BMW K bikes (Bricks)

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Rendrag

Rendrag
Silver member
Silver member
Hi Folks,

So the VFR doesn't tow quite as well as the K100 did - it's quite a bit more susceptible to locking up the front wheel under not-so-heavy braking - which the K100 never had a problem with at all.

So I'd like to get some weight off the rear of the bike.  Sitting at a normal load, but nothing in the esky on the drawbar, she sits at 27kg on the towhitch.  If I take the 2kg gas cylinder off the drawbar, she drops to 21kg on the towhitch.  If I take the 30kg deep-cycle battery out of the trailer (sits as far back in the tub as I can get it, beside a second 2kg cylinder), it goes back up to 26kg on the towhitch.   On the way home from the FCR, I repacked the trailer a little so I could put the gas cylinder off the drawbar into the trailer tub, (which changes it to be about 22kg on the towhitch), and the front braking on the bike was MUCH more reassuring.

So what I'd really like to do, is weld up and bolt on a small shelf at the back of the trailer (and move the tail lights and numberplate back behind it), and then have the battery and gas bottles mounted onto that.  Like I've mocked up on the picture below:

Trailer balancing..  Can i move the weight further to the rear? Img_1311

That'd get my hitch weight MUCH closer to what'd be comfortable - but I was worried about moving all that weight a foot further back behind the pivot point when moving around in the lane/going around corners, etc..  - thats a lot more momentum as the trailer swings.   

Figured it was worth asking the folks here, as you've all likely towed a lot more than I have Smile   Thoughts?


__________________________________________________
2000 VFR800
    

klompy the grey brick

klompy the grey brick
VIP
VIP
Sidecar?...carry less stuff.....or even better get a K100... Razz


__________________________________________________
KKlompy Trailer balancing..  Can i move the weight further to the rear? 2854237993
"Grace" 1984 K100RS Silver VIN 0019026 Mitt eine Staintune Zorst.
"Olivia" 1997 K1100LT Dark Grey VIN WB1052600W0237453.









Chassis number0019026
Vehicle code0503
SeriesK589
ModelK 100 RS 83 (0502 ( 0503 )
Body typeK 100 RS 83 (0502
Catalog modelECE
Production date1984 / 07
Engine0513)

Trailer balancing..  Can i move the weight further to the rear? Au-log10


    

Rendrag

Rendrag
Silver member
Silver member
Hahah, fair go, I only saw my K100 drive away on a trailer to its new owner on monday last week :-p


__________________________________________________
2000 VFR800
    

Ghost who rides

Ghost who rides
Life time member
Life time member
Putting those items there is a no no IMHO.
Achieve the target ball weight another way, please.
In an iffy situation that stuff acts like a pendulum and will endeavour to control you.
Within the wheelbase is my maxim with regards to loads.
And the question must be asked, You have a trailer and still don't have enough room?
only joking, centralise the mass just ahead of the axle. Try 22 kgs for starters.

edit.. I've never towed with a bike but I've towed caravans (work, lots of kms)
         and trailers heaps of times.



Last edited by Ghost who rides on Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:33 am; edited 1 time in total


__________________________________________________
1986  K 75 C   2nd owner 187,000kms showing .
1987  K100RT  Police repainted, rough and unloved.
    

Rendrag

Rendrag
Silver member
Silver member
Thing is, there's not THAT much in the trailer either..

2 x 2kg gas bottles           12kg
1 x 80AH Deep cycle battery (to run my APAP machine)       30kg
1 x tent pole bag (8 tent poles, two gas lantern poles)       10kg
3 x gas lanterns (can drop that to two, just got a new one off freecycle (big old primus, it's like looking at the sun!) a few weeks ago, haven't removed one of the smaller ones yet)   1kg
1 box of cooking stuff (two of the lanterns live in here, so don't take up any extra space)   - 4kg
  - 2x small frypans
  - 1 x kettle
  - Containers with sugar, chocolate, coffee, salt.
  - UHT milks and soy milk
  - a few camp plates, bowls, cups
  - camp cutlery
1 x Tent            2kg
1 x 3m x 3m tarp to stop dew on tent/work area in good weather     0.5kg
1 x 7m x 7m tarp, plus 2x 7mx2m tarps - Only used in bad weather (7x7 as roof, then enclose on two sides with 7x2's - makes even the most extreme rain a pleasant campsite), but I know the day I DON'T take them, it's going to rain cats and dogs!        4kg
1 x 3-burner BBQ      3kg
1 x folding BBQ stand      1kg
1 x 5L water container     5kg
1 x moon mat          2kg
1 x sleeping bag       1kg
1 x APAP machine     3kg
1 x jumbo camp chair  3kg

Total: ~85kg

Trailer itself is 115kg empty, so that's 200kg loaded, which is within the ballpark - just need to get that ball weight down to 20kg


__________________________________________________
2000 VFR800
    

Rendrag

Rendrag
Silver member
Silver member
Thanks ghost, that's what I was thinking.. I had one interesting time on the way to the FCR, where I 'forgot' and stood the bike up out of a hairpin a bit fast, and the pendulum effect almost threw me onto my side the other direction - took quite some manhandling to get it straight again.  As I was wheeling the trailer into the carport to look at it tonight, I remembered that incident, as I was turning it around, and thought 'hmmm, I'll ask those who've towed more, before I do this!'

I had to put the battery + gas bottle as far back as I have now, to get the weight distribution right.. As you can see in the photo, there's a LOT of tub in front of the axle - makes it bloody hard to get the weight distribution right.  Though I don't really understand why having the battery on top of the axle causes so much weight on the towball - nor why trailer with 30kg battery right at the back only has 6kg less ball weight than trailer without battery..

Maybe the tarps weigh more than I thought (they're directly above the axle, the camp stove, tent, sleeping bag, moon mat, and cooking box sit in front of the axle) - might try and weigh them..   Would be nice to have a better weighing method than simply stepping on the scales while holding something :-p


__________________________________________________
2000 VFR800
    

Ghost who rides

Ghost who rides
Life time member
Life time member
My thoughts now are to remove the esky and relocate to the trailer, shorten the draw bar
preferably with an elegant gooseneck ( is that coupling bolted onto the frame?) .
Why? At the moment the seesaw about the axle, is making you put heavy shit way back
to achieve 20 kgs, shortening (100mm maybe) gives the back end stuff more "weight".
That's what I'd do anyway, and Fab a nice hitch, could probably save 2 kilos there as well.
Ghost


__________________________________________________
1986  K 75 C   2nd owner 187,000kms showing .
1987  K100RT  Police repainted, rough and unloved.
    

RicK G

RicK G
admin
admin
Never ever ever ever have less than 10% of the total weight of the trailer on the tow ball or hitch point.
If you have less then to put it in simple terms the tail will wag the dog and you WILL go down.
The heavy items to the centre of the trailer and the lighter ones at each end.
You should always have between 10 and 15% of the total trailer weight on the hitch
the centre of the ball or hitch should be not lower than the axle and no more than 7% of the radius of the rear wheel above the axle centre line. If over then the weight transfer will lift the rear wheel and if under the weight transfer will push the rear wheel down and take weight of the front wheel causing easy locking.
Take it from an expert so far I have built over 4000 trailers and that includes 356 bike trailers


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 2004 K1200GT 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki
    

Ed

Ed
Life time member
Life time member
@Rendrag wrote:Thing is, there's not THAT much in the trailer either..

2 x 2kg gas bottles           12kg
1 x 80AH Deep cycle battery (to run my APAP machine)       30kg
1 x tent pole bag (8 tent poles, two gas lantern poles)       10kg
3 x gas lanterns (can drop that to two, just got a new one off freecycle (big old primus, it's like looking at the sun!) a few weeks ago, haven't removed one of the smaller ones yet)   1kg
1 box of cooking stuff (two of the lanterns live in here, so don't take up any extra space)   - 4kg
  - 2x small frypans
  - 1 x kettle
  - Containers with sugar, chocolate, coffee, salt.
  - UHT milks and soy milk
  - a few camp plates, bowls, cups
  - camp cutlery
1 x Tent            2kg
1 x 3m x 3m tarp to stop dew on tent/work area in good weather     0.5kg
1 x 7m x 7m tarp, plus 2x 7mx2m tarps - Only used in bad weather (7x7 as roof, then enclose on two sides with 7x2's - makes even the most extreme rain a pleasant campsite), but I know the day I DON'T take them, it's going to rain cats and dogs!        4kg
1 x 3-burner BBQ      3kg
1 x folding BBQ stand      1kg
1 x 5L water container     5kg
1 x moon mat          2kg
1 x sleeping bag       1kg
1 x APAP machine     3kg
1 x jumbo camp chair  3kg

Total: ~85kg

Trailer itself is 115kg empty, so that's 200kg loaded, which is within the ballpark - just need to get that ball weight down to 20kg
Damo, looking at your gear , is there any way of reducing weight by upgrading to alternate items ,
 such as solar led lighting rather than gas cylinders, melamine plates/bowls instead of steel , melamine functions better from experience.
 the cartridge cookers are lighter , those tarps add up too.
it may help with weight balancing and less strain on the bike.
what is your average away time when travelling?
Rick has fitted sway bars to his camper , to help with load .

This was Graeme Jays leaving FCR early on sunday morning, his trailer was packed to the hilt , it was a struggle for him to close the lid.
appears to be more rearward weight behind the axle , not much towball weight ? I can't imagine there was much in the esky by the end of the weekend.
Trailer balancing..  Can i move the weight further to the rear? 06610

my new aquisition is quoted as a tare of less than 50kg, I'm presuming due to the alloy body. 
It also has the axle set back , but not as long a trailer as your Classic , and no esky mount.
you have all given me some good help in readiness for my upcoming trailer project. It'll be good to follow through with experimenting and feedback.
good luck with the balancing act Damo, 
are you still on for Karuah . will catch up there. might join you under that 7 x 7 with 20 other forum mates.



Last edited by groverK on Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:12 pm; edited 1 time in total


__________________________________________________
1993 K1100RS  0194321         Colour #690 Silk Blue  aka " Smurfette"
2018 Kart upgrade.
Trailer balancing..  Can i move the weight further to the rear? 10_x_110
    

RicK G

RicK G
admin
admin
Have a look at my setup when you get a chance or I can email a brochure and I will sell at a good discount for any forum members and if you bribe me with beer or bundy or JB or JD or good red you might get an even better deal.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 2004 K1200GT 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki
    

Rendrag

Rendrag
Silver member
Silver member
Thanks Ed, yeah, I am planning to move to LED lighting and a solar cell for daytime charging - that 90AH deep cycle will happily run anything I want to throw at it overnight, so long as I charge it up again via solar during the day.  But for now it's dragging the gas bottles along.  I have seen those little cartridge stoves, I just have enough trouble boiling water on the large burner on the bbq, didn't figure it'd be possible at all with those little itty bitty things?

Usual camping away is one or two days, lol I just like my comforts :-p   I used to just load the bike up and go, these days I'd rather by comfy..   (PS, for LOL's, Trailer balancing..  Can i move the weight further to the rear? Main.php?g2_view=core
 - my old XJ750 loaded up ready for a 10-day trip!  Was a great trip, though the 3000km service interval was kinda crap - had to service it twice on the trip!  Got some funny looks at the caravan park at the grampians, when I had my carbs apart for a clean on a tarp beside my tent :-p

Sway bars? THAT would be fantastic.. I did do a search for them when I got the trailer last year, but couldn't find anything available for bikes!

I like the look of Graeme's trailer better - the tub is more centered on the wheels, instead of having so much forward of the axles like on my mini tourer!

I might get out there this weekend, and re-jig the trailer loading a little so the battery and gas bottles are over the axle, and the tarps are at the back, and see how that weighs in...

Yep, definitely on for Karuah.. Trying to decide whether I should knock off work at say 3pm and head on up and camp friday night..  I'm told a bunch of folk get there friday for a relaxing Saturday?

Rick, don't suppose you're going to be at Karuah for me to look at your setup? Very Happy

Cheers,

DG


__________________________________________________
2000 VFR800
    

RicK G

RicK G
admin
admin
I will be there but wont have the Camper.
I will bring a few brochures down but as things are I don't want to carry too much because I wont have panniers on the trip down because I am picking up a set at Klompy's.
I own the patent or actually Pat pend at the moment so you wont see any others around.
I have the bits to make some here I will see if time permits before my back surgery.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 2004 K1200GT 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki
    

92KK 84WW Olaf

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
Lots of experience towing, and sailing and loading boats for cruising.

The first rule is the heavy items MUST go near the centre point, ie axle. Moving them away from the axle to the extremities hugely increases their effective weight when you corner or sway and you get that dreaded pendulum or sway effect that generally only has one outcome: disaster. Its that dreade principle of moments thing we tried to avoid learning in school. Therefore how you pack things is critical, as much as where you pack them. If you must have a 30kg battery then it needs to be set inside the trailer as near as possible over the axle and centred. If you have to, make a small frame to hold it in place or use a small plastic crate you can wedge into place. The heavier items should be put around it to keep the weight centred. Tarps are usually very heavy for their size, try and keep them midships too. You put all the heavy items in first, centred, check the weight on the draw bar, then use the lighter items to maintain the balance. Call me pedantic but that's the bottom line. You have to minimise the up and down and sideways movement. If you don't the tail wags the dog and you are not in control.

The second rule is the weight on the draw bar. You need to get it right. If its wrong you can lift rear wheel or force it down and cause a wheelie effect. You already are having that which affects your front braking. A luggage scales will allow you to check this until you get to the point where you can feel it. Hook it into the hitch and lift it.....

The third and often overlooked items is tyre pressures on both bike and trailer. Go by the book at first but also by your own feel. They need to be quite hard, err on the hard side when fully loaded. Again, if they are too soft you get more swaying.

Trailer weight can sometimes be reduced by finding tubeless tyres for it. If you find a major problem with weight you might have to reposition the trailer body on the trailer but that trailer would not appear to make this an option. The ideal is close to centred fore and aft over the axle so that the effect on cornering is as close to neutral as you can get. Remember it gets affected by crosswind and by the wind effect of passing vehicles so you need the lateral wind resistance to be balanced as well so that cross winds don't try to turn the trailer. Stuff loaded on top can upset the manufacturers calculations on this one so keep stuff snug against the top of the trailer. Don't be tempted to have different make tyres on the trailer wheels. It is legal but they should same make and size etc, an identical pair with identical tyre pressures.                                                                            

After that look at what you are bringing. I use a collapsible water container, only filled when I get to my destination. Saves space and weight. Rather than gas cylinders use the disposable cartridges, you get the regulators etc for them too. You save on the cylinder weight, better still buy them at your destination. Those two options probably save you 10kg on their own, more if you buy the gas at your destination. I have a gas BBQ, uses lava rock, the size of a 90A battery, it also will take in all the accessories inside the box which is like a toolbox but very light. Melamine ware is good too, nicer to use. LED lights mentioned by someone is good too, no need for gas lanterns. Might allow you to go for a smaller battery. Rechargeable ones are even better might allow you to eliminate the battery weight and space altogether and is the preferable option. You can get small ones that would fit on the bike and wire in power outlets to charge them while you are out on the bike by day. Use a solar charger for the days you are not. All in that's probably about 40kg off your weight list without loss of amenity. Of course if you need the battery for computers and dvd players......??? There are solar phone chargers.

There is a huge pleasure in towing a well balanced well set up trailer and rig, confidently doing a decent speed but one that is safe and feels safe too. Once you find the best positions etc it does become a simple matter.

I cant comment on the towing bike but have a feeling the K would be a nicer towing one.....


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 37,190 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 42,640 miles.

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

Rendrag

Rendrag
Silver member
Silver member
Rick: awesome, will be curious to see your flyers!

92: thanks for that!  I think most of the trailer weight is in that big fibreglass tub - it's probably half an inch thick fibreglass!  Just the lid itself is ~30kg

I'll re-fab the mounting board for the battery over the weekend and sit it smack in the middle of the axle, then repack everything!  The wheels are just little boat trailer wheels, so already really light.

Lol, yes the K was a much nicer tow bike.. Well, in a way.. The towbar had a bit of lateral wobble, so it got rather scary above 110k/h.  But it would happily pull away from 100k/h in top gear and accelerate smoothly.   The VFR might have 20kw more than the K100, but it's also doing 15Nm less, and holy stuff you notice it!  You need to be pulling at least 5000krpm to be accelerating, and above 100k/h, you need to be doing 6000rpm to maintain speed up hills (so 100k/h was 4th gear, down to third up hills).  That said, on the way back from FCR, on those crazy long straight roads, I was sitting behind hurricane Furchert doing 180k/h in top gear, pulling about 8000rpm, and it was pulling NICELY.  It is making me think about picking up my trailer build project again (put it down and left the bits I'd collected in the back of the garage, when this one came up for 1200 bucks last year!)  But I reckon I can build a decent little trailer for less than half the tare weight of this one!

--DG


__________________________________________________
2000 VFR800
    

92KK 84WW Olaf

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
I have an Erde 142 trailer I use for camping, tow behind the car. Its 95kg plus an ABS top, much same overall weight as yours all up.

180kmh towing is a bit awesome and way above what we would go. You need perfect balance for that and I mean perfect.

A possibly expensive option is change the 30kg top for aluminium but there is a cost in making it. A tarp top is good but no security so not worth it. The boat trailer wheels are as light as you will get. I would reckon cheapest option is go all rechargeable LED lighting and get a solar charger(s). The tail, fairing and underseat spaces would hold these while riding so you could recharge on the days you are out.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 37,190 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 42,640 miles.

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

RicK G

RicK G
admin
admin
One thing I do with tyres is use a 55% profile tyre the ones I use on any bike trailers I build are 155 x 55 x 13 and they can be towed without air quite safely for some considerable distance.  I started using them because I reckoned that they could be towed flat in an emergency or to get a few Ks to a place to repair them but when I built my first load share coupling I put it on my camper and went for a ride. It was great 140kph and wiggle the bars with no sway dragged the pegs through a few favorite corners then went to the brothers place to show off my invention then home, all up 55km.  next morning went out to the workshop and the trailer had a flat tyre. holy snapping duck shit I thought that was lucky then I found a very slow leak and figured it may have been flat when I left so I checked the tyre patterns in my driveways sandy bits and sure as eggs it was flat when I got home and when I left. So now I know they can be towed flat. There is only at most 15% of the weight they are designed to take so that is why. I definitely would not do it again by choice and would limit my speed to about 60kph.
I removed the tyre to repair the leak and there was absolutely no damage at all. It proved 2 things the main one is that my load share antisway couplings do work and my idea about the tyres was right and better than I figured.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 2004 K1200GT 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki
    

Rendrag

Rendrag
Silver member
Silver member
92KK K100LT 193214 wrote:I have an Erde 142 trailer I use for camping, tow behind the car. Its 95kg plus an ABS top, much same overall weight as yours all up.
Yeah, it's crazy heavy.. My big 7x5 caged trailer is only 250kg, so I was REALLY surprised when I put this one over the weighbridge for interest sake and saw how heavy it was!

92KK K100LT 193214 wrote:
180kmh towing is a bit awesome and way above what we would go. You need perfect balance for that and I mean perfect.

Yeah, took me a while to get up to that Wink

92KK K100LT 193214 wrote:
A possibly expensive option is change the 30kg top for aluminium but there is a cost in making it. A tarp top is good but no security so not worth it. The boat trailer wheels are as light as you will get. I would reckon cheapest option is go all rechargeable LED lighting and get a solar charger(s). The tail, fairing and underseat spaces would hold these while riding so you could recharge on the days you are out.

Yeah, but if I'm going to go to the effort of modifying this trailer that much, I may as well sell this and build my own!


__________________________________________________
2000 VFR800
    

Rendrag

Rendrag
Silver member
Silver member
Speaking of, what tyre pressures do folks run in their trailers?  The bloke I bought it off said he ran 12, or at most 15 if it was REALLY loaded..  Seems really low to me though, and it really squeaks on the painted concrete on our patio where it's stored..


__________________________________________________
2000 VFR800
    

92KK 84WW Olaf

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Life time member
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My Erde loaded up to 600kg is up at about 45psi [3bar], The K loaded I am about 38 [about 2.6bar], pillion as well 42 [about 2.8bar]. For bike towing I reckon minimum pressure is what you would have for a pillion.

I cannot imagine anything at 15psi, that would be too low and would sway all over the place. Maybe fine empty when you dont want it to bounce. It needs to feel like its on rails. But you need to check the tyres on the trailer, it should give the pressures on the sidewall, as well as the manufacture date. In EU its a four digit code which identifies the year and week or month of manufacture. I would think its going to be upwards of 30psi. Other thing, if the tyres are very old they will be very hard and horrible to tow even if the treads are good. Trailer tyres generally age rather than wear because there is no braking. Over 5 years is not legal here. For bikes I would not use one over 3 years old.

To be fair if you have been using those low pressures they will be the cause of a lot of your trouble. If you sort them and can get the weight on the draw bar to specs it will make a huge difference even before you look at what you have in the trailer.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 37,190 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 42,640 miles.

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

RicK G

RicK G
admin
admin
Those classic trailers use a 750kg suspension and no shock absorber so the tyres are recommended at 15lb and with the cross ply tyres that is not a good combination.
I use leaf spring with 2 leaves and Munroe gas shocks and they ride much better.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 2004 K1200GT 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki
    

92KK 84WW Olaf

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
You are right on that. Indespension units and 750kg and cross ply tyres is spot on but they do work ok. Its the exact same unit as on the Flying Fifteen trailer. But definitely not at 15psi, no way. It came with 30psi instructions and I use 32 unladen. But I bought it as a flat pack and it does what is was supposed to do and does it very well.

I still reckon even a bike trailer would be higher than 15, seems too soft and all over the place for me. One thing not mentioned is rear shock/s, needs to be firmish and in good order.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 37,190 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 42,640 miles.

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

AL-58

AL-58
Life time member
Life time member
You're probably right about the weight of the tub Damo.  All trailers are designed to have a bit more capacity ahead of the axle to keep positive weight on the drawbar, but once you add a heavy esky onto the drawbar as well it will bring that up again. My trailer has few problems, built it myself years ago but with lots of guidance from the teachers of vehicle body building where I work so we got the dimensions good from the start.  Stable up to 170kmh I know, but it's never been higher.

I agree about the K100 vs VFR thing.  Years back when I still had my first K100 I did some test rides at a dealer: VFR750, CBR1000, ST1100 Hondas.  I remember all the journos articles saying that the VFR had good torque, I was riding it going WTF?  I actually had to change down gears to overtake!!  At the end of the day I would have happily taken a CBR1000 home, neither of the others appealed.

When you talk about the lateral movement at the towbar, My TDM900 was the same when towing the Alilite camper, the trailer would wiggle about all the time, my own trailer(much lighter) never did it and the camper never played up behind the sidecar, with the exception of turning over a couple of times when the trailer itself had no load in it (made it a bit topheavy unloaded with the canvas on top)

Trailer balancing..  Can i move the weight further to the rear? 05042009022

Al


__________________________________________________
'87 K100RS/HRD sidecar (1100 motor)  sc25 

'87 K100RT with Paralever backend

"When I'm too old and too foolish to handle a sidecar I'll buy a Sportsbike"

Trailer balancing..  Can i move the weight further to the rear? K-dogs10
    

RicK G

RicK G
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Classic trailers state to put 15lb in the tyres to take up on the stiff suspension but that is not the correct pressure for the tyres and because they are crossplys the pressure has to be what is recommended by the manufacturer so they over heat where radial tyres can vary in pressure because that is the way they are made.

Classic also make most of the tow bars sold in Australia and to be honest they are JUNK in the extreme and don't even meet the Australian design rules in that they have about 60mm of transverse movement where the ADR specifically say no movement will be accepted and yet classic have approval so that shows how good the approval system is (there is none you just have to state that it meets the requirements).
I could go on for years about the crap that is sold in the trailer industry but we only have ourselves to blame when all we look at is price.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 2004 K1200GT 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki
    

92KK 84WW Olaf

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I must admit I could never see tyres being used at 15psi on a road trailer. I agree, they would get hot and overheat. The type of suspension only really works when its loaded, so maybe 15psi empty but IMHO definitely way more loaded up.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 37,190 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 42,640 miles.

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

AL-58

AL-58
Life time member
Life time member
Classic make most the towbars in OZ because they seem to be the only choice.  Who else makes them?  I want to put a towbar on my Super Tenere because it has so much torque it would hardly notice it, but there is no-one, not even Classic make one.  I guess that's a problem when you have bike that's not one of the top sellers.

Al


__________________________________________________
'87 K100RS/HRD sidecar (1100 motor)  sc25 

'87 K100RT with Paralever backend

"When I'm too old and too foolish to handle a sidecar I'll buy a Sportsbike"

Trailer balancing..  Can i move the weight further to the rear? K-dogs10
    

RicK G

RicK G
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Some time ago I was asked to make towbars by one of the larger bike trailer manufacturers and when I inquired about Public Liability Insurance was told $50000 and that was the cheaper one of only 2 insurers that would do the job.
That's why there is only one manufacturer and why they are so damn expensive.
One of the difficult things with building those type of accessories is that you need to be able to get the new models as they come out to make a sample and many dealers and importers are understandably not very willing to lend brand new new models out even for a few days.
I take absolutely no responsibility for what I am about say but the way I interpret the ADRs concerning towbars I can make one for myself and its probably legal but sell and I will be in the dodo over my head.  I had BSHE make mine (Brick Shit House Engineering) and it is rock solid which suits my load sharing anti-sway system very well.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 2004 K1200GT 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki
    

Ed

Ed
Life time member
Life time member
how difficult can it be balancing a trailer , especially one loaded with whiskey............  

Trailer balancing..  Can i move the weight further to the rear? 04110


__________________________________________________
1993 K1100RS  0194321         Colour #690 Silk Blue  aka " Smurfette"
2018 Kart upgrade.
Trailer balancing..  Can i move the weight further to the rear? 10_x_110
    

Rendrag

Rendrag
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Well bugger me, I bought a 40kg fish scale this morning, and pulled everything out of the trailer to weigh them.  I was WAY off on a lot of things.  Hilariously the only thing I over-estimated was the 90AH battery - that's 'only' 21kg, not the 30+ I thought it was.   Gas bottles are 9kg each (and are only half full, though they're 4kg not 2kg bottles), stove is 5kg, box of cooking stuff is 9kg.  All up (and before I put in the APAP machine, clothes, food, etc, it totals to 120kg!

Going to investigate those little cartridge cookers, and go to jaycar and get some new gel cell's for my flouro lanterns - I can save 28kg by doing away with the gas powered stuff!


__________________________________________________
2000 VFR800
    

RicK G

RicK G
admin
admin
How come you have a 90AH battery seems a bit on the large side.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 2004 K1200GT 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki
    

klamityboy

klamityboy
Gold member
Gold member
@RicK G wrote:How come you have a 90AH battery seems a bit on the large side.
Going out on a limb and guessing for the APAP machine?


__________________________________________________
Klamityboy
1991 K75RT-P

Model Description: K 75RT
Market: Europe
Type: 0565
E-Code: K569
Engine: 3_ZYL - 0,70l (55kW)
Transmission: Manual
Body Color: Polizeiweiss
Production Date: 30.08.1990
    

RicK G

RicK G
admin
admin
I use a CPAP which has very similar power requirements and I can run mine directly from the 30AH battery on the bike for 2 normal nights (8hours each) and it still starts the bike without any noticeable difference in cranking speed.
I did use it for 3 nights once and the battery survived to start the bike.
I use the Resmed 12volt power supply and not an inverter to feed the CPAP. An inverter uses 20% more power than it supplies.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 2004 K1200GT 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki
    

Ed

Ed
Life time member
Life time member
@Rendrag wrote:Well bugger me, I bought a 40kg fish scale this morning, and pulled everything out of the trailer to weigh them.  I was WAY off on a lot of things.  Hilariously the only thing I over-estimated was the 90AH battery - that's 'only' 21kg, not the 30+ I thought it was.   Gas bottles are 9kg each (and are only half full, though they're 4kg not 2kg bottles), stove is 5kg, box of cooking stuff is 9kg.  All up (and before I put in the APAP machine, clothes, food, etc, it totals to 120kg!

Going to investigate those little cartridge cookers, and go to jaycar and get some new gel cell's for my flouro lanterns - I can save 28kg by doing away with the gas powered stuff!
good on you Damo, turning green mate.
Gel cells still ad weight, solar shed lights work well ,except when you are doing fine needlepoint, they run for about 8 hours , motion sensored and recharge is cheap.
I'd be comfy to take one 2 - 3kg gas bottle for cooking my T- bones and for boiling water ( purely for bathing), and when considering sleeping arrangements , you know my thoughts regarding blow- ups...........

If we can just convince the young lad to give up his lavish camping habits for something a little less   .... well .......   like this,
Trailer balancing..  Can i move the weight further to the rear? Ps-20210
Hmmmm.......


__________________________________________________
1993 K1100RS  0194321         Colour #690 Silk Blue  aka " Smurfette"
2018 Kart upgrade.
Trailer balancing..  Can i move the weight further to the rear? 10_x_110
    

Rendrag

Rendrag
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Silver member
Wow rick, do you run a low pressure, and no humidifier??

I have the Resmed S9 Autoset (sits on 8cm H2O when I'm on my side, sits smack on 18 when I'm on my back), running EPR level 2, plus the H5i humidifier.  When it's > 25 degrees, the humidifier isn't using much power, so it does 0.5 amp when breathing out, and 2.5 amps when breathing in when I'm on my side.  When I'm on my back, it's doing 1 amp when breathing out, 4.5 amps when breathing in.  A 7 hour 'average' sleep pulls 16Ah out of the battery.  At Far Cairn when it was 2C overnight so the humidifier was running flat out bringing the air back up to 23C, it pulled 28Ah out of the battery.

I also charge my macbook, ipad, and two iphones (work and personal) overnight.  A full charge on each pulls 6Ah, 5Ah, and two lots of 2Ah which adds up to another 15Ah.  All up, I'm using somewhere between 31 and 38Ah per night.  On a two night camp, I wouldn't bother charging things on the second night, I'd let them charge while riding home!   Though I would like to find a small solar cell so I don't have as much worry about capacity..

Cheers,

DG


__________________________________________________
2000 VFR800
    

Ed

Ed
Life time member
Life time member
have you thought of mounting a solar panel to the top of the trailer, common practice with the grey nomads on campervans.


__________________________________________________
1993 K1100RS  0194321         Colour #690 Silk Blue  aka " Smurfette"
2018 Kart upgrade.
Trailer balancing..  Can i move the weight further to the rear? 10_x_110
    

Rendrag

Rendrag
Silver member
Silver member
groverK wrote:
good on you Damo, turning green mate.
Gel cells still ad weight, solar shed lights work well ,except when you are doing fine needlepoint, they run for about 8 hours , motion sensored and recharge is cheap.
I'd be comfy to take one 2 - 3kg gas bottle for cooking my T- bones and for boiling water ( purely for bathing), and when considering sleeping arrangements , you know my thoughts regarding blow- ups...........
Hadn't seen these shed lights before, might check them out!

I got two of the little butane stoves, would usually only use one, just nice to be able to boil water for a cuppa (or have the prawns on a separate hotplate for those who're allergic to them!), I bought the hoteplate and bag to go with one of them. Stove plus hotplate plus four butane bottles (And one in the stove already) in the bag is 4.2kg. Less than JUST my gas stove!

My lanterns are just on 1kg each (they're just a little 6v 4.5Ah gel cell), so with the two stoves, and now not having to carry the bbq and a frypan or the gas lanterns or the lantern poles, I've dropped 22kg!!

I used to use air mattresses, but repairing/replacing them was a continual task. Ended up buying one of the 'deluxe' (double the standard height) roman moon mats, wasn't cheap but it's insanely comfy, and it inflates itself. Never had a puncture in it either!

groverK wrote:If we can just convince the young lad to give up his lavish camping habits for something a little less   .... well .......   like this,Hmmmm.......

ROFL, this isn't lavish.. You should see how the missus likes to camp! We have a 3m x 9m three room dome tent, double-height inflatable queen mattress, it's all insanely painful to setup, but it's the only way she'll go camping :-p


__________________________________________________
2000 VFR800
    

Rendrag

Rendrag
Silver member
Silver member
groverK wrote:have you thought of mounting a solar panel to the top of the trailer, common practice with the grey nomads on campervans.

Funny you should ask that, I was looking at these 80W folding panels that jaycar had on clearance today while I was getting my gel cells, and wondering how I'd go mounting one on the trailer (or whether it'd survive inside the trailer and I'd just lay it out on the ground (like I've seen a few do at karuah) to charge during the day..


__________________________________________________
2000 VFR800
    

Ed

Ed
Life time member
Life time member
well done Damo , you're getting there.


__________________________________________________
1993 K1100RS  0194321         Colour #690 Silk Blue  aka " Smurfette"
2018 Kart upgrade.
Trailer balancing..  Can i move the weight further to the rear? 10_x_110
    

RicK G

RicK G
admin
admin
@Rendrag wrote:Wow rick, do you run a low pressure, and no humidifier??

I have the Resmed S9 Autoset (sits on 8cm H2O when I'm on my side, sits smack on 18 when I'm on my back), running EPR level 2, plus the H5i humidifier.  When it's > 25 degrees, the humidifier isn't using much power, so it does 0.5 amp when breathing out, and 2.5 amps when breathing in when I'm on my side.  When I'm on my back, it's doing 1 amp when breathing out, 4.5 amps when breathing in.  A 7 hour 'average' sleep pulls 16Ah out of the battery.  At Far Cairn when it was 2C overnight so the humidifier was running flat out bringing the air back up to 23C, it pulled 28Ah out of the battery.

I also charge my macbook, ipad, and two iphones (work and personal) overnight.  A full charge on each pulls 6Ah, 5Ah, and two lots of 2Ah which adds up to another 15Ah.  All up, I'm using somewhere between 31 and 38Ah per night.  On a two night camp, I wouldn't bother charging things on the second night, I'd let them charge while riding home!   Though I would like to find a small solar cell so I don't have as much worry about capacity..

Cheers,

DG


I run at 15 and no humidifier I can do without it for a few days My mouth gets a bit dry but when camping there are always several ways to get it nice and wet again.

Solar cells 4 burners ipad laptop is this camping we are discussing Very Happy .  I turn my phone off and disconnect the rest of the planet.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 2004 K1200GT 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki
    

Rendrag

Rendrag
Silver member
Silver member
@RicK G wrote:
I run at 15 and no humidifier I can do without it for a few days My mouth gets a bit dry but when camping there are always several ways to get it nice and wet again.

Solar cells 4 burners ipad laptop is this camping we are discussing Very Happy .  I turn my phone off and disconnect the rest of the planet.

Ahh that'd be nice, my mouth gets hellishly dry even with the humidifier on 5.5. I've always had that problem, but the forced air from the APAP makes it much worse!

Lol, that's one reason I love karuah - there's no phone reception, so I *can't* be on call! Even at Far Cairn, I ended up on a couple of 30-minute support calls with the ipad out doing remote desktop to work! Guess it comes with working for a hosting company Smile My kindle gets a workout when I'm camping though, so will want a charge! Notebook usually only comes out if I have a personal project to work on, or when I've finished a book and have to send the kindle the next book!

*grin* Guess we all have different versions of camping! I did the hiking+camping, and on-the-back-of-the-bike camping thing when I was younger, now I want to do it with comfort Wink


__________________________________________________
2000 VFR800
    

Gaz

Gaz
Life time member
Life time member
Hi Rendrag, just been reading this thread with interest as I am not a rider who is attracted to towing but the thread shows how we all enjoy our motorcycling in different ways and the ideas and info that come from our fellow enthusiasts is virtually limitless.
My avatar is of Ruth & I on the K1100 with all our camping gear on a 5 week, 12,000km round trip from Mudgee up through Qld to Darwin and back down the centre to home, so we are towards the other end of the spectrum to you in the camping stakes.
Hope we can meet up at Karuah.
Cheers


__________________________________________________
Gaz
1990 K75 6427509; 1987 R80G/S PD 6292136; 2010 G650GS ZW13381; 95 K1100LT 0232224
    

Rendrag

Rendrag
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Lol Gaz, how do you fit much more than clothes, with you and a pillion??  Though I guess if you were doing it light, a 2-man tent, two moon mats, and two duck down sleeping bags don't take much room at all! Very Happy

Yep, if you're goin to Karuah, I'll see ye there!  Look for the stupendously big tarp!  ROFL, Mick said he's got four coasties going up with him on Saturday, and to keep a nice big area for them to setup..   Easiest way to do that is put up the big 5x7 tarp Smile

Got the trailer re-packed, and she's sitting on 87kg now - much better!  Nowhere near as full either:

Trailer balancing..  Can i move the weight further to the rear? 1601268_10151992970357763_1643540860_n

It has 25kg down on the ball now, though I can change it to 4kg lighter by moving the tool bag to the other side of the battery, lol!  But I remembered that Rick said I wanted 10-15% of the trailer weight (so 20-30kg) on the ball, so I figure I can get that by having the bag at the front of the battery when the esky is empty, and behind the battery when I fill the esky, should work well!

Turns out my little cast iron frypan is 2.5kg, so I might see about getting something lighter before the weekend!

Rick: So what pressure do I want in my tires? I wasn't sure if it should be 15 because of the over-rated springs, or if I should be putting a 'normal' pressure in? (aka 30-35psi) .  If it makes a difference, it has little kumho 145/80r10 radials on it..


__________________________________________________
2000 VFR800
    

Rendrag

Rendrag
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Silver member
Oh, and for interest sake, it looks like the lid of the trailer weighs 12kg  - not that bad really..


__________________________________________________
2000 VFR800
    

RicK G

RicK G
admin
admin
The way to know about tyre pressures to run is that if it goes up 4psi when you are at operating temp then that is right if it doesn't go up by 4 then you have too much pressure and if by more then it's too low.
That is a general rule of thumb but you will find that the little classic trailers like yours will bounce a lot.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 2004 K1200GT 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki
    

92KK 84WW Olaf

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@RicK G wrote:The way to know about tyre pressures to run is that if it goes up 4psi when you are at operating temp then that is right if it doesn't go up by 4 then you have too much pressure and if by more then it's too low.
That is a general rule of thumb but you will find that the little classic trailers like yours will bounce a lot.

I have always used this too as a check for long trips. Get the tyre pressures right when you start, then after they have reached temperature recheck and see what the difference is. It is also very helpful if you ever find yourself having to top up the pressure in a warm tyre so you don't stop at the cold pressure reading when it of course should be higher.

Interesting to see the trailer contents in the context of what I take in the panniers and top box. But, having said that when I take the car I take the works!

That trailer is neat and with a reduction in weight of the gear might just allow a few more creature comforts.....The battery is by far the biggest weight item to be looking at.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 37,190 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 42,640 miles.

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

Ed

Ed
Life time member
Life time member
something from 92kk , regarding solar panels , and their benefits.
we are lucky in Oz , we have plenty of sun to operate these.


__________________________________________________
1993 K1100RS  0194321         Colour #690 Silk Blue  aka " Smurfette"
2018 Kart upgrade.
Trailer balancing..  Can i move the weight further to the rear? 10_x_110
    

Rendrag

Rendrag
Silver member
Silver member
Ok, dumb question.. How far would one need to go, to get the tyres 'up to temperature' ?  I pumped the trailer tyres up to 30psi, rode 15km to BCF, did some shopping, then rode home via the freeway (about 10km at 110k/h followed by 10km at 60/70/50k).  Got home, and the left tyre was still on 30, the right was on 31..  Was that not long enough to get them warm, or do I need way more than 30 in em? Smile  

Think I might throw my little 12v compressor in so I can adjust it if need be on the way to the rally!


__________________________________________________
2000 VFR800
    

RicK G

RicK G
admin
admin
Read my post, you need less pressure if the pressure does not go up 4 psi and more if it goes up more than 4psi


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 2004 K1200GT 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki
    

K75cster

K75cster
Life time member
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10 mins is plenty, was it loaded? try 20 psi and see if it changes the feel and temp of the tyres and aim for the 4psi higher after 10mins riding.


__________________________________________________
Keith - 1987 K75c with r100rt replica fairing and half of a 1984 K100rt 1992 K1100LT a blue one

The Clever are adept at extricating themselves from situations that the wise would have avoided from the outset - QUOTE from david Hillel in Out of the Earth.
    

Rendrag

Rendrag
Silver member
Silver member
Ahh, d'oh, wrong way round, ok, will drop them and give it another test ride tomorrow night after I've bled the brakes!


__________________________________________________
2000 VFR800
    

Ed

Ed
Life time member
Life time member
as this is more relevant to the technical side of things , thought I would add it here , for easier reference.
Hope Damien has progressed further with his weight balancing.

found this  recently, 
if anyone else may be contemplating adding a trailer to their K.


Trailer balancing..  Can i move the weight further to the rear? Pic_0224

the following is worth a read as well, for first timers like myself.

Pulling a trailer with a motorcycle

by sam  • July 19, 1993 • 5 Comments

Motorcycles by design are unable to carry copious amounts of luggage or cargo. Sidecars increase loading capacity and distribution of weight, but there is nothing better than a well manufactured trailer to alternatively load a motorcycle. The main problem with loading the back-seat of a motorcycle is improper weight distribution, wear and tear, and handling problems. With proper technique, design, and loading a trailer can be added to most motorcycles.

A quick perusal through most owners manuals will provide the famous words “Vehicle not manufactured for use with a sidecar or trailer” ” use of a sidecar/trailer can/will void warranty”. Obviously the addition of any accessory to a motorcycle must use caution, the manufacturers place these warning for reasons. The selection of a trailer would be an entire article by itself, what we will deal with here is the operation and techniques of trailering.


The hitch on the motorcycle should be sturdy (connected at least to four points on the bike). Hitches should not be connected to moving suspension components, swing-arms, shock-absorbers, or drive shafts for the obvious reasons. There should be no movement in the hitch. Hitch height should be at hub-level of the rear wheel. The distance between the rear wheel and the hitch should allow the rear wheel to move up and down unimpeded, but it should not be an excessive distance from the hub.


The best designs of trailers use the largest tire height possible and high speed bearings in the wheels. Beware the use of cheap lawn and garden tires on trailers. These types of tires are made soft and compliant so as not to damage lawns and are in no way recommended for highway use.


Trailers come in all shapes and sizes. A trailer should contain the following design features. A hitch assembly rated at a significant value higher than the gross vehicle weight of the trailer (total weight of the trailer). The trailer should have an axle width to tongue length of around 1 to 3 approximately. A significantly shorter trailer tongue will not track behind the motorcycle correctly, and a significantly longer trailer tongue will create cornering problems. There should be enough overhang to the rear of the trailer of the cargo area to allow proper loading. However, it should not be so great of overhang as to possibly drag the curb when leaving your favorite gas-stop.


A trailer is an alternative method of loading gear. A motorcycle has particular design characteristics that are being modified to allow the operator to carry more gear. As the operator you will have to decide how much is enough. A trailer is not a “blank check” to bring everything. Some simple rules for loading trailers is to take everything you would put on or in the bike and put it in the trailer instead. This is true alternative loading. Of course if you look down at the wide open maw of the emptiness of the trailer and start filling remember; the trailer total weight should be distributed over the axles so that the tongue weight is about 10 – 20 percent of the total weight of the trailer. Figure the total allowance of weight for the bike by looking in your owners manual. Add all the gear weight on the bike including passengers and riders. Don’t forget to add the tongue weight of the trailer. If you are in the positive and not overweight your doing good. If the amounts are over start shedding gear. Motorcycles are very finicky on how much weight they are moving.


Remember all of the weight (trailer, motorcycle, rider) is still going to be stopped by those same brakes, and accelerated by the same drive train. Depending on the weight of the trailer you choose to tow, all of the components on the motorcycle are going to wear a lot faster. Brakes and tires may be the most effected component on the motorcycle. Proper loading is going be the most important part of trailering because its going to effect every other part of the handling of the motorcycle.


When starting out and stopping a trailer you want to be as straight as possible. The degree of difference at the hitch between the trailer and motorcycle is going to create side forces on the motorcycle as it begins to move. The resistance to moving of the trailer will pull the bike over in the direction the trailer is. For an example if the motorcyclist stops with the trailer “kicked out” to the right the motorcycle will be pulled to the right as it begins to move forward. With the motorcycle and trailer in line the resistance will not effect balance. If the hitch is to high, and is mounted significantly over the level of the hub a lever of force will be created when starting out lightening the front wheel of the motorcycle. The resistance of the trailer creates this effect and steering wobble is usually the result. The effect of the trailer on the bike can be very slight or so severe a hazardous riding condition will result. No matter how well the trailer or bike is setup and designed the trailer will have some of these effects.


When stopping a motorcycle trailer combination allow increased room to stop. Only experience will show how much, but the increased weight being stopped of the bike and trailer will require more brake effort over longer distances. When stopping the bike should be kept as upright and straight as possible. The surge of the trailer forward as the bike stops should be directed as straight as possible through the bike. If the bike is leaned over and turning during braking the surge will have a tendency to push the bike over in the opposite direction, or push the rear wheel to the side. This effect can be minimal or severe depending on the amount of braking and the weight of the trailer.


If the hitch is set up wrong another problem can occur. On hitches that are above the rear hub of the motorcycle when braking the weight shift normal to stopping lightens the rear wheel. This effect will be exaggerated even more by a high hitch. Some trailer manufacturers attempt to engineer methods that lessen or do away with this effect by the way their trailers are made.
Another frightening effect can be the front wheel lightening on braking. Excessively heavy trailers on low slung hitches can lighten the front wheel and create a wobble when slowing. A simplification of the problem would be a five hundred pound trailer with fifty to sixty pounds of tongue weight. Most of the weight of the trailer during braking is being transmitted to the hitch. Depending on the degree of difference between the hitch and hub that weight can transmitted in a downward direction on the hitch increasing tongue weight significantly. The effect would be similar to a five hundred pound giant standing on your hitch while you try to balance and stop.


Depending on the weight and design of a trailer in slow speed turns it will tend to pull the bike aside in the direction of the turn. This effect will be dependent on the weight of the trailer and the resistance to rolling. In high-speed (highway turns) the trailer can track on the outside of the turn pulling the bike up-right. This effect is usually minimal but can drastically effect the operation of the motorcycle if the trailer is overloaded.


Obviously the motorcycle trailer combination is going to operate easier if it is properly maintained. Most trailer manufacturers have excellent suggestions on tire inflation, bearing care, and care of hitches. The problem usually lays in the operator not doing the recommended service. Tires fail and so do bearings. The operator is the final inspector for safety when a trailer goes out on the road. Most manufacturers recommend at least seasonal maintenance on bearings and side-wall pressure ratings of tires for fully loaded trailers. As part of your pre-ride inspection of your bike include the trailer and inspect every item just like you do on your bike. Include the hitch assembly depending on the type of hitch check for obvious problems and wear. On hitches try and insure proper lubrication and fit to the bike.


Safety chains should be included on all trailers. We all have heard the excuses for improper safety chains. Some riders state they would rather have the trailer “break away” in case of accident or massive failure. Some riders think that safety chains are not required on motorcycles. Most states require safety chains or cables. If the trailer “breaks away” where is it going to go and who is it going to hurt. Ultimately the rider is responsible for any damage his vehicle or trailer causes.
Safety chains should come in pairs and be attached to the frame of the trailer and motorcycle. Some states allow appropriate cables to substitute for chains, but check your local police for verification. Chains or cables should not drag the ground and should cradle the tongue if the hitch fails. Insure that the chains or cables are long enough to allow the bike to turn.


Trailers allow a motorcyclist to include the extra gear desired and not pile the bike high with everything. A trailer may be the way to entice the significant other to come along, lured by the charms of an opulent camp sight. The trailer allows a motorcyclist to bring “real” luggage when checking into a hotel. With proper technique and set up a trailer allows more flexibility for touring/grocery getting. The signs of shock from check out staff at the local grocer are excellent.



"Grover" (quote)
finally took the time to empty out the contents of my Kart today,after a trip up to the Karuah rally.
but before doing so , I thought I might grab some stats. So I did a "weigh in" on the tow ball hitch.

these are the results .

Ali lite trailer, with steel chassis, 10" inch high speed boat trailer wheels .
Specs :     Tare - unladen weight  =  55 kg
                GTM - Gross Trailer Mass  ( trailer + load)   =  Max - 200kg
                tyre pressure ( recommended ) = max 28 psi   , currently running on 20psi
               Towball hitch to axle = 1400mm ,  outside wheel width = 1100mm , total height = 750mm, total length = 1800mm


unladen weight ( once empty )   = 7.5kg ( 16lb ) at the ball. remember this is only a 55kg ( 121lb ) alloy trailer.

loaded weight ( moderate camping gear, no gas cylinders ) came in at  18kg ( 33lb) at the ball.


tried out some weights . using 5kg ( 11lb ) concrete pavers.

90KG load spread 2/3 to the rear over the axle. didn't change the ball weight much.    
 ball weight 18kg.
Trailer balancing..  Can i move the weight further to the rear? Kart_010 Trailer balancing..  Can i move the weight further to the rear? Kart_011



60kg load ,   50/50  load spread  front and rear.
ball weight 20kg.
 note how much difference it makes removing weight from the trailers rear, without adding extra to the front
Trailer balancing..  Can i move the weight further to the rear? Kart_012 Trailer balancing..  Can i move the weight further to the rear? Kart_013

I removed the final balance of weights from the rear , leaving only the 30kg on the front, (no pic ) scales tipped in at 22kg ( 48lb ) at the ball.

next job will be to check some gear and rough weights per item , just as Damo did with his fish scale. I can't imagine I'll come up with as much , but it'll be handy to know.

still need to lengthen the towbar upright stays by about 1.5 - 2 inches, to bring the hitch into a better horizontal plane. 
originally Damo had it mounted to the gearbox /frame bolt, it is currently down below the ABS.
Trailer balancing..  Can i move the weight further to the rear? Kart_015

Trailer balancing..  Can i move the weight further to the rear? Kart_014

At this stage , I would probably feel comfortable with a maximum load of 100kg , as this allows reasonable braking, and moderate speed during touring.


" Alby " (quote)
I will throw in my limited learnings here as well..  Grover has made it easily clear to see how the weight moved can change a lot of things.

The one thing Nicole and I found that made the best improvement to handleing was to have the line of push (as it were) from the tow hitch to tow bar on the same level as the centre of final drive/tow bar . This means when you use the engine or brakes to slow the force is pushing straight foward with the bike. not foward and up. Just as the extra 1.5 - 2 inches will do.

The small amount of height at the front of the trailer at rest is levelled out when the bike is loaded with our weight  (Goondiwindy on the way home after Narrrendarra/Dubbo)

Trailer balancing..  Can i move the weight further to the rear? Tow_li10

"Rick G" (quote)
Exactly right especially when braking so as not to lift weight from the rear wheel.


__________________________________________________
1993 K1100RS  0194321         Colour #690 Silk Blue  aka " Smurfette"
2018 Kart upgrade.
Trailer balancing..  Can i move the weight further to the rear? 10_x_110
    

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