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1Back to top Go down   1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice Empty 1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice on Tue May 12, 2020 5:43 am

wilbo

wilbo
Silver member
Silver member
Hello, I have the dreaded sprag clutch issue and no rocking of the bike in gear will release it.  Before I have to go internal I wanted to clarify a few things.  Some talk about using cleaning fluid but from what I read that is bikes with intermittent issue that can get them runing and hopefully clean everything up but I cant even get a start.  Can I clarify if I can fill the whole engine space up with cleaning fluid so it covers the sprag clutch and will hopefully remove any gunk/crap off it?  If anyone has tried this what was the best product (I am in the UK) how much did you need and how long did they leave it for?

Thanks in advance


__________________________________________________
Current Stable
1983 BMW K100
1996 BMW R100RT
2009 Honda CBF1000
2003 Aprilia RS250
1996 Kawasaki GPZ500s
1955 James Colonel 225cc
    

2Back to top Go down   1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice Empty Re: 1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice on Tue May 12, 2020 6:27 am

moriarti

moriarti
Life time member
Life time member
Hi Wilbo,In the event that you cant start/ride the bike youtube has some good videos, one shows removing the crankcase cover to gain access to apply cleaner.
As for cleaners,flushing oil or similar will work.Hopefully greater minds on forum 
will offer advise.PERSONALLY with the usual DISCLAIMER,i would drain engine oil
and fill to max with DIESEL shake tilt push etc DO NOT ATTEMPT TO START.Leave 
overnight drain.replace filter fill with flushing oil.and bump start if necessary.
Finally once running ok change engine oil to a DIESEL engine oil this will realy clean the internals.


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1984 k100 rs red/black VIN  0004449
    

3Back to top Go down   1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice Empty Sprag on Tue May 12, 2020 6:55 am

daveyson

daveyson
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Life time member
Don't fill the whole engine.

You can't start it with the key, but you should be able to roll start it. With engine oil and half a litre of diesel mixed in, you could let it idle for five minutes or so. Or the diesel engine oil idea sounds good too.


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11/1985 bmw k100rt (late model)  Vin. 0090567
    

4Back to top Go down   1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice Empty Re: 1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice on Tue May 12, 2020 7:09 am

caveman

caveman
Silver member
Silver member
I've heard of guys having sprag troubles from using synthetic oils; What are you using? How many miles on clock? Did it start acting up all the sudden or progressively get worse? Did it only act up when cold?

Research Rislone

    

5Back to top Go down   1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice Empty Re: 1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice on Tue May 12, 2020 7:54 am

moriarti

moriarti
Life time member
Life time member
Fuchs oils/lubricants uk.Whilst working on site i enquired (as you do)Whats the best oil for my K AND WHY.Quality Mineral oil MUST be used.NEVER!!NEVER!!use semy/full synthetic oil.They research it make it sell it and know more than me.
ME?,i do as i'm told,and its a damn site cheaper Very Happy


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1984 k100 rs red/black VIN  0004449
    

6Back to top Go down   1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice Empty Mobil 1 on Tue May 12, 2020 9:42 am

stanthomas

stanthomas
Silver member
Silver member
Others prefer full synthetic.

As do I. Mobil 1 for choice. Although my experience is with 70s air cooled bikes (airheads and Brits) and early water-cooled OHC car engines.

    

7Back to top Go down   1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice Empty Re: 1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice on Tue May 12, 2020 9:53 am

88

88
Life time member
Life time member
Post #74 on this thread shows you how to clean it by spraying carb cleaner or such. Just remove the Crank cover. Pictured is the k11/16v engine I hope it's the same on the 8v.


__________________________________________________
1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice Ir-log11 88....May contain nuts!1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice Ir-log11

"The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page." - St. Augustine from 1600 years ago & still true!

Bike: K100LT 1988. 0172363. AKA the Bullion Brick! Mods: k1100 screen and stands.
K1: 1990. 6374189. Custom Stealth Black paint.
    

8Back to top Go down   1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice Empty Re: 1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice on Tue May 12, 2020 11:11 am

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
I had the sprag start slipping on a 16V K100RS. Caused by using too much moly assembly paste when doing some work on the head.

If you can do a bump start, put a half liter of an engine cleaner like Seafoam(diesel fuel will probably work as well) in the crankcase with fresh oil.

Bump start the engine and go for an easy ride, this is not an Italian tune up.  After about 25 miles, stop, and change the oil and filter.  Use a good heavy duty diesel 15w40 oil.  I don't think Synthetic will hurt.  Shell Rotella T6 is good and can be had reasonably inexpensively.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS
1988 K100RS SE

Past:
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

9Back to top Go down   1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice Empty Re: 1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice on Tue May 12, 2020 6:46 pm

charlie99

charlie99
VIP
VIP
contact cleaner with a probe tube bent at about 90 degrees can reach into the oil filler hole , pointing the previously bent tube on the contact cleaner slightly towards the back of the motor -( from right angles ) and slightly up
can work

what your trying to do is swamp the sprag clutch outer drum , usually some of the fluid will penetrate the holes built into the outer drum which retains the sprag fingers , to release the gunk build up


just a short spray (about 2 seconds ) wait a few , then another spray of about 2 seconds then wait a few minutes (15 -20 ) before trying to start

the contact cleaner disperses the grunge collected in at least the area that you have sprayed ,

the high whatever content it is , evaporates quite readily and wont affect much anything else

I have done this quite a few times with success , usually after a longer than usual non riding period - or after a particularly cold spell - change in weather

in fact just last week again with the change in weather to pretty damn cold , and the low ride events associated with the corona lockdowns out here .


I am about to change the oil in the engine , as its reached its 5000k due date , to that diesel - petrol compatible engine oil available for the next oil change

in the past , by doing this , I haven't experienced sprag slips for some while after , of corse after doing the oil change a good run of a few hundred kilometres lets the cleaning action of the oils to work best

good luck !



.



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cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice Au-log10

'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
    

10Back to top Go down   1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice Empty fantastic advice on Thu May 14, 2020 7:01 am

wilbo

wilbo
Silver member
Silver member
Wow, some fantastic reponses and advice on here.  Regarding this issue I have a feeling it came about due to injector issues I was having, the bike had become a pig to start nearly flattening the battery every time I tried.  I had checked and changed the temp sensor and when I pulled the injectors I had one decent spray pattern, the rest were sticking and I had only just had them proffessionally cleaned in the last 500miles, I think I have been letting the bike sit to long.  I have had this hard starting issue twice and both times once I had the injectors cleaned it started and ran like a new bike for a short period of time.

Anyway the oil stunk of fuel as it was just washing down the bores so I drained oil replaced filter with 10w40 (and it was semi synthetic so I wont use that anymore!) and it was a horrible brown/white colour from the fuel mixed in it!

This bike has been a pain since day one!  Although it is 1986 I traced it via the frame number and it is actually a 1983 model that was used as a shop display bike until it was registered in the UK in 1986, it only has 30 odd thousand miles in reality on it but has had a clock changed due to them packing up.

As this model has the old sprag clutch design and the 6 rivet output shaft I may bite the bullet yet and try another engine.  Come on convince me to persevere!! 

Again a big thanks for all your thoughts on this forumn.  As an aside note as lockdown has lifted in the UK i managed a run out on my 1980 honda goldwing that I restored yesterday into the lake district where I live for my daily exercise, beautiful to be on two wheels again!


__________________________________________________
Current Stable
1983 BMW K100
1996 BMW R100RT
2009 Honda CBF1000
2003 Aprilia RS250
1996 Kawasaki GPZ500s
1955 James Colonel 225cc
    

11Back to top Go down   1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice Empty Re: 1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice on Thu May 14, 2020 10:24 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
I also have a 1983......its got the early camshafts and you are not going to find a later one having them. There is no comparison against the later engines. I have an 84 K100RT, later cams and its good but the 83 engine despite shortcomings is brilliant.

Open it up, change the sprag clutch and rear main seal as you are there and ride on grinning from ear to ear.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 37,190 miles
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles.
    

12Back to top Go down   1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice Empty Do I need to drain oil on the strip down? on Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:08 pm

wilbo

wilbo
Silver member
Silver member
Just asking as I now have wheel off, drive shaft out and having a brew before I tackle the next bit removing the gearbox.  I am going fully internal as they say!!  I would rather do a full strip and clean than run risk of a partial clean and I have time on my hands to do this.  I will do rear oil seal as also advised with bike being 37years old!

Anything else I should do whilst in back?


__________________________________________________
Current Stable
1983 BMW K100
1996 BMW R100RT
2009 Honda CBF1000
2003 Aprilia RS250
1996 Kawasaki GPZ500s
1955 James Colonel 225cc
    

13Back to top Go down   1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice Empty Re: 1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice on Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:20 pm

mike d

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Life time member
Life time member
Code:
I will do rear oil seal as also advised

And the 'O' ring while you are in there.

If you can get hold of some 8mm dia stud you can make up a couple of supports to help when removing/installing the gearbox.  Remove two mounting bolts and screw in the studs to act as 'rails'.

I have a couple in stainless plain bar, threaded just enough to get a good depth for support. The plain bar means no exposed thread to catch on the box.

Mike

    

14Back to top Go down   1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice Empty sprag clutch sorted no fuel pump now!! on Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:49 am

wilbo

wilbo
Silver member
Silver member
Right, this bike is killing me now!!  Sprag clutch cleaned and repaired and engine turning over beautifully.  Not starting though and noticed no sound in fuel tank, fuel low enough I could get crocodile clips on feed to it and I am getting 0 volts.  Checked tank connection took it off and cleaned it still no volts, even pulled cables out and tried on spare fuel pump I have nothing.  Swapped computer control units over as I have 2, nothing so I am thinking fuel pump relay, any ideas or other checks I should take first??


__________________________________________________
Current Stable
1983 BMW K100
1996 BMW R100RT
2009 Honda CBF1000
2003 Aprilia RS250
1996 Kawasaki GPZ500s
1955 James Colonel 225cc
    

15Back to top Go down   1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice Empty Re: 1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice on Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:42 am

mike d

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Life time member
Life time member
Have you checked the fuel pump connector that you would disconnect to remove the petrol tanks. It is a common fault that the female side opens up, giving a bad contact.

Mike

    

16Back to top Go down   1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice Empty Re: 1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice on Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:46 am

wilbo

wilbo
Silver member
Silver member
@mike d wrote:Have you checked the fuel pump connector that you would disconnect to remove the petrol tanks. It is a common fault that the female side opens up, giving a bad contact.

Mike
Hi Mike, I have now tested further and it is blowing the 7.5amp sixth fuse down.  I will tighten the under tank connections and also test for voltage with it disconnected.


__________________________________________________
Current Stable
1983 BMW K100
1996 BMW R100RT
2009 Honda CBF1000
2003 Aprilia RS250
1996 Kawasaki GPZ500s
1955 James Colonel 225cc
    

17Back to top Go down   1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice Empty Re: 1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice on Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:02 pm

wilbo

wilbo
Silver member
Silver member
2 stuck fuel pumps would you believe it!  Put them onto wooden blocks and direct 12v to them and they do nothing, I may try stripping one down to see if I can free one.


__________________________________________________
Current Stable
1983 BMW K100
1996 BMW R100RT
2009 Honda CBF1000
2003 Aprilia RS250
1996 Kawasaki GPZ500s
1955 James Colonel 225cc
    

18Back to top Go down   1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice Empty Re: 1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice on Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:26 pm

mike d

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
Positive progress!

You could try reversing the leads to see if a jolt backwards can free the pump.

Mike

    

19Back to top Go down   1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice Empty Re: 1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice on Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:32 pm

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
Probably wouldn't hurt to put some penetrating oil in the pump(from both directions) and let it soak overnight.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS
1988 K100RS SE

Past:
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

20Back to top Go down   1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice Empty Re: 1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice on Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:45 am

wilbo

wilbo
Silver member
Silver member
@Point-Seven-five wrote:Probably wouldn't hurt to put some penetrating oil in the pump(from both directions) and let it soak overnight.
Yes, I have done that overnight but its not playing today at moment, will leave for longer.  I have ordered another pump as if i can free one of these off I shall keep it as a spare.  This bike has been one of the classic stood around and lots of issues once retored.  Once I get it running again I am going to ride the tyres off it initially to see if I can get it to be reliable.

The biggest issue I have had with it has been fuel injectors, on my second professional clean.  I have fully cleaned fuel tank out again now and fresh fuel that was when I hit the sprag clutch issue!!  Glad thats sorted now.  Fuel injection reminds me why I like carb bikes!!  Simple!


__________________________________________________
Current Stable
1983 BMW K100
1996 BMW R100RT
2009 Honda CBF1000
2003 Aprilia RS250
1996 Kawasaki GPZ500s
1955 James Colonel 225cc
    

21Back to top Go down   1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice Empty Back up and running dont trust new parts!! on Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:05 am

wilbo

wilbo
Silver member
Silver member
Day 1 - So I thought I would post my final outcome to returning to running service.  My new fuel pump arrived and I fitted it, bike would not start or sound like it would even catch.  I pulled the injectors and found only 2 squirting fuel, took the all off cleaned them in work Laughing proved all flowing and put back on bike.  Bike would try to start and then die, did not like fast idle but when I cranked it with throttle fully open and then shut it off bike sounded like it was going to catch, just as battery was about to die it started so I kept it running jumped on it and did a quick 50miles with it running like a dream.

Day 2 - Went out to bike in garage on battery tender tried to start not interested or sound like going to catch, went through throttle on full then off and it started on about fifteenth attempt, again jumped on it and put another 50 miles, pulled plugs and good colour, checked injectors all squirting nicely.

Day 3 - Went out to bike and checked battery voltage which was good, tried to start once not interested then remembered I had put a new temperature sender on it over a year ago and these can cause starting issues, checked pin 10 and it was showing well out about 300ohms, remembered I still had old sender which had not failed but I changed as it is 37 years old and thought I will do a quick test pulled plug off one on bike and put it on the old one that was just hanging free and.......................bang starts first time and runs idles like a dream!!!  So I swapped my 37 year old one for my 12month old one and bike is officially happy and I have a running machine!!!  Moral of story if it aint broke dont try and fix it.........

Thanks for all the help and advice over my last escapade, maybe now I can enjoy my bike for a bit without wrenching on it and cursing electronics!!


__________________________________________________
Current Stable
1983 BMW K100
1996 BMW R100RT
2009 Honda CBF1000
2003 Aprilia RS250
1996 Kawasaki GPZ500s
1955 James Colonel 225cc
    

22Back to top Go down   1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice Empty Re: 1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice on Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:04 pm

moriarti

moriarti
Life time member
Life time member
Hi wilbo,a happy ending to a horror story,NICE,now for many happy miles lol!


__________________________________________________
1984 k100 rs red/black VIN  0004449
    

23Back to top Go down   1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice Empty Re: 1983 k100 dreaded sprag clutch advice on Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:12 pm

MartinW

MartinW
Life time member
Life time member
Temperature sensor faults can be caused by the application of thread tape or sealant. The sensor earths through the threads. The sealing is achieved with the soft metal washer. Dirty connections can also come into play, especially at the sensor which can cop a lot of road spray and crap.
Regards Martin.


__________________________________________________
K75s Hybrid
    

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