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long way from home

long way from home
active member
active member
K100RS 2 valve none ABS

***Warning**** routine maintenance can ruin your bike.. [solved]Was running fine, but now not. 1f600 
Joking apart. The bike was running great.....

I was doing some cleaning and general maintenance, I cleaned around the throttle bodies and forgot to attach the temperature sensor that is lurking round the back of TB #1
I started the bike and it was revving its little nuts off.  [solved]Was running fine, but now not. 1f632 

I quickly spotted my error and connected the cable to the sensor, but then I decided to check the throttle cable at the handlebar, the grease had congealed and was restricting the throttle return, I stripped and cleaned and applied a little new grease.  

It was now that I tried to start the bike...No joy.. [solved]Was running fine, but now not. 1f628 

I have damp plugs with fuel.
I have a spark at the plugs (although does appear weak and possibly intermittent, I checked by holding the plug against the head with insulated pliers in the dark)   
I pulled out the injectors still attached to the fuel rail, and turned over the engine, all are squirting fuel.

But it will not fire at all....

 [solved]Was running fine, but now not. 1f1ed  [solved]Was running fine, but now not. 1f1ea  [solved]Was running fine, but now not. 1f1f1  [solved]Was running fine, but now not. 1f1f5 !!!!

Jump to the bottom, problem solved!!!



Last edited by long way from home on Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:41 pm; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : problem solved)

    

Holister

Holister
Life time member
Life time member
It's over fueling probably due to an issue with the temp sensor.
It will be important to know which model you have.

But I'd try cleaning and re-seating the temp sensor plug and failing that the plug on the ECU also. One at a time so you know which was the problem if it fixed.
Cheers


__________________________________________________

1989 K100RT     VIN  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN  0451808
 [solved]Was running fine, but now not. Austra12    Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

long way from home

long way from home
active member
active member
Holister wrote:It's over fueling probably due to an issue with the temp sensor.
It will be important to know which model you have.

But I'd try cleaning and re-seating the temp sensor plug and failing that the plug on the ECU also. One at a time so you know which was the problem if it fixed.
Cheers
Cheers, I added my bike info to my original post

I have cleaned and re-seated the temp sensor plug, I also did the ECU and disconnected the battery overnight, just in case the ECU has a memory. Still no joy.
I don't believe its over fuelling, it was when temp sensor was unplugged...

Do you or anyone else reading this post know how to check that the coils are getting what they need in terms of electrical supply? Can I run a direct feed to them from the battery? Electricity is not my cup of tea, its black magic and in visible, apart form a SPARK Very Happy


__________________________________________________
Andrew
    

Holister

Holister
Life time member
Life time member
Just a long shot but while you were fiddling with the throttle, you may have knocked the kill switch.

The 2v has an Ignition Control Unit (ICU) under the tank just behind the steering head. The plug can come loose sometimes. Clean and re-seat. Make sure the rubber boot is secure as that all that's holding the plug in place.

If it was a spark plug or lead or one of the coils then I'd be expecting to at least give a chug and make an attempt at firing.

However, I'd start by cleaning your plugs then attempting a start for just 4 or 5 seconds. Then check your plugs. See if any are wetter than others. 1+4 fire off one coil and 2+3 fire off the other.
Check that you have the leads connected correctly.
You can check the coils with a meter. Instructions are found at the bottom of this page.
https://www.kforum-tech.com/electrical/EFI/bike-wont-start-EN.htm



__________________________________________________

1989 K100RT     VIN  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN  0451808
 [solved]Was running fine, but now not. Austra12    Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
You may have a massive amount of fuel in the cylinders that is preventing a good spark.  Trying to start a flooded engine just adds more fuel to flood it more.

When I have that problem, I unplug the fuel tank connector to stop the fuel pump from running and putting more fuel in the cylinders.  Then crank the engine to blow the excess fuel out.  After a couple seconds of cranking it will fire once or twice indicating that the excess fuel is gone.

Reconnect the fuel tank connector and with the throttle closed try to start.  It should start as normal.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS


Past:
1988 K100RS SE
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

long way from home

long way from home
active member
active member
Point-Seven-five wrote:You may have a massive amount of fuel in the cylinders that is preventing a good spark.  Trying to start a flooded engine just adds more fuel to flood it more.

When I have that problem, I unplug the fuel tank connector to stop the fuel pump from running and putting more fuel in the cylinders.  Then crank the engine to blow the excess fuel out.  After a couple seconds of cranking it will fire once or twice indicating that the excess fuel is gone.

Reconnect the fuel tank connector and with the throttle closed try to start.  It should start as normal.
I will give that a shot, will have to be Friday, rain now and no garage... like


__________________________________________________
Andrew
    

long way from home

long way from home
active member
active member
like like like
Holister wrote:Just a long shot but while you were fiddling with the throttle, you may have knocked the kill switch.

The 2v has an Ignition Control Unit (ICU) under the tank just behind the steering head. The plug can come loose sometimes. Clean and re-seat. Make sure the rubber boot is secure as that all that's holding the plug in place.

If it was a spark plug or lead or one of the coils then I'd be expecting to at least give a chug and make an attempt at firing.

However, I'd start by cleaning your plugs then attempting a start for just 4 or 5 seconds. Then check your plugs. See if any are wetter than others. 1+4 fire off one coil and 2+3 fire off the other.
Check that you have the leads connected correctly.
You can check the coils with a meter. Instructions are found at the bottom of this page.
https://www.kforum-tech.com/electrical/EFI/bike-wont-start-EN.htm



__________________________________________________
Andrew
    

8Back to top Go down   [solved]Was running fine, but now not. Empty Ω's Sat Dec 11, 2021 4:58 am

long way from home

long way from home
active member
active member
I measured the Ω's on the primary side of the coils, I have 6.0Ω looks like I should have 2.6Ω what will this higher value cause?


__________________________________________________
Andrew
    

Arlina

Arlina
Moderator
Moderator
Back to basic; throttle cable in the right place?


__________________________________________________
[solved]Was running fine, but now not. Eu-log10  K1100RS/LT - R1200RT - R1100RS (RIP) - Cagiva SST 350 Ala Verde - K75LT project - K75 Schurgers - K75S
    

long way from home

long way from home
active member
active member
Arlina wrote:Back to basic; throttle cable in the right place?
Thanks, throttle cable OK

    

Arlina

Arlina
Moderator
Moderator
Vacuumcaps on the TBs good?
Correct coil on the correct plug/cilinder?
Also, check the earthline on the gearbox, clean it.
Get a jumper cable, minus from battery to engine somewhere, then try to start.


__________________________________________________
[solved]Was running fine, but now not. Eu-log10  K1100RS/LT - R1200RT - R1100RS (RIP) - Cagiva SST 350 Ala Verde - K75LT project - K75 Schurgers - K75S
    

12Back to top Go down   [solved]Was running fine, but now not. Empty still no joy Mon Dec 13, 2021 1:16 am

long way from home

long way from home
active member
active member
Update
13 December
wiring correct for coils and plugs 
checked battery earths
checked all connecting under the tank.
checked static timing
changed the injectors (just because i spare set)
tried with TPS disconnected
tried with temp sensor disconnected (That's the main reason why I am having problems)

the only signs of life are a very loud back fire inn the exhaust one in a while.


__________________________________________________
Andrew
    

Arlina

Arlina
Moderator
Moderator
Just for the record, and breaking my braincells....
What is the type and brand sparkplugs you have in the bike?


__________________________________________________
[solved]Was running fine, but now not. Eu-log10  K1100RS/LT - R1200RT - R1100RS (RIP) - Cagiva SST 350 Ala Verde - K75LT project - K75 Schurgers - K75S
    

MartinW

MartinW
Life time member
Life time member
Remove the temperature sensor and test it in a cup of boiling water. You need to test it between one of the pins and the body of the sensor. You'll need a thermometer and a multimeter. Electronics stores sell digital temperature probe gauges for around $10.00.
Regards Martin.[solved]Was running fine, but now not. K100_t14


__________________________________________________
K75s Hybrid
    

long way from home

long way from home
active member
active member
Arlina wrote:Just for the record, and breaking my braincells....
What is the type and brand sparkplugs you have in the bike?
plugs are NGK DR7EA


__________________________________________________
Andrew
    

16Back to top Go down   [solved]Was running fine, but now not. Empty SOLVED Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:39 pm

long way from home

long way from home
active member
active member
Hi everyone...

Someone asked what plugs I had...

So this morning at 7:30am in 2°C I ventured outside, unwrapped the bike and removed the plugs to see what they were. (NGK DR7EA) I looked in the storage box under the seat and found my old plugs...

So I put them in...

No choke (I didn't want to flood it) pressed the start button.......

It fired instantly and dropped into a steady idle.... 

WTF... all along it was the plugs   [solved]Was running fine, but now not. 1f600 

Next job ...when its warmer TEST RIDE !!!!!

BIG thanks to everyone that responded with advise much appreciated.. long live the forum... 

[solved]Was running fine, but now not. 314114


__________________________________________________
Andrew
    

MartinW

MartinW
Life time member
Life time member
[solved]Was running fine, but now not. 112350  Good call Arlina. The R in the plug designation refers that they are resistance plugs. When they are combined with resistance leads they can sometimes cause problems. In essence you are doubling the resistance. I once tried running resistance plugs  with resistance leads and my bike ran fine, but maybe some leads are a higher resistance.  D7EA are the correct NGK plugs.
Regards Martin.


__________________________________________________
K75s Hybrid
    

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
Another factor with the NGK plugs is that they don't have the "terminal nut" necessary to make good electrical connection to the plug wire.  Not having that nut on the plug forces the spark to jump a second air gap to fire the fuel mixture in the cylinder. 

If the wire is old and the insulation is not up to snuff, the added resistance of that air gap between the plug and wire will cause the spark to leak out of the wire to the engine block.  You didn't mention it, but I suspect that your old plugs might have been Bosch with the permanently attached nut that connects securely with the plug wire. 

The NGK plugs are excellent and work well, I use them in all my bikes and automobiles, but you have to have those terminal nuts to make them work with the OEM plug wires on our bikes.  Those nuts can be gotten from NGK technical support.  An email or phone call is all it takes to get a good supply.  You can also get them from ay shop that services small engines, they almost always have a box of old plugs that you can take the nuts off of.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS


Past:
1988 K100RS SE
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

long way from home

long way from home
active member
active member
MartinW wrote:[solved]Was running fine, but now not. 112350  Good call Arlina. The R in the plug designation refers that they are resistance plugs. When they are combined with resistance leads they can sometimes cause problems. In essence you are doubling the resistance. I once tried running resistance plugs  with resistance leads and my bike ran fine, but maybe some leads are a higher resistance.  D7EA are the correct NGK plugs.
Regards Martin.
 D7EA are on there way thanks Amazon


__________________________________________________
Andrew
    

long way from home

long way from home
active member
active member
Point-Seven-five wrote:Another factor with the NGK plugs is that they don't have the "terminal nut" necessary to make good electrical connection to the plug wire.  Not having that nut on the plug forces the spark to jump a second air gap to fire the fuel mixture in the cylinder. 
I have spare terminal nuts on hand... lol!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCIE4_DubXo

[solved]Was running fine, but now not. 112350


__________________________________________________
Andrew
    

charlie99

charlie99
VIP
VIP
at last ,
good find   [solved]Was running fine, but now not. 112350


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O[solved]Was running fine, but now not. Au-log10

'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
    

Arlina

Arlina
Moderator
Moderator
long way from home wrote:
Arlina wrote:Just for the record, and breaking my braincells....
What is the type and brand sparkplugs you have in the bike?
plugs are NGK DR7EA

Sometimes life is so simple Razz 

Just back from dreamland, read you're on the right track now [solved]Was running fine, but now not. 112350


__________________________________________________
[solved]Was running fine, but now not. Eu-log10  K1100RS/LT - R1200RT - R1100RS (RIP) - Cagiva SST 350 Ala Verde - K75LT project - K75 Schurgers - K75S
    

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
long way from home wrote:
Point-Seven-five wrote:Another factor with the NGK plugs is that they don't have the "terminal nut" necessary to make good electrical connection to the plug wire.  Not having that nut on the plug forces the spark to jump a second air gap to fire the fuel mixture in the cylinder. 
I have spare terminal nuts on hand... lol!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCIE4_DubXo

[solved]Was running fine, but now not. 112350
Did your plugs have the terminal nuts installed?


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS


Past:
1988 K100RS SE
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

moriarti

moriarti
Life time member
Life time member
The Mystic East has Confucius and Fortune cookies Mystic Meg rules the Psychic world. This Forum has ARLINA  :BW: :BW: No contest  Very Happy Very Happy


__________________________________________________
1984 k100 rs red/black VIN  0004449
    

Arlina

Arlina
Moderator
Moderator
long way from home wrote:K100RS 2 valve none ABS

The bike was running great.....

I was doing some cleaning and general maintenance,
I have damp plugs with fuel.
I have a spark at the plugs (although does appear weak and possibly intermittent, I checked by holding the plug against the head with insulated pliers in the dark)   
I pulled out the injectors still attached to the fuel rail, and turned over the engine, all are squirting fuel.

But it will not fire at all....

Just did the math.... weak spark.


(I couldn't resist Razz  )


__________________________________________________
[solved]Was running fine, but now not. Eu-log10  K1100RS/LT - R1200RT - R1100RS (RIP) - Cagiva SST 350 Ala Verde - K75LT project - K75 Schurgers - K75S
    

barney t weasel

barney t weasel
active member
active member
long way from home wrote:Hi everyone...

Someone asked what plugs I had...

So this morning at 7:30am in 2°C I ventured outside, unwrapped the bike and removed the plugs to see what they were. (NGK DR7EA) I looked in the storage box under the seat and found my old plugs...

So I put them in...

No choke (I didn't want to flood it) pressed the start button.......

It fired instantly and dropped into a steady idle.... 

WTF... all along it was the plugs   [solved]Was running fine, but now not. 1f600 

Next job ...when its warmer TEST RIDE !!!!! good stuff. Thanks for posting this.


BIG thanks to everyone that responded with advise much appreciated.. long live the forum... 

[solved]Was running fine, but now not. 314114

    

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