Hi,

Below are some pictures of my final drive splines. I'd like your opinion on whether these splines are worn enough to warrant rebuilding. If the concensus is yes, I'll pack the drive up for shipment to Bruno's. Thanks.

Definately in need of repair Rob. It would go for quite some time yet but now is the time to do it as any futher wear may render it unrepairable.

looking a bit shark toothy in the first pic rob ...

i´ve seen worse,
clean ist , & Staburags & thats it .

no reason to waste money - good for another 30t km
but keep an anual eye & staburagas on that

the spline on the final drive is harder than the shaft.

but:

I'll pack the drive up for shipment to Bruno's

does somone here repair the spline on the shaft ???

zonenfeile wrote:does someone here repair the spline on the shaft ???

Bruno's Machine and Repair

He rebuilds drive shaft splines on European and Japanese bikes. Results are better than OEM for less than half the cost of new parts. Bruno's is just the other side of the Province for me so cheap to ship as well.

sounds good
does someone have pics "before " and "after " repairing ??

welding heat near the rubber ??

any idea concerning the cost ?

Yep, in Oz we have a tech term for that condition Zon,.............. shagged. Pack it up and send it to Brunos, I stuck the details on the other post but Robmack also nailed them here. I reckon they must do great work. Perhaps Bert knows of them ? If anyone thinks that condition is OK, I can assure them that when repaired/replaced the whole driveline is smmother and vibration-free. The sharks tooth effect it from eccentric running (or climbing) during operation, which produces the fretting corrosion. All the lube in the world won't help now because the spline assembly is seeing point contact resulting in extreme pressure at those points and degredation will soon accelerate.

10 years ago, I had the splines of the K75 rebuilt by Bruno's. (it's still in perfect condition)
I don't have any pictures, but the job was top quality.

Here is his web site with the explanation of the modification.

I passed the photos on to Bruno and asked for his informed opinion. He suggested a drive shaft spline rebuild only which would preserve the final drive pinion, since that was in not bad shape. So, based on what others have said here and his advice, I think I'll at least go for the drive shaft spline rebuild this year and see how things go over the next 50000 km.

Thanks a great deal.

Robmack,

This is what I call honesty!
This guy will not try to have you spending money when not needed.
This is why I have always recommended him. Just my experience, and I've never heard any complain about his job or service.
If he finds something else wrong, he will point the problem to you and ask if you want to fix it (at extra cost).
Your shaft is in good hands and I wish that we have more people that we can rely on like Bruno.

CF

Bit the bullet the other day and decided to pull the swingarm off and lube the gearbox end of the drive shaft. All with the great assistance of bro Tom, who only recently did the same to K75.

Inspection of the final drive end of the drive shaft revealed the following...



Aaaagh!! Fuctus Cactus Maximus!!

Phone calls to the BM Shop in Brisvegas...$590 for a second hand one in good condition.
Call to Munich Motorcycles in Perth...$300 to weld on a new spline.
Call to Brisans (Newcastle)...$950, 6 weeks delivery!!!
Motobins in the UK...repaired only, GBP159.
Brunos in Canada replied to my email, still lots of roubles.

Bro Tom has a mate working in a motorcycle wrecking shop in Newcastle...phone call...yep. I just happen to have one here, and in pretty good nick. You're not going to believe this...$80!!

Sold, all lubed with the correct stuff, all back together, a few laps around the block and going great!

The "slack" in rotational movement of the rear wheel, in 1st gear on the centre stand, has reduced from 72mm to 60mm.

Thanx, Tom!!

Good score Ulrich!

thats marvelous ulrick ...i recon you two did well there ...

good onya tom

Hi Ulrich,

Where did you measure the rotational movement in the rear wheel?

As the further out from the hub the larger the distance measured. I'm guessing the road surface area of the tyre, but thought I'd ask.

Just thought I'd check mine to compare.

Regards Bushy

bushy we did a little survey a while back .....put bike on centre stand and in first gear ,,,,at the outside of the tyre ...markit at one end of the travel (slack takeup of drive train ) then go to the other end of travel by mooving the rear wheel and mark it ..(in the same place in relation to the ground ) then measure the distance ....50 odd mm seems to be verry common

G'day Charlie,Thanks for that info.on measuring the "slack" rotational movement in the rear wheel.Will do a measurement.ASAP. Yep,that driveshaft Rick bought was a bargain...nearly feel like throwing in a carton of beer as well......Cheers Tom

What's that old saying.. If you don't know how something works,you have no chance of fixing it.. how true

G'day Olaf,Just found out various types of Starburags are available from Browns Transmission & Bearing Co. Which one do you use for the driveshaft splines? Star....NBU12., NBU12/300 or NBU30.Vielen Dank aus Newcastle Australien. Tom

robmack wrote:I passed the photos on to Bruno and asked for his informed opinion. He suggested a drive shaft spline rebuild only which would preserve the final drive pinion, since that was in not bad shape. So, based on what others have said here and his advice, I think I'll at least go for the drive shaft spline rebuild this year and see how things go over the next 50000 km.

Thanks a great deal.

good work rob ...better to catch it before it develops too far ...cheers

Clymer shows Staburags NBU 30 as a spline lube.

I have been trying to read all the comments on spline lube since discovering this great forum and not realising how IMPORTANT SPLINE LUBE SERVICE IS. I went into a panic as mine has never been done since new. Got stuck into it fearing the worst and what a pleasant surprise to have found it looking like new. Having looked at all the photos posted I am sorry that I did not take any of what mine looked like. The only explanation I could venture is the fact that I am 700Km away from the coast and at a altitude of 1240metres above sea level with no humidity conseqently No Rust on the bike and it is very seldom that you have to ride in the rain. Anual rainfall +- 600mm It would be interesting to hear comments/opinions on dry versus wet/high humidity climates effect on Spline Wear.

In theory it shouldn't make any difference but I would say that condensation from high humidity would help get some moisture in and so some detetioration of the grease but probably no where near as much as wety weather would cause.

I received the repaired drive shaft today. The work looks top-notch.

This shows how he welded on a new spline after cutting off the old one.


This shows the perfect splines as well as the grease cup. It was further down the shaft than I had imagined. It certainly won't retain the grease within the spines but will stop it migrating down the drive shaft.


I'm looking forward to buttoning up the final drive on the bike this weekend.

G'day Charlie,Managed to get around to measuring the rotational 'slack' in the back wheel.Turned out to be about 48mm.So all seems good in that department.Cheers Tom

sounds good tom ...that falls to the lower side of the casual measurements i have noticed ....good onya !!!





great work rob ....just be aware of the length of the new splines .....i had a repaired one also that i obtained .... the additional spline length bound on the pinion in the normal unloaded position by about 3mm .

all im sugesting is have a look at the whole thing as you do the drive shaft up again ...would hate to see someone riding round with the spline binding on the end of the pinion and causing far more wear than we could possibly imagine .

just a heads up

Robert, I've just measured a standard shaft and the distance from the rubber to the end is 59mm.
(Prompted by charlie's advice)
Cheers,
Paul.

nice one paul...

Okay guys my pinion shaft on the final drive is shot. Already had a new spline put on the shaft (not used yet). I was hoping to get a new crown and pinion for my diff. No luck so then I thought maybe a new diff. Again no luck.

Now to the question. Has anyone in Aust had a pinion shaft repaired by Brunos recently and if so how much did it cost including postage there and back?

Cheers for any help.

Sry Dave I'd like to know as well.
Here's my spares bike shaft for an opinion as well, might as well get a group hug in case I find out my real bike is shagged.

Input end above.

Output end (final drive thingo).
RT

That spline on the output end looks much better than mine did. The only problems is my pinion shaft on my diff is knackered as well.

The other thing to check is the uni joint. The bloke getting my shaft done for me said the uni was OK so at least that is one good piece of news.

As C.Dave says it could be smart to check the uni joint:



Inge K.

I had one like that after 4 years use as an outfit. Expecting it to be a regular problem I bought a new one as a spare for the next time it failed......... I'm still waiting 20 years on.
Paul.

The universal looks fine but that's just me staring at it. Maybe I'll get
someone to look at it before I replace it.
I thought I'd swap this one over to my bike and get the old one cut and welded as a way of getting it done without being off the road for too long. I'm sure to find something else while I'm in there. My tyre puncture turned out to be a small Allen key, not mine I have to say. I can't believe it was able to flip up and stick in. Fixed it myself with my
trusty repair kit. At least I know I can do that on the road now.
Cheers.

Nice to have the confidence that comes with knowing you can repair something on the road. RT.

RT, I have a mate who told me the Uni joint can be repaired without cutting and welding. Evidently the uni is one that is used in a tractor of some description.

I will get the details and post them up.

I have been told that the uni joint for the K100 is available from a place in Fyshwick, Canberra called Tractor Repairs. I would hazard you will need to take the old one in to match it up. I do not have part number, sorry.

makes sence dave ..i have seen lots of uni joints of similar size ,,,on pto's on the back of tractors

On me Algenon, I'm going in.
So much rain here so I decided to get this done (started anyway).
Got the shaft out and it looks ordinary, so will replace with my spare one for now. I have a question before I get the swing arm undone.
Is it necessary to disconnect the clutch cable at the arm end in order to take the swingarm off? The book says to but also says to take muffler off which isn't necessary. I don't want to upset anything that's working well. (also cannot get the screws out of the Disc rotor to replace it, they have burred.? Maybe a freeze spray.)
Thanks
RT

hey rt ....why do you need to get the disk off ?

all that you need to do ...

rear mudguard off ....2 screws and 2 nuts in the tailpiece

rear wheel off ....4 bolts ....put it in first to undo them

undo the caliper fully (2 screws )

get hockey straps to support the swing arm while you remove the rear

wrap them over the seat and swing arm and tension them up

drive suspension /shock absorber 1 bolt

the 4 bolts round final drive housing ...including the disk

pull the drive shaft out

side foot plates off .. 3 bolts each side + panier frames 2 x 2 bolts

3 bolts on the right side swing arm retainer

big bolt on the left side

the whole thing should fall on the floor....oops put a cushion there first huh ?

Hi RT,
You'll probably have to drill out the disc screws, countersunk screws have such a large surface area to grip.
Being socket heads the drill will be centred OK and you will be left with about 3mm sticking out of the rear drive, which, with heat/release oil should come out without too much trouble. (He said hopefully).
Good luck,
Paul.

Sorry Charlie forgot to mention my rotor is 3mm which may explain lack of braking in the rear. My spares bike is a whopping 3.5 mm so thought I'd do a quick changeover. No such luck. I need to buy a new one anyway but now I've screwed the pooch. I shouldn't have mentioned those soft screws in another post a while ago. A pox upon myself. You didn't mention the clutch cable? I'll take that as a no.
Thanks Sidecar Paul, I thought as much. I have the final drive off so may as well do the lot.
Cheers and good night from me.

sorry rt... forgot that bit ...you may find it advantageous to release the clutch cable, i think the swing arm fits in behind it ...easy as though ...you dont have to remove it completly

A tip: before removing the LHS svingarm hinge bolt, clean (and lubricate)
the threads that is visible between the gearbox and svingarm...
with a stiff toothbrush or similar....fine thread aluminium bolt.

Inge K.

good tip inge would not take much to wreck the bolt

Don`t ask me how I know..........

Inge K.

as long as we learn from our mistakes sorry i mean others mistakes

The mistake was....that it wasn`t my bike......

Inge K.

ouch that would have hurt the pride a bit

sidecar paul wrote:Hi RT,
You'll probably have to drill out the disc screws, countersunk screws have such a large surface area to grip.
Being socket heads the drill will be centred OK and you will be left with about 3mm sticking out of the rear drive, which, with heat/release oil should come out without too much trouble. (He said hopefully).
Good luck,
Paul.

I replaced my disc about 3 month ago. to remove the countersunk screws, I used a centre punch on the head of the screw. You may also have to use a regular punch and 'wack' the screw head really hard. This may free up the thread. Don't expect to get the screws off just with the 5 or 6mm allen key.

Be very mindful about "taking a centre punch to the c/sunk head screws and giving them a good hard wack". You will be transmitting the impact forces through the FD crown bearings and it's possible to introduce a condition called false brinelling. This is the start of premature bearing failure as it causes an indentation in both bearing raceways at the pitch of the rolling bearing elements (balls or rollers). Easy to do becuase the bearings are not visible to remind us of the consequences. In this instance it's better to apply intense, localised heat (say No. 12 oxy welding tip) to the centre of the c/sunk head screw then undo as normal. Normally the direct hit on the head works well, as long as no other damage can be done.

Ok all taken on board, I have the beast apart, and Inge's tip about cleaning that thread was great. Swing arm off but it was too dark to check the output shaft so today will tell the truth. Then I can attack the rotor.
Too much rain going on here at the moment so I'm not missing any riding.
Cheers RT