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1Back to top Go down   oil on r/h side of pump Empty oil on r/h side of pump Thu Dec 22, 2022 9:32 am

tinyspuds

tinyspuds
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Finally warm enough to get out and investigate the contaminated moly on the final drive splines and found a smallish oil slick under the engine. I have a really mucky residue on the r/h (facing forward) upper quadrant of the oil/water pump. The oil filter cover is slick with fresh oil and clearly the source of the drip but probs not the leak.
I’ve scrubbed the sump, filter cover and water pump with degreaser and will dry that  off and spread some talc around. I’ve seen the posts about leaks around the l/h bottom quadrant but nothing for the opposite.

Views please on possible sources of the leak.

Is there a realistic track from the water pump down to the sump or have I got two issues (the oil filter cover bolts are tight but it will get the talc treatment too).

Last trip was a 200 miler and oil in the sight glass has gone fron 2/3 full to 1/3.


Prepping for a Feb trip so guidance appreciated as a big job may need me to change focus to the other bike. Cheers oil on r/h side of pump 212902

oil on r/h side of pump 91c02110


__________________________________________________
1985 BMW K100RT + Hedingham HUB and LL’s. VIN 0028106.
1986 K100RS in boxes. VIN 0141918.
1954 Royal Enfield 350 Bullet. Original.
2000 Hayabusa with Charnwood chair, Wasp forks and EZS wheels.
    

2Back to top Go down   oil on r/h side of pump Empty Re: oil on r/h side of pump Thu Dec 22, 2022 10:00 am

Dai

Dai
Life time member
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My memory's £0.02p says that the cover needs resealing.


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec, 1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

3Back to top Go down   oil on r/h side of pump Empty Re: oil on r/h side of pump Thu Dec 22, 2022 10:20 am

tinyspuds

tinyspuds
Life time member
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Dai wrote:My memory's £0.02p says that the cover needs resealing.
Thanks Dai, I’d be a very happy bunny if thats all it is, but isn’t it just water in the outer half?
I have a pump on my spare engine and may refurb that while I’m at it. 
You Dragonning?


__________________________________________________
1985 BMW K100RT + Hedingham HUB and LL’s. VIN 0028106.
1986 K100RS in boxes. VIN 0141918.
1954 Royal Enfield 350 Bullet. Original.
2000 Hayabusa with Charnwood chair, Wasp forks and EZS wheels.
    

4Back to top Go down   oil on r/h side of pump Empty Re: oil on r/h side of pump Thu Dec 22, 2022 3:11 pm

Dai

Dai
Life time member
Life time member
Yes and yes. Have to admit, this is likely to be my last Dragon. All the fun and adventure has gone out of it, mostly due to the Nanny State's H&S rules. The cost of getting across the Irish Sea doesn't help either. Conwy MCC can't have a bonfire because - heaven forbid! - someone might be under the influence of alcohol and within fifty feet of the fire. Campfires were banned years ago, again because of the same stupid H&S rules. In forty years I've done 34 of them; 34 in 38 if you take out the Covid years. I have a large collection of Dragon badges, empty whiskey bottles from the goodie bags that are still covered in mud and slate coasters from various years. Will I be sad to quit? Sort of, but not much given the above.


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec, 1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

5Back to top Go down   oil on r/h side of pump Empty Re: oil on r/h side of pump Thu Dec 22, 2022 3:26 pm

tinyspuds

tinyspuds
Life time member
Life time member
Ta. Does your first yes mean you’ve changed your diagnosis on the cover seal?

 I’ll get it off anyway, cos I have nowhere else to go with it and I’ve never inspected the impeller, shaft or seals. 

On your second I agree about the ferry, would love to come to Ireland but its almost as silly money as the IOM, so I’m taking the Busa to France this Summer. Hopefully we’ll catch up in Feb. 

All feeling a bit daunting atm as I probs have to get the swingarm off as well to understand what has contaminated the splines. This is the first time the K has felt like I have a mountain to climb since I brought it back to life, shame as its such a brilliant ride.


__________________________________________________
1985 BMW K100RT + Hedingham HUB and LL’s. VIN 0028106.
1986 K100RS in boxes. VIN 0141918.
1954 Royal Enfield 350 Bullet. Original.
2000 Hayabusa with Charnwood chair, Wasp forks and EZS wheels.
    

6Back to top Go down   oil on r/h side of pump Empty Re: oil on r/h side of pump Sat Dec 24, 2022 7:00 am

Dai

Dai
Life time member
Life time member
The one time I had oil round the engine like that turned out to be very little oil, quite a lot of coolant and even more cow droppings. Given how easy it is to remove the pumps, I'd think about replacing the gasket on the oil pump side.


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec, 1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

7Back to top Go down   oil on r/h side of pump Empty Re: oil on r/h side of pump Fri Jan 20, 2023 10:20 am

tinyspuds

tinyspuds
Life time member
Life time member
It was inevitable that I would be back. 
Took the pump off, 70k miles and it was the old style nut in shaft. Seals completely brittle, metal parts exposed and shaft scored more than .5mm deep. New shaft, gear, impeller and seals kit. Job done all back together. I have the older style pump without the u shaped groove, so I haven’t bunged that up.

oil on r/h side of pump 539e7310

The pressure light has the normal flickery glow at tickover and cold but as it warms up past needing the cold start lever the light comes full on. Oil disappears on start and drains back to sump when cooled.

Please test (kick the crap out of) my assumptions:

1. Given that the light is out at tickover and above during warm up and only comes on after about 10 minutes I assume the switch is working?

2. Given that oil disappears as normal when running and returns to sump as normal when cooled then the pump is circulating (some) oil?

3. Given that oil isn’t cascading from the pump faces then as 2.?

4. It’s -3c here atm, could that have a bearing (20w50 pure dino)?

5. The water temp guage is working so presumably I have routed the sensor wirings ok?

6. The new impeller and shaft turn without issue but they don’t spin freely by hand, could that reduce pump efficiency? (I did disassemble them both a couple of times but couldn’t really see anyway to do it differently - do they need running in?

6. Having scoured all the relevant posts I could find - do I even need the the tell tale?

I can’t get the bike into my workshop atm and, see 4 above, I don’t really want to strip the pump out and refit on speculation (the sidecar subframe makes the job a bit of a chore, especially when the metal tools cause frost bite).

Any thoughts on possible causes please? 

TIA.


__________________________________________________
1985 BMW K100RT + Hedingham HUB and LL’s. VIN 0028106.
1986 K100RS in boxes. VIN 0141918.
1954 Royal Enfield 350 Bullet. Original.
2000 Hayabusa with Charnwood chair, Wasp forks and EZS wheels.
    

8Back to top Go down   oil on r/h side of pump Empty Re: oil on r/h side of pump Fri Jan 20, 2023 11:08 am

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
Life time member
In Canterbury's winter climate I'd be using 10w-30 or 10w-40 for the November through March riding season. Those grades are easier on the engine for cold starts/winter running and keep the engine cleaner.

The telltale light's flickery glow is a fault symptom. My first consideration would be that the oil pressure warning light is indicating the oil pressure switch could be gummed up, its internal electrical connections or wire connection to the instrument cluster could be faulty. Remove the switch, clean it, test it and replace it if necessary. 

Here's an explanation with an appealing and rhythmic It goes there, it goes there refrain suitable for dancing while diagnosing. 


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 81,000 miles
oil on r/h side of pump Usa-lo10
    

9Back to top Go down   oil on r/h side of pump Empty Re: oil on r/h side of pump Fri Jan 20, 2023 11:49 am

tinyspuds

tinyspuds
Life time member
Life time member
Thanks Laitch


__________________________________________________
1985 BMW K100RT + Hedingham HUB and LL’s. VIN 0028106.
1986 K100RS in boxes. VIN 0141918.
1954 Royal Enfield 350 Bullet. Original.
2000 Hayabusa with Charnwood chair, Wasp forks and EZS wheels.
    

10Back to top Go down   oil on r/h side of pump Empty Re: oil on r/h side of pump Fri Jan 20, 2023 12:26 pm

Dai

Dai
Life time member
Life time member
Stu - did you push the big gear down hard, or did you push it down hard and then give it a tap from the back side to ensure it turns freely?


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec, 1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

11Back to top Go down   oil on r/h side of pump Empty Re: oil on r/h side of pump Fri Jan 20, 2023 12:46 pm

tinyspuds

tinyspuds
Life time member
Life time member
Yeah did that a couple of times to different depths (cos I over egged it on 1st fit). Settled on getting the gear teeth flush with the pump face. TBH no position made it operate any freer so I just did what seemed sensible. I’ll do the switch test and clean and work out the wiring route for a potential replace (the old one feels pretty brittle), which I should have done anyway Embarassed. I think I can only spare a couple of days before I need to switch focus to getting the Busa prepped for the Dragon instead. I’ll miss the Ks heated grips tho’.


__________________________________________________
1985 BMW K100RT + Hedingham HUB and LL’s. VIN 0028106.
1986 K100RS in boxes. VIN 0141918.
1954 Royal Enfield 350 Bullet. Original.
2000 Hayabusa with Charnwood chair, Wasp forks and EZS wheels.
    

12Back to top Go down   oil on r/h side of pump Empty Re: oil on r/h side of pump Fri Jan 20, 2023 1:37 pm

Dai

Dai
Life time member
Life time member
Trust me - stuffing wires down through the oil pump is quite easy but you will need to take the front cover off. There's a big hole on the back side of the casting where they run through - dead easy to see when lying under the bike. Have a pair of thin long-nose pliers to hand just in case the wire decides to get hooked up on the casting.


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec, 1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

13Back to top Go down   oil on r/h side of pump Empty Re: oil on r/h side of pump Fri Jan 20, 2023 1:40 pm

tinyspuds

tinyspuds
Life time member
Life time member
Had to do that when I put the pump back on, just never thought to check the where the other end routed first.


__________________________________________________
1985 BMW K100RT + Hedingham HUB and LL’s. VIN 0028106.
1986 K100RS in boxes. VIN 0141918.
1954 Royal Enfield 350 Bullet. Original.
2000 Hayabusa with Charnwood chair, Wasp forks and EZS wheels.
    

14Back to top Go down   oil on r/h side of pump Empty Re: oil on r/h side of pump Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:34 pm

Dai

Dai
Life time member
Life time member
Next to the r/h switch connector block. It's a small black single-way connector about an inch long. The connector block is unobtanium so I'd switch it for a 3.6mm 'Japanese' bullet connector.

Oh yeah - you'll have to take the HES cover off too.


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec, 1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

15Back to top Go down   oil on r/h side of pump Empty Re: oil on r/h side of pump Sat Jan 21, 2023 3:57 pm

92KK 84WW Olaf

avatar
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Dai wrote:Next to the r/h switch connector block. It's a small black single-way connector about an inch long. The connector block is unobtanium so I'd switch it for a 3.6mm 'Japanese' bullet connector.

Oh yeah - you'll have to take the HES cover off too.
And...HES cover has a paper gasket.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011157 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 54,800 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 42,640 miles.

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

16Back to top Go down   oil on r/h side of pump Empty Re: oil on r/h side of pump Sat Jan 21, 2023 7:25 pm

tinyspuds

tinyspuds
Life time member
Life time member
Thanks Olaf, continuity test on the under tank connector and switch end (disconnected) says the lead is sound, so hopefully won’t have to go in there again. Not entirely sure why it routes that way anyway so I would probably run a fly lead up the left side of the bike and render the oem redundant. Onwards tomorrow with the switch clean and test.


__________________________________________________
1985 BMW K100RT + Hedingham HUB and LL’s. VIN 0028106.
1986 K100RS in boxes. VIN 0141918.
1954 Royal Enfield 350 Bullet. Original.
2000 Hayabusa with Charnwood chair, Wasp forks and EZS wheels.
    

17Back to top Go down   oil on r/h side of pump Empty Re: oil on r/h side of pump Sat Jan 21, 2023 8:23 pm

Dai

Dai
Life time member
Life time member
92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:
And...HES cover has a paper gasket.
Oops. Forgot about that. I've replaced mine with gaskets cut from 2mm rubber sheet.


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec, 1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

18Back to top Go down   oil on r/h side of pump Empty Re: oil on r/h side of pump Tue Jan 24, 2023 10:19 am

tinyspuds

tinyspuds
Life time member
Life time member
Bought a new pressure switch just to get one variable out of the way.  Had to guess at a torque setting, and given that it came with a crush Ive gone for common sense and will recheck after the test ride. 

But so far, the light comes on with ignition and stay off after start all the way up to operating temp. The new switch has also got rid of the tickover speed light flicker so it obviously was overdue.

Thanks as ever for the guidance folks oil on r/h side of pump 112350


__________________________________________________
1985 BMW K100RT + Hedingham HUB and LL’s. VIN 0028106.
1986 K100RS in boxes. VIN 0141918.
1954 Royal Enfield 350 Bullet. Original.
2000 Hayabusa with Charnwood chair, Wasp forks and EZS wheels.
    

19Back to top Go down   oil on r/h side of pump Empty Re: oil on r/h side of pump Wed Jan 25, 2023 6:39 am

Dai

Dai
Life time member
Life time member
If you've got any brake cleaner lying around, soaking the old switch in it might recover it. OTOH it might not Very Happy

Ferries booked. Price is up 12% on last year... over £200 return now.


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec, 1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

20Back to top Go down   oil on r/h side of pump Empty Re: oil on r/h side of pump Wed Jan 25, 2023 7:03 am

tinyspuds

tinyspuds
Life time member
Life time member
crazy price. I don’t blame you for calling it a day.

My plan is to test as is, clean and retest as a learning thing (and maybe recover a decent switch) using the procedure Laitch posted earlier up the thread.

See you in a couple of weeks.

PS do you have a view on the torque? I’m about to go out a set it to 17nm (if i’m not already there).


__________________________________________________
1985 BMW K100RT + Hedingham HUB and LL’s. VIN 0028106.
1986 K100RS in boxes. VIN 0141918.
1954 Royal Enfield 350 Bullet. Original.
2000 Hayabusa with Charnwood chair, Wasp forks and EZS wheels.
    

21Back to top Go down   oil on r/h side of pump Empty Re: oil on r/h side of pump Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:19 am

Dai

Dai
Life time member
Life time member
Finger-tight plus 1/8 turn. Or if it still feels soft, another 1/8 turn.


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec, 1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

22Back to top Go down   oil on r/h side of pump Empty Re: oil on r/h side of pump Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:23 am

tinyspuds

tinyspuds
Life time member
Life time member
in which case I’ll defo quit while I’m ahead. Used a gentle ratchet yesterday (gulp).


__________________________________________________
1985 BMW K100RT + Hedingham HUB and LL’s. VIN 0028106.
1986 K100RS in boxes. VIN 0141918.
1954 Royal Enfield 350 Bullet. Original.
2000 Hayabusa with Charnwood chair, Wasp forks and EZS wheels.
    

tinyspuds

tinyspuds
Life time member
Life time member
45 mile run yesterday. Looks nice and dry underneath.  I have a 700 miler in a couple of weeks so hopefully that’s job done.
Thanks all. Stu


__________________________________________________
1985 BMW K100RT + Hedingham HUB and LL’s. VIN 0028106.
1986 K100RS in boxes. VIN 0141918.
1954 Royal Enfield 350 Bullet. Original.
2000 Hayabusa with Charnwood chair, Wasp forks and EZS wheels.
    

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