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1Back to top Go down   Fuel pump on the way out?? Empty Fuel pump on the way out?? on Thu May 14, 2020 5:41 am

Bonzo

Bonzo
Platinum member
Platinum member
Howdy folks,

The old 4v has really been running well lately. Words I used repeatedly when anyone ever talks to me about it and perhaps that has cursed it!

I was real low on fuel yesterday morning and so brimmed it with super unleaded. After around half an hour I pulled over to take a pic of the stunning view with the engine running and it just cut out. Tried restarting - no luck. Just kept turning over. Battery healthy - all the lights on the dash. I put it in gear and rolled it on to compression, turned it on and it started. Away I went and it never missed a beat the rest of the morning.

After work, I started it up and sat on the bike with it idling on 'choke' while I put my gloves on and it cut out. Same thing, wouldn't start. Bumped then it did and seemed fine. Went for a local spin just to check and notice it did 'miss' a couple of times - and once died while riding. Managed to get home by the usual 'bump'.

Does this indicate the fuel pump is on the way out (30 years + 58,000 miles)? 

New fuel filter last month and its been purring along great since.

Could it be that I copped a bad batch of fuel?

Also, during one of the stalls I'm sure I got a sniff of fuel.

UPDATE* Just been to the garage. Switched the ignition on - no fuel pump whirring. Typical that the tank is full of fuel  Evil or Very Mad

    

2Back to top Go down   Fuel pump on the way out?? Empty Re: Fuel pump on the way out?? on Thu May 14, 2020 6:00 am

Stumpy

Stumpy
Silver member
Silver member
I replaced my fuel pump at about 49,000 miles, I noticed a vast improvement on the starting, it took less time on the starter and runs a lot smoother. I bought my pump on eBay, not very expensive but worth the piece of mind.
I also had to replace the gauze filter and rubber mounting.



Last edited by Stumpy on Thu May 14, 2020 6:02 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Grammar and spelling)


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BMW K100RT 0095857
    

3Back to top Go down   Fuel pump on the way out?? Empty Re: Fuel pump on the way out?? on Thu May 14, 2020 6:16 am

Bonzo

Bonzo
Platinum member
Platinum member
@Stumpy wrote:I replaced my fuel pump at about 49,000 miles, I noticed a vast improvement on the starting, it took less time on the starter and runs a lot smoother. I bought my pump on eBay, not very expensive but worth the piece of mind.
I also had to replace the gauze filter and rubber mounting.
Cheers for that Stumpy.

There's a massive disparity in price for fuel pumps isn't there?

£168 new from Motorworks

Or £230 new on ebay  

Or £22.50 new on ebay

The cheapies look identical. Must be a catch?

    

4Back to top Go down   Fuel pump on the way out?? Empty Re: Fuel pump on the way out?? on Thu May 14, 2020 6:43 am

RicK G

RicK G
VIP
VIP
considering that it bump starts each time I would be looking for a bad connector, most likely the multi pin connector on the ECU.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki
    

5Back to top Go down   Fuel pump on the way out?? Empty Re: Fuel pump on the way out?? on Thu May 14, 2020 6:47 am

Bonzo

Bonzo
Platinum member
Platinum member
@RicK G wrote:considering that it bump starts each time I would be looking for a bad connector, most likely the multi pin connector on the ECU.
Cheers RicK,

See the update below original post. The pump isn't playing at all this morning. Completely silent when the key is turned.

    


7Back to top Go down   Fuel pump on the way out?? Empty Re: Fuel pump on the way out?? on Thu May 14, 2020 9:53 am

Stumpy

Stumpy
Silver member
Silver member



Last edited by Stumpy on Thu May 14, 2020 9:54 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Spelling)


__________________________________________________
BMW K100RT 0095857
    

8Back to top Go down   Fuel pump on the way out?? Empty Re: Fuel pump on the way out?? on Thu May 14, 2020 11:01 am

volador

volador
Life time member
Life time member
Regards Martin. be along shortly to confirm that Chi-com pump is tip top


__________________________________________________
1984 K100RS  1991 K100RS  Reap The Wild Wind... Ever Commute Is An Adventure
    

9Back to top Go down   Fuel pump on the way out?? Empty Re: Fuel pump on the way out?? on Thu May 14, 2020 2:10 pm

Arlina

Arlina
Life time member
Life time member
Had my share of non-running pumps , at the connector at the tank.
Replaced it with Superseal, and no problem after Smile

Example;

https://kojaycat.co.uk/4-Way-15mm-Series-Amp-Superseal-Connector


__________________________________________________
Fuel pump on the way out?? Eu-log10  K1100RS/LT - R1200RT - R1100RS (RIP) - Cagiva SST 350 Ala Verde - K75LT project
    

10Back to top Go down   Fuel pump on the way out?? Empty Re: Fuel pump on the way out?? on Thu May 14, 2020 2:27 pm

volador

volador
Life time member
Life time member
here is another alternative to the lady's

Easter Beaver Sumitomo TS090 Sealed Connectors

the 'Sumitomo Not in Catalog Male 4P Connector'  3/4 of the page down sleek discreet connector

get extra pins and seals

Fuel pump on the way out?? 5332-300420112339-3145709
Fuel pump on the way out?? 5332-300420112359-31471513


__________________________________________________
1984 K100RS  1991 K100RS  Reap The Wild Wind... Ever Commute Is An Adventure
    

11Back to top Go down   Fuel pump on the way out?? Empty Re: Fuel pump on the way out?? on Thu May 14, 2020 2:28 pm

Bonzo

Bonzo
Platinum member
Platinum member
Certainly cheaper than Motorworks - in fact cheaper than their s/h options.

Thanks for the link Stumpy. Just need to make sure mine isn't shot before I replace it.

    

12Back to top Go down   Fuel pump on the way out?? Empty Re: Fuel pump on the way out?? on Thu May 14, 2020 2:30 pm

Bonzo

Bonzo
Platinum member
Platinum member
@Arlina wrote:Had my share of non-running pumps , at the connector at the tank.
Replaced it with Superseal, and no problem after Smile

Example;

https://kojaycat.co.uk/4-Way-15mm-Series-Amp-Superseal-Connector
So the pump could be ok - just the connections?

Hmmm  Question

    

13Back to top Go down   Fuel pump on the way out?? Empty Re: Fuel pump on the way out?? on Thu May 14, 2020 2:42 pm

volador

volador
Life time member
Life time member
If you're running the OE Bosch 16121461576 52mm fuel pump your niggled at the wrong thing.
Pumps have been known to last 200K with regular use.

Clean the 4-pin connector and spread out the pins whilst awaiting new connector


__________________________________________________
1984 K100RS  1991 K100RS  Reap The Wild Wind... Ever Commute Is An Adventure
    

14Back to top Go down   Fuel pump on the way out?? Empty Re: Fuel pump on the way out?? on Thu May 14, 2020 3:02 pm

Bonzo

Bonzo
Platinum member
Platinum member
@volador wrote:If you're running the OE Bosch 16121461576 52mm fuel pump your niggled at the wrong thing.
Pumps have been known to last 200K with regular use.

Clean the 4-pin connector and spread out the pins whilst awaiting new connector

Cheers volador,

I'll try that before ordering a new pump. Have gone for a Superseal as recommended by Arlina (from ebay - that linked seller was closed due to Covid).

I'm glad I asked as I'm not sure how fuel pumps break. If they start playing up (as I described) or if they just stop.

Hopefully its just the wiring. We'll see next week.

Glad it happened locally too, though I do wish I hadn't have just brimmed the tank  Embarassed 

Thanks for your help you wonderful people  cheers

    

15Back to top Go down   Fuel pump on the way out?? Empty Re: Fuel pump on the way out?? on Thu May 14, 2020 4:16 pm

MartinW

MartinW
Life time member
Life time member
I've been running a Chicom copy for nearly three years, and I have replaced my OEM spare that I used to carry with another copy. It's been run under some pretty adverse conditions and is still fine. There are multiple copies out there and some are probably OK and some could be crap. Most of the OEM pumps that I have seen destroyed were caused either by ethanol laced fuel or rusted out internally probably from sitting.   http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,10054.msg86054.html#msg86054
Regards Martin.


__________________________________________________
K75s Hybrid
    

16Back to top Go down   Fuel pump on the way out?? Empty Re: Fuel pump on the way out?? on Thu May 14, 2020 4:51 pm

Bonzo

Bonzo
Platinum member
Platinum member
Interesting reading.

Thanks Martin  Fuel pump on the way out?? 112350

    

17Back to top Go down   Fuel pump on the way out?? Empty Re: Fuel pump on the way out?? on Fri May 15, 2020 3:12 pm

brickrider2

brickrider2
Life time member
Life time member


__________________________________________________
1996 K1100LT
    

18Back to top Go down   Fuel pump on the way out?? Empty Re: Fuel pump on the way out?? on Fri May 15, 2020 4:38 pm

nino

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
I've been running a Chicom copy for nearly three years, and I have replaced my OEM spare that I used to carry with another copy. It's been run under some pretty adverse conditions and is still fine.




I have Aliexpress pump branded Pabokay for two years without any problem. Price was 20 US dollars.
Its 100 percent like original Bosch. I believe Bosch sold whole pump production line and tools to some chinese factory. Every pump on the market could be chinese easily.
Prices very different off course

    

19Back to top Go down   Fuel pump on the way out?? Empty Re: Fuel pump on the way out?? on Fri May 15, 2020 5:47 pm

MartinW

MartinW
Life time member
Life time member
There are at least three different inlet styles on the bottom of the pump, the rest of the pumps are indistinguishable from the OEM pump. The Pabokay is a direct copy and the two Global ones I bought are both different in the inlets.
Regards Martin.
Fuel pump on the way out?? Fuel_p10
Global Type 1                            OEM and Pabokay


__________________________________________________
K75s Hybrid
    

20Back to top Go down   Fuel pump on the way out?? Empty Re: Fuel pump on the way out?? on Fri May 15, 2020 6:00 pm

brickrider2

brickrider2
Life time member
Life time member
Not to hijack this threat, but my bike gets noisy when the fuel is low.  There is a high pitched ringing in the tank that I assume is the fuel pump as it is uncovered by gas.  Is this normal? or, should I look for a better grade of ear plugs?


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1996 K1100LT
    

21Back to top Go down   Fuel pump on the way out?? Empty Pump on Fri May 15, 2020 6:12 pm

daveyson

daveyson
Life time member
Life time member
How low do you go?

Mine stays the same, but I try not to let it get under quarter full,  guessing its better for the pump. Maybe look inside when it gets noisy.


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11/1985 bmw k100rt (late model)  Vin. 0090567
    

22Back to top Go down   Fuel pump on the way out?? Empty Re: Fuel pump on the way out?? on Fri May 15, 2020 6:52 pm

MartinW

MartinW
Life time member
Life time member
Some are noisier than others and the noise will increase running a low level of fuel. The OEM pump on mine was a lot noisier the Chinese one. We did a 1400 Km three day run last year in 40 C + temperatures and when I got really low on fuel at one stage the pump noise did increase.
Regards Martin.


__________________________________________________
K75s Hybrid
    

23Back to top Go down   Fuel pump on the way out?? Empty Re: Fuel pump on the way out?? on Fri May 15, 2020 7:55 pm

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
Life time member
@brickrider2 wrote:There is a high pitched ringing in the tank that I assume is the fuel pump as it is uncovered by gas.  Is this normal?
It is normal and a modification to make it less likely to occur was contrived. It's here.


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 77,000 miles
Fuel pump on the way out?? Usa-lo10
    

24Back to top Go down   Fuel pump on the way out?? Empty Re: Fuel pump on the way out?? on Sat May 16, 2020 6:43 am

Bonzo

Bonzo
Platinum member
Platinum member
@RicK G wrote:considering that it bump starts each time I would be looking for a bad connector, most likely the multi pin connector on the ECU.
It seems RicK G is nearer the mark than I first thought. Cheers mate  Fuel pump on the way out?? 112350

This morning I have disconnected, cleaned & reconnected the Motronic and we have lift off. A nice healthy fuel pump whirr when the key is turned and the engine fires up cheers

I'll be honest, I think there's more to it that just that. I think the problem may be related to the ABS 'brain' - but I won't go into that here, I'll open that chapter another day should the issue resurface.

I have ordered a new Pobokay pump to keep as a back up spare on Martin W's recommendation.

Really appreciate the input from you guys.

Worship

    

25Back to top Go down   Fuel pump on the way out?? Empty Re: Fuel pump on the way out?? on Sun May 17, 2020 4:38 am

volador

volador
Life time member
Life time member
since you have cleared the Motronic memory by disconnecting the connector plug should do the same with ABS ECU

disconnect ABS brain for 24 to 48 hrs better yet to completely discharge any stored data and start anew


__________________________________________________
1984 K100RS  1991 K100RS  Reap The Wild Wind... Ever Commute Is An Adventure
    

26Back to top Go down   Fuel pump on the way out?? Empty Re: Fuel pump on the way out?? on Sun May 17, 2020 5:21 am

Bonzo

Bonzo
Platinum member
Platinum member
I rode 60-70 miles yesterday, stop/start, switch off/on and it performed faultlessly apart from one stop. Upon turning the key the fan instantly kicked in and the bike wouldn't start (presumably because the ECU cut the fuel injectors?).

This has happened a few times before and I can only get the bike started by either removing/replacing fuse #5 or dis/re-connecting the Motronic connector (clearing the memory). So there's clearly an ongoing issue somewhere.

    

27Back to top Go down   Fuel pump on the way out?? Empty Re: Fuel pump on the way out?? on Sun May 17, 2020 9:02 am

geharper

geharper
active member
active member
@Bonzo wrote:I rode 60-70 miles yesterday, stop/start, switch off/on and it performed faultlessly apart from one stop. Upon turning the key the fan instantly kicked in and the bike wouldn't start (presumably because the ECU cut the fuel injectors?).

This has happened a few times before and I can only get the bike started by either removing/replacing fuse #5 or dis/re-connecting the Motronic connector (clearing the memory). So there's clearly an ongoing issue somewhere.
In the process of troubleshooting my anti-theft sensor under the seat of my K-100, it appears that the sensor prevents a start by causing an over-temperature fault, which I think should also activate the cooling fan, but mine did not.  As a precaution, I tested the cooling fan circuitry and all is well, but I replaced the cooling fan relay anyway since I don't recall ever hearing the fan run and I already had the relay box exposed.   I also found that the fuel pump was not running and have ordered a new one.   The pump vibration dampner and inlet screen had deteriorated, which probably caused the pump to seize from drawing in debris.   Still waiting on the inlet screen.

    

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