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1Back to top Go down   Top engine bolt wont go in Empty Top engine bolt wont go in on Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:52 pm

touchwoodsden

touchwoodsden
Silver member
Silver member
I am fitting the Wasp subframe which is going to have my sidecar hung onto it.
For those who don’t know the subframe, it bulks onto the top engine mountings, the bolts on the side of the sump that take the crash bars on some models and onto the platform which takes the centre on-site stand assemblies.
Fitting has been relatively straightforward but I am having a problem getting the top right-hand engine bolt in, one which is threaded into the lug on the top of the engine block.
Ignore the subframe please because the subframe is only attached to the extremity of the engine.
The lug on the engine and look on the frame are a couple of millimetres out and I just can’t get them into line to get the bolt back in.
I have jacked the engine up which moves them more into line however the frame lug appears to still be a little too far forward.
I have slackened all the other engine bolts off but I still can’t get it in.
It came out without a problem and I have had it in and out a few times before but, when both of the top engine bolts are taken out the engine dropped slightly (couple of millimetres) and that appears to be the problem.
Is this a common problem and does anyone have any ideas?
I have tried slings and ratchet straps around the frame down tube that bolts to the top lug to try to pull it backwards while at the same time jacking the engine up but I just cannot get it to locate in the threaded part of the lug. Will go all the way in but just not catch the threads because it’s just that little bit out.
Is this a common problem and if so does anyone have any ideas?
I’ve tried jacking the engine all over the place but to no avail.
So far, I’ve spent almost 2 hours on this one bolt and I’m tearing my hair out (I didn’t have much to start with!)
Thanks for any suggestions.

    

2Back to top Go down   Top engine bolt wont go in Empty Re: Top engine bolt wont go in on Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:15 pm

KafeRacer

KafeRacer
Silver member
Silver member
I would be concerned something is bent/twisted.  I have dealt with a couple of frames and have not had any alignment problems.  You mentioned you loosend the other engine bolts, did you get all 5 bolts?  Also I would try taking to top bolt out of the rad, and check to make sure the little frame tab on head side of the frame (the little post that has the rubber donut on it that the lower rad support sits on) clears the aluminum coolant piece that the temp sensor and hose is on, as their is not much clearance there.

Cheers.


__________________________________________________
Dave Evans
'Kafe Racer'
kaferacer.wordpress.com

1990 K75RT
1985 K100 Kafe Racer
http://kaferacer.wordpress.com
    

3Back to top Go down   Top engine bolt wont go in Empty Re: Top engine bolt wont go in on Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:19 pm

Packo

Packo
Silver member
Silver member
I have had success previously by just griding a small taper onto the end of the bolt (then run the die over it). If it is close it may be just enough to line them up enough to get the first couple of threads to take and then it should pull into position. Also, if you have the bike supported from above eg from a chain block the weight of the engine may be dragging the frame out of alignment. Similar thing happened to me recently doing a very similar job.


__________________________________________________
______________
 
83 K100 HRD Outfit
77 R100RS
1992 K1100 Outfit
1983 K100
    

4Back to top Go down   Top engine bolt wont go in Empty Re: Top engine bolt wont go in on Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:48 pm

charlie99

charlie99
VIP
VIP
perhaps loosen all the other engine - frame bolts just a bit first

this may then let the engine move slightly in reference to the frame mounts

once you get that bolt in .....then do up all the others ?


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%OTop engine bolt wont go in Au-log10

'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
    

5Back to top Go down   Top engine bolt wont go in Empty Re: Top engine bolt wont go in on Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:51 pm

TacKler

TacKler
Life time member
Life time member
@charlie99 wrote:perhaps loosen all the other engine - frame bolts just a bit first

this may then let the engine move slightly in reference to the frame mounts

once you get that bolt in .....then do up all the others ?

No disrespect but that would have been my first option.


__________________________________________________
Red 1991 K75S
    

6Back to top Go down   Top engine bolt wont go in Empty Re: Top engine bolt wont go in on Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:09 pm

touchwoodsden

touchwoodsden
Silver member
Silver member
@TacKler wrote:
@charlie99 wrote:perhaps loosen all the other engine - frame bolts just a bit first

this may then let the engine move slightly in reference to the frame mounts

once you get that bolt in .....then do up all the others ?

No disrespect but that would have been my first option.
 I did that very early on

    

7Back to top Go down   Top engine bolt wont go in Empty Re: Top engine bolt wont go in on Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:47 pm

Crazy Frog

Crazy Frog
admin
admin
Doh!

I had exactly the same problem with the EML subframe.
I spent hours jacking up the engine without success. then....
I found that there is a washer between the engine and the frame and it slid down by 1/2mm. This was preventing the bolt to pass the frame part. Embarassed
I Realigned the washer with a screwdriver and the stud went in by just pushing it with my fingers.
Hope your problem is as simple as mine Very Happy


__________________________________________________
Top engine bolt wont go in Frog15Top engine bolt wont go in Logo2101986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML GT2 sidecar, 1999 K1200lt/Hannigan Astro Sport sidecar.
    

8Back to top Go down   Top engine bolt wont go in Empty Re: Top engine bolt wont go in on Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:51 pm

touchwoodsden

touchwoodsden
Silver member
Silver member
@Crazy Frog wrote:Doh!

I had exactly the same problem with the EML subframe.
I spent hours jacking up the engine without success. then....
I found that there is a washer between the engine and the frame and it slid down by 1/2mm. This was preventing the bolt to pass the frame part. Embarassed
I Realigned the washer with a screwdriver and the stud went in by just pushing it with my fingers.
Hope your problem is as simple as mine Very Happy
And so do I. Unfortunately, the bolt will go all the way in and into the aluminium casting lug but must be pressing on one side and can’t pick up the thread.
It appears that the thread doesn’t come all the way to the end of the casting lug but is counter bored for a short section.
The bolt will go into the counter bore but not pick up the thread.
As I said earlier, I’ve had it in and out several times and there is nothing to suggest that the thread is damaged in any way.
I think I’m going to try tapering the bolt slightly in the lathe

    

9Back to top Go down   Top engine bolt wont go in Empty Re: Top engine bolt wont go in on Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:21 pm

charlie99

charlie99
VIP
VIP
maybe run a tap through to clean up the start thread ..

just trying to help


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%OTop engine bolt wont go in Au-log10

'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
    

10Back to top Go down   Top engine bolt wont go in Empty Re: Top engine bolt wont go in on Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:53 am

touchwoodsden

touchwoodsden
Silver member
Silver member
@charlie99 wrote:maybe run a tap through to clean up the start thread ..

just trying to help
thought of that. Even thought of putting a helicoil in which I have in stock.
The thing is of course that it came out several times, it's not been damaged and therefore it should go back in so I don't know why it won't line up. Bugger bugger bugger

    

11Back to top Go down   Top engine bolt wont go in Empty Eureka on Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:03 am

touchwoodsden

touchwoodsden
Silver member
Silver member
I had an extra slightly longer allen bolt in stock. I machined first few threads off and tapered next few.
Went in 1st time. Not zackerly finger tight going in but in without too much grief eventually. Thanks for ideas guys

    

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