a problem with the amplifier? I also found it interesting that the resistance was the same for pins 4 & 1 and 4 & 6. I'm just not 100% sure about the logic or if this is an appropriate way to test the amp....

Rick thanks for the link that is a terrific resource with spectacular savings over dealer prices!

    

Cafe-K

Cafe-K
Silver member
Silver member
Latest update is I have tested my new "used" hall sensors with the 12V LED test listed in the troubleshooting guide from this forum. The hall sensors passed the test with flying colors. Light on until I placed a feeler gauge between the sensors at which point the light went off.

My motronic fault codes are still reading 1122 and 1133 and the TPS which is also adjusted correctly. I'm searching for a commonality between these components to see what I come up with.

    

RicK G

RicK G
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Cafe-K if you go to the K11OG site they specialize in K11 and 16v and have heaps more info about them than this site has.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

Inge K.

Inge K.
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@Cafe-K wrote:I grabbed the multimeter to test my spare ignition amp and the readings showed some resistance across pins #1, 4, and 6. They definitely weren't open circuits. Would that indicate a problem with the amplifier? I also found it interesting that the resistance was the same for pins 4 & 1 and 4 & 6. I'm just not 100% sure about the logic or if this is an appropriate way to test the amp....

This sounds normal,,, with connection between 1/6 & 4, it should go open at the moment the spark is wanted to occur.


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

Cafe-K

Cafe-K
Silver member
Silver member
Thanks Inge I think that you're correct and the amp is okay. So my triumphs include rewiring the entire bike to support LED turn and brake signals. The ABS is completely removed and brakes are working better than ever. The engine seems to be so close to running it's almost painful to press the start button. Lots of grumbles and some smoke, but no light off.

It's off to BMW on Thursday if I can't figure it out. I will say that the bike lived at sea level and now I have it at 5000ft. Not sure if that would render it non-start? Thanks for all of the help and support so far guys!

    

92KK 84WW Olaf

92KK 84WW Olaf
Life time member
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I only read ther last post but in the Clymer manual there is an adjustment to be made if you move the bike to a location above 4,500 feet above sea level. ....An electrical jumper is required and it goes on the right hand side under the side panel.....As far as I know this is to modify the fuel/air mix.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Alaska Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 103,800 miles
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 36,188  miles
    

RicK G

RicK G
VIP
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Cafe's bike is a 16v with moronic injection which doesn't need or have that.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

GerryP

GerryP
Silver member
Silver member
Hi Cafe-K,

Here's something you may be interested in reading. Originally put online by a chap called Frank Warner but I can't remember the Forum I found it on. Specifically for the Motronics 2.1, it allows you to test the sensors and CO2 pot from the inside of the Motronics connector.

k1100_motronic_2.1_by_Frank_Warner-1.pdf

As you've probably found out by now your bike doesn't have an Lambda sensor (if it does this post is not relevant). Instead it has a CO2 potentiometer misleadingly called a 'tickover adjuster' in the official documentation. This is a butch-looking adjuster with a flathead screw in the side. Its just visible if you take off the left side cover and peer along the front of the relay box just behind the TPS.

Starting Issues - Suspect Electrical Problems? - Page 2 C02pot

Inside this case is a ridiculously delicate ten-turn 1000 ohm surface-mount potentiometer. If a Motronics 2.1 box is running rich the CO2 pot has almost certainly been broken by over-twisting (my problem as it turned out). Once I fixed the CO2 pot I set it to 500 ohms and gradually weakened it 'til its now its at 700 ohms. It has totally transformed the way the bike responds to the throttle and the amount of fuel it uses.

If you've got all your other ducks in a row this should not stop the bike from starting, but you'll only get about 20 mpg(US). So I think you'll find something else as well (like the timing sensor not working).

Hope this helps...


__________________________________________________
Safe riding Cool,
Gerry Parnham


K1100LT (1993) in Silk Blue/Cream
http://gerryparnham.com
    

RicK G

RicK G
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Thanks for the link Gerry that will be a help to me as well as I have been chasing a problem with my K1100 LT and it may well be the CO2 pot. Every other thing that could be turned with a screwdriver or by hand had been turned even the throttle linkages.
I suspect that it was one of the well known dealers where it was taken for work.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1993 K1100 LT, 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 for now
    

Cafe-K

Cafe-K
Silver member
Silver member
Thanks for the info that's definitely something that I haven't checked yet. Right now the bike is with the guys at Sierra BMW getting a once over in case I overlooked something. Hoping for good news when the phone call comes Very Happy Will let you guys know what they find (if anything)!!

    

82Back to top Go down   Starting Issues - Suspect Electrical Problems? - Page 2 Empty She Runs!!!!! on Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:53 pm

Cafe-K

Cafe-K
Silver member
Silver member
Hey Guys,

Long overdue update on my 93 K1100 with starting issues......she runs!!! First of all a big thank you to everyone with the support and suggestions. Inge K. was spot on with vacuum leaks. I had all of my boots below the throttle bodies with major vacuum leaks/tears. Of course not visible when directly looking at them, but all I would have had to do is take a peak behind....might invest in a handy little inspection mirror to help with that. But wait there's more.....

So I took the bike to the shop and they had a very tough time diagnosing the issue.....turns out the coils were plugged in incorrectly. However!!!! To my defense the techs claimed that the wiring diagram (which I also followed) showed them plugged into the harness the way I had it when I took it to the shop......interesting right? So I'm not sure if anyone else has encountered this issue or knows anything about it? Maybe I just have a really strange setup.

So bottom line is......$500 later I have a running bike! Now I am fighting a low idle problem....like way low......500RPM so the starter is obviously staying engaged at this level which is not good. I will keep you guys updated and thanks again for all the help and support!!!! (Oh and I've certainly taken her on a few laps around the neighborhood despite my better judgement, but too tempting and what a joy!!!!)

    

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