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1Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:38 pm

jjefferies

jjefferies
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Ok, I looked at several threads on heated hand grips and couldn't find or just missed some details. So here's my current problem: Silver bike, will have to modify the handle bars for heated grips. No biggee and my thanks to whoever it was that posted a diagram of how to cut/tap the bars. But I have the OEM grips. Well, truthfully think I must have 3 or 4pair of broken ones. Got two that appear to be working, i.e. 8 ohms resistance. And I have the switch. What I don't have and aren't willing to shell out USD $70. for is the intermediary harness. The one that consists of wire, three connectors and a resistor to drop the power when in low temp power mode. I have plenty of wire and suitable connectors.  But what is the resistance of the resistor wire piece? I even have resistivity wire as well as regular power resistors.

Oh, and I got one of the K100RS stainless steel fastener kits to pretty up Silver. That looks like a long drawn out project.
best regards J

    

2Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:48 am

Dai

Dai
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Forgive the what-might-be a really stupid question, but why not fit an aftermarket kit that has a fully adjustable control rather than BMW's too hot/nowhere near warm enough/off system? Unless you've modified the neoprene switch holder on the handlebars, the small black control box sticks very nicely top-left or top-right. No hacking the handlebars either.


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec, 1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

3Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:30 am

Born Again Eccentric

Born Again Eccentric
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Dai wrote:Forgive the what-might-be a really stupid question, but why not fit an aftermarket kit that has a fully adjustable control rather than BMW's too hot/nowhere near warm enough/off system? Unless you've modified the neoprene switch holder on the handlebars, the small black control box sticks very nicely top-left or top-right. No hacking the handlebars either.
I’m with Dai on this one…unless you are wanting to keep the bike in original condition (noting that if you have no wiring loom for them, heated grips are not original to your particular model). After fiddling with, repairing and cursing the OEM ones on my LTs, I fitted Oxford heated grips some time ago and never looked back.


__________________________________________________
Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Uk-log10 Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Sco-lo15
                              Paul  Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) 905546712

"Heidi" K100LT 1991 (Grey) (VIN 0190172 Engine No. 104EB 2590 2213) - 5th owner. January 2014 (34,000 - 61,000 miles and counting....)
"Gretel" K100LT 1989 (Silver Grey) (VIN 0177324 Engine No. 104EA 2789 2211) - 4th+ owner. September 2015 (58,500miles and counting....). Cat C Insurance write-off rebuild Feb 17
"Donor" K100LT 1990 (Red)  (VIN 0178091 Engine No. 4489 2024) - 6th & final owner (crash write-off now donor bike).   June 2012 (73,000 miles) to November 2013 (89,500 miles)
    

4Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:21 am

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
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Or put the money into a pair of heated gloves that will actually warm your knuckles(the part of your hand that gets cold) and work on all your bikes present and future.

https://www.gerbing.com/gerbing-12v-mens-gt5-gloves



Last edited by Point-Seven-five on Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:38 pm; edited 1 time in total


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS


Past:
1988 K100RS SE
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

5Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:02 am

warmshed

warmshed
active member
active member
jjefferies wrote:Ok, I looked at several threads on heated hand grips and couldn't find or just missed some details. So here's my current problem: Silver bike, will have to modify the handle bars for heated grips. No biggee and my thanks to whoever it was that posted a diagram of how to cut/tap the bars. But I have the OEM grips. Well, truthfully think I must have 3 or 4pair of broken ones. Got two that appear to be working, i.e. 8 ohms resistance. And I have the switch. What I don't have and aren't willing to shell out USD $70. for is the intermediary harness. The one that consists of wire, three connectors and a resistor to drop the power when in low temp power mode. I have plenty of wire and suitable connectors.  But what is the resistance of the resistor wire piece? I even have resistivity wire as well as regular power resistors.

Oh, and I got one of the K100RS stainless steel fastener kits to pretty up Silver. That looks like a long drawn out project.
best regards J
I used a 5 ohm  50 watt resistor rather than a resistance wire.  I cut the leads and soldered a male and female lucar spade connector on them.  works perfectly and you can adjust the heat on the low setting by reducing or increasing the resistance,  

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/313723263172?hash=item490b5d18c4:g:6jAAAOSwEpxhdFsz

    

6Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:29 pm

Arlina

Arlina
Moderator
Moderator
Had Oxford heated grips on another bike, very satisfied with them.
Better than the BMW ones....

BMW....
0; off
1; could be warm
2; maybe hot

Oxford.....
0; off
1; low
2; warmer
3; hot
4; you're in the artic I guess......


__________________________________________________
Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Eu-log10  K1100RS/LT - R1200RT - R1100RS (RIP) - Cagiva SST 350 Ala Verde - K75LT project - K75 Schurgers - K75S
    

7Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:38 pm

jjefferies

jjefferies
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Dai wrote:Forgive the what-might-be a really stupid question, but why not fit an aftermarket kit that has a fully adjustable control rather than BMW's too hot/nowhere near warm enough/off system? Unless you've modified the neoprene switch holder on the handlebars, the small black control box sticks very nicely top-left or top-right. No hacking the handlebars either.
Perfectly reasonable question. And I considered it first. But I could never figure out whether the grip for a 7/8 inch bar would fit on the required control piece for the throttle. Even e-mailed the Oxford folks asking about it. Never got a response. Probably should have asked here. But I have all the parts at hand to install the OEM grips. Well ok, I have had to do some fiddling. But isn't that what its all about? Thank you Warm Shed "5 ohm  50 watt resistor".

thanks guys. And do tell me if the throttle side grip will fit the BMW throttle tube. There are reasons why I might reconsider my choice.

    

8Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:24 pm

Dai

Dai
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I can't give a straight answer because I have Triumph switch clusters on Low Flying Brick, but having said that, there is absolutely no reason why they will not fit. However, I don't think I've ever had any bike where I didn't have to mod the twistgrip in some way or another, from filing molded ridges off to applying a single turn of insulating tape to give a smooth twistgrip (like the K) sufficient diameter to hold the new grip.

Paul? Did you have to make any changes?


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec, 1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

9Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:53 pm

RicK G

RicK G
admin
admin
Using insulation tape on heated grips can be a problem, the sticky stuff gets hot and the grip slips off. I tried using a sleeve of heat shrink tube but it was too thick and the grip was very hard to get on, on my current ride I used Oxford grips and found that an extra sleeve of black plastic water proofing membrane (type used under concrete slabs) to work on the left grip and the right grip fitted very snugly as it was.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 2004 K1200GT 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki
    

10Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Sat Jan 15, 2022 8:04 am

tinyspuds

tinyspuds
Life time member
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I use Oxford Touring grips on my ‘85 fits the throttle tube without issue and a dab or two of rubber glue on the left works well. Love them. Especially when used with my Oxford handlebar muffs, warm and dry come what may.


__________________________________________________
1985 BMW K100RT + Hedingham HUB and LL’s. VIN 0028106.
1986 K100RS in boxes. VIN 0141918.
1954 Royal Enfield 350 Bullet. Original.
2000 Hayabusa with Charnwood chair, Wasp forks and EZS wheels.
    

11Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Funny Frustrating Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:39 pm

jjefferies

jjefferies
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If this ain't just the funniest & frustrating & sad. From the information gleaned here, I need a 5 ohm 50 watt resistor to complete my parts inventory before installing my heated grips. Whoops, turns out that my go to Electronics parts stores have all up and gone, Fry's, Al Lasher's over in Berkeley, Halted, Weird Stuff, the several excess supply stores I used to frequent. This ain't the heart of Silicon Valley but it is the periphery. So I began looking for new sources of supply. Digi-Key advertises it has it all. But it's located in Minnesota and I'm not in favor of riding over in the middle of winter. So I'm searching through Silicon Valley. Maybe I just try winding my own Wink   I've got resistive nichrome wire. So I go measure off 5.5 ohms worth, wind it around a dowel. And then hook it up to a 12 volt battery. It don't glow but Where would one put such a device, developing something like 30-36 watts of heat? How does the OEM intermediary wiring loom deal with the heat diverted from the handlebars. Any comments?

    

12Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:52 pm

RicK G

RicK G
admin
admin
The resistance wire is included in the loom and to be honest it doesn't deal very well with the heat, there have been many instances of the wires melting.
Have you considered using PWM (Pulse Width Modulator) they can be obtained very cheap. They control the heat by a series of pulses of 12v and depending how close the pulses are the heat produced is more or less and no heat is produced elsewhere to melt the plastic bits.
Oxford have a very good system which detects the engine running and automatically switches off a few minutes from engine off so you don't even forget to turn them off and they have 4 heat settings. I have been using them for many years


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 2004 K1200GT 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki
    

13Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:03 am

jjefferies

jjefferies
Life time member
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RicK G wrote:Have you considered using PWM (Pulse Width Modulator) they can be obtained very cheap. They control the heat by a series of pulses of 12v and depending how close the pulses are the heat produced is more or less and no heat is produced elsewhere to melt the plastic bits.
Oxford have a very good system which detects the engine running and automatically switches off a few minutes from engine off so you don't even forget to turn them off and they have 4 heat settings. I have been using them for many years
Looks very interesting from the details given on ebay. And priced about the same as a 50 watt resistor. Biggest question would be how to mount one so it wouldn't be obtrusive and the heat sinks can do their job.
Question: Do you think  a 3 amp one would be adequate?
https://usa.banggood.com/12V-24V-Pulse-Width-PWM-DC-Motor-Speed-Switch-Controller-Regulator-p-916751.html?utm_source=googleshopping&utm_medium=cpc_organic&gmcCountry=US&utm_content=minha&utm_campaign=minha-usg-pc&currency=USD&cur_warehouse=CN&createTmp=1&utm_source=googleshopping&utm_medium=cpc_bgcs&utm_content=sandra&utm_campaign=sandra-ssc-usg-all-newcustom-ncv90-0420-19cov&ad_id=432153545270&gclid=CjwKCAiAxJSPBhAoEiwAeO_fP8-X7IqSQF8cFE2JwgEs8eMkrGEshwnRjXoT8fn_O87FVuzL-V9kZxoCoq4QAvD_BwE

This one has the advantage of having the controlling rheostat being on a wire whereas the more powerful 10 amp ones have the controlling rheostat is mounted on the board. Which would make mounting the unit more difficult.

WEIRD. The one above looks like what I would like but there's no button on the website to order it. Looks like I'll have to go with one of the others which are less convenient to mount. Another reason why buying from China is a concern.

Thanks for the suggestion.
J.

    

14Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:28 am

warmshed

warmshed
active member
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I used one like this,  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264693744396?hash=item3da0fa030c:g:8rQAAOSwHwVejgXQ

Cheap came quickly and easy to mount. Does not seem to get hot.  it will only be dissipating around 18 watts as the 5 ohms is in series  + the two elements  = 4.5 ohms( 2 x 9 ohms in parallel).  being 9.5 ohms in total, taking the battery nominal at 13 V  gives approx 1.4 A= is approx  18 watts.,

    

15Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:30 am

Dai

Dai
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WEIRD. The one above looks like what I would like but there's no button on the website to order it. Looks like I'll have to go with one of the others which are less convenient to mount. Another reason why buying from China is a concern.
Not really weird. In recent months the Chinese government have been kicking their biggest tech firms right where it hurts because it thinks they're getting too capitalist and out of the CCP's direct control. Missing order buttons on big international websites is just one symptom of it.


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec, 1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

16Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:20 am

RicK G

RicK G
admin
admin
Here is a 12v 10A with a remote controller and I give a personal recommendation of him, been dealing with him for years and always good
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/393872332645?hash=item5bb49ed765:g:xOIAAOSwnJph4aPF
He also has a huge range of junction boxes which are good for a water proof mounting. And if you buy directly from him under that name  SOLALUNA he is a bit cheaper.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 2004 K1200GT 1998 K1100 LT, 1993 K75 RT, 1996 K75RT, 1986 K75 GS, 1979 Z1300 Kawasaki
    

17Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:19 am

Laitch

Laitch
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jjefferies wrote:WEIRD. The one above looks like what I would like but there's no button on the website to order it. 
There's a button; you use it to create an "account" then this wonder of the People's Republic should be available to you..
Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Scree182


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 81,000 miles
Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Usa-lo10
    

18Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:49 pm

jjefferies

jjefferies
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Laitch wrote:
jjefferies wrote:WEIRD. The one above looks like what I would like but there's no button on the website to order it. 
There's a button; you use it to create an "account" then this wonder of the People's Republic should be available to you..
Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Scree182
Ok, but thought that $2.00 was applicable only if you buy something like $50. Very Happy Will give it a try.

    

19Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:56 pm

jjefferies

jjefferies
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warmshed wrote:I used one like this,  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264693744396?hash=item3da0fa030c:g:8rQAAOSwHwVejgXQ

Cheap came quickly and easy to mount. Does not seem to get hot.  it will only be dissipating around 18 watts as the 5 ohms is in series  + the two elements  = 4.5 ohms( 2 x 9 ohms in parallel).  being 9.5 ohms in total, taking the battery nominal at 13 V  gives approx 1.4 A= is approx  18 watts.,
Oh! In which case the 5 ohm 25 watt resistors I have would be adequate?
I must not have been properly estimating the proper power dissipation.
Wait my voltmeter shows nominal 14.2 volts when at my normal cruising speed.

Oh, choices choices. To go with a simple resistor or those sexy PWM's.
Will give it thought after I get back.

thanks all

    

20Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:26 pm

jjefferies

jjefferies
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Life time member
Another aside, about modifying the bars themselves. According to a local expert you don't need to make cuts to the handle bars, as long as you have the 10mm hold for the wires to pass through in the middle of the bars.  Just move the handle bar control mechanisms 1/4-1/2 inch further out on the bars. On both sides this allows the heated hand grip wires to clear the ends of the bars. Sounds reasonable to me. Any disagreements or counter arguments?

    

21Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:37 pm

K75cster

K75cster
Life time member
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ASAK the only reason the bars have cut outs in them was to accommodate bar end weights. Many others have done just that to their non bar end bars with their heated grips


__________________________________________________
Keith - 1987 K75c with r100rt replica fairing and half of a 1984 K100rt 1992 K1100LT a blue one

The Clever are adept at extricating themselves from situations that the wise would have avoided from the outset - QUOTE from david Hillel in Out of the Earth.
    

22Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:01 am

warmshed

warmshed
active member
active member
jjefferies wrote:
warmshed wrote:I used one like this,  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264693744396?hash=item3da0fa030c:g:8rQAAOSwHwVejgXQ

Cheap came quickly and easy to mount. Does not seem to get hot.  it will only be dissipating around 18 watts as the 5 ohms is in series  + the two elements  = 4.5 ohms( 2 x 9 ohms in parallel).  being 9.5 ohms in total, taking the battery nominal at 13 V  gives approx 1.4 A= is approx  18 watts.,
Oh! In which case the 5 ohm 25 watt resistors I have would be adequate?
I must not have been properly estimating the proper power dissipation.
Wait my voltmeter shows nominal 14.2 volts when at my normal cruising speed.

Oh, choices choices. To go with a simple resistor or those sexy PWM's.
Will give it thought after I get back.

thanks all
Even at 14.4 volts that's still less than 22 watts.  Quick and easy to do, you will soon judge if that is correct for you if not easy to change the resistor. adjustable is a bit overkill and I hate extra bolt on knobs.

    

23Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Ah, Progress Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:39 pm

jjefferies

jjefferies
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warmshed wrote:Even at 14.4 volts that's still less than 22 watts.  Quick and easy to do, you will soon judge if that is correct for you if not easy to change the resistor. adjustable is a bit overkill and I hate extra bolt on knobs.
It is never easy to do as I'm trying to make it right (OEM style) without all the necessary bits. Today I scored/obtained the male 3 wire connector that the OEM switch mates to. It came with the male connector that the wires to the grips mate to. Also I'm saving the existing rubber hand grips (never can tell when they might come in handy) which means a struggle to get them off without slitting/tearing or otherwise destroying them. My buddy Greg had the connectors tossed into a box of scrap bits at his shop. Well worth the ride over the bay to sit and jaw. Wink  For a brief moment I thought I might have even scored the resistor wire but no such luck so will have to make do with my wire wrapped ceramic resistors. But it's coming together even if a bit clunky.

Did see the Oxford heated grips setup whilst I was over there visiting. Someone was having them installed on a R75. Quite interesting how many bits come with the installation, multiple sets of hand grips etc. Right now i'm trying to guess how long the wire leads need to be in the intermediate wiring harness to connect it all together. Thinking it thru, that's a new one for me. Wink

    

24Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty New Issues with heated grips on Silver Sat Feb 05, 2022 2:06 pm

jjefferies

jjefferies
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Hi guys, I've waddled through most of the issues with this project, including rewiring the heated grips. I didn't mention that before as I was a bit embarrassed that what I thought was already to be installed had issues I hadn't dealt with properly. So let me backup, I installed the switch and the grips (with room to move/rotate) and had almost all the wiring ready before I pulled the tank. Uh, Oh, when I belatedly remembered that the USB outlet I had installed ran off the power connector normally used by the heated hand grips. In this modern world I really hate giving up a really nice USB outlet with a built-in voltmeter. So I sort of added a split to accommodate both. That of course entailed scrounging for OEM style connectors which further delayed finishing the project. And then on one scrounging trip riding Red, my main ride, the heated grips there caused a short and FUSE #1 to pop. Which necessitated immediate action as there were club rides/meetings coming. Anyway now I'm back on it and the thought has crawled across my consciousness like a slug across a ripening tomato, exactly how much power is available through this one power outlet. So first I tried to figure out what the max power could be demanded by the two devices, USB outlet, and heated grips, 38 watts for the grips and 48 watts (4 amps) for the USB outlet (2amps each x 2 outlets). Not sure about the totals for the USB as I'm not quite sure how it takes the 12 volt input down to 5 volt 2 amps for the two outlets. The voltmeter I'm assuming is negligible. Fuse #1 is of course 7.5 amps. So I'm thinking (rightly perhaps) that I may be calling for more power than fuse #1 can handle. In fact I tested what fails if Fuse #1 blows and as far as I can tell, all the instrumentation, but not the back lights in the instrument pod, the voltage remains at 14 volts even though the alternator light comes on - the only instrument that does work. And the starter won't work either.

So it comes to me that perhaps the way out of this is to tie the USB outlet to the power outlet on the dash. BUT is that  1.) sensible as there would be a steady draw for the voltmeter even if negligible, 2.) is that outlet fused and which fuse? 3.) Is there an alternate switched (on/off) power take off point?

Thanks for reading this rather lengthy post. Suggestions other than anatomically impossible ones appreciated. BTW, I've crawled (almost literally ) through the electrical diagrams in both the Haynes and Clymer manuals though it's done little more than give me eye strain and a headache.

    

25Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Sat Feb 05, 2022 2:59 pm

Dai

Dai
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It isn't just the fuse - you're also getting too close to the current limit of the feed wire. Leave the USB connectors alone and fit a relay to feed the heated grips. Look in the relay box; there are two unused relay mounting posts in the centre.

- Run a green wire from the load shed relay to pin 86 on your new relay
- Earth pin 85 with a brown wire
- Run pin 30 to the battery
- use pin 87a to feed the heated grips
- Fit an additional inline fuse between pin 87a and the grips if it makes you feel more comfortable. You can dangle it out in the breeze next to the original fusebox to make it easy to get at.


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec, 1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

26Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Sat Feb 05, 2022 4:54 pm

jjefferies

jjefferies
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Dai wrote:It isn't just the fuse - you're also getting too close to the current limit of the feed wire. Leave the USB connectors alone and fit a relay to feed the heated grips. Look in the relay box; there are two unused relay mounting posts in the centre.

- Run a green wire from the load shed relay to pin 86 on your new relay
- Earth pin 85 with a brown wire
- Run pin 30 to the battery
- use pin 87a to feed the heated grips
- Fit an additional inline fuse between pin 87a and the grips if it makes you feel more comfortable. You can dangle it out in the breeze next to the original fusebox to make it easy to get at.
Now that's an interesting thought. But would it not make more sense to use the existing feed for the heated hand grips which is what it was spec'd for and use your suggestion for the USB? Or is there an issue with "getting too close to the current limit of the feed wire" with the heated hand grips? At this point it would be just as easy to jump either way in terms of work.

Oh, the heated handgrips with the throttle (right side) grip being so vulnerable to wear and shorting and USB being less of a concern then leaving the USB ports on the old connector and putting in a special one for the heated hand grips means additional safety/security. Gotchca.



Last edited by jjefferies on Sat Feb 05, 2022 7:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

    

27Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Heated grips Sat Feb 05, 2022 6:38 pm

daveyson

daveyson
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When you blew fuse one as a test, I'm assuming you did that by shorting a green/black wire while the engine was running, with the result that the alternator light came on. 

What I'm thinking about that is that the shorted green/black wire is providing earth to the alternator light and it's getting power from the alternator through the blue wire, so the light turns on. Normally with the engine running it gets power from both sides so remains off. With ignition on, engine off, it gets power from green/black and earth from blue, so the light goes on.

The start button gets power from black/green wires, which get power from green/black wires so the starter won't work with the blown fuse.


__________________________________________________
11/1985 bmw k100rt (late model)  Vin. 0090567
 ~120,000 km
    

28Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Sat Feb 05, 2022 7:38 pm

jjefferies

jjefferies
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daveyson wrote:When you blew fuse one as a test, I'm assuming you did that by shorting a green/black wire while the engine was running, with the result that the alternator light came on. 
Actually I did the test statically by the simple expedient of pulling the #1 fuse on Red (my main ride). But I had previously blown that fuse while on the road which was my clue...

    

29Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:54 am

jjefferies

jjefferies
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Another detail, some electrical images of the relay box and specifically the fuses, shows the middle fuse #4  15A as simply + without any devices it connects to. Is this suitable for an operation such as supplying the heated grips through a relay in the relay box?

    

30Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Sun Feb 06, 2022 12:44 pm

Dai

Dai
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Ah - I forgot about that wee skitter. Yes, it will do nicely but as you say, you'll still need the relay to ensure the grips go auto-off with the ignition switch.


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec, 1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

31Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Sun Feb 06, 2022 11:05 pm

jjefferies

jjefferies
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Dai wrote:Ah - I forgot about that wee skitter. Yes, it will do nicely but as you say, you'll still need the relay to ensure the grips go auto-off with the ignition switch.
Totally weird, but I dug into the box. That middle fuse #4 has power on its right side and two wires 1 red and 1 black on the left side of the fuse. I wasn't able to trace them. However the alarm connector, round with 4 pins, is available and as I have no intention of putting in an alarm that would make sense to use.

The wiring diagrams for the K's appear to have a few lapses. For instance the power outlets on the dash and the left side apparently are not fused. And I can't tell but the headlight also appears to be not fused.

    

32Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Mon Feb 07, 2022 12:33 am

Laitch

Laitch
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jjefferies wrote: For instance the power outlets on the dash and the left side apparently are not fused. And I can't tell but the headlight also appears to be not fused.
The power sockets on my K75 are powered from fuse 4, which conforms to the K75 Riders Handbook diagram.


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 81,000 miles
Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Usa-lo10
    

33Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Mon Feb 07, 2022 3:21 am

jjefferies

jjefferies
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Laitch wrote:
jjefferies wrote: For instance the power outlets on the dash and the left side apparently are not fused. And I can't tell but the headlight also appears to be not fused.
The power sockets on my K75 are powered from fuse 4, which conforms to the K75 Riders Handbook diagram.
You RIght. My excuse is Silver doesn't have a Rider's Handbook. So I have to go digging around. So far I've been trying to use Clymer and Hayne's manuals. Any clue about the headlight being fused? I removed all the fuses and the headlight remained on. Also anyone know where or if the Rider's Manual diagrams can be found on the net?

thanks
guys

    

34Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Mon Feb 07, 2022 2:09 pm

Laitch

Laitch
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Any clue about the headlight being fused? I removed all the fuses and the headlight remained on.

Also anyone know where or if the Rider's Manual diagrams can be found on the net?
There's a clue!

Also, the rider's manual diagram is simply a drawing of the fuse panel with the #4 slot labeled power sockets. The K75 has the same array as the K100 2V. There's a K100 2V rider's manual in the Portal here. There's a K75 rider's manual at motobrick.com.


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 81,000 miles
Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Usa-lo10
    

35Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Mon Feb 07, 2022 11:01 pm

jjefferies

jjefferies
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Dai wrote:It isn't just the fuse - you're also getting too close to the current limit of the feed wire. Leave the USB connectors alone and fit a relay to feed the heated grips. Look in the relay box; there are two unused relay mounting posts in the centre.

- Run a green wire from the load shed relay to pin 86 on your new relay
- Earth pin 85 with a brown wire
- Run pin 30 to the battery
- use pin 87a to feed the heated grips
- Fit an additional inline fuse between pin 87a and the grips if it makes you feel more comfortable. You can dangle it out in the breeze next to the original fusebox to make it easy to get at.
Interesting Differences. I found one relay mounting post on the periphery. No big deal. But the comment:
"- Run a green wire from the load shed relay to pin 86 on your new relay"
brings up the question which pin on the load shedding relay, 87 or 30? My read of the diagrams in the Rider's Manual shows power being fed to pin 87 on the "load shedding Relay" and coming out on pin 30 when the relay is energized. So I'm a tad confused do I want to power pin 86 on the new relay when the "load shedding relay" is energized or not.

Perhaps an explanation of the load shedding relay functions would be helpful.

    

36Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Tue Feb 08, 2022 4:08 am

Laitch

Laitch
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jjeffries wrote:"- Run a green wire from the load shed relay to pin 86 on your new relay"
brings up the question which pin on the load shedding relay, 87 or 30?
Neither.

The wire on Pin 86 of the load shed (LS) relay is usually green and it is from the ignition switch. It controls the LS relay. You want your heated grips relay to be controlled by the ignition switch, too, to prevent inconvenient consequences from your forgetting to shut down the grips when you hop off your Brick in search of breaded pork, or tofu, tenderloins.

Several fine descriptions of how the LS relay works will appear if load shed relay is typed into the search box within the Portal here. I'd be happy to explain it after I get some sleep, but would you really want that? Laughing


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 81,000 miles
Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Usa-lo10
    

37Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Tue Feb 08, 2022 6:48 am

Dai

Dai
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As Laitch says, add a new green wire to pin 86 of the load shed relay. Slide a tiny screwdriver down inside the latch housing for pin 86 to flatten the locking pin and release the terminal (the latch housing is the tiny notch on one side of each terminal housing in the relay socket). It's a standard 1/4" (6.35mm or 6.4mm depending on the seller's calculator) Lucar female latch terminal available at almost literally any autospares outlet. Cut the old terminal off and crimp both wires into the replacement terminal.

Additionally, run fuse 4 to pin 30 of your new relay.


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec, 1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

38Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Tue Feb 08, 2022 6:17 pm

jjefferies

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Well, I'm either a little early or late to the party here. I backed out the work I had done to connect both the USB outlet and the heated hand grips to the power takeoff from fuse 1. Now only the USB outlet is hooked there. Then I selected a relay which had a modifiable physical connection and bent and ground (as in grind-ed) its tab so as to mount in the box. And found and fixed some appropriate wiring connectors so the heated grips could be disconnected when making modifications to the handle bars etc. I located a power takeoff point as the alarm system (a round tubular connector that goes through fuse 5 (15 amps). The alarm system is powered on at all times and fused through fuse 5 and is completely unused by me now and in the future.  Now I'm ready to install it all.

My assumptions at this point are that I want the relay i.e. the heated hand grips, only powered on when 1.) the ignition key is turned on 2.) the machine is running i.e. not cranking.  So I want my newly added relay to energize and pass power through to the grips under these conditions. My assumption was that there would be a takeoff point on the "Load Shedding Relay" that could be used to energize the relay I'm putting in under the appropriate conditions 1 and 2 above. Is there a fault in my logic/assumptions?

So which connector out should I be using from the load shedding relay?

thanks
J.

    

39Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Tue Feb 08, 2022 7:57 pm

Dai

Dai
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Well... I was only concerned with the all-too-easily-done turn bike off and leave grips running if they are connected directly to the battery. If you really want to go belt-and-braces then connect it to pin 30 (green/blue) on the load shed relay.

IMO BMW chose to do something that was more flash than practical here. Under normal (i.e. engine not being started) circumstances, the load shed relay earths through the starter motor windings, so it is permanently pulled in. Hit the start button and 12 volts is applied across the starter motor windings, so the earthing is removed and the relay drops out (switches off), removing power to anything that is fed by pin 30. The downside to this not-so-clever idea is that BMW built a bike that would give the cockroaches a run for their money in the event of a nuclear war; starter brushes wear out, earthing becomes intermittant and then all sorts of strange electrical mayhem ensures.


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec, 1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

40Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Tue Feb 08, 2022 8:45 pm

Laitch

Laitch
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It's gonna happen; I can feel the heat already!


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 81,000 miles
Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Usa-lo10
    

41Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Tue Feb 08, 2022 10:22 pm

jjefferies

jjefferies
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Dai wrote:Well... I was only concerned with the all-too-easily-done turn bike off and leave grips running if they are connected directly to the battery. If you really want to go belt-and-braces then connect it to pin 30 (green/blue) on the load shed relay.

IMO BMW chose to do something that was more flash than practical here. Under normal (i.e. engine not being started) circumstances, the load shed relay earths through the starter motor windings, so it is permanently pulled in. Hit the start button and 12 volts is applied across the starter motor windings, so the earthing is removed and the relay drops out (switches off), removing power to anything that is fed by pin 30. The downside to this not-so-clever idea is that BMW built a bike that would give the cockroaches a run for their money in the event of a nuclear war; starter brushes wear out, earthing becomes intermittant and then all sorts of strange electrical mayhem ensures.
This is SOOOoo much fun | NOT. So I went in and based on the pretty pictures found what I "THINK" is the load shed relay, and pulled it out. Well that was the base not the relay which just is just inserted. But working on the base I gently pulled Pin/contact 30 and proceeded to try to solder another wire on. After some moralizing about did I want a professional job or not, working with a hot soldering iron with fairly tight wires in a constricted space trying desperately to not botch it, I backed out and put it all back together again. I did clean off the contacts of the usual grunge and sprayed it with contact cleaner. No, despite the fact that I hate them I think I will attempt to use a couple of fast connectors. You know the kind that allow you to butt join one wire to another without soldering but by physically connecting the wires. Hate them but they are looking much more attractive in light of the fact that I don't have the proper spade connectors with the press out tab/tang that hold the connector into a casing. And those are not available at the local Auto supply store.

But it is pin #30 on the load shedding relay that will give me a connection to energize the relay only when 1.)the ignition key is turned on and the starter motor is not turning?
thanks
J.

    

42Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Wed Feb 09, 2022 12:47 am

Laitch

Laitch
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Dai wrote:If you really want to go belt-and-braces then connect it to pin 30 (green/blue) on the load shed relay.
Hit the start button and 12 volts is applied across the starter motor windings, so the earthing is removed and the relay drops out (switches off), removing power to anything that is fed by pin 30.
jjeffries wrote:But it is pin #30 on the load shedding relay that will give me a connection to energize the relay only when 1.)the ignition key is turned on and the starter motor is not turning?
What might be confusing you is that Dai is referring to suspenders in the first sentence, not orthodontic appliances. Carry on! cheers


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 81,000 miles
Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Usa-lo10
    

43Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Wed Feb 09, 2022 3:05 am

jjefferies

jjefferies
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Laitch wrote:
Dai wrote:If you really want to go belt-and-braces then connect it to pin 30 (green/blue)shedding relay that will give me a connection to energize the relay only when 1.)the ignition key is turned on and the starter motor is not turning?
What might be confusing you is that Dai is referring to suspenders in the first sentence, not orthodontic appliances. Carry on! cheers
You right! What have belt-and-braces got to do with anything? That's new to me especially as I thought I'd already heard it all. Not to mention that the wiring color is brown and grey. Which keeps me worried that either I've not got the load shedding relay or that I'm looking at the wrong wire.

    

44Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Wed Feb 09, 2022 5:56 am

Born Again Eccentric

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Oh dear, two great nations divided by a common language…

Belt & Braces: 2 independent control methods…i.e. a belt holds your trousers up by fastening securely around your waist. Braces - elasticated straps that go over the shoulders and fasten to the front and back of your trousers to hold them up. You don’t need both to hold your trousers up…but if you use both, you can be pretty sure they ain’t gonna fall down even if one fails!

Braces: an mechanical orthodontic device that clamps on crooked teeth to get them aligned. Don’t apply these to your trousers as they really will not help at all, no matter how crooked your trousers are.

Suspenders: No, these aren’t the gentleman’s fashion accessory to hold up his trousers…these are the lingerie must have to hold up your lady’s stockings.

And by trousers…over there in the US of A, you’ll know them better as pants. You can use belt and/or braces to hold up your pants if you wish, but here in the birthplace of the English language, we just rely on good old fashioned knicker elastic in the waist band to do the job!

Sorry - not much help to wire colouring and LSR etc… if you’d fitted after market oxford grips, you’d be out riding and not still trying to understand the German design engineers logic. But where’s the fun in that?


__________________________________________________
Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Uk-log10 Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Sco-lo15
                              Paul  Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) 905546712

"Heidi" K100LT 1991 (Grey) (VIN 0190172 Engine No. 104EB 2590 2213) - 5th owner. January 2014 (34,000 - 61,000 miles and counting....)
"Gretel" K100LT 1989 (Silver Grey) (VIN 0177324 Engine No. 104EA 2789 2211) - 4th+ owner. September 2015 (58,500miles and counting....). Cat C Insurance write-off rebuild Feb 17
"Donor" K100LT 1990 (Red)  (VIN 0178091 Engine No. 4489 2024) - 6th & final owner (crash write-off now donor bike).   June 2012 (73,000 miles) to November 2013 (89,500 miles)
    

45Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Wed Feb 09, 2022 7:44 am

Dai

Dai
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Born Again Eccentric wrote:Braces: an mechanical orthodontic device that clamps on crooked teeth to get them aligned. Don’t apply these to your trousers as they really will not help at all, no matter how crooked your trousers are.
I barely resisted the idea to come up with a quip about braces helping you to chew nuts, but didn't.

Almost.

BMW don't use brown/grey anywhere, so I'm gonna ask for a piccy or two of what you think is the LSR. That's got to be the easiest way to nail this problem.


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec, 1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

46Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Wed Feb 09, 2022 10:24 am

Laitch

Laitch
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Born Again Eccentric wrote:Suspenders: No, these aren’t the gentleman’s fashion accessory to hold up his trousers…these are the lingerie must have to hold up your lady’s stockings.

And by trousers…over there in the US of A, you’ll know them better as pants.
I should have written galluses; it has cross-cultural implications. Smile Trousers is widely used over here; in fact, there's a well-known American anthem originally sung by the Firesign Theater players that goes,
This land has lots of trousers,
This land has lots of mausers,
And pussy cats to eat them
when the sun goes down! 


Hands across the sea. cheers


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 81,000 miles
Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Usa-lo10
    

47Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Wed Feb 09, 2022 3:43 pm

jjefferies

jjefferies
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Born Again Eccentric wrote:Oh dear, two great nations divided by a common language…

Belt & Braces: 2 independent control methods…i.e. a belt holds your trousers up by fastening securely around your waist. Braces - elasticated straps that go over the shoulders and fasten to the front and back of your trousers to hold them up. You don’t need both to hold your trousers up…but if you use both, you can be pretty sure they ain’t gonna fall down even if one fails!

Braces: an mechanical orthodontic device that clamps on crooked teeth to get them aligned. Don’t apply these to your trousers as they really will not help at all, no matter how crooked your trousers are.

Suspenders: No, these aren’t the gentleman’s fashion accessory to hold up his trousers…these are the lingerie must have to hold up your lady’s stockings.

And by trousers…over there in the US of A, you’ll know them better as pants. You can use belt and/or braces to hold up your pants if you wish, but here in the birthplace of the English language, we just rely on good old fashioned knicker elastic in the waist band to do the job!

Sorry - not much help to wire colouring and LSR etc… if you’d fitted after market oxford grips, you’d be out riding and not still trying to understand the German design engineers logic. But where’s the fun in that?
Not to blow your mind but I have at least six(6) pair of knickers that I wear publicly almost daily. In the US, this is the term applied to loose pants that one wears when fencing, aka sword fighting. They're made of right heavy duty material to prevent penetration of my skin by young men and the occasional female with wicked intentions.   What a Face

    

48Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Wed Feb 09, 2022 4:45 pm

jjefferies

jjefferies
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Dai wrote:BMW don't use brown/grey anywhere, so I'm gonna ask for a piccy or two of what you think is the LSR. That's got to be the easiest way to nail this problem.
1. It could be eye issues in the dark that saw brown and grey. Will recheck.
2. Dai, sadly I have yet to conquer getting piccy's onto this website. I've tried multiple times before just giving up.

    

49Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Re: Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Wed Feb 09, 2022 9:27 pm

jjefferies

jjefferies
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Ok Dai, the colors on pin #30 were green with Brown stripe. The box is appears below and what I believe is the load shedding relay is the #2 from the right relay. My current thinking is to run the hot wire (Red) and the ground (brown) from the white plug which I believe is the alarm system to a relay to be inserted under the 2nd from the left screw.

 Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Silver10

Thanks Laitch, I finally got the photo uploaded. Is this a different system?

    

50Back to top Go down   Heated Handgrips (thread Nth ) Empty Heated grips Wed Feb 09, 2022 9:48 pm

daveyson

daveyson
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Your set up is pretty typical.

To me, second relay from the right reley means the first relay on the left, that's the fuel relay. It has five pins, the top middle (four pins) is the load shed relay. The top right (identical to lsr) is the horn relay. 

The fuel relay has green/red wires, not green/brown.

This reminds me, for years I only needed glasses for being short sighted. Years later it wasn't easy to tell a red or brown stripe on a wire, then it dawned on me once again - I'm getting old - there's another part of my body that's turning to shit.


__________________________________________________
11/1985 bmw k100rt (late model)  Vin. 0090567
 ~120,000 km
    

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