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1Back to top Go down   Battery Discharge Empty Battery Discharge on Sun Apr 19, 2015 3:07 pm

ShedBob

ShedBob
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Putting my 1984 K100RT non-ABS back on the road for the summer.
Over winter I've replaced the clutch plate, lubed the splines and changed the alternator seal, steering head bearings, fuel pipes and a service.
It started up fine and ran well but the battery needed a charge after the first ride-out and again a week after being recharged. Battery was an 8 yr old Odyssey so I assumed it was on the way out & bought a 30AH Motobatt from Motorworks. Fitted it last week and today it's flat too.
The bike runs well, all electrics work as they should.
An ammeter shows approx 0.4amp discharge with the ignition off. Pulling fuses makes no difference.
Given that the only implicated components removed over winter were the starter motor and the alternator would it be reasonable to suspect one or other to be the cause ? Bearing in mind that they both appear fully functional.
Do I hook up my ammeter in series and pull relays until the drainage drops ? The same with the starter / alternator.

Help people !

    

2Back to top Go down   Battery Discharge Empty Re: Battery Discharge on Sun Apr 19, 2015 3:23 pm

92KK 84WW Olaf

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What happens if you remove the starter relay? Does this stop the discharge?

Disconnect the alternator wires and see what happens...

As you have found the bike is starting and running ok it seems everything works.

At .4Amps discharge its 10 Amps in a day so your 30Ah battery will be completely flat in around 3 days.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 36,188  miles
    

3Back to top Go down   Battery Discharge Empty Re: Battery Discharge on Sun Apr 19, 2015 7:03 pm

robmack

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The only draw with the ignition off should be the clock, which amounts to 5mA or so. The suggestion about the start relay or even the start enable relay might be worth investigation. Have you added any farkles to the bike that would be directly connected to the battery (GPS, accessory charger, etc.)?


__________________________________________________
Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

4Back to top Go down   Battery Discharge Empty Re: Battery Discharge on Sun Apr 19, 2015 7:19 pm

92KK 84WW Olaf

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There was another thread like this recently and a relay was the problem.

Anything like gps, a charger, satnav  etc as Robmack mentioned would also draw a lot of power. .4A is about 5 watts [12v x 0.40A = 4.8W], its significant. Some USB chargers have a continuous draw if wired to a permanently live circuit.

If the relays [starter relay and load shed relay] don't throw up anything the alternator and starter would be a starting focus since you were in at those. But don't forget anything that might have been disturbed or a risk of pinching a wire.

My 84 K100RT was parked up outside for 6 weeks and fired up strongly, battery was in it and it wasn't topped up.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 36,188  miles
    

5Back to top Go down   Battery Discharge Empty Re: Battery Discharge on Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:30 pm

RicK G

RicK G
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VIP
Pull the plug from the rear of the alternator, that is the most likely place for a drain. If no drain change then proceed as others have suggested.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki
    

6Back to top Go down   Battery Discharge Empty Re: Battery Discharge on Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:35 am

charlie99

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good point rob


I wonder if the clock has gone and got corroded  and drawing far more than it should be ?

or another suggestion

could it be a lossy - corroded ignition switch ...ie partial connection to the park mode  for the illumination of the rear running lamp and above head light "parker  globe "  I wonder do they glow  slightly ...not noticed at daytime at all

interesting issue


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%OBattery Discharge Au-log10

'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
    

7Back to top Go down   Battery Discharge Empty Re: Battery Discharge on Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:54 am

Holister

Holister
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@ShedBob wrote:....
Do I hook up my ammeter in series and pull relays until the drainage drops ? The same with the starter / alternator.
Yes, but use the A connection first and not the µA or you could damage the meter if the current is too high.
And you need to make sure you get a good connection with the probes.


__________________________________________________

1989 K100RT     VIN  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN  0451808
  Battery Discharge Austra12    Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

8Back to top Go down   Battery Discharge Empty Re: Battery Discharge on Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:53 pm

ShedBob

ShedBob
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Thanks guys.
Got back at it tonight in a better frame of mind.
After blowing 3 fuses in my ammeter I realised that pulling fuse 3 dropped the current draw to zero and killed the clock. Disconnecting the alternator and the starter motor made no difference. Looked at the wiring diagram and saw that fuse 3 fed the clock and the flasher unit. Pulled the green flasher box out, disconnected it. Current draw dropped from 47mA to 4.7mA.
I reckon we're there ! I'll leave it off for a few days and see if the battery stays up.
Thanks chaps.

    

9Back to top Go down   Battery Discharge Empty Re: Battery Discharge on Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:14 pm

robmack

robmack
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I helped another member troubleshoot a battery drain problem but I didn't have a multimeter with an ammeter function to hand. What I did instead was wire two 2 Ohm, 5W resistors together in parallel. This produced one 1 Ohm 10W resistor. I hooked up this resistor in series with the main battery lead. I then measured the voltage drop across the resistor to tell me the current being drawn by the load on the battery. By Ohms law (I=E/R), the voltage read across the resistor should equal the current being drawn by the load, measured in Amperes. In your case, if you did this resistor trick, you would have measured 0.047 Volts with the problem and 0.0047 after pulling the flasher relay.


__________________________________________________
Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

10Back to top Go down   Battery Discharge Empty Re: Battery Discharge on Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:56 pm

Crazy Frog

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Good one Rob.

ShedBob: do you have a switch for the 4 way flashers? If yes, you should have a look at it. This is the reason why the flashers unit got permanent power.

For people who have a hard time understanding the basic of electrical (Amps. watts, Volts...) Here is a good site explaining the basics of the ohms law triangle.

Battery Discharge Dcp2310


__________________________________________________
Battery Discharge Frog15Battery Discharge Logo2101986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML GT2 sidecar, 1999 K1200lt/Hannigan Astro Sport sidecar.
    

11Back to top Go down   Battery Discharge Empty Re: Battery Discharge on Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:44 am

ShedBob

ShedBob
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Hi Mr Frog
Do you mean a hazard warning switch ?
ie one that flashes all 4 indicators at once.
If so, no I don't have such a thing. Only accessory is a BMW alarm that was last used in 1992.

Robbie ;-)

    

12Back to top Go down   Battery Discharge Empty Re: Battery Discharge on Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:56 pm

Crazy Frog

Crazy Frog
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@ShedBob wrote:Hi Mr Frog
Do you mean a hazard warning switch ?
ie one that flashes all 4 indicators at once.
If so, no I don't have such a thing. Only accessory is a BMW alarm that was last used in 1992.

Robbie ;-)

Yes I was talking about the hazard switch.
If you don't use the alarm system, I would advise to disconnect it for now it as this could drain the battery. It is always powered from the battery but goes to fuse #5 (physical location on the bike, 5th fuse down) when the flasher unit is fuse #4 on the diagram (physical location on the bike is 3rd fuse down).
If you are certain that the circuit drawing power is the flasher unit, you should disconnect the handle bar controls and see if it makes a difference. Who knows, you may have a problem in your handle bar controls and it may send a weak signal to the flasher unit.


__________________________________________________
Battery Discharge Frog15Battery Discharge Logo2101986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML GT2 sidecar, 1999 K1200lt/Hannigan Astro Sport sidecar.
    

13Back to top Go down   Battery Discharge Empty Re: Battery Discharge on Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:04 pm

indian036

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@ShedBob wrote:Hi Mr Frog
Love the polite form of address, though it bring to mind 'The Wind in the Willows'.

Bill


__________________________________________________
1985 K100RT  VIN 0028991  My original Very Happy   (Historic rego)
1985 K100RT  VIN 0029036  BOB the Blue Old Bike  (Historic rego)
1990 K100LT  VIN 0190452  Work in progress
1984 K100RT  VIN 0023022  Work needing lots of progress

1986 K100RT  VIN 0090542  Work needing lots and lots of progress
1993 K1100LT  VIN 0183046  Work in progress
1993 K75S  VIN 0213045  Newest toy, slightly non-original
    

14Back to top Go down   Battery Discharge Empty Re: Battery Discharge on Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:45 pm

ShedBob

ShedBob
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Got a second-hand flasher unit from Motorworks. New ones only available from BMW and are stupidly expensive.

Plugged it in and the current draw remains down at 4.1mA.
Looks good !

Pulled the guts out of the old one and there's a fair bit of corrosion on the circuit board so I'm assuming the current leak has been here.

    

15Back to top Go down   Battery Discharge Empty Re: Battery Discharge on Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:44 pm

ShedBob

ShedBob
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Aaaargh !
Pride cometh before a fall.
Problem not fixed. Fitted my secondhand indicator relay but set my meter to the wrong scale, thought the current draw was back down but it wasn't & I'm back where I started with a flat battery.
Today I have tried disconnecting all relays again, alternator again, handlebar switches, all individual indicators, entire instrument cluster (isn't it heavy !), alarm wiring, hazard flasher wiring and still I get a current draw. I even get a current loss when I disconnected the central earth point under the top frame rail.
Further investigation shows pin 15 on the indicator relay is weakly live when the unit is plugged in (0.4v) which in turn energises all the green / brown wires which work their way around to the various relays.
I'm starting to wonder if I either have a second dodgy indicator relay or there's a fault / break in the main loom.

Help !

Again !!!

    

16Back to top Go down   Battery Discharge Empty Re: Battery Discharge on Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:31 pm

Holister

Holister
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CF (Mr Frog to you Laughing ) suggested disconnecting the alarm. Have you done that?
I 'd be removing it completely seeing as it hasn't been used in decades.
There have been a couple of issues reported lately caused by old unused alarm systems. 
It has permanent power and connects to the flasher relay, so a prime suspect.

Also the fact that you don't have a hazard sw is something to look at. There are 2 wires (yelow/violet and blue/white) from the flasher relay to the hazard sw. If the switch is not there, where do the wires terminate?

Re voltage on pin 15 on the flasher. The green/brown wire on pin 15 goes to fuse 7 (which comes from the LSR) and then on to the horn relay, then the temp relay and then to the anti-theft connection. Does your LSR work as normal?

This may be a silly question but if the flasher relay is suspect... do the indicators work as normal? if so I'd be looking else where initially at least.

Your suggestion that there could be a break in the harness might be on-track.



Last edited by Kaptain Holister on Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:36 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)


__________________________________________________

1989 K100RT     VIN  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN  0451808
  Battery Discharge Austra12    Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

17Back to top Go down   Battery Discharge Empty Re: Battery Discharge on Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:37 pm

ShedBob

ShedBob
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Hi Mr Kaptain

Yes the alarm's disconnected.
The hazard flasher wiring goes to an OE socket on the loom but I cut the wires to take them out of the equation.
The LSR works in that the lights etc go off when you press the starter button.
The indicators all flash as intended.
It's getting progressively weirder the more I think about it !

Robbie

    

18Back to top Go down   Battery Discharge Empty Re: Battery Discharge on Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:14 am

Holister

Holister
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@ShedBob wrote:Hi Mr Kaptain

The hazard flasher wiring goes to an OE socket on the loom but I cut the wires to take them out of the equation.

Robbie
If that "OE socket" you mention is under the tank on the left, it's the Hazard Sw connector. All OE connectors are in the electrical box. (Edit: Heated grips connector is under the tank)

Where are you measuring the 0.4amp discharge?

Time to test the wiring for an earth leak somewhere.

Good luck



Last edited by Kaptain Holister on Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:26 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Edited info)


__________________________________________________

1989 K100RT     VIN  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN  0451808
  Battery Discharge Austra12    Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

19Back to top Go down   Battery Discharge Empty Re: Battery Discharge on Sun May 03, 2015 6:48 am

GerryP

GerryP
Silver member
Silver member
+1 on earths

Bad earths can do strange things. Shocked


__________________________________________________
Safe riding Cool,
Gerry Parnham


K1100LT (1993) in Silk Blue/Cream
http://gerryparnham.com
    

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