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1Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty FI relay not pulling in Wed Mar 15, 2023 4:51 am

Dai

Dai
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This one's got me completely beat...

- wiring is okay
- temp sensor is okay - tested by heat and replacement
- FICU and ICU are okay - tested by replacement with known good units
- turn the bike on, no reaction from the fuel pump. That has also been bench-tested and replaced, just in case
- bike starts easily every time and dies at 710rpm as expected
- FI relay itself is okay - bench tested and replaced with spanky new one

If the FI is earthed through pin 8 of the ICU, what in the ICU circuit controls it? Bert's help-all isn't helping, I'm afraid to say.


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 naked upgraded to K100LT spec after spending time as an RS and an RT
1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

2Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty FI relay Wed Mar 15, 2023 9:13 am

daveyson

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-bike starts easily every time...
-turn the bike on, no reaction from the fuel pump.

That's normal, I don't understand the problem.

If the relay doesn't pull in, I would check it's socket to find, is there power at 86 with the ignition on, and  earth at 85 with the start button pressed.

I'm guessing your going to say "yes" and I'm going to go "oh no, a can of worms has just been opened'


__________________________________________________
11/1985 bmw k100rt (late model)  Vin. 0090567
 ~120,000 km
    

3Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Re: FI relay not pulling in Wed Mar 15, 2023 9:38 am

Rick G

Rick G
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The earth comes from pin 7 on the ICU a yel/br wire that goes directly to pin 85 on the FI relay. Pin 8 is a yel/red wire that goes to pin 1 on the ECU. There is only one earth feed to ICU which is the brown wire on pin 1.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1999 K1100 LT with a Big Block 1200
    

4Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Re: FI relay not pulling in Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:56 am

Dai

Dai
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Typo, Rick. I meant to say pin 7, not pin 8. I'm going to make a flying socket for the FI relay tomorrow so I can at least easily measure voltages at the pins.

@Davyson: its been too long since I last fired up a K, but I seem to recall the fuel pump ran for 1.5 seconds at ignition on. Maybe I'm remembering it wrong.


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 naked upgraded to K100LT spec after spending time as an RS and an RT
1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

5Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Re: FI relay not pulling in Wed Mar 15, 2023 11:40 am

duck

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Dai wrote:Typo, Rick. I meant to say pin 7, not pin 8. I'm going to make a flying socket for the FI relay tomorrow so I can at least easily measure voltages at the pins.

@Davyson: its been too long since I last fired up a K, but I seem to recall the fuel pump ran for 1.5 seconds at ignition on. Maybe I'm remembering it wrong.

Only the 4V Ks prime the fuel system. K75/K100s don't fuel until then engine starts turning. On those if it's not starting you can hear a little whirring as the pump winds down after you let off the start button.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

6Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Re: FI relay not pulling in Wed Mar 15, 2023 4:28 pm

firstle

firstle
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side stand ? i know but had to ask

    

7Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Re: FI relay not pulling in Wed Mar 15, 2023 5:44 pm

Rick G

Rick G
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firstle wrote:side stand ? i know but had to ask
Not on a K100 2V


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1999 K1100 LT with a Big Block 1200
    

8Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Re: FI relay not pulling in Thu Mar 16, 2023 12:32 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

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Dai wrote:Typo, Rick. I meant to say pin 7, not pin 8. I'm going to make a flying socket for the FI relay tomorrow so I can at least easily measure voltages at the pins.

@Davyson: its been too long since I last fired up a K, but I seem to recall the fuel pump ran for 1.5 seconds at ignition on. Maybe I'm remembering it wrong.

Dai that is for 4v and K1100, not if it is 2v K. Pump only comes live from start button on 2v engines. Also, 2v does not have side stand switch.

But on all you need either green neutral or clutch lever pulled to start.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011157 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 58,200 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 49,200 miles.
1983 K100RS 0004449 Odette R100 colours 58,000 miles. Sprint fairing now 63,390 miles

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

9Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Re: FI relay not pulling in Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:03 pm

firstle

firstle
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the 2v model i have here does have a side stand switch (police) and did plug into the standard wiring , i have now taken it off because you cannot pull off with the side stand down on the 2v so why have a switch also , did they fit this for the police or europe models ? as far as i can see its pointless and just some thing else to go wrong

    

10Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Re: FI relay not pulling in Thu Mar 16, 2023 9:15 pm

92KK 84WW Olaf

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firstle wrote:the 2v model i have here does have a side stand switch (police) and did plug into the standard wiring , i have now taken it off because you cannot pull off with the side stand down on the 2v so why have a switch also , did they fit this for the police or europe models ? as far as i can see its pointless and just some thing else to go wrong

That is interesting/ My K100LT is ex UK police but it does not have a side stand switch but has the clutch lever side stand retractor. My 84 RT and 83RS had the self retracting side stand but I got rid of that 'feature' fast.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011157 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 58,200 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 49,200 miles.
1983 K100RS 0004449 Odette R100 colours 58,000 miles. Sprint fairing now 63,390 miles

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

11Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Re: FI relay not pulling in Thu Mar 16, 2023 11:05 pm

firstle

firstle
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clutch lever side stand retractor ........ mine still has this and i thought a good idea , why did you take yours off ?

    

12Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Re: FI relay not pulling in Fri Mar 17, 2023 12:25 am

Laitch

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firstle wrote:clutch lever side stand retractor ........ mine still has this and i thought a good idea , why did you take yours off ?
Dai's reference was to the sidestand self-retractor, BMW's application of artificial intelligence using springs instead of microchips. When the side stand is kicked down, the motorcycle's weight must be placed on it immediately. When the weight is removed, the springs retract the stand. Gravity took advantage of this situation innumerable times leading to a cadre of Brick owners skilled in using epoxy and fiberglass to repair cracked fairings.

    

13Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Re: FI relay not pulling in Fri Mar 17, 2023 1:12 am

firstle

firstle
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no i think the post above is about the clutch lever side stand set up (Olafe post)

    

14Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Re: FI relay not pulling in Fri Mar 17, 2023 1:21 am

Laitch

Laitch
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firstle wrote:no i think the post above is about the clutch lever side stand set up (Olafe post)
I mistook the source of the quote but the meaning is the same in Olaf's—death to the self-retractor.

    

15Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Re: FI relay not pulling in Fri Mar 17, 2023 3:44 am

firstle

firstle
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i have not seen the setup you talk of , the one i have seen which is on the one i have now (switch i have removed) works very well , pull the clutch and the side stand folds , very simple a bit like the velocette LE main/side stand arrangement a bike i have always thought shares a few similarities? but the LE being years ahead .

    

16Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Re: FI relay not pulling in Fri Mar 17, 2023 4:08 am

Laitch

Laitch
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firstle wrote:i have not seen the setup you talk of . . .
As the owner of W. Shakespeare's garage might have put it, There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.  Laughing

Here's some folklore and anecdotes about that gadget .
.

    

17Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Re: FI relay not pulling in Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:48 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

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I did not expect to open a can of worms but I will explain the difference.

Self Retracting Side Stand [Early K bikes, 2v]
Early Ks, 83, 84 had a side stand that needed the weight of the bike on it to stay down. If for some reason the weight of the bike was removed it immediately retracted. My introduction to this absolutely foul arrangement was when I went to buy my RT, from a member on the forum here. 

I wanted to get off the bike, my normal practice from the K100LT I was riding for 3 years was to flick down the sidestand and then lean the bike on to it, making sure it was fully extended. But it would not stay down so I could not get off the darn bike. 

Back to seller and I said this needs to be sorted or I can't buy the bike. At that stage I was happy with everything. Anyway investigation revealed a boomerang plate attached to the side stand spring that got caught by the bolt causing it to retract. Cut the bolt so the plate passes over it and all is good, sidestand stays down. I rode the bike home, a 2 hour ride on a sunny Friday evening.

Many years alter, buying my first RS, same feature but a hacksaw blade cured it in exactly the same way. Seller wished he had known that trick....


Side Stand Retractor later 2v Ks.
Now for my K100LT. It has a mechanism attached to the clutch cable that will retract the side stand. In theory it is fine but if you use be prepared to keep breaking clutch cables. But the resistance as you pull the clutch to start the bike does remind you to take up the side stand so as far as I am concerned its a great idea.

Side Stand Switch [16v and K1100 and some 2v police bikes.
This is located under the gear box and is actuated by the side stand being retracted.
 
This can go faulty so if you have a 16v K or a K1100 put the bike on centre stand and go in and have a look for this by using the side stand, you will see the metal tab.

Occasionally this goes faulty and you get a no start. As in the fuel pump will not prime. Most of the time a few wriggles will sort it. It is easy to make a by pass. It is worth finding where it connects to the loom and making the by pass and popping it in the duck tail for when the inevitable happens.

I have been told this is on some ex police bikes. My K100LT was ex police but did not have it. Otherwise, its only on 4v/K1/K1100

Feel free to point out any errors, but as it's Patrick's Day here all complaints will be directed to the Timbuctu office.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011157 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 58,200 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 49,200 miles.
1983 K100RS 0004449 Odette R100 colours 58,000 miles. Sprint fairing now 63,390 miles

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

18Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Re: FI relay not pulling in Fri Mar 17, 2023 3:07 pm

duck

duck
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I often use the retractor thingy on my 2V Ks and have never broken a clutch cable. (But I always have a spare clutch cable in the tail cowl just in case. Kind of the converse of Murphy's Law - anything that you carry a spare of will never break. Very Happy )


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

19Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Re: FI relay not pulling in Fri Mar 17, 2023 5:21 pm

firstle

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but as it's Patrick's Day here ................... and england V ireland saturday , its going to be a good weekend (england have no chance) 

    

20Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Re: FI relay not pulling in Sat Mar 18, 2023 7:31 am

Dai

Dai
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92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:I did not expect to open a can of worms
You can always go fishing. No feeding Guinness to the fishes mind.


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 naked upgraded to K100LT spec after spending time as an RS and an RT
1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

21Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Re: FI relay not pulling in Sun Mar 19, 2023 4:53 am

Dai

Dai
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So, not the FI relay after all. I'm beginning to think that I may actually have a fuel pressure problem. I disconnected the tank prior to hitting the start button in a sort-of half-hearted way of trying to reduce the fuel pressure prior to removing it and the bugger started up. Died at 710 rpm mind. So I reconnected the tank. No go. Disconnected the tank. Yay!! (sort-of). Rinse and repeat. There was a thread on here where someone had a similar sequence of events but my Google-fu is complete crap today. Can anyone help please?


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 naked upgraded to K100LT spec after spending time as an RS and an RT
1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

22Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Relay not pulling in Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:35 am

daveyson

daveyson
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This thread originally reminded me of a thread where the fuel relay was faulty, but the symptoms were different and I got mixed up about your symptoms. I think it was called; Troubleshooting a 1985 K100 that won't start/stay running, by TrailKlaus. 

 Hopefully it's just a weak fuel relay that can cope with small loads, but collapses under a heavy load, like when the pump comes on.

I'm even more confused about the side stand comments. I adjusted mine so that it remains fully extended when I kick it down. I kick it up on autopilot when I want it up, it's one of the few things I don't forget. If I forget then it will retract when l pull in the clutch, so it's a good safety feature. 

I've got early and late 2V models, I've looked under but can't see a bolt that could interfere with it, and can't see a difference between the two.


__________________________________________________
11/1985 bmw k100rt (late model)  Vin. 0090567
 ~120,000 km
    

23Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Re: FI relay not pulling in Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:54 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

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Daveyson, Does your early K side stand self retract? I have done a few of these but I am not the only one to have removed this 'feature'.



Last edited by 92KK 84WW Olaf on Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:30 am; edited 1 time in total


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011157 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 58,200 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 49,200 miles.
1983 K100RS 0004449 Odette R100 colours 58,000 miles. Sprint fairing now 63,390 miles

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

24Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Re: FI relay not pulling in Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:05 am

Dai

Dai
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If you're talking to me and not Daveyson, Olaf, the answer is I have neither sidestand nor clutch switch. The clutch switch is bypassed with a wire loop.


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 naked upgraded to K100LT spec after spending time as an RS and an RT
1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

25Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Re: FI relay not pulling in Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:31 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

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Dai wrote:If you're talking to me and not Daveyson, Olaf, the answer is I have neither sidestand nor clutch switch. The clutch switch is bypassed with a wire loop.
Thats probably a wise move, otherwise the risk exists of no start when, not if. the switch failes.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011157 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 58,200 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 49,200 miles.
1983 K100RS 0004449 Odette R100 colours 58,000 miles. Sprint fairing now 63,390 miles

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

26Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Re: FI relay not pulling in Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:46 pm

firstle

firstle
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can you put a temp earth on to the relay and back to the frame/battery , the relay maybe losing one side , can you hear/feel it drop out when the bike starts (difficult i know)  , it will be some thing simple its just finding it and old bmw wiring .  Crying or Very sad

Fuel pump relay trouble (k100-forum.com)

    

27Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty FI relay Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:35 pm

daveyson

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Yep, my early one also has the clutch lever side stand retract. One of them auto retracted, I thought because  it was adjusted in a way that it didn't fully extend.

To me this is an important safety feature, probably because years ago a mate was riding along while the side stand came down, he took a turn and came down. He spent months in hospital. 
 I know this seems unlikely but it is a thing that sometimes happens. 

I was riding my brick for a while before I read about this feature, and thought "my brick doesn't do that" I gave it a try and was pleasantly surprised that it did. I showed it to a few people who were also surprised by this nifty little feature.

I think it's a brilliant idea and can't think of a benefit for disconnecting it. I agree the safety switch type could be a nuisance if it fails, but not as big a nuisance as three months in hospital.


__________________________________________________
11/1985 bmw k100rt (late model)  Vin. 0090567
 ~120,000 km
    

28Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Re: FI relay not pulling in Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:48 pm

firstle

firstle
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side stand coming down or left down is a killer 100% as a few have found out , the switch has gone but i will keep the clutch cable arrangment i think , on harleys and some moto guzzi its that big you can see it so unlikely to forget it , also on some guzzis it operates the rear calliper untill folded away , a good idea from guzzi  Smile

    

29Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty FI relay Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:58 pm

daveyson

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Another thing that I don't understand is that it happened on a hardly, since it only extended 90 degrees (all the Japanese ones I've seen are more stable and extend further)  Why didn't the stand just kick back up? He kicked it up but it came down while riding. I've thought that might be why bricks have two springs, side by side.


__________________________________________________
11/1985 bmw k100rt (late model)  Vin. 0090567
 ~120,000 km
    

30Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Re: FI relay not pulling in Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:21 pm

firstle

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harley stands will not fold unless the bike is vertical , same as guzzi , so if he was taking a bend then would just dig in , nasty  Crying or Very sad

    

31Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Re: FI relay not pulling in Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:28 pm

robmack

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Dai wrote:So, not the FI relay after all. I'm beginning to think that I may actually have a fuel pressure problem. I disconnected the tank prior to hitting the start button in a sort-of half-hearted way of trying to reduce the fuel pressure prior to removing it and the bugger started up. Died at 710 rpm mind. So I reconnected the tank. No go. Disconnected the tank. Yay!! (sort-of). Rinse and repeat. There was a thread on here where someone had a similar sequence of events but my Google-fu is complete crap today. Can anyone help please?
Sounds like my problem:  Need help with 87 K75 - all elements for engine start present but won't start. What am I missing?


__________________________________________________
Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

32Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty FI relay Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:55 pm

daveyson

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Won't fold if not vertical, interesting, thanks. Still a bit confused, woe is me. Another hardly rider visiting parked on the almost almost horizontal road but just a wee bit down hill, came back out to see his bike took a nap. I thought if the stand came out further than 90 degrees, that wouldn't have happened.


__________________________________________________
11/1985 bmw k100rt (late model)  Vin. 0090567
 ~120,000 km
    

33Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Re: FI relay not pulling in Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:59 pm

Dai

Dai
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We used to call them "rat traps" on Guzzis (Spada and LeMans models). The solution was to file/grind the sidestand arm until it locked over-centre.


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 naked upgraded to K100LT spec after spending time as an RS and an RT
1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

34Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Re: FI relay not pulling in Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:04 pm

Dai

Dai
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So what was the problem? Very Happy


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 naked upgraded to K100LT spec after spending time as an RS and an RT
1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

35Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Re: FI relay not pulling in Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:28 pm

firstle

firstle
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daveyson wrote:Won't fold if not vertical, interesting, thanks. Still a bit confused, woe is me. Another hardly rider visiting parked on the almost almost horizontal road but just a wee bit down hill, came back out to see his bike took a nap. I thought if the stand came out further than 90 degrees, that wouldn't have happened.
dont know how that has happened , harley stands like early guzzi (1980s) had to comply with USA police requirements one of which is , once on the side stand even on a very steep incline the bike even if pushed forwards will not come off the side stand , guzzi went one further and there side stand put the rear brake on , latter guzzi side stands are rubbish and well known for letting the bike fall over , harleys are still very good and lock even at less than 90 degrees (my electra glide does 1996) not sure about the new ones

    

36Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Re: FI relay not pulling in Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:41 pm

robmack

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Dai wrote:So what was the problem? Very Happy
Sorry, no happy ending for my problem. Bike never did run and I gave up on it after spending hours and hours trying. I might take another look at it in the spring.


__________________________________________________
Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

37Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Re: FI relay not pulling in Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:15 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

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robmack wrote:
Dai wrote:So, not the FI relay after all. I'm beginning to think that I may actually have a fuel pressure problem. I disconnected the tank prior to hitting the start button in a sort-of half-hearted way of trying to reduce the fuel pressure prior to removing it and the bugger started up. Died at 710 rpm mind. So I reconnected the tank. No go. Disconnected the tank. Yay!! (sort-of). Rinse and repeat. There was a thread on here where someone had a similar sequence of events but my Google-fu is complete crap today. Can anyone help please?
Sounds like my problem:  Need help with 87 K75 - all elements for engine start present but won't start. What am I missing?
Died at 710 rpm.......

Thats the changeover from the pump getting signal from the button to getting signal from Hall Sensors [HES]. 

Now you have had the tank off and may have disturbed the big plug connector into the Ignition control Unit [ICU] and also the Fuel Injection control Unit [FICU] under the seat. Recheck these.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011157 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 58,200 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 49,200 miles.
1983 K100RS 0004449 Odette R100 colours 58,000 miles. Sprint fairing now 63,390 miles

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

38Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Re: FI relay not pulling in Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:48 am

Dai

Dai
Life time member
Life time member
robmack wrote:
Dai wrote:So what was the problem? Very Happy
Sorry, no happy ending for my problem. Bike never did run and I gave up on it after spending hours and hours trying.  I might take another look at it in the spring.
Sad


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 naked upgraded to K100LT spec after spending time as an RS and an RT
1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

39Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Re: FI relay not pulling in Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:50 am

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:

Side Stand Switch [16v and K1100 and some 2v police bikes.

Occasionally this goes faulty and you get a no start. As in the fuel pump will not prime. Most of the time a few wriggles will sort it.

One of mine was being was being a bit finicky so that I'd occasionally have to cycle the stand in order to get the switch to engage. Upon inspection I determined that little tang of the side stand gearing that pushes on the switch was sometimes not pushing far enough to engage the switch. I considered loosening the four center stand bolts and attempting to realign the switch mounting but that seemed like a lot of work so instead I put a short section of vacuum hose on the tang to make it fatter and it's worked well ever since.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

40Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Re: FI relay not pulling in Mon Mar 20, 2023 1:09 am

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
Life time member
firstle wrote: harley stands like early guzzi (1980s) had to comply with USA police requirements one of which is , once on the side stand even on a very steep incline the bike even if pushed forwards will not come off the side stand
Maybe the requirement you're citing was rescinded. The only US federal regulation I've found so far is this:
A stand shall fold rearward and upward if it contacts the ground when the motorcycle is moving forward.
It can be found here—S5.2.4.

A stand that holds even when the motorcycle is pushed forward would act as a fulcrum to flip the moto if it were down when the moto and rider were underway and bearing leftwards.

    

41Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Re: FI relay not pulling in Mon Mar 20, 2023 4:03 am

firstle

firstle
Life time member
Life time member
look at harley and guzzi side stands from the 1980s to understand how they work (not le manns) , the requirments for the guzzi side stand are in the moto guzzi history (a good read) harley already had one in place and guzzi wanted the police contract , they got part of it 2 or 3 states if i remember , if you are unfortuate enough to leave the stand down on a left hand bend chances are it will fetch you off as it lifts either the front or back wheel off the ground , nasty on a bend
Side Stand Kit Complete Chrome 1" Shorter for Harley - Davidson Softail 89 - 99 | eBay

    

42Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Re: FI relay not pulling in Mon Mar 20, 2023 6:23 am

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
firstle wrote:look at harley and guzzi side stands from the 1980s to understand how they work (not le manns) , the requirments for the guzzi side stand are in the moto guzzi history (a good read) harley already had one in place and guzzi wanted the police contract , they got part of it 2 or 3 states if i remember , if you are unfortuate enough to leave the stand down on a left hand bend chances are it will fetch you off as it lifts either the front or back wheel off the ground , nasty on a bend
Side Stand Kit Complete Chrome 1" Shorter for Harley - Davidson Softail 89 - 99 | eBay

I used to have the side stand switches shorted on my 4V Ks. (I now have them wired to only run in neutral with the side stand down.)  I've ridden off with the stand down more times than I care to admit. It's never taken me down and usually the side stand flips up at first contact with the pavement. That said, if your first attempted left is at a significant angle and speed then it would most likely not end well.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

43Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Re: FI relay not pulling in Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:17 am

Dai

Dai
Life time member
Life time member
92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:
Died at 710 rpm.......

Thats the changeover from the pump getting signal from the button to getting signal from Hall Sensors [HES]. 

Now you have had the tank off and may have disturbed the big plug connector into the Ignition control Unit [ICU] and also the Fuel Injection control Unit [FICU] under the seat. Recheck these.
Nope but... I think I'm going to throw the injection sub-loom and make a new one. Just in case FI relay not pulling in 44271


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 naked upgraded to K100LT spec after spending time as an RS and an RT
1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

44Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Re: FI relay not pulling in Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:23 am

Dai

Dai
Life time member
Life time member
Laitch wrote:A stand that holds even when the motorcycle is pushed forward would act as a fulcrum to flip the moto if it were down when the moto and rider were underway and bearing leftwards.
The long Guzzi California-type sidestands lock when you put the weight on them. When you take the weight off, the springs pull the sidestand out of the lock and allows it to be retracted, thus it meets that US reg. It'll still fetch you off if you forget to flip it up, mind. The foot is normally the first thing to scrape on the deck on a fast lefthander too, although I have also beaten down the silencers when I was still young and immortal. Great shower of sparks... usually enough to frighten the sh!t out of the car that's too close behind you.

[edit] Come to think of it, I still have that pair of silencers in the garage roof...


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 naked upgraded to K100LT spec after spending time as an RS and an RT
1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

45Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty FI relay Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:39 am

daveyson

daveyson
Life time member
Life time member
Those silencers should be removed from the garage roof, fastened to a shield, and mounted on the living room wall.


__________________________________________________
11/1985 bmw k100rt (late model)  Vin. 0090567
 ~120,000 km
    

46Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Re: FI relay not pulling in Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:38 pm

firstle

firstle
Life time member
Life time member
Dai wrote:
Laitch wrote:A stand that holds even when the motorcycle is pushed forward would act as a fulcrum to flip the moto if it were down when the moto and rider were underway and bearing leftwards.
The long Guzzi California-type sidestands lock when you put the weight on them. When you take the weight off, the springs pull the sidestand out of the lock and allows it to be retracted, thus it meets that US reg. It'll still fetch you off if you forget to flip it up, mind. The foot is normally the first thing to scrape on the deck on a fast lefthander too, although I have also beaten down the silencers when I was still young and immortal. Great shower of sparks... usually enough to frighten the sh!t out of the car that's too close behind you.

[edit] Come to think of it, I still have that pair of silencers in the garage roof...
the harley one does the same hits the road , also the primmary case , guzzi decided that even with the side stand locked the bike could still roll forwards or backwards (must have been a steep hill) so the side stand also put the rear brake on , good idea .

    

47Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Re: FI relay not pulling in Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:26 am

Dai

Dai
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Life time member
firstle wrote:
guzzi decided that even with the side stand locked the bike could still roll forwards or backwards (must have been a steep hill) so the side stand also put the rear brake on , good idea .
That was only the IdroConvert because of the slush bucket (hydraulic drive).


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 naked upgraded to K100LT spec after spending time as an RS and an RT
1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

48Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Re: FI relay not pulling in Tue Mar 21, 2023 8:21 am

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
My Hondas had this little rubber thingie that hung down about an inch below the pad on the end of the side stand. 

FI relay not pulling in Sidest10When the bike was parked on the stand, the rubber was deflected so the bike's weight was supported on the end of the side stand.  If you tried to ride off without raising the stand, the first time the bike was leaned a little to the left the rubber hit the ground and flipped the stand up. 

I cut it off of my bikes, and somehow never had a problem.


__________________________________________________
Present: 1991 K100RS "Moby Brick Too"
 
Past:
1994 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
1988 K100RS SE "Special Ed"
1994 K75S "Cheetos"
1992 K100RS "Moby Brick" R.I.P.
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

49Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty Re: FI relay not pulling in Tue Mar 21, 2023 8:24 am

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
I wonder how long we can keep ths thread going without saying anything about the fuel injection relay or the fuel pump.


__________________________________________________
Present: 1991 K100RS "Moby Brick Too"
 
Past:
1994 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
1988 K100RS SE "Special Ed"
1994 K75S "Cheetos"
1992 K100RS "Moby Brick" R.I.P.
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

50Back to top Go down   FI relay not pulling in Empty FI relay Tue Mar 21, 2023 8:38 am

daveyson

daveyson
Life time member
Life time member
22 posts. There was a thread similar to this where the problem was fixed by replacing the fuel injection relay.

Edit: But this is a very interesting side stand thread, I wouldn't have thought that topic would be. It's probably about here where someone might chip in with "you guys crack me up"



Last edited by daveyson on Tue Mar 21, 2023 8:53 am; edited 1 time in total


__________________________________________________
11/1985 bmw k100rt (late model)  Vin. 0090567
 ~120,000 km
    

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