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51Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:46 pm

Laitch


Life time member
Life time member
That's why I recommended riding Route 100. Cool

    

52Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:10 am

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
It was an excellent tip!


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS


Past:
1988 K100RS SE
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

53Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:58 am

Danish biker

Danish biker
Platinum member
Platinum member
Thanks for all your replies.

As fare as I know the part that came out the right side of the engine (and also blew a hole up the top), is a part of the “thing”, that holds the “piston” (might be called something else) that runs up and down in the cylinder.

I’ll be riding until the sprang clutch makes trouble again. Then I’ll do the following:

1. Do the WD40 job, this time using no flammable carb cleaner.

2. Let out 1 liter of oil and put in 1 liter kerosene or a engine cleaner solvent.

3. Run (not ride) the bike for 15 minutes.

4. Drain all oil and remove oil filter.

5. The consider the advice about truck diesel oil and maybe do this job.

6. Try to find yet another oil (look at recommendations in this post).

7. Wait for the sprang clutch to fail again Rolling Eyes


__________________________________________________
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
-Sir Winston Churchill
    

54Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Sprag Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:45 am

daveyson

daveyson
Life time member
Life time member
I googled plejlstang and got con rod, which matches your description. By the way, which number cylinder did it pop out of?

Your plan sounds good.

Good luck.


__________________________________________________
11/1985 bmw k100rt (late model)  Vin. 0090567
 ~120,000 km
    

55Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:07 am

Danish biker

Danish biker
Platinum member
Platinum member
daveyson wrote:I googled plejlstang and got con rod, which matches your description. By the way, which number cylinder did it pop out of?

Your plan sounds good.

Good luck.

Not sure haven’t taken the engine apart yet but looks like it came from the front part. It was shot out in the low end of the cover, between the front and second (from front) cover bolts.


__________________________________________________
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
-Sir Winston Churchill
    

56Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:32 am

Danish biker

Danish biker
Platinum member
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Apparently I can post pictures if I don’t chose the web version so here we go

Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 68abce10



Last edited by Danish biker on Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:35 am; edited 1 time in total

    

57Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:33 am

Danish biker

Danish biker
Platinum member
Platinum member
Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 F1110410


__________________________________________________
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
-Sir Winston Churchill
    

58Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:37 am

Danish biker

Danish biker
Platinum member
Platinum member
It took me a lot of research to get here, still don’t know how I could have managed with out the help from a great Irish guy and a great girl from Holland.

Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 7d85b310


__________________________________________________
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
-Sir Winston Churchill
    

59Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:31 am

88

88
Life time member
Life time member
You are always welcome to what help can be given from a distance my Viking friend. Looking at that damage again there is no way that damage is related to the cleaning fluids used. They would have evaporated/burned off long before you got up to that speed. 

The failure looks similar to that on my own K1100RS engine. I bet if you strip it you will find major sings of high speed failure on the crank shaft bearings (shells) causing the crank and piston to interlock and shattering the Con rod to come out the top of the block. Interestingly mine went on number one cyclinder too!

If you do have to replace the sprag clutch you know where to come for help. 

You split the gearbox and final drive as before the you can remove the intermediate flange to get at it. 

Easy Peary Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 8157


__________________________________________________
Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Ir-log1188....May contain nuts!Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Ir-log11

"The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page." - St. Augustine from 1600 years ago & still true!

K1100LT 1992 - AKA Big Red
K1100RS - 1995. AKA Rudolf Von Schmurf (in a million bits)
K1/RS - AKA Titan (unique hybrid by Andreas Esterhammer)
    

60Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:44 am

Danish biker

Danish biker
Platinum member
Platinum member
88 wrote:You are always welcome to what help can be given from a distance my Viking friend.

You split the gearbox and final drive as before the you can remove the intermediate flange to get at it. 

Easy Peary Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 8157

You are the wizard 👍👍

Without your guidens I would NEVER have accomplished. 

Not only did I find a “online” mechanic but also a friend.


__________________________________________________
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
-Sir Winston Churchill
    

61Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:07 am

Danish biker

Danish biker
Platinum member
Platinum member
And here it is:

Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 4ec33d10

    

62Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Sprag Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:15 am

daveyson

daveyson
Life time member
Life time member
Bonus, thanks for the pics.


__________________________________________________
11/1985 bmw k100rt (late model)  Vin. 0090567
 ~120,000 km
    

63Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:00 pm

92KK 84WW Olaf

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
Danish biker wrote:Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 F1110410

I thought the crank case vent into the airbox is through the Z pipe??

Long time since i have seen a photo like that.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 49,840 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 42,640 miles.

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

64Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:06 pm

Danish biker

Danish biker
Platinum member
Platinum member
92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:

I thought the crank case vent into the airbox is through the Z pipe??

Long time since i have seen a photo like that.

I’m glad I’ve lived a life with a challenging job, and along with this alway been a wild boy and therefor been in many unpleasant situations. It was a “blast” but luckily I kept my head cold and only thought about getting safe to the emergency lane. With this been said I could have been with out this experience 😜

    

65Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:25 am

tinyspuds

tinyspuds
Life time member
Life time member
I guess we can’t talk about bullet proof bottom ends anymore?


__________________________________________________
1985 BMW K100RT + Hedingham HUB and LL’s. VIN 0028106.
1986 K100RS in boxes. VIN 0141918.
1954 Royal Enfield 350 Bullet. Original.
2000 Hayabusa with Charnwood chair, Wasp forks and EZS wheels.
    

66Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:54 am

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
Life time member
When it comes to blasts, this event might just have been a case of what goes around comes aroundSmile


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 81,000 miles
Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Usa-lo10
    

67Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:10 pm

Danish biker

Danish biker
Platinum member
Platinum member
Laitch wrote:When it comes to blasts, this event might just have been a case of what goes around comes aroundSmile

The only bad side of this story is that I after many thoughts and great help from my Irish friend, I got kind of high and said to myself:

GREAT now I’m getting a engine, where the sprang clutch isn’t fuc... up.

You should have heard me and seen my face, when the sprang clutch failed to engage twice on my first ride.

    

68Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:20 pm

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
Life time member
Danish biker wrote:
Laitch wrote:You should have . . .  seen my face, when the sprang clutch failed to engage twice on my first ride.
Now that you know how to post photos, don't miss the next opportunity. Use a selfie stick, too. Smile


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 81,000 miles
Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Usa-lo10
    

69Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:21 pm

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
Life time member
Danish biker wrote:You should have . . .  seen my face, when the sprang clutch failed to engage twice on my first ride.
Now that you know how to post photos, don't miss the next opportunity. Use a selfie stick, too. Smile


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 81,000 miles
Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Usa-lo10
    

70Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:26 pm

Danish biker

Danish biker
Platinum member
Platinum member
Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 A56bd710


__________________________________________________
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
-Sir Winston Churchill
    

71Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Sprag clutch sticking Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:55 am

Kr4mo

Kr4mo
active member
active member
daveyson wrote:When you say the former owner claimed the sprag is OK, that made me think it's second hand. Even a new one that slips a lot will soon have more wear than normal. 

You have a few options now to consider. I'd consider the easy ones first, that don't require dismantling the engine.
I have heard of people using a product like Rislone to clean the system and end this problem.  I have used it in other vehicles to free up sticky lifters.  Add the amount recommended to your oil and run the bike for a couple hundred miles then change the oil.  You can push/bump start your bike if needed to start and run it for this.

    

72Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Still Sprag Clutch problems Sun May 23, 2021 7:02 am

Danish biker

Danish biker
Platinum member
Platinum member
I’m back Cool


Page up and down has been postet about the fact that some brick owners like me have a sprang clutch issue.


The clutch doesn’t engage, but spins and spins and spins. You can get it to engage by jerking the bike forward and especially back in 2. gear. Or you can do the WD40 job.


It is clear to me that if I do a oil change the problem will disappear for about 1.000 km.


So I’m researching the “choice of oil” but only from a “I got Sprang clutch problems” point of view.


I’ve been told I should stop listening to all the advice about semi- or full synthetic oil, and shift to a mineral oil like Motul 4T 3000 20W50. Someone on this forum had same problem as I’m facing, and shiftet to this oil and the problem went away. Obviously I’m going to try this oil in the near future, how ever I just changed oil (Spectro 4 SAE 20W50) and filter and cleaned the engine with a “solvent” running in the oil for 20 minutes before oil change so I’ll be good to go for the next 1.000 km or so.


My question to the experts is:


What oil (if any) did (does) BMW recommend for a 1992 K1100 RS. Is it a mineral, a semi synthetic or a full synthetic?


__________________________________________________
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
-Sir Winston Churchill
    

73Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Sun May 23, 2021 7:47 am

moriarti

moriarti
Life time member
Life time member
Hi D/B,With respect your question should be, What oil will safely lubricate the engine and at the same time cure Sprag Clutch problem. Answer,MINERAL DEISEL ENGINE OIL. WHY?? Because it contains more cleaning agents,Regular oil changes with this oil WILL cure the problem of Sticking Sprag Clutch. Very Happy


__________________________________________________
1984 k100 rs red/black VIN  0004449
    

74Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Sun May 23, 2021 9:03 am

Danish biker

Danish biker
Platinum member
Platinum member
moriarti wrote:Hi D/B,With respect your question should be, What oil will safely lubricate the engine and at the same time cure Sprag Clutch problem. Very Happy

With evne more respect 😇 I though that was obvious 😀

So why would someone use mineral Motul 4T 3000 20W50? As fare as I can read it is for a wet clutch???


If I’m actually going mineral shouldn’t I go Full Monty and find one for a dry clutch?


And obviously one that lubricates the whole engine etc.?


__________________________________________________
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
-Sir Winston Churchill
    

75Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Sun May 23, 2021 9:25 am

moriarti

moriarti
Life time member
Life time member
Too many choices on the market, scratch so i use what i know works that way problems are avoided  Very Happy Very Happy   lol!


__________________________________________________
1984 k100 rs red/black VIN  0004449
    

76Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Sun May 23, 2021 9:58 am

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
Life time member
Danish biker wrote:If I’m actually going mineral shouldn’t I go Full Monty and find one for a dry clutch?
And obviously one that lubricates the whole engine etc.?
All auto and truck engine oils lubricate the whole engine and work in vehicles with dry clutches. Take your helmet and some canteens to the base's garage to collect some from there.


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 81,000 miles
Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Usa-lo10
    

77Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Sun May 23, 2021 10:08 am

Rick G

Rick G
admin
admin
I used Shell HX5 10W 40 all year round and have recently changed to Penrite fully Synthetic at the same weight, both performed quite well and I have never had the sprag clutch problem on any of the Ks I owned or serviced. There are quite a few here who have tried the diesel engine oil with varying degrees of success, I have not used it mainly because the need has never arisen, however there is one here who berated me for being stupid and using but you will find out who he is if he wishes to chime in and tell us all just how smart he is. Very Happy


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 2004 K1200GT 1998 K1100 LT, 1986 K75 GS.
    

78Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Sun May 23, 2021 11:09 am

Danish biker

Danish biker
Platinum member
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moriarti wrote:Too many choices on the market, scratch so i use what i know works that way problems are avoided  Very Happy Very Happy   lol!

So the $100.000 question that remains to be answered is:

“What oil do you use?” Cool


__________________________________________________
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
-Sir Winston Churchill
    

79Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Sun May 23, 2021 11:12 am

Danish biker

Danish biker
Platinum member
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Laitch wrote:All auto and truck engine oils lubricate the whole engine and work in vehicles with dry clutches. Take your helmet and some canteens to the base's garage to collect some from there.
I hear you brother. How ever I’ve been through many oils, how ever not minerals.

I’m not sure I’m ready to actually use a Diesel engine oil, how ever a mineral oil for a bike is my next move. Just trying to get some good pointers.



Last edited by Danish biker on Sun May 23, 2021 12:13 pm; edited 1 time in total


__________________________________________________
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
-Sir Winston Churchill
    

80Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Sun May 23, 2021 11:14 am

Danish biker

Danish biker
Platinum member
Platinum member
RicK G wrote:and tell us all just how smart he is. Very Happy
 In any other subject that could sound like me 😎


__________________________________________________
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
-Sir Winston Churchill
    

81Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Sun May 23, 2021 11:19 am

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
Life time member
Danish biker wrote:I hear you brother. 
Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 447221


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 81,000 miles
Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Usa-lo10
    

82Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Sun May 23, 2021 7:26 pm

92KK 84WW Olaf

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
Danish biker wrote:I’m back Cool


Page up and down has been postet about the fact that some brick owners like me have a sprang clutch issue.


The clutch doesn’t engage, but spins and spins and spins. You can get it to engage by jerking the bike forward and especially back in 2. gear. Or you can do the WD40 job.


It is clear to me that if I do a oil change the problem will disappear for about 1.000 km.


So I’m researching the “choice of oil” but only from a “I got Sprang clutch problems” point of view.


I’ve been told I should stop listening to all the advice about semi- or full synthetic oil, and shift to a mineral oil like Motul 4T 3000 20W50. Someone on this forum had same problem as I’m facing, and shiftet to this oil and the problem went away. Obviously I’m going to try this oil in the near future, how ever I just changed oil (Spectro 4 SAE 20W50) and filter and cleaned the engine with a “solvent” running in the oil for 20 minutes before oil change so I’ll be good to go for the next 1.000 km or so.


My question to the experts is:


What oil (if any) did (does) BMW recommend for a 1992 K1100 RS. Is it a mineral, a semi synthetic or a full synthetic?


I am using that Motul oil and its great, problem disappeared and it meets the requirements for a K engine.



Last edited by Arlina on Mon May 24, 2021 4:29 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Separated the answer out of the quote.)


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 49,840 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 42,640 miles.

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

83Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Mon May 24, 2021 4:23 am

moriarti

moriarti
Life time member
Life time member
Danish biker wrote:
moriarti wrote:Too many choices on the market, scratch so i use what i know works that way problems are avoided  Very Happy Very Happy   lol!

So the $100.000 question that remains to be answered is:

“What oil do you use?” Cool
Comma XFMOTIG X FLOW 20/50   OR TripleQX 15/40  Smile


__________________________________________________
1984 k100 rs red/black VIN  0004449
    

84Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Mon May 24, 2021 6:02 am

Danish biker

Danish biker
Platinum member
Platinum member
92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:

I am using that Motul oil and its great, problem disappeared and it meets the requirements for a K engine.
Our mutual friend told me so.  Cool Cool He just didn’t say who Olaf was. Know I know I’m definitely going for the Motul👍👍👍


__________________________________________________
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
-Sir Winston Churchill
    

85Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Mon May 24, 2021 3:44 pm

Two Wheels Better

Two Wheels Better
Moderator
Moderator
I have merged these two threads because, well, they're the same thing; a continuation of information and easier to locate for those interested, not an entirely new thread. 
study


__________________________________________________

1970 R60/5, '77 R75/7-R100, '85 K100'87 K75C, '87 K100RS, '93 K11-K12 Big Block, '93 K1100RS, '95 R100-Mystic, '96 K1100RS, '98 K1200RS, '00 K1200RS, '02 K1200RS, '03 K1200GT, '04 R1150R'04 R1150RT, '05 K1200S, #1 '06 K1200R, #2 '06 K1200R, '07 K1200R, '09 K1300GT, '13 R1200RT-P & 2022 S1000XR

"Do you ever read any of the books you burn?" "That's against the law!" "Oh, of course."
~Ray Bradbury, science-fiction writer (22 August 1920 - 2012)
    

86Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Mon May 24, 2021 6:50 pm

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
I used Shell Rotella T6 15w40 for a couple years after having some sprag issues. Cleared the problem right up and it never came back.

K bikes have dry clutches so you can use any motor oil in them. No need to use special motorcycle oil that has special friction modifiers to prevent slippage in wet clutches.


__________________________________________________
Present:
1994 K75RT
1991 K100RS


Past:
1988 K100RS SE
1994 BMW K75S
1992 BMW K100RS
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

87Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Tue May 25, 2021 12:13 pm

Danish biker

Danish biker
Platinum member
Platinum member
Two Wheels Better wrote:I have merged these two threads because, well, they're the same thing; a continuation of information and easier to locate for those interested, not an entirely new thread. 
study
Thanks my bad


__________________________________________________
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
-Sir Winston Churchill
    

88Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Tue May 25, 2021 12:24 pm

Danish biker

Danish biker
Platinum member
Platinum member
Ok this is point for point since Saturday

1. I did put cleaningliquid in my engine Saturday. Left it running with a bit of gas like recommended, for 20 minutes. 

2. I drained the oil and took out the filter. 

3. New oil and filter in. The oil was the Chris Harris recommended full synthetic Spectro 4 SAE 20w50 (that is what I could get and I needed the bike today).

4. I started it 2-3 times to get the oil level correct after doing the above mentioned.

5. Went to work this morning (14 km ride). No problems. 

6. I went home from work to my local town (17 km) where I had to do stuff. No problems. 

7. After doing stuff I got on the bike to ride home. The Sprag clutch didn’t engage. Just spinning. 

8. Put the bike in 2. gear backed and made a drop out on the clutch and hit the starter. The bike started. 

So with a engine cleaning and new oil this shouldn’t happen?? I road 800 km with out the engine cleaning, after last oil change (still Spectro 4) with out problems and the weather is warmer now???

So either it’s not the oil or the oil is simply too thin/slippery/“or what ever”.

Give me your best shot???

PS I ordered 5 liter MPM high Zinc 20w50 (and a new filter) since this is what Olaf recommended. So when it arrives I’ll do the engine cleaner again. And new filter and then the zink oil. If the sprag fails again I know for sure it’s not the oil.

First poring away 3,5 l of expensive Spectro oil after only 800 km. Now 3,5 l more after only 31 km (plus 2 filters), and 2 x experience engine cleaner……..I know I don’t need to clean the engine again after only 31 km, but I’m not leaving anything untried 😥😥😥

PS it’s ok to ask about “doing stuff” 😂


__________________________________________________
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
-Sir Winston Churchill
    

89Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Tue May 25, 2021 12:42 pm

92KK 84WW Olaf

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
Leave the filter for a bit and just change the oil.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011171 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 49,840 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 42,640 miles.

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

90Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Tue May 25, 2021 1:08 pm

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
Life time member
Danish biker wrote:So with a engine cleaning and new oil this shouldn’t happen??
Most of the engine can be clean but the sprag clutch assembly can still be so clogged with residue—or defective in other ways—that cleaning products only result in the kind of unreliable performance that you are experiencing. If Olaf's recommendation doesn't result in reliable performance, you can keep trying one dosage after another or the application of other products. If none of them increase the reliability of the clutch, it should be removed, inspected, hand-cleaned, sprags and/or springs replaced where necessary then reinstalled, like in Alby's thread here about this problem.



Last edited by Laitch on Tue May 25, 2021 1:29 pm; edited 1 time in total


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1995 K75 81,000 miles
Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Usa-lo10
    

91Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Tue May 25, 2021 1:27 pm

moriarti

moriarti
Life time member
Life time member
To keep costs down and get best results give the engine a DIESEL FLUSH, If that  doesn't work Strip down required.


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1984 k100 rs red/black VIN  0004449
    

92Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Tue May 25, 2021 2:15 pm

Danish biker

Danish biker
Platinum member
Platinum member
moriarti wrote:To keep costs down and get best results give the engine a DIESEL FLUSH, If that  doesn't work Strip down required.

And DIESEL FLUSH being???

Some say: “Put in 3,5 l Diesel engine oil and ride for a while (what is a while?)!”

Some say: “No no only 1 l of Diesel engine oil, and leave your remaining 2,5 l oil and ride for a while (what is a while?)!”

I really need a no BS step by step recommendation since I’m so very confused.


__________________________________________________
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
-Sir Winston Churchill
    

93Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Tue May 25, 2021 2:46 pm

moriarti

moriarti
Life time member
Life time member
OK Don't Panic System A. Drain all engine oil refill to max with DIESEL FUEL. Remove spark plugs, spin engine 10/20 seconds, repeat a few times, over say 15/20 minutes remember you are trying to WASH the sprag clean. Now drain engine and mix engine oil with diesel fuel 50/50 fill to max replace plugs run engine up to 1500rpm until fan kicks in stop engine wait 20 min, repeat 3/4 times. Drain engine change filter fill with new oil .Should problem reoccur grab your spanners Very Happy 

No B/S just years of experience ,

PS You can use the old engine oil to make the mix that you have to keep cost down

PPS PM me if you need any more info


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1984 k100 rs red/black VIN  0004449
    

94Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Tue May 25, 2021 3:04 pm

Danish biker

Danish biker
Platinum member
Platinum member
moriarti wrote:OK Don't Panic System A. Drain all engine oil refill to max with DIESEL FUEL. Remove spark plugs, spin engine 10/20 seconds, repeat a few times, over say 15/20 minutes remember you are trying to WASH the sprag clean. Now drain engine and mix engine oil with diesel fuel 50/50 fill to max replace plugs run engine up to 1500rpm until fan kicks in stop engine wait 20 min, repeat 3/4 times. Drain engine change filter fill with new oil .Should problem reoccur grab your spanners Very Happy 

No B/S just years of experiance ,
Ok so NOT Diesel engine Oil but diesel fuel (what you buy at a gas station and makes your diesel car move/run)?

Do I need to take out the spark plugs or is it enough to take off the spark plug caps??? If “remove”, why? Compared to just taking off the caps?…….only asking because I need to know why I’m doing what I’m doing 😀

“Spin engine” 10/20 seconds”. Meaning press the starter button, but engine won’t start because the spark plugs (or caps) are off?

“Fill to max”? So over the red dot on the glass where you check oil level or “only” up to the red dot?


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You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
-Sir Winston Churchill
    

95Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Tue May 25, 2021 3:26 pm

moriarti

moriarti
Life time member
Life time member
Yes DIESEL FUEL from gas station, YES remove spark plugs, allows engine to spin faster and is less stressful on starter. Engine must NOT start/run with pure diesel in the oil system OK. YES use starter button to spin engine over. FILL to ABOVE red dot or measure 5ltr of mix. Very Happy


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1984 k100 rs red/black VIN  0004449
    

96Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Wed May 26, 2021 12:57 pm

Danish biker

Danish biker
Platinum member
Platinum member
Ok I drained the oil

Took out the spark plugs

Filled in a lot of diesel fuel

Hit the starter for 15 seconds 4 times during 30 minutes

Put in the spark plugs

Drained the diesel fuel

Mixed half engine oil and diesel fuel and filled the bike

Started the bike and left it running at about 1500 rpm until the fan started

Turned off the bike and waited for 20 minutes

Tried to start the bike but the sprag clutch didn’t engage WHY THE F… WOULD IT NOT?????

Put the bike in 3. gear on the center stand and jerked the wheel back. Hit the starter and it started.

Turned it off when the fan started.

Did it again and now I’m waiting for 4. and last run until fan starts then drain diesel fuel and oil

Take out filter and replace

Put in the “Zink car oil”.

But my hopes are not up in any way, since the sprag clutch didn’t engage after engine being soaked in diesel fuel and one start with half diesel fuel and engine oil

I’m a bit like: Crap
Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 D21b5210

    

97Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Wed May 26, 2021 1:58 pm

moriarti

moriarti
Life time member
Life time member
Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 61740 Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 61740 Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 61740 OK  you tried your best time to move on and dismantle the bike.

You will find all the help you need on the Forum, Good Luck  Smile


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1984 k100 rs red/black VIN  0004449
    

98Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Wed May 26, 2021 2:32 pm

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
Life time member
Danish biker wrote:I’m a bit like: Crap
You have a nice garage, anyway. What's the dog—a fluffy Pembroke Corgi? If that's you in the photo, what are you drinking after a few hours saturated with diesel and diesel oil?


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 81,000 miles
Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Usa-lo10
    

99Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Wed May 26, 2021 3:52 pm

Danish biker

Danish biker
Platinum member
Platinum member
Laitch wrote:
Danish biker wrote:I’m a bit like: Crap
You have a nice garage, anyway. What's the dog—a fluffy Pembroke Corgi? If that's you in the photo, what are you drinking after a few hours saturated with diesel and diesel oil?

The dog is a Papillon (butterfly), called that because the ears looks like butterfly wings. I also have a Labrador (formula 1).

The beer is a Grimbergen Double Ambrèe. And yes it’s me.

My “garage” which we actually call the “horticulture” is ok after I made a new floor (it was earlier loos bricks and dirt).


__________________________________________________
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
-Sir Winston Churchill
    

100Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Wed May 26, 2021 3:54 pm

Danish biker

Danish biker
Platinum member
Platinum member
moriarti wrote:Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 61740 Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 61740 Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 61740 OK  you tried your best time to move on and dismantle the bike.

You will find all the help you need on the Forum, Good Luck  Smile

Maybe go to Germany or Holland and buy a bike with less km on the clock and take the engine and put on my own frame.

Oh well I did the job and the new oil and filter is on, so I’ll see how it goes.

Or maybe take off the engine and take it to a BMW garage and have them replace the Sprag clutch.

But can I actually buy a new Sprag clutch?


__________________________________________________
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
-Sir Winston Churchill
    

101Back to top Go down   Starter or Sprag clutch failure  - Page 2 Empty Re: Starter or Sprag clutch failure Wed May 26, 2021 5:44 pm

Dai

Dai
Life time member
Life time member
No workshop will touch the bike because it's too old. Getting to the sprag clutch is a ballsache because you have to dismantle the bike but it's a relatively easy job. When you take the idler gear/sprag clutch assembly apart, do it in a clean bucket because the sprag has 12 small springs in it that will do their best to disappear out of sight. Sprag clutches are still easily available:

https://www.motorworks.co.uk/vlive/Shop/Parts.php?T=5&NU=10&M=40&Ct=CA&SbCt=BA_10_40_CA_20&spPage=2

My bet is that yours just needs a really good clean. I had a similar problem a few years back and I did get a lot of dirt out of the sprag; I've had no problems for the last 70,000 miles / 112,000 Kms.


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1983 K100 upgraded to K100RS spec, 1987 K100RT
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1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
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