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1Back to top Go down   Self cancelling signals that don't Empty Self cancelling signals that don't Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:26 pm

klamityboy

klamityboy
Gold member
Gold member
It is with some surprise that I read about self cancelling signals. I have had my bike for over 15 years and it never occurred to me that this existed. With some excitement I anticipated the thrill of turning and not having to push the side of my right thumb up to turn off the signals. Now off to test. First a right turn, signal on, signal still on, speed up a bit, signal still on, have now travelled 500m with signal blinking, starting to feel like an idiot, apologize to right thumb and manually cancel the signal. Perhaps the left signal will self cancel thus reducing wear-and-tear on my thumb by 50%. Here we go, left turn signal on, blinking, turn completed, signal still blinking, sped up to 30km/h, 40km/h, still blinking, approaching 50 km/h, defeated feeling, manually cancel signal. Are there versions of K75's that do not have self-cancelling signals? Are both signal relays defective?


__________________________________________________
Klamityboy
1991 K75RT-P

Model Description: K 75RT
Market: Europe
Type: 0565
E-Code: K569
Engine: 3_ZYL - 0,70l (55kW)
Transmission: Manual
Body Color: Polizeiweiss
Production Date: 30.08.1990
    

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
It's the same circuit.  The speedo/tach sends some sort of signal(???) through a blue/green wire to the flasher relay..  It's possible that a prior owner snipped that wire to disable that feature.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

Inge K.

Inge K.
VIP
VIP
Could start with checking the continuity between the contacts at each end of the wire......contact #21 at the rearside of the instrument and contact I in the relay socket.

See that you got a police model....maybe this function is disabled on these
models, just guessing.


Self cancelling signals that don't Kontak10
Self cancelling signals that don't Rela10


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

tgolden

tgolden
Silver member
Silver member
I read an article somewhere that explained a way to test the self-cancelling feature of the turn signals. I can't find it at the moment.

Firstly, I would check the wiring as suggested to determine if the bike is wired for self-cancelling turn signals. Also, check to ensure you have all the correct system components. I believe there are relays involved. The available wiring diagrams should be consulted. Then, I'd check for continuity at each end of the system's wire connections and clean the contacts and all grounds. Test your relays.

Look for the specs on the feature. The signals cancel after a certain time or distance depending on the vehicles speed. The instrument cluster is a key component of the system. You should be able to put the bike on the center stand, start and place in gear to simulate actual riding and activate the turn signals to see if they cancel. If you've got a multimeter with current clamp, you should be able to determine if the signal is being generated from the instrument cluster. A scope would be even better.

I'll try to find that article. I usually save that type of information, but I can't find it.

Good luck with your troubleshooting.

Regards


__________________________________________________
1985 K100RS USA Model WB1051300F0042533 - Original Owner
Delivery: 04/85 - Motorradhaus Ebert, Höchberg, Deutschland
    

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
The only relay involved is that flasher relay.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

tgolden

tgolden
Silver member
Silver member
Following the simple rule to check the obvious first, I would focus on the flasher unit and the connection to the speedometer. From looking at the interactive wiring diagram for the '85 K100RT, check the green/blue conductor from the speedometer/instrument cluster to the flasher unit. Just because all other features of the flasher unit are functioning, I wouldn't assume the self-cancelling feature of the flasher unit is good. If you can swap out flasher units, it would help to isolate the problem. You should also check to see if there is a signal in the green/blue conductor when the self-cancelling feature should function.

Good luck with your efforts to resolve this issue.

Regards


__________________________________________________
1985 K100RS USA Model WB1051300F0042533 - Original Owner
Delivery: 04/85 - Motorradhaus Ebert, Höchberg, Deutschland
    

tgolden

tgolden
Silver member
Silver member
This information should be helpful to know what you are looking for if you decide to test the bike in gear on the center stand.

Per the Rider's Handbook:

Self-cancelling turn indicators

The left or right flashing turn indicators are cancelled automatically after a certain time or distance if this is not done by pressing the turn signal indicator cancel switch. 1. After approximately ten seconds at main-road speeds - above about 50 km/h (31 mile/h), or 2. after approximately 210 m (690 ft) in local or slow-moving traffic.



Last edited by tgolden on Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:22 pm; edited 1 time in total


__________________________________________________
1985 K100RS USA Model WB1051300F0042533 - Original Owner
Delivery: 04/85 - Motorradhaus Ebert, Höchberg, Deutschland
    

klamityboy

klamityboy
Gold member
Gold member
Thanks for this. Will investigate under the tank and report back.


__________________________________________________
Klamityboy
1991 K75RT-P

Model Description: K 75RT
Market: Europe
Type: 0565
E-Code: K569
Engine: 3_ZYL - 0,70l (55kW)
Transmission: Manual
Body Color: Polizeiweiss
Production Date: 30.08.1990
    

9Back to top Go down   Self cancelling signals that don't Empty Re: Self cancelling signals that don't Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:10 pm

tgolden

tgolden
Silver member
Silver member
Another good place to check is the multi-pin connector on the back of the instrument cluster. These connectors have had issues since the 80s. It's not uncommon to have one pin not making a good connection. You should clean the connector, both sides and deoxidize it as well. I think I recall that providing a little twist to the male prongs with a pair of needle nose pliers helps ensure they make a good electrical contact in the female socket. I believe the pins have a square cross-section. If this resolves the issue, I would apply some dielectric grease to the connector to help prevent oxidation and corrosion.

Regards


__________________________________________________
1985 K100RS USA Model WB1051300F0042533 - Original Owner
Delivery: 04/85 - Motorradhaus Ebert, Höchberg, Deutschland
    

10Back to top Go down   Self cancelling signals that don't Empty Re: Self cancelling signals that don't Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:56 pm

BritMotorWorx

BritMotorWorx
active member
active member
I thought to myself this German indicator idea on my K100 is stupid but thanks Klamityboy for pointing out the error as I have the same problem, and my right thumb looks like it is on steroids!
Thanks duck as the wire on mine had indeed been cut to disable the feature .... WHY????      All going now thanks guys.    Self cancelling signals that don't 112350 


__________________________________________________
1986 K100 RT Cafe Racer
    

11Back to top Go down   Self cancelling signals that don't Empty Re: Self cancelling signals that don't Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:03 pm

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
@BritMotorWorx wrote:I thought to myself this German indicator idea on my K100 is stupid but thanks Klamityboy for pointing out the error as I have the same problem, and my right thumb looks like it is on steroids!
Thanks duck as the wire on mine had indeed been cut to disable the feature .... WHY????      All going now thanks guys.    Self cancelling signals that don't 112350 

Why? Some people don't like it - myself included.  I think it turns them off too early sometimes.  If I'm doing 70 I will signal well before the turn so whoever is behind me knows what I'm up to.  The turn signal will auto-cancel before I get to the turn.  

The other time is multi-lane changes on the freeway.  I want my turn signal to stay on as I work on getting across.  

If I didn't have Kisan SignalMinders on my bikes and used the OEM relay then I would probably disable it too.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT (x2)
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

12Back to top Go down   Self cancelling signals that don't Empty Re: Self cancelling signals that don't Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:27 pm

klamityboy

klamityboy
Gold member
Gold member
Had the tank off today. Checked continuity between "I" on the relay and pin 21 on the instrument cluster. Nice tone on the multimeter, no breaks. Cleaned both connectors with detoxit and reassembled. Haven't had a chance to ride the bike as I am still working on interim tante heated grip issue. Any other thoughts on what to test for the self canceling signals?

Thanks


__________________________________________________
Klamityboy
1991 K75RT-P

Model Description: K 75RT
Market: Europe
Type: 0565
E-Code: K569
Engine: 3_ZYL - 0,70l (55kW)
Transmission: Manual
Body Color: Polizeiweiss
Production Date: 30.08.1990
    

13Back to top Go down   Self cancelling signals that don't Empty Re: Self cancelling signals that don't Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:30 pm

tgolden

tgolden
Silver member
Silver member
Start the bike on center stand, put in gear and throttle up to speed to see if they cancel.


__________________________________________________
1985 K100RS USA Model WB1051300F0042533 - Original Owner
Delivery: 04/85 - Motorradhaus Ebert, Höchberg, Deutschland
    

14Back to top Go down   Self cancelling signals that don't Empty Re: Self cancelling signals that don't Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:43 pm

Inge K.

Inge K.
VIP
VIP
If your speedo and odo function as normal.......you could check if you got signal to the relay socket using a LED.

Next would be to open the relay and check for dry solder points, shorts......


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

15Back to top Go down   Self cancelling signals that don't Empty Re: Self cancelling signals that don't Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:13 am

MikeP

MikeP
Life time member
Life time member
@duck wrote:
Why? Some people don't like it - myself included.  I think it turns them off too early sometimes.  If I'm doing 70 I will signal well before the turn so whoever is behind me knows what I'm up to.  The turn signal will auto-cancel before I get to the turn.

True enough on fast roads but I've never found it self-cancelling too soon at any other time.

The simple answer on dual-carriageways and motorways in most of Europe (where the exits are marked by countdown markers) is to dab it at the 300m marker, then again at the 200 marker. I find that just after I've crossed into the slip-road, the self-cancelling does its job.

Any other time I resort to the cancel button.


__________________________________________________
1992 K1
1993 K1100R (used to be an LT)
    

16Back to top Go down   Self cancelling signals that don't Empty Re: Self cancelling signals that don't Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:54 am

klamityboy

klamityboy
Gold member
Gold member
Thanks Inge. Not sure I am up to opening the relay!   Shocked 

To be honest, I didn't even know that self-cancelling signals existed before a couple of days ago, so if it was an easy fix I was up for it. 
Even if I fixed the issue, the new feature may have driven me nuts and I might have been looking to reverse the fix. 

The contents of my helmet seem to do a pretty good job of keeping the signal on when needed and turning them off at the appropriate moment. 


Perhaps I will look for a Kisan signalmindsr as I like the idea of LEDs and the brake light flash option.


__________________________________________________
Klamityboy
1991 K75RT-P

Model Description: K 75RT
Market: Europe
Type: 0565
E-Code: K569
Engine: 3_ZYL - 0,70l (55kW)
Transmission: Manual
Body Color: Polizeiweiss
Production Date: 30.08.1990
    

17Back to top Go down   Self cancelling signals that don't Empty Re: Self cancelling signals that don't Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:33 pm

klamityboy

klamityboy
Gold member
Gold member
@klamityboy wrote:Thanks Inge. Not sure I am up to opening the relay!   Shocked 

To be honest, I didn't even know that self-cancelling signals existed before a couple of days ago, so if it was an easy fix I was up for it. 
Even if I fixed the issue, the new feature may have driven me nuts and I might have been looking to reverse the fix. 

The contents of my helmet seem to do a pretty good job of keeping the signal on when needed and turning them off at the appropriate moment. 


Perhaps I will look for a Kisan signalmindsr as I like the idea of LEDs and the brake light flash option.
Well freezing rain and snow here today so testing whether the process of taking apart and putting back together somehow fixed the self-cancelling signals. Often this is the case with me. I never really get the satisfaction of actually fixing a problem or knowing that the problem is resolved. There must be some kind of Murphy's corollary to describe this. Tomorrow the forecast is for torrential rain so I will get a chance to test tomorrow.


__________________________________________________
Klamityboy
1991 K75RT-P

Model Description: K 75RT
Market: Europe
Type: 0565
E-Code: K569
Engine: 3_ZYL - 0,70l (55kW)
Transmission: Manual
Body Color: Polizeiweiss
Production Date: 30.08.1990
    

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