BMW K bikes (Bricks)

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1Back to top Go down   Down Shifting Trouble Empty Down Shifting Trouble Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:54 pm

tjh1985

tjh1985
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I have a 1985 K100rs and I've had problems downshifting for awhile.

1. The bike shifts up and down smoothly and the start of a ride, but once I get some time on the bike suddenly down shifting become clunky. I'll pull the clutch in and try and down shift and the foot lever wont budge. I'll release the clutch and try again and the bike usually will down shift as it should. Sometimes it won't and I'll have to repeat the process until it shifts down.

2. I've found that if I pull the clutch in and rev the throttle then downshift it won't stick, but I don't understand why that allows it to downshift easier.

3. When the bike is cool at the start of the ride, moving it from 1st gear into neutral is easy, but after 10 minutes riding the bike won't go into neutral from first gear - it either is stuck in 1st and won't shift up or it shifts directly from 1st to 2nd gear, and skips neutral. If I turn the bike off I can immediately slip it into neutral with no issues.

I've broken my gear shift rod a half dozen times because of this issue. I've gotten really good at getting home in 3rd gear.

Anyone else run into this or have a solution?

Thanks so much,

Thomas

    

2Back to top Go down   Down Shifting Trouble Empty Gears Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:14 pm

daveyson

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The first thing to check is that you don't have too much free play on your clutch cable, then it won't be releasing enough after you pull the clutch in. Hopefully you only have to adjust the clutch cable.

Difficult downshifting is also a typical sign that the splines need to be lubed.

Revving before down shifting means less work for the synchro's in the gear box. If you get good at knowing which revs to change at, you can change gears without using the clutch, so you can get home in fifth gear until you fix it.


__________________________________________________
11/1985 bmw k100rt (late model)  Vin. 0090567
 ~120,000 km
    

3Back to top Go down   Down Shifting Trouble Empty Re: Down Shifting Trouble Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:15 am

Rick G

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Gear shift rod? do you mean the clutch actuating rod down the centre of the main input shaft?


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 2004 K1200GT 1998 K1100 LT, 1986 K75 GS.
    

4Back to top Go down   Down Shifting Trouble Empty Re: Down Shifting Trouble Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:43 am

Arlina

Arlina
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After all above, did in some service the oil of the gearbox and final drive ever been replaced?
Gearbox; 0.8 liter
Final; 0.3 liter
Try synthetic gear oil 75W140


__________________________________________________
Down Shifting Trouble Eu-log10  K1100RS/LT - R1200RT - R1100RS (RIP) - Cagiva SST 350 Ala Verde - K75LT project - K75 Schurgers - K75S
    

5Back to top Go down   Down Shifting Trouble Empty Re: Down Shifting Trouble Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:54 am

Laitch

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Arlina wrote:After all above, did in some service the oil of the gearbox and final drive ever been replaced?
Gearbox; 0.8 liter
Final; 0.3 liter
Try synthetic gear oil 75W140
Arlina's suggestion is something often neglected. When were the transmission input shaft splines and the clutch disc hub splines last lubricated? Dry splines on those components can cause exactly what you're describing. Breaking either the shifter or the clutch actuating rod multiple times is quite a feat.  cheers


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 81,000 miles
Down Shifting Trouble Usa-lo10
    

6Back to top Go down   Down Shifting Trouble Empty Re: Down Shifting Trouble Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:26 pm

Jibe

Jibe
Silver member
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Sounds like it's time to order a tube of honda moly 77 to me....... Dry clutch spline and while your there do the bevel splines too. More expensive than gold but worth it's weight.

    

7Back to top Go down   Down Shifting Trouble Empty Appreciating the responses Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:11 pm

tjh1985

tjh1985
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UPDATE #1:

I should have mentioned that my K100 is a custom cafe bike now so it has a shift rod connected to the shifter and that's what I keep breaking.

Because I have after-market levers I know my clutch is not set to specs - I can't find a proper clutch lever that will receive the K100 clutch cable properly, so I've had to drill out a large area in the AM lever I have for the end of the clutch to fit, bit it's a shit-show for sure and I need a better solution - any suggestions on where to find an AM clutch lever that's specific to the K-bikes clutch cable?

I'd like to replace the gearbox and final drive oil, but don't have any experience doing that - can anyone point me to a DYI video?

I've had the splines lubed and that did not fix the issue.

    

8Back to top Go down   Down Shifting Trouble Empty This is the piece I keep breaking Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:16 pm

tjh1985

tjh1985
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Down Shifting Trouble Img_2912

    

9Back to top Go down   Down Shifting Trouble Empty Re: Down Shifting Trouble Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:51 pm

Laitch

Laitch
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tjh1985 wrote:Because I have after-market levers I know my clutch is not set to specs 
Are you indicating that your aftermarket clutch lever has no freeplay adjustment at the lever? That seems unlikely. Tell us the brand and model of the lever. The cable connection to the clutch lever at the transmission is adjusted by means of a lock-bolt arrangement.


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 81,000 miles
Down Shifting Trouble Usa-lo10
    

10Back to top Go down   Down Shifting Trouble Empty AM Clutch Lever Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:56 pm

tjh1985

tjh1985
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The AM clutch lever does have free play adjustment, but I've not found an adjustment setting that has resolved the downshift locking up. The issue I've had is the the K clutch cable nipple is larger in circumference drilled into the AM clutch lever so I've and to drill out the opening to fit the K nipple - I'm not sure if this is helping to screw things up or not.


The AM levers I have are the GZYF Motorcycle Short Brake Clutch Levers


Her is a pic of them


Down Shifting Trouble Screen10

    

11Back to top Go down   Down Shifting Trouble Empty Re: Down Shifting Trouble Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:01 pm

MartinW

MartinW
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With using a non OEM lever you might not be getting enough travel on the clutch cable. This would definitely cause shifting problems. Check to see if you are fully activating the clutch.
Regards Martin.


__________________________________________________
K75s Hybrid
    

12Back to top Go down   Down Shifting Trouble Empty Re: Down Shifting Trouble Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:50 pm

Laitch

Laitch
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MartinW wrote:With using a non OEM lever you might not be getting enough travel on the clutch cable. 
Martin has nailed it. Thanks for the info.
 
To compound the problem, you chose a short lever configuration which was likely designed to work with a hydraulic clutch setup. There are a couple of levers out there that work, from what I've read. To find them you'll need to sift through the Customization archives of this site and Motobrick, to name just a couple of resources. If you find some examples, send the customizer a personal message asking for details if the threads you find don't have enough. The 2V Bricks are basic mechanical clutches that need enough leverage to go the distance. They are useful for building grip strength. Smile

Your choice is unlikely to fill the bill.


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 81,000 miles
Down Shifting Trouble Usa-lo10
    

13Back to top Go down   Down Shifting Trouble Empty Re: Down Shifting Trouble Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:55 pm

Rick G

Rick G
admin
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Is that a 6mm thread and 10mm nut where it has broken? From what I can see it is so send it back and get a refund because it is unfit for purpose the way it has been welded and the size and considering it is stainless. The angle it works at is another cause.
You probably paid heaps for it too.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 2004 K1200GT 1998 K1100 LT, 1986 K75 GS.
    

14Back to top Go down   Down Shifting Trouble Empty Re: Down Shifting Trouble Thu Jul 29, 2021 2:09 am

MartinW

MartinW
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+1 on what Rick has stated. It looks poorly designed and executed. More pictures might clarify the setup.
Regards Martin.


__________________________________________________
K75s Hybrid
    

15Back to top Go down   Down Shifting Trouble Empty UPDATE #2 Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:33 pm

tjh1985

tjh1985
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Silver member
Appreciate the input and suggestions here. I'll work to get more images of the rats nest that is this issue ASAP.

Thomas

    

16Back to top Go down   Down Shifting Trouble Empty Re: Down Shifting Trouble Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:19 pm

charlie99

charlie99
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MartinW wrote:With using a non OEM lever you might not be getting enough travel on the clutch cable. This would definitely cause shifting problems. Check to see if you are fully activating the clutch.
Regards Martin.


down shifting issues are usually associated with dry splines on the clutch plate - input shaft to the gearbox 

can make a fair bit of difference


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%ODown Shifting Trouble Au-log10

'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
    

17Back to top Go down   Down Shifting Trouble Empty Re: Down Shifting Trouble Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:20 am

Arlina

Arlina
Moderator
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Might wanna take a book how to work on tour K Smile

https://mega.nz/folder/PmYCESAD#C1e0ijnsfDwqzH_evEOK2Q


__________________________________________________
Down Shifting Trouble Eu-log10  K1100RS/LT - R1200RT - R1100RS (RIP) - Cagiva SST 350 Ala Verde - K75LT project - K75 Schurgers - K75S
    

18Back to top Go down   Down Shifting Trouble Empty UPDATE #4 Clutch Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:43 pm

tjh1985

tjh1985
Silver member
Silver member
UPDATE 4:

Well I found a shift linkage rod that has enough (maybe a little too much) curve in it to work for my custom rearset, but I'm having some trouble setting it properly so that when I shift up or down it shifts properly. I am finding that when it's all assembled the lowest gear I can get to is 2nd and the highest gear I can get to is 3rd. Not sure what I'm doing wrong. Any insights?

Thomas

I will send pics in a little bit

Thomas

    

19Back to top Go down   Down Shifting Trouble Empty Re: Down Shifting Trouble Sat Aug 28, 2021 2:11 am

poddy

poddy
Silver member
Silver member
Jezz now you got me stuffed. I always thought the gear shift lever returns to the same neutral position after a gear change (wether up or down). So I'm confussed about you not getting 1st,4th & 5th. Maybe your problems are a bit deeper. Martin is a fountain of knowledge so his insites are worth investigating. I'll go with Charlie Regards Poddy

    

20Back to top Go down   Down Shifting Trouble Empty Re: Down Shifting Trouble Sat Aug 28, 2021 2:22 am

yankeeone

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I would put the stock shift leaver on at this point and try that.
 When you described the problem originally , that sounded like dry input shaft splines. I have had that issue before.

    

21Back to top Go down   Down Shifting Trouble Empty Re: Down Shifting Trouble Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:39 am

charlie99

charlie99
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tjh1985 wrote:UPDATE 4:

Well I found a shift linkage rod that has enough (maybe a little too much) curve in it to work for my custom rearset, but I'm having some trouble setting it properly so that when I shift up or down it shifts properly. I am finding that when it's all assembled the lowest gear I can get to is 2nd and the highest gear I can get to is 3rd. Not sure what I'm doing wrong. Any insights?

Thomas

I will send pics in a little bit

Thomas
hmm '

sounds like the paul (sp?) that pulls and pushes the gear selector drum isnt moving far enough in either direction to engage the next change ,  but you did turn the input shaft whilst trying to change gears ?   other wise the gears them selves wont mesh on the dogs correctly allowing the next change 

alternatively you have the old selector drum cam issue , where the cam is moving on the selector drum due to a broken - worn locating pin making the selector drum pins that catch the paul out of reach for the next action 
 seen that a few times


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%ODown Shifting Trouble Au-log10

'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
    

22Back to top Go down   Down Shifting Trouble Empty Re: Down Shifting Trouble Sun Aug 29, 2021 6:26 am

Dai

Dai
Life time member
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pawl Very Happy


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec, 1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

23Back to top Go down   Down Shifting Trouble Empty Re: Down Shifting Trouble Sun Aug 29, 2021 12:52 pm

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
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charlie99 wrote:. . . but you did turn the input shaft whilst trying to change gears ?   other wise the gears them selves wont mesh on the dogs correctly allowing the next change 
cheers

Until the shifter and peg plate setup is returned to stock configuration as Rick G suggested in one of the other threads you've created about this hanging alabatross, and the clutch is adjusted using the correct sequence of steps afterwards, sorting the condition of the transmission/clutch interaction is likely to be stalled.


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 81,000 miles
Down Shifting Trouble Usa-lo10
    

24Back to top Go down   Down Shifting Trouble Empty Re: Down Shifting Trouble Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:58 am

charlie99

charlie99
VIP
VIP
Dai wrote:pawl Very Happy
cheers Dai , figured it out long after the post ,,  Down Shifting Trouble 112350 sorry, my spelling is less than accurate, at times .


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%ODown Shifting Trouble Au-log10

'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
    

25Back to top Go down   Down Shifting Trouble Empty Get a custom K they said... Mon Aug 30, 2021 12:14 pm

tjh1985

tjh1985
Silver member
Silver member
Appreciate everyone's willingness to throw in on my troubles - somewhere in all of this is 'the best it's going to get' given I'm not using the original parts. This all falls into the category of shit you don't think about when you have a custom bike built.

    

26Back to top Go down   Down Shifting Trouble Empty Re: Down Shifting Trouble Mon Aug 30, 2021 1:43 pm

92KK 84WW Olaf

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I had same issue a long time ago after I put rear sets on my Honda CB500-4. Getting them and the rear brake set up took a lot of headache. At the time I had access to lots of threaded rod and bottle screws from my boat parts box to get it fine tuned and it made it easier.

Seems to me that the plates that the threaded rod goes into are not equal or are at different angles, needs to be longer at the foot end or shorter at the gear box end to increase the amount of travel on the gear shift to drive each gear fully home. Currently it does not seem to have enough travel.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 49,840 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 42,640 miles.

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

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