BMW K bikes (Bricks)

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1Back to top Go down   Almost Total Electrical Shutdown Empty Almost Total Electrical Shutdown on Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:32 am

twincarb

twincarb
Life time member
Life time member
Hi everyone,

Got a little problem on the old K. She was working fine but after a couple of trips to work when it got dark I noticed that the headlights and instrument lights were starting to flicker on and off.

Now she is in the garage the list of things that aren't working is as long as my arm... 
She won't start,
no lights, 
no horn, 
no indicators, 
no ignition firing.

What does work..

Gear position sensor works
fuel pump works when pressing start button
brake lights
fuel gauge
ABS reset button

I am thinking that there has to be something common there but looking at the diagram nothing is jumping out at me. I am going to whip the tank off and check the central earth.... Any suggestions more than welcome.

Twincarb


__________________________________________________
BMW K100LT 1988 Matt Black Peugeot Electra Blue (ELX) Colour is now confirmed...
Yamaha Thundercat
Triumph Spitfire (not a bike but hell it's British chaps)
Almost Total Electrical Shutdown 169042 Almost Total Electrical Shutdown 169034
    

2Back to top Go down   Almost Total Electrical Shutdown Empty Re: Almost Total Electrical Shutdown on Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:09 am

Brynogwy

Brynogwy
active member
active member
What is the battery output under load?

    

3Back to top Go down   Almost Total Electrical Shutdown Empty Re: Almost Total Electrical Shutdown on Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:14 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

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Life time member
First step is make sure battery is good and that the electrolyte has not dropped too low. Its time of year for batteries to die.

First off: make sure the charging light does actually light when you turn on the ignition. If this is out then you must replace the bulb as otherwise you get no charge.

Second: Bad battery creates problems like you are describing so start there. Check it has electrolyte to the correct level. Charge it and see if then everything works. If everything works properly then you are looking at either battery not holding charge [new battery], a problem in charging side or a current drain.

Third: Check the fuses are good. They are notorious for problems so take them out and refit them or even better out new ones in.

If you have accessories make sure none of these are on all the time, heated grips, electric windshield. If you can, check there is no current draw across any of the fuses when the ignition is off. [clock/alarm if fitted etc will show some current draw, not sure of which fuse but post findings here and you will get a fast answer!]. 

All the above steps are simple ones and do not need any parts to be removed. Do them first and see if all is ok.

If not.......

Check earths as you suggest. All the brown wire to frame connections are earths, open clean/sand and refit. Some under tank, also to gearbox casing. While in there check all wires are good too, no bare or broken wires.

I reckon do that much and come back.....

.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Alaska Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 105,200 miles
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 36,188  miles
    

4Back to top Go down   Almost Total Electrical Shutdown Empty Re: Almost Total Electrical Shutdown on Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:26 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

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Life time member
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Lights, horn, indicators et. I recall a post on this and I may be wrong but think it was to do with fuse 7 as in the bottom fuse. The fuses can fail and still look good so swap it or at least clean it. Should do all of them.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Alaska Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 105,200 miles
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 36,188  miles
    

5Back to top Go down   Almost Total Electrical Shutdown Empty Re: Almost Total Electrical Shutdown on Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:23 am

twincarb

twincarb
Life time member
Life time member
The battery electrolyte was low, so have topped that up. 
The battery is kicking out 13V drops to 12.3 with heated grips turned on
Fuses...... swapped fuse 7 for another no change (most of my fuses are still original BMW!)
Have got the battery on charge at the moment, the charger is saying it's only needing to give it a conditioning charge


__________________________________________________
BMW K100LT 1988 Matt Black Peugeot Electra Blue (ELX) Colour is now confirmed...
Yamaha Thundercat
Triumph Spitfire (not a bike but hell it's British chaps)
Almost Total Electrical Shutdown 169042 Almost Total Electrical Shutdown 169034
    

6Back to top Go down   Almost Total Electrical Shutdown Empty Re: Almost Total Electrical Shutdown on Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:27 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

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Life time member
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The waiting is painful.

That's when its time to
a: have a coffee
b: have a beer, but that means if its ok after there is no ride.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Alaska Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 105,200 miles
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 36,188  miles
    

7Back to top Go down   Almost Total Electrical Shutdown Empty Re: Almost Total Electrical Shutdown on Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:49 am

twincarb

twincarb
Life time member
Life time member
It has to be a) due to being on call tonight for the local blood bike charity!


__________________________________________________
BMW K100LT 1988 Matt Black Peugeot Electra Blue (ELX) Colour is now confirmed...
Yamaha Thundercat
Triumph Spitfire (not a bike but hell it's British chaps)
Almost Total Electrical Shutdown 169042 Almost Total Electrical Shutdown 169034
    

8Back to top Go down   Almost Total Electrical Shutdown Empty Re: Almost Total Electrical Shutdown on Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:50 am

Inge K.

Inge K.
VIP
VIP
when it got dark I noticed that the headlights and instrument lights were starting to flicker on and off.

Now she is in the garage the list of things that aren't working is as long as my arm... 
She won't start,
no lights, 
no horn, 
no indicators, 
no ignition firing.





All this (exept no ignition) is typical symptoms for bad connection at the LSR.
Is your wiring for the ignition modified?......or you maybe got two different problems


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

9Back to top Go down   Almost Total Electrical Shutdown Empty Re: Almost Total Electrical Shutdown on Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:52 am

twincarb

twincarb
Life time member
Life time member
Hi Inge,

The igntion wiring isn't modified, I have got relays in for the headlight. Just been back down to the garage with the ignition on P the side light and rear light illuminate. Turn the key fully and they go out.

Just thinking about a possibility of ignition switch issue now. I have berts diagram in front of me as I type!


__________________________________________________
BMW K100LT 1988 Matt Black Peugeot Electra Blue (ELX) Colour is now confirmed...
Yamaha Thundercat
Triumph Spitfire (not a bike but hell it's British chaps)
Almost Total Electrical Shutdown 169042 Almost Total Electrical Shutdown 169034
    

10Back to top Go down   Almost Total Electrical Shutdown Empty Re: Almost Total Electrical Shutdown on Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:58 am

Inge K.

Inge K.
VIP
VIP
When you have the ignition switch in position P the side and tail is powered directly from the battery via the ignition switch.

In the on position it's powered via the LSR.


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

11Back to top Go down   Almost Total Electrical Shutdown Empty Re: Almost Total Electrical Shutdown on Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:05 pm

kioolt

kioolt
Silver member
Silver member
When you say it won't start, do you mean the starter will not turn over or it turns over put it won't run? 

My first thought when I read your symptoms was starter brushes.  The headlight flickering could be the load shed relay turning on and off which can be caused by the starter brushes.  A pretty simple way to check this is to put the bike in gear and roll in backwards.  This will cause the sprauge starter clutch to turn the starter motor backwards which will sometimes get you temporary headlight and starter function.  You could also just try tapping on the starter to see if that makes your headlight return.  Another way would be to just put your voltmeter on the starter lead at the starter to see if you have 12v.  If you have 12v and the starter isn't running then your starter brushes are your problem.


__________________________________________________
2004 R1150RT 186,800 miles 
1991 K100LT 128,700 miles
1982 R100RT 106,900 miles
Total 422,400 BMW miles

AMA,BMWRA,BMWMOA


The cheapest thing on a BMW is the nut that connects the handlebars to the seat.
    

12Back to top Go down   Almost Total Electrical Shutdown Empty Re: Almost Total Electrical Shutdown on Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:17 pm

twincarb

twincarb
Life time member
Life time member
By won't start... She doesn't turn over, you hear the fuel pump pumping.

I put the volt meter onto the Starter.... 12V 

Put her into 1st rolled her back headlight come on.

So the suspicion is the starter motor brushes...

guess I will be ordering a new set now then.... and then it will be stripping out the starter motor. Best swap the bikes around in the garage so I have some room to move then! 

Thanks for your help guys Very Happy most appreciated Very Happy


__________________________________________________
BMW K100LT 1988 Matt Black Peugeot Electra Blue (ELX) Colour is now confirmed...
Yamaha Thundercat
Triumph Spitfire (not a bike but hell it's British chaps)
Almost Total Electrical Shutdown 169042 Almost Total Electrical Shutdown 169034
    

13Back to top Go down   Almost Total Electrical Shutdown Empty Re: Almost Total Electrical Shutdown on Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:24 pm

Inge K.

Inge K.
VIP
VIP
@kioolt wrote:My first thought when I read your symptoms was starter brushes.  The headlight flickering could be the load shed relay turning on and off which can be caused by the starter brushes. 



+1.

Another metod is to ground the starter input wire...don't touch the starter button when doing this test.


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

14Back to top Go down   Almost Total Electrical Shutdown Empty Re: Almost Total Electrical Shutdown on Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:01 pm

twincarb

twincarb
Life time member
Life time member
Just stripped the starter motor.... New brushes are needed...

should be here in a couple of days, then will see how things are Very Happy


__________________________________________________
BMW K100LT 1988 Matt Black Peugeot Electra Blue (ELX) Colour is now confirmed...
Yamaha Thundercat
Triumph Spitfire (not a bike but hell it's British chaps)
Almost Total Electrical Shutdown 169042 Almost Total Electrical Shutdown 169034
    

15Back to top Go down   Almost Total Electrical Shutdown Empty Re: Almost Total Electrical Shutdown on Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:04 pm

92KK 84WW Olaf

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
Could load shed relay be shot?


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Alaska Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 105,200 miles
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 36,188  miles
    

16Back to top Go down   Almost Total Electrical Shutdown Empty Re: Almost Total Electrical Shutdown on Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:01 pm

MikeP

MikeP
Life time member
Life time member
PM sent.


__________________________________________________
1992 K1
1993 K1100R (used to be an LT)
    

17Back to top Go down   Almost Total Electrical Shutdown Empty Re: Almost Total Electrical Shutdown on Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:55 pm

92KK 84WW Olaf

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Life time member
Life time member
Its a cheap enough fix when it comes down to it!

You can use the Blood Bike for tonight...if you get a call.

We are setting one up here too, signed up for it. Its a great idea and helpful.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Alaska Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 105,200 miles
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 36,188  miles
    

18Back to top Go down   Almost Total Electrical Shutdown Empty Re: Almost Total Electrical Shutdown on Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:04 pm

twincarb

twincarb
Life time member
Life time member
It would have been a cheap fix if I hadn't been attracted by some shiny things..... 

Have also ordered progressive springs... New rear Disk and Pads....

The blood bike I have at the moment is a CBF 600.... not to bad as a bike and has a massive amount of storage capacity but she isn't refined... By the sounds of it I will soon be getting a r1200RTP which I have ridden before but it's a different bike to ride! 

[url=bloodbikes.org]Devon Freewheelers[/url] link to our website, if there are any questions or help needed get in touch as we are more than willing to help out wherever we can. How far off are you from being on the road as they say!


__________________________________________________
BMW K100LT 1988 Matt Black Peugeot Electra Blue (ELX) Colour is now confirmed...
Yamaha Thundercat
Triumph Spitfire (not a bike but hell it's British chaps)
Almost Total Electrical Shutdown 169042 Almost Total Electrical Shutdown 169034
    

19Back to top Go down   Almost Total Electrical Shutdown Empty Re: Almost Total Electrical Shutdown on Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:31 pm

kioolt

kioolt
Silver member
Silver member
92KK K100LT 193214 wrote:Could load shed relay be shot?
What a lot people don't understand is that the load shed relay will not keep the bike from starting.  The load shed relay disconnects the UN-NEEDED load from the battery while starting.  Since the starter is needed when starting the load shed relay does not disconnect it.  That also goes for the ignition system, fuel injection, and fuel pump. Also, the load shed relay is not the cause of the starter not working, it is a result of the starter not working.


__________________________________________________
2004 R1150RT 186,800 miles 
1991 K100LT 128,700 miles
1982 R100RT 106,900 miles
Total 422,400 BMW miles

AMA,BMWRA,BMWMOA


The cheapest thing on a BMW is the nut that connects the handlebars to the seat.
    

20Back to top Go down   Almost Total Electrical Shutdown Empty Re: Almost Total Electrical Shutdown on Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:17 pm

twincarb

twincarb
Life time member
Life time member
replaced the brush set today, as soon as all was connected back up, she fired first time. So a great result there...

Also whipped the rear wheel off and replaced the rear disk and pads, rear brake is now superb. Nextjob fit progressive springs then new front disks and pads Very Happy


__________________________________________________
BMW K100LT 1988 Matt Black Peugeot Electra Blue (ELX) Colour is now confirmed...
Yamaha Thundercat
Triumph Spitfire (not a bike but hell it's British chaps)
Almost Total Electrical Shutdown 169042 Almost Total Electrical Shutdown 169034
    

21Back to top Go down   Almost Total Electrical Shutdown Empty Re: Almost Total Electrical Shutdown on Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:48 am

charlie99

charlie99
VIP
VIP
a pleasing result twincarb ....onya mate !


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%OAlmost Total Electrical Shutdown Au-log10

'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
    

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