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1Back to top Go down   [solved]Flasher Module Problem Empty [solved]Flasher Module Problem on Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:01 pm

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
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The Flasher module on a recently acquired '88 K100RS SE has a problem with the right turn signals.

Operation of the left turn signals is correct, the left handlebar switch turns them on and the cancel switch on the right cancels them.

The hazard flasher switch works normally as well.

The problem is that the right handlebar switch turns on both right and left turn signals, and the cancel switch cancels them.

I have replaced the module with one from another bike and the signals all work properly.  When I take the faulty module to another bike the same problem happens on that bike.

As far as I can troubleshoot, the relays and the relay drivers are working properly, beyond that, I can't seem to figure out what is going on because of those 10 pin strips on the circuit board.  I have purcased a replacement, but at the price of these things, I would really like to fix it and put it in my spares stash.

Anybody seen this problem and fixed it?


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS
1988 K100RS SE

Past:
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

2Back to top Go down   [solved]Flasher Module Problem Empty Re: [solved]Flasher Module Problem on Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:56 am

RicK G

RicK G
VIP
VIP
That problem is the same as when fuse #7 is open circuit so it may be the tracks on the board that carry that power that are broken or dry solder.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki
    

3Back to top Go down   [solved]Flasher Module Problem Empty Re: [solved]Flasher Module Problem on Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:06 am

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
RickG,Thanks, I just looked at the circuits connected to pin #15 and the solder joints are good with the traces having conductivity and all the diodes working properly.  I guess it's back to the drawing board.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS
1988 K100RS SE

Past:
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

4Back to top Go down   [solved]Flasher Module Problem Empty Re: [solved]Flasher Module Problem on Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:10 pm

MartinW

MartinW
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Try multimeter comparison readings between the good one and the bad one.
Happy New Year regards Martin.


__________________________________________________
K75s Hybrid
    

5Back to top Go down   [solved]Flasher Module Problem Empty Relay on Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:17 pm

daveyson

daveyson
Life time member
Life time member
Does anything look overheated?  Maybe post photos.


__________________________________________________
11/1985 bmw k100rt (late model)  Vin. 0090567
    

6Back to top Go down   [solved]Flasher Module Problem Empty Re: [solved]Flasher Module Problem on Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:27 pm

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
Nothing is burnt or out of the ordinary.  All solder joints are good. 

I have spent at least an hour looking at the board through a 10x magnifier and haven't seen anything that could be causing a problem.

I have tested the function of all the diodes on the board and as far as I can tell they are all okay.

Because of those 3 white 10 pin terminal strips on the board I can't really trace the circuitry to see where things go.  Makes it hard to figure out what the circuit is doing.

I am getting some bizarre resistance readings around the 4093 IC(every pin has some continuity to every other pin).  Since it's a CMOS device and static sensitive and cheap to replace, I have ordered a replacement and should have it next week.  Until then, I am hoping that RBM will chime in with a suggestion or two.

Because of the CMOS stuff on the board, I'm hesitant about poking around in a good module.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS
1988 K100RS SE

Past:
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

7Back to top Go down   [solved]Flasher Module Problem Empty Relay on Tue Dec 31, 2019 6:08 pm

daveyson

daveyson
Life time member
Life time member
I have a spare flasher with a broken relay contact, I just got the same results for that IC

Only two of the readings were constant, the others were momentary.


__________________________________________________
11/1985 bmw k100rt (late model)  Vin. 0090567
    

8Back to top Go down   [solved]Flasher Module Problem Empty Re: [solved]Flasher Module Problem on Tue Dec 31, 2019 7:37 pm

charlie99

charlie99
VIP
VIP
if measuring anything cmos
make sure that the ground pin = common  is connected to an earth some where , then whatever will be safe

if the ic has a "b" after it, (suffix ) IT IS A BUFFERED VERSION AND IS QUITE RESILIENT .. often found with suffixes "b p "

good luck


__________________________________________________
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'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O[solved]Flasher Module Problem Au-log10

'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
    

9Back to top Go down   [solved]Flasher Module Problem Empty Relay on Tue Dec 31, 2019 7:41 pm

daveyson

daveyson
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Good to know, it does have BP at the end,  at least mine does.


__________________________________________________
11/1985 bmw k100rt (late model)  Vin. 0090567
    

10Back to top Go down   [solved]Flasher Module Problem Empty Re: [solved]Flasher Module Problem on Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:19 pm

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
Yes, it's buffered.  And the replacement is buffered as well.

I am suspecting that something internal to the IC is triggering both multivibrators when the right side is activated.  At least I hope so.  All the diodes surrounding the IC look to be okay, at least without pulling them all to test them away from the board.  I have to admit that my component level troubleshooting leaves a lot to be desired.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS
1988 K100RS SE

Past:
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

11Back to top Go down   [solved]Flasher Module Problem Empty Relay on Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:32 pm

daveyson

daveyson
Life time member
Life time member
Maybe something is supposed to cancel the left, but not working, just guessing.


__________________________________________________
11/1985 bmw k100rt (late model)  Vin. 0090567
    

12Back to top Go down   [solved]Flasher Module Problem Empty Re: [solved]Flasher Module Problem on Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:23 pm

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
Probably right about that, but the schematic is almost useless for figuring out what is going on.  Those 10 pin arrays make it impossible for me to trace the circuits.  It's supposed to be a couple of astable multivibrators, one for each side, but the circuits as shown don't make sense to me.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS
1988 K100RS SE

Past:
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

13Back to top Go down   [solved]Flasher Module Problem Empty Re: [solved]Flasher Module Problem on Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:48 pm

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
I've been working on this problem off and on since my incarceration.  Checked all the diodes, transistors, capacitors and all were good.  Changed the IC with the multiviberators with no improvement.

There is a Hex inverting Schmitt Trigger IC, HEF40106BP that didn't really look like it had anything to do with the directional signals, but out of desperation I replaced it.  Got it on ebay for $2+shipping.

Tested it this morning and the directional signals and hazard flashers now work properly.  The only function that I'm not sure about is the auto cancel which seems to be what the chip is supposed to do.  Since I don't rely on the auto cancel, I'm not going to lose sleep over not knowing if it works like it's supposed to.

The chip is located in the lower right hand corner when the connector is at the top. 

[solved]Flasher Module Problem Dscn3814


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS
1988 K100RS SE

Past:
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

14Back to top Go down   [solved]Flasher Module Problem Empty Re: [solved]Flasher Module Problem on Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:20 pm

volador

volador
Life time member
Life time member
Brilliant!
don't see a IC Component Socket

You de-soldered old and re-soldered new one in?

Doesn't the auto cancel just disengage turn signal after whatever the length of time? Or does moto need to be in motion?


__________________________________________________
1984 K100RS  1991 K100RS  Reap The Wild Wind... Ever Commute Is An Adventure
    

15Back to top Go down   [solved]Flasher Module Problem Empty Re: [solved]Flasher Module Problem on Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:04 pm

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
You have to unsolder the IC.  You don't want to use sockets in vehicle applications because the chips can vibrate out.  Unsoldering is a fussy job that requires a low wattage soldering iron, and a solder sucker to pull the melted solder out of the joint.  Too much heat or holding it too long and you can burn the trace off the circuit board.  Since the module doesn't work anyway, it's worth a try.

Signal cancellation is after the bike travels a distance of something like 600 meters which is measured by a circuit somewhere that gets a signal from the speedometer.  Since I don't see anything in the flasher that looks like a counter, I am guessing the count is done in the instrument cluster and a cancelling pulse is sent to the flasher.  I'm probably wrong, but it sounds good.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS
1988 K100RS SE

Past:
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

16Back to top Go down   [solved]Flasher Module Problem Empty Re: [solved]Flasher Module Problem on Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:49 pm

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
Per the owner manual it's about 210 meters to auto-cancel.

I could be just as wrong as you but I also think that the instrument cluster does the "math" and sends a kill signal to the flasher relay. (via the blue/green wire to flasher relay - probably a ground signal)


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

17Back to top Go down   [solved]Flasher Module Problem Empty Flasher on Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:54 pm

daveyson

daveyson
Life time member
Life time member
Good one.

How many watts the solder,  and how many max seconds maybe 3?

On my older bike cancelling is after say 10 seconds at speed, at low speeds about 200 meters, cause you don't want it to cancel if your stationary at a busy intersection, or traffic lights.


__________________________________________________
11/1985 bmw k100rt (late model)  Vin. 0090567
    

18Back to top Go down   [solved]Flasher Module Problem Empty Re: [solved]Flasher Module Problem on Tue Apr 14, 2020 8:23 pm

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
@daveyson wrote:Good one.

How many watts the solder,  and how many max seconds maybe 3?

On my older bike cancelling is after say 10 seconds at speed, at low speeds about 200 meters, cause you don't want it to cancel if your stationary at a busy intersection, or traffic lights.
I use a 30Watt soldering pencil.  You have to watch the joint to spot when the solder goes liquid and then get the nozzle of the bulb on it and let the bulb suck the solder out.  Takes a little practice to get the moves down.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/BRAND-NEW-30-WATT-ELECTRIC-PENCIL-SOLDERING-IRON-FREE-SHIPPING/132997855627?hash=item1ef74a398b:g:c3EAAOSwbYZXZCSm🇸🇨USPSFirstClass!14052!US!-1

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Desoldering-Bulb-for-Soldering-Irons-Solder-Removal-Tool/123253998185?epid=1312037125&hash=item1cb282c269:g:vNkAAOSwYUdbTNCo

There is no timer on the cancel, it's all based on distance.  As Duck mentioned about 200 meters.  I think that is where I came up with the 600 number I put down.  200 meters is 656 feet.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS
1988 K100RS SE

Past:
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

19Back to top Go down   [solved]Flasher Module Problem Empty Re: [solved]Flasher Module Problem on Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:19 pm

volador

volador
Life time member
Life time member
you sold me I'll take 2 
Thank you


__________________________________________________
1984 K100RS  1991 K100RS  Reap The Wild Wind... Ever Commute Is An Adventure
    

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