Hi all,  hopefully you can see the pictures,  I found this puddle under my 1992 K1100LT which has 46k miles on it. So I need to replace the water/oil pump seals but do i need to replace the pump shaft as a given or just see what it looks like? and do I need to replace the radiator cap as a given? also could some recommend what type of gasket sealant to use? I am in the UK currently on lock down and not working so was hoping not to spend a small fortune! anyway thank you for your help in advance stay safe and don`t crack up if you cant ride! K.

You don't learn the condition of the shaft until you take it out. On early Ks replacing the shaft is an almost dead certainty. Not sure on the K1100.

An option is Motorworks and an exchange pump, they take a deposit refunded when they get your one so you don't end up off road. Other option is buy complete repair kit and if your shaft is good it can be sold on.

92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:You don't learn the condition of the shaft until you take it out. On early Ks replacing the shaft is an almost dead certainty. Not sure on the K1100.

An option is Motorworks and an exchange pump, they take a deposit refunded when they get your one so you don't end up off road. Other option is buy complete repair kit and if your shaft is good it can be sold on.

Thanks Olaf
                The exchange may be the easiest option as i believe its tricky to fit the seals, I will contact Motorworks for a quote. K.

dakelvinator wrote:

92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:You don't learn the condition of the shaft until you take it out. On early Ks replacing the shaft is an almost dead certainty. Not sure on the K1100.

An option is Motorworks and an exchange pump, they take a deposit refunded when they get your one so you don't end up off road. Other option is buy complete repair kit and if your shaft is good it can be sold on.

Thanks Olaf
                The exchange may be the easiest option as i believe its tricky to fit the seals, I will contact Motorworks for a quote. K.

Hi Just had a chat with Motorworks sadly they don`t do the pump exchange anymore but they hope to be releasing a tool to sit the tricky seal soon. I will dismantle it and see if i need a new shaft who knows i might get lucky! K. 

I just got this kit from K model BMW parts. New shaft, oil seal, water seal, o rings, spacer and impeller about $250 aus dollars.  At our exchange rate it could be worth buying in Australia and shipping to UK.

Waz wrote:I just got this kit from K model BMW parts. New shaft, oil seal, water seal, o rings, spacer and impeller about $250 aus dollars.  At our exchange rate it could be worth buying in Australia and shipping to UK.

Thanks Ill look at that and see what the postage and time might be K.

Waz wrote:I just got this kit from K model BMW parts. New shaft, oil seal, water seal, o rings, spacer and impeller about $250 aus dollars.  At our exchange rate it could be worth buying in Australia and shipping to UK.

That's interesting never seen just the plain shaft, always a geared shaft as the complete part

Do you know the part number of plain shaft? You'll press old gear onto the new shaft?

Euro Moto Electrics USA  has complete rebuild kits

EME Pump Press Tool  if you don't have a matching socket or pipe or ...

Yes I will have to press the old gear onto the new shaft. Graeme at K model beemer bits gets the shafts made locally.

Hi everyone 
                 I have removed and dismantled my water and oil pump. All came off ok just manky dirty! the weep hole was full of crud and plenty of muck.  I just wanted to check a few things maybe some of you can answer the following: 
1)  would blue RTV sealant be ok to use? i noted it on an old tread on from hear, this link -  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pro-Seal-Blue-RTV-Silicone-Sealant-Instant-Gasket-85G-Cars-Van-Bikes-Engines/261826107512?hash=item3cf60d5878:g:M4sAAOSwwPhWjRAl

2) where the red large "o ring" goes on the engine block do i put sealant around this area? and if so on the back of the pump not the engine block?

I am going to reuse the shaft as it looks and feels ok, i noticed in one of the YouTube videos it points out where if damaged it would be non reusable. I will be ordering the seals on Tuesday and hopefully be back together next weekend. thanks you for your help and advice yet again! K.

BMW recommends 3-Bond Sealant 1084 when used recommend over-night cure

the blue RTV will do the job
a very thin bead around the red o-ring is not required but couldn't hurt

[url=http://www.kforum-tech.com/Downloads/K100-service-bulletins-and special-tools/bulletins.htm]Service Bulletin 2458[/url]

Threebond. Always Threebond. It out-performs any RTV sealant and costs around four times as much

when using the 3-Bond 1084 apply a thin bead on surface
mate your surfaces and hand tighten fasteners
let cure for 8-10 hours or over night if possible
final torque fasteners after cure

I urge you to read this before you get too far into the oil/coolant pump work:    https://ibmwr.org/index.php/2003/05/01/water-oil-pump-rebuild/

At first sight, this seems to be straightforward and not too complicated.  Don't be fooled.  This is a tricky job. Even following closely all the steps and cautionary notes, it can go wrong.  I attempted this a number of times and never succeeded until I polished the shaft with extra fine paper and compound, followed by plenty of lube for the reassembly.  That seal is very easy to damage, and you'll never be certain if you've done it right and proper until you put it all back together and run the bike.  If you take on this work with new parts  that may be a great advantage for you.  I hope so. 
If you begin this job with only one new ceramic seal in hand, I will say you're incredibly optimistic.  If you manage to do it on the first try, you are a deft mechanic indeed.  Good luck.

brickrider2 wrote:I urge you to read this before you get too far into the oil/coolant pump work:    https://ibmwr.org/index.php/2003/05/01/water-oil-pump-rebuild/

At first sight, this seems to be straightforward and not too complicated.  Don't be fooled.  This is a tricky job. Even following closely all the steps and cautionary notes, it can go wrong.  I attempted this a number of times and never succeeded until I polished the shaft with extra fine paper and compound, followed by plenty of lube for the reassembly.  That seal is very easy to damage, and you'll never be certain if you've done it right and proper until you put it all back together and run the bike.  You're taking on this with new parts, so that may be a great advantage for you.  I hope so. 
If you begin this job with only one new ceramic seal in hand, I will say you're incredibly optimistic.  If you manage to do it on the first try, you are a deft mechanic indeed.  Good luck.

Thank you I had not seen this very useful articulate! ill reading this a few times over the next few days! K.

Dai wrote:Threebond. Always Threebond. It out-performs any RTV sealant and costs around four times as much

Thanks 3 bond it is then!, cant find 1084 version on ebay or amazon  the number 1104 does this mean something or is it just an updated version?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-X-TUBE-3-BOND-THREEBOND-GASKET-SEALER-1104-NEO-TY-FZ-XJ-R1-TZ-YZ-CBR600-NOW/362608317001?hash=item546d23d249:g:W8UAAOSw5S5Z0o5t

OR

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Original-BMW-Sealant-Silicone-Three-Bond-3Bond-30ml-1209-for-BMW-07589062376/283763831756?hash=item4211a473cc:g:UEYAAOSwCbJeMvqa

again the number 1209? 
 Thanks again i really appreciate the support on this form K.

the 1209

ORIGINAL BMW Sealant Silicone Three Bond 3Bond 30ml 1209 for BMW - 07589062376

in the US the model number was changed to 3Bond 1084 used to be 1194 then 1184

volador wrote:the 1209

ORIGINAL BMW Sealant Silicone Three Bond 3Bond 30ml 1209 for BMW - 07589062376

in the US the aftermarket model number was changed to 3Bond 1084

Thank you Volador I will get that one 

here is the 3-bond 1184 on your side of the pond   eBay 3-Bond 1184

FYI from the 3-Bond web site

3-Bond Silicone sealant
1207, 1209, currently looks like '1211' Multipurpose low Viscosity silicone based liquid gasket. WHITE
Excellent oil resistance, used with solid sheet gaskets

vs.
3-Bond Solvent Liquid Gasket
'1184' Solvent based, Semi-drying, all purpose liquid gasket, oil resistant, chemical resistant. GRAY
3-Bond 1184 used to be 1194

either 1209 or 1184 will work
I have only used the 1184 solvent based for sealing oil sump cover and water/oil pump with over night cure

volador wrote:here is the 3-bond 1184 on your side of the pond   eBay 3-Bond 1184

FYI from the 3-Bond web site

3-Bond Silicone sealant
1207, 1209, currently looks like '1211' Multipurpose low Viscosity silicone based liquid gasket. WHITE
Excellent oil resistance, used with solid sheet gaskets

vs.
3-Bond Solvent Liquid Gasket
'1184' Solvent based, Semi-drying, all purpose liquid gasket, oil resistant, chemical resistant. GRAY
3-Bond 1184 used to be 1194

either 1209 or 1184 will work
I have only used the 1184 solvent based for sealing oil sump cover and water/oil pump with over night cure

Thanks for the Info Volador
                                       I have ordered the 1209 and am hoping to have everything i need by Friday, to put it back together at the weekend. I managed to remove the old seals off the pump yesterday. I just need to decrease the pump and tidy it up a little  for it to be ready for the new seals. Thanks again this forum is brilliant especially for daft people like me! K.

brickrider2 wrote:I urge you to read this before you get too far into the oil/coolant pump work:    https://ibmwr.org/index.php/2003/05/01/water-oil-pump-rebuild/

At first sight, this seems to be straightforward and not too complicated.  Don't be fooled.  This is a tricky job. Even following closely all the steps and cautionary notes, it can go wrong.  I attempted this a number of times and never succeeded until I polished the shaft with extra fine paper and compound, followed by plenty of lube for the reassembly.  That seal is very easy to damage, and you'll never be certain if you've done it right and proper until you put it all back together and run the bike.  If you take on this work with new parts  that may be a great advantage for you.  I hope so. 
If you begin this job with only one new ceramic seal in hand, I will say you're incredibly optimistic.  If you manage to do it on the first try, you are a deft mechanic indeed.  Good luck.

I was very fortunate to get hold of a few of the old style water seals from Motobins many years ago. 
Like most k100 owners, the threaded section of the shaft snapped when I tried to loosen the nut.
Took it to a local bike shop and the owner used a lathe? To replace the threaded section.
He also polished the shaft..haha...
Took me all of five minutes to press the water seal into place using a socket.
I used three bond 1204? Not certain, and six years after no leaks.
Not certain if it was luck, but the old seals don’t have a ceramic component.
If you can get hold of the original water seals, it is possible to reuse the original shaft.
Take care and good luck.

gabriel wrote:

brickrider2 wrote:I urge you to read this before you get too far into the oil/coolant pump work:    https://ibmwr.org/index.php/2003/05/01/water-oil-pump-rebuild/

At first sight, this seems to be straightforward and not too complicated.  Don't be fooled.  This is a tricky job. Even following closely all the steps and cautionary notes, it can go wrong.  I attempted this a number of times and never succeeded until I polished the shaft with extra fine paper and compound, followed by plenty of lube for the reassembly.  That seal is very easy to damage, and you'll never be certain if you've done it right and proper until you put it all back together and run the bike.  If you take on this work with new parts  that may be a great advantage for you.  I hope so. 
If you begin this job with only one new ceramic seal in hand, I will say you're incredibly optimistic.  If you manage to do it on the first try, you are a deft mechanic indeed.  Good luck.

I was very fortunate to get hold of a few of the old style water seals from Motobins many years ago. 
Like most k100 owners, the threaded section of the shaft snapped when I tried to loosen the nut.
Took it to a local bike shop and the owner used a lathe? To replace the threaded section.
He also polished the shaft..haha...
Took me all of five minutes to press the water seal into place using a socket.
I used three bond 1204? Not certain, and six years after no leaks.
Not certain if it was luck, but the old seals don’t have a ceramic component.
If you can get hold of the original water seals, it is possible to reuse the original shaft.
Take care and good luck.

Hi thankfully I managed it! I have now done about 150 miles over the last few weeks and so far so good. I did manage to reuse the old shaft and I used the ceramic seal. I used a prototype tool that has been developed by motobins which I think will be on sale soon, It worked very well however I did have a problem with the oil seal and ended up having to get a second set of seals (no fault of the tool just bad luck!) . When I first fitted the seals all went well and seated perfectly but when I went to put the shaft through it pop`ed out the oil seal! and I had no choice but to destroy both seals and start again! but second time around I fitted the oil seal and put the shaft through before fitting the ceramic seal (leaving enough clearance so no contact from the shaft and using 2 blocks of wood between the gear wheel and casing for support while seating the ceramic seal). I will try and post some pictures later hopefully that will help someone in the future. I was dreading this job! but thanks to the support and information on this forum its back together now    K.

I just taught I would put some pictures up if it might help someone else. I did have one issue I fitted the seals oil and water and all went well! but when I put the shaft in it pop`ed out the oil seal!! . I could not find a way to refit it, as the ceramic/water seal was in the way! so I ended up having to destroy both seals and start again! I could find no fault I had fitted the oil seal well and it was a nice fit I just drew the conclusion it was bad luck, a faulty seal or I pushed the shaft too hard (yes there was oil on it). So second time around I fitted the oil seal then before fitting the ceramic seal I pushed the shaft through and spaced it out using wood (masking tape to hold it in place) under the drive cog to give enough space so that when I was seating the ceramic seal there was no contact. Once I had seated the ceramic seal using a socket I removed the wood blocks and I then drew up the shaft through the ceramic seal put all back together and refitted the pump using 3 Bond sealant as recommend. I was probably a little generous with the 3 bond but I was careful not to block anything. I had a problem with air in the system at first and a faulty temp sensor which caused me a lot of worry as it was giving false readings before it eventually gave up! I replaced the temp sensor and the gauge was reading normal! (The wrong temp sensor was fitted to the bike I think it was a K100 sensor and the bike is A K1100). So its been on about a month now and I have probably done 150 miles and so far so good fingers crossed it will stay good

Great post, I must be honest & mention I too managed to pop out the oil seal when I installed the shaft - even though I’m 100% sure it was seated & the shaft was lubed. Second time around I applied a thin smear of Permatex 518 to the seal recess before pushing in a new oil seal to ensure it stayed there! 

I also used the Permatex 518 on the pump mounting faces rather than the normal dreibond/gasket goo kind of sealants etc as I find it (or Loctite 515) easier to work with and has short curing times. 

Regards

Dan

StandardK wrote:Great post, I must be honest & mention I too managed to pop out the oil seal when I installed the shaft - even though I’m 100% sure it was seated & the shaft was lubed. Second time around I applied a thin smear of Permatex 518 to the seal recess before pushing in a new oil seal to ensure it stayed there! 

I also used the Permatex 518 on the pump mounting faces rather than the normal dreibond/gasket goo kind of sealants etc as I find it (or Loctite 515) easier to work with and has short curing times. 

Regards

Dan

Thanks I forgot to mention (and you reminded me StandardK) I did put a small bit of Hafixs professional glue on the oil seal recess the second time around. I did test the glue using the old oil seal just to see if it caused any chemical damage by gluing it to a piece of alloy over night. I only used the smallest amount just to give a little extra support while pushing the shaft through.

Oil Seal glue test and First oil seal in (the one that pop`ed out)

Pump supported by wood ready for water seal. Egg box reminder where water pump bolts go!

Hi TO ALL Developed oil leak on casing booked it in my mechanic(i no longer have the facilities or the eyesight todo myself)Phonecall followed "When we took the cover off, the nut holding the impeller in place FELLOFF   and bolt loose.
Resulting in shaft being goosed.Q Has anyone ever seen /heard of this before.
Extra info.58000 miles still as factory fitted,no nasty noises no heating problems
Do you think i have a claim under warranty 

Well if your 1984 bike is untouched from new, then it is more than likely that the nut (fitted to the early models) would have 'fallen off' when an attempt was made to remove it. What would have actually happened is that the threaded end of the shaft would have sheared off, quite easily, as the nut was turned. That's why the shaft was 'goosed' - it was broken as dismantling was attempted, which is pretty much the norm. Replacement shaft, new impeller, and a bolt to replace the nut (the end of the shaft now has a female thread) are required.
If it had really just 'fallen off' then you'd probs have heard some sort of rattle whilst it was running!

Thanks chris,my poor choice of wording good to know its common and not just my bike,I would have expected higher milage though