BMW K bikes (Bricks)

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Donaldo

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Hello there ya'all.
Anyone using a Siebenrock oil resistant clutch in their K? I want to install one in place of the OEM unit.
Do they grab? Feel like OEM? Any info would help me to make a decision.
...My weep hole is weeping again!!!
Thanx



Last edited by Donaldo on Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:44 am; edited 1 time in total

    

RicK G

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Don't waste your money. Fix the seal and if it does start leaking in the future you will see oil dripping from the hole in the intermediate housing long before it gets to the clutch.


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If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

Dai

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I definately agree with Rick. If you have a leaky seal and it's enough to get on the dry plate then it's a serious leak and you'll have to strip the bike anyway.


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'83 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec
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'78 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, '79 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,'93 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California,
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Donaldo

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Thanks guys...now imagine you were on a long trip far, far away from home and you sprung a leak. The bike starts to slip in fifth, then in fourth...the leak gets heavier and you are wondering if you can limp the many miles back home... is the Siebenrock worth the extra $90.00?
Last year I had such a leak and it wasn't long before slippage started. Thank god I was local at the time. Installed entire clutch pack, o-ring, rear main, trans seal and...3000 miles and 10 months later and guess what. Now I see a couple of drops after a ride but, so far, does not continue to leak unless ridden. I know it will need to be opened up again and I have been contemplating the "oil resistant" clutch. I bought the bike for long distance touring but am concerned about reliability in this area.
This bike has a history of weep hole leaks from what I can gather from reviewing the PO's records, and yes, he installed clutches - two years in a row. The bike has 74,061 miles on it now. The clutch has been changed three times to my knowledge, and now may need another.
BTW, I didn't do the work myself. A former Max BMW "certified" mechanic did it and it was expensive.

Your thoughts and comments are welcome.

    

RicK G

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Three times is far from normal. The rear main seal is usually fairly good but there is an O-ring that will often only last a few years as the heat effects them. Get a Viton O-ring they will stand up to the heat much better. After 3 clutches I would be making a very detailed investigation as to why this is happening. I see your point about being a long way from home but the brick clutches usually don't start to be effected till long after an oil leak is apparent. My K100 went 12 months before the clutch started slipping.


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If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

charlie99

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might be time to mention the washer behind the clutch basket from the output shaft - motor

if this was missing could create some seal- oring issues ?

just a thought


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'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

Donaldo

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Thanks Charlie and Rick I'll keep that in mind.

Anyone ever had any abnormal engine pressure issues with a K ?
If all parts are in there normally, I need to find the answer to what causes this condition.
Only then will I stop the problem from reoccurring.

Has anyone ever change out the breather system? As one possibility, could there be too much internal engine pressure?
I don't know if that is the case, however, I have taken the oil fill cap off and at idle there is pressure exiting the cap hole but it doesn't feel excessive (I don't really know what excessive is though). At 3,000rpm, there isn't any more pressure but it feels like a smoother blowing out rather than a "burlbing" - but again, it doesn't feel excessive enough to push out a rear main seal to me. ???

Another thing - I have read that the rear main needs to be protruding just a bit.
I read that BMW had an internal service bulletin back in 1997 revising rear seal replacement but I don't know how critical it is.
If the seal was placed in there flush each time by mistake, would it lead to a R main seal that is soon to leak???


The "mechanic" that replaced everything last year said that he could not find a leak...but the clutch was oiled and fluid was exiting the weep hole (not in great quantities).
I should have first required him to find the source of leakage and second to remedy the problem. I thought I hired a mechanic but instead hired a parts installer.
As of now, I have a motorcycle that is not going anywhere for the second summer in a row.

Any thoughts and suggestions on a possible solution to the puzzle are really appreciated.



Last edited by Donaldo on Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:35 am; edited 1 time in total

    

RicK G

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I am assuming the bike in the avatar is the one we are discussing, a K1100LT.
It's a good move to put the model and year in your signature line so each post has the info without having to remember to include it. There are major differences between models that aren't obvious to the untrained eye.

The K1100 has a fairly convoluted breather system for the crankcase and you need to remove the air filter box to see it easily and work on it.
Most bricks will falter and stall when you remove the filler cap from the rightside crankcase cover because the fuel injection gets swamped with air and no fuel. If your engine keeps running without the filler cap then there is probably a leak that has been compensated for in tuning or the breather has been blocked off because the PO didn't know how to fix it.
Excess crankcase pressure will cause seals to leak even new ones.
I would say that you have issues with the breather system that need to be fixed before you go any futher.


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If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

Donaldo

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Thanks for the info Rick. Yes I do own a 1996 K1100 LT and it is the one in the avatar pic.
I am suspecting the breather because all of those seals failing. Don't know what else it could be other than incorrect seal placement. (There well could be other reasons for frequent seal failures but, not being versed in all things mechanical, do not know what they could be.) I am just trying to use deductive reasoning.

Also, thanks for letting me know what should happen when the oil fill cap is unscrewed with the motor running. I didn't have another K around to compare it to.

Has anyone done a breather conversion such as the one shown below?
It was sent to me by a K11 Owners Group member a couple of weeks ago. It re-routes the breather and eliminates the accumulator. It also adds a PCV valve to the apparatus.
Any thoughts???


My understanding is that the bottom version is more correct.
From what I've read online, the guys that created this were trying to duplicate the K1200 engine breather set-up for the "problematic" K1100 breather.
Anyone done one of these with their K1100?


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1996 K1100 LT SE
    

RicK G

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I would be inclined to do it as in the first picture, I can see the second detup feeding a heap of air in at idle because the tubes at the front of the TBs draws from below the butterfly and the rear tubes from above the butterfly which would only draw once the throttle was opened a bit.


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If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

Donaldo

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The first method would certainly be easier.

BTW: My other option would be to just replace all breather hoses and accumulator apparatus to OEM spec.


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1996 K1100 LT SE
    

charlie99

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yep agree rick

I wouldn't be sending air laced with oil vapour into the bypass idle adjust screws ...would just clog up with either an old engine or with a few thousand kilometres on a newish engine

go with the first diagram for sure

good luck


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cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
    

RicK G

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Donaldo wrote:The first method would certainly be easier.

BTW: My other option would be to just replace all breather hoses and accumulator apparatus to OEM spec.
From memory the accumulator doesn't have any moving parts it just swirls the air and the oil drops to the bottom and returns to the crankcase.


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If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

Donaldo

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RicK G wrote:
Donaldo wrote:The first method would certainly be easier.

BTW: My other option would be to just replace all breather hoses and accumulator apparatus to OEM spec.
From memory the accumulator doesn't have any moving parts it just swirls the air and the oil drops to the bottom and returns to the crankcase.
From what I've been told, there is some kind of a sponge in there that gets cruded up with oil vapor and starts to disintegrate over the years...we shall see.


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1996 K1100 LT SE
    

Donaldo

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charlie99 wrote:yep agree rick

I wouldn't be sending air laced with oil vapour into the bypass idle adjust screws ...would just clog up with either an old engine or with a few thousand kilometres on a newish engine

go with the first diagram for sure

good luck
Thanks Charlie for your take on the matter. I guess this type of thing is a great way to find out about the K particularities...


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1996 K1100 LT SE
    

RicK G

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Donaldo wrote:
RicK G wrote:
Donaldo wrote:The first method would certainly be easier.

BTW: My other option would be to just replace all breather hoses and accumulator apparatus to OEM spec.
From memory the accumulator doesn't have any moving parts it just swirls the air and the oil drops to the bottom and returns to the crankcase.
From what I've been told, there is some kind of a sponge in there that gets cruded up with oil vapor and starts to disintegrate over the years...we shall see.
I must look into that a bit further maybe the sponge in mine got the heave ho which, considering what else had been done to it, wouldn't surprise me at all


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If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

Donaldo

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RicK G wrote:
Donaldo wrote:
RicK G wrote:
From memory the accumulator doesn't have any moving parts it just swirls the air and the oil drops to the bottom and returns to the crankcase.
From what I've been told, there is some kind of a sponge in there that gets cruded up with oil vapor and starts to disintegrate over the years...we shall see.
I must look into that a bit further maybe the sponge in mine got the heave ho which, considering what else had been done to it, wouldn't surprise me at all
From what I've read, you are probably better off with it out of there.


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1996 K1100 LT SE
    

RicK G

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I recall that when I was rebuilding the bike I was quite unimpressed at the separator and it's ability ti do a good job.


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If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

Donaldo

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I guess that's why when they built the K1200's, they went with a different system abandoning the separator/accumulator/conglobulator/failabrator...


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1996 K1100 LT SE
    

Donaldo

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I think BMW calls it a Cyclonic Separator. ....Or something like that.


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1996 K1100 LT SE
    

RicK G

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Most of those type of things come about because of the polution laws and most if not all vehicle manufacturers have experimented with that sort of thing with varing degrees of success and some amazing degrees of failure.


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If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

Tenox

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I have an oilproof clutchplate on my K100. Cost with delivery was about 230 euros. Bought it from Louis and can't remember for sure, but looking at they're stock now I think it is Siebenrock plate. Bought it because of the main seal leak occured on my bike and the fix was so hard to do, I wanted to give myself a little more time to drive without a fix next time the main seal goes kaputt. So fixed the seal and installed oilproof dry clutch. They say that this plate will last 2 times longer than normal plate if it stays dry. So it is a good alternative anyway I think. I used all the other parts of clutch from old setup and my clutch has worked very well now for over 11 000km. It feels just the same as normal clutch.

(And on the plus side, main seal has been OK also.)


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BMW K100RT Scrambler (86)
    

Donaldo

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Thanks for that Tenox. Still deciding what to do.


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1996 K1100 LT SE
    

Tenox

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It is said like this on Louis site about Siebenrock plate:


"IMPORTANT NOTICE:
In case of visible abrasion of the OEM pressure plates it is highly recommended to replace both plates. Otherwise excessive wear and even malfunctions of the Siebenrock dry clutch plate can occur."


Mine were fine so used the old ones as I said.


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BMW K100RT Scrambler (86)
    

Donaldo

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I only have about 3,000 miles on the parts so I shouldn't have a mating problem.


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1996 K1100 LT SE
    

26Back to top Go down    UPDATE on Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:43 pm

Donaldo

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Update: I got the leak fixed at Max BMW in North Hampton, NH. The problem was the trans output shaft seal. The clutch friction disc was replaced b'cause of contamination along with the usual seals and O ring. The bike runs great. I just came back from an overnight up in Vermont (850 miles and averaging almost 47 mpg on 87 octane).
The repair was very reasonable, esp in light of what was done and I have a 2 year parts and labor warranty, should it start leaking again during that time period, they will fix it for free.


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1996 K1100 LT SE
    

AL-58

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Donaldo wrote:I think BMW calls it a Cyclonic Separator. ....Or something like that.
Dyson supercharger?

Al


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'87 K100RS/HRD sidecar (1100 motor)sc25
'92 K100RS-16v (Paint it Black)

'87 K100RT with Paralever backend

"When I'm too old and too foolish to handle a sidecar I'll buy a Sportsbike"

    

brickrider

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You put 87 octane in your K-bike 😕 Don't most models have a CR of something like 11:1? I've been buying premium fuel for mine. Have I been wasting my money?


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Brickrider
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RicK G

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You haven't been wasting money, running 87 will cause detonation and that does a very efective job of destroying the nicasil bores. I use 98 in my K1100 and even the car a 730il, I get much better fuel consumption and more power.


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If everything seems under control then you aint goin fast enough:- Mario Andretti
Bikes 1986 K100RT, 1993 K1100 LT, 1994 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki X 2 & 1976 SR 500 Yamaha for now
    

Donaldo

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Kinda thot I'd get some feedback about the 87 octane.
Yeah, I've been listening for any kind of knock or "pinging" a'la R bikes but have heard nothing that sounds like pinging or knocking. The only thing I can think of is that the motor and exhaust are so loud that they could obscure any knocking sound...? Not sure.
BMW states that the K1100 should get mid-grade or better. Mid-grade would be something like 89 to 91 octane, US grading method.
I have been using 87 octane in my R90/6 too. I have the timing retarded a little and it does not ping or knock. It will only ping if the carbs are not synced properly and I am really pushing it at high speed on a hot and humid day up a steep hill in a headwind.
*One point about octane grading, the number is the MINIMUM octane rating, not the maximum rating so it could be higher and often is.
Last weekend, I got an average of 46+ mpg - almost 47mpg - on my 830+ mile trip after an oil change and switch to Mobil 1 15-50 and yes, 87 octane.
I am almost on empty so, just to compare, I will fill up with premium 93 octane this time and take the K out on the highway and really flog it. We'll see if there is any difference in performance.
I don't mind buying a higher grade gas if I am sure that it makes a difference in performance and that regular gas is harming the motor.
***Bottom line - If the motor was knocking, would you be able to hear it?***
And, has anyone reading this ever heard a K1100/K100 motor knock? Is it loud enough to hear over all the other noises while riding?
Thanx



Last edited by Donaldo on Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:07 am; edited 1 time in total


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1996 K1100 LT SE
    

Point-Seven-five

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Find a local source for no corn gas. It is 91 octane and eliminates all the bullshit caused by the moonshine in the other stuff. I am lucky in that I have two places to get it. One about 2 miles from home and another on my way home from work.

There are sites that tell where you can get no corn fuel. It is becoming more common as retailers are finding out that there are a lot of people who will pay a little more to gas up a special vehicle.


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Present:
1994 K75RT
1994 K75S
1992 K100RS

Past:
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

Donaldo

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Hey thanx Point, 'll check it out.


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1996 K1100 LT SE
    

brickrider

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"There are sites that tell where you can get no corn fuel. It is becoming more common as retailers are finding out that there are a lot of people who will pay a little more to gas up a special vehicle."

You're fortunate indeed if you have local sources that sell "pure gas" for a little more. Where I live the "pure gas" premium is sold at $1.00 more than the gas with 10% ethanol. Shocked That's a hell of a markup....


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Brickrider
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Point-Seven-five

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Right now, "a little more" is about $0.70 per gallon or $3.00 on a fill up for my brick. I use about two tanks of gas a week during the season here in western New York.


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Present:
1994 K75RT
1994 K75S
1992 K100RS

Past:
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

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